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Are you low-class, middle-class, or upper-class?

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:06:57 AM

If you go to the site below here
Ny Times Social Class Test

and enter in your occupation, salary, net worth, and profession, it will show you what percentile you are in regards to class.

Do you ever worry about such things as social class? For example even if you make a million dollars year but if you work in a field such as "sales" or "advertising" you are NOT considered "high class" because your profession is not considered prestigious enough. And even if you make millions but if you are not educated to a certain level you also cannot be considered of high class. Perhaps you would be "upper class" economically, but not in the whole scheme of things.

Also, I think class also has a lot to do with where you vacation and what you do in your free time. For example, attending the theater or listening to a live orchestra is considered more high-class vs going to the movies.

Also, the older the money, the more elite and prestigious your class becomes. I read on Wikipedia in an article about class that there is an middle-upper class and then an upper-upper class and that in order to be considered upper-upper you needed OLD money. So even Bill Gates who is a millionaire would not be upper-upper but Paris Hilton would because her money is older.

How do you feel about class in America in general? Personally I think class is extremely important. I am very fascinated with the upper-uppers. They would be the society people like the offspring of the Hearst family or the Johnson&Johnson family for example. The upper-uppers are the ones that run the show, they send all their kids to elite boarding school where they hobnob with other elite children and build powerful social networks that they can use when they are older.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:14:52 AM
This is something interesting I found from a book review from amazon.com reviewing a book about social class:

Paul Fussell has concluded that overweight people are usually of lower class. Clothing and clothing color, also expresses class. A scarf is considered upper class, simply because it is useless.

A person wearing a white shirt and white pants can be considered to be upper class while a person wearing blue is thought to be middle class, and a person wearing purple is considered to be of lower class.

Too much jewelry can also lower a person's class. Flashy jewelry represents middle to lower class, while simple, elegant jewelry represents the upper class. An upper class watch is very simple but the more the watch does, the more middle to lower class the watch becomes. Also, simple accessories such as neck ties and hats can raise or lower one's class. A necktie, is upper class while a bow tie, is lower class.

Hats that have adjustable straps and brand names are lower class hats while simple, leather or white hats are upper class hats.

A house's surroundings, accessories, and architecture represent a person's class. A driveway that is longer and the harder to find is upper class. Next, the way in which the number of the house is presented, can raise or lower class. A simple display of the numbers are considered by Paul Fussell to be middle to lower class. However, a house with the numbers spelled out represents upper class.

A person's lawn also determines their class. The upper class will have trees in their lawn, the middle will have an immaculate lawn and the lower will have a discolored and unhealthy lawn. Also, the larger the windows the person has, the higher up they are on the class hierarchy.

Paul Fussell, also describes how a television represents one's class. The lower class might have one or two small televisions, the middle will have five televisions, and the upper will hide their televisions. Paul Fussell, also explained the drinking habits of the classes. The lower class will drink beer, the middle will consume bourbon and ginger, and the upper will drink white wine or other light alcoholic beverages. The upper class will have a cocktail hour in which they drink and talk prior to the dinner. The middle and lower classes will simply have their drinks during dinner.

The automobile also represents a person's class. The lower class drives dated Fords, Plymouths, Cheveys and Crystlers with bumper stickers stuck to the back of the car. The middle class drives new Fords, Plymouths, Cheveys, Crystlers, and S.U.V's. The upper class drives BMW's, Mercedes, and any other expensive car.

The only audible reference to class made by Paul Fussell was that of a person's speech. A person's vocabulary is a marker of their class. The lower class will use expressions such as "Golly!" or "Oh my Lord!" The middle class speaks very intelligently using complex words every now and again. The upper class speaks with complex words continuously integrating them into their speech. Also, little variances in a person's speech can express their class. The upper class tend to use less syllables.
When saying beautiful the upper use three syllables while the middle and lower use four.

The names given to clothes by people also can represent their class. The upper class call a tuxedo a "formal dinner jacket," the middle call a tuxedo a "tuxedo", and the lower call a tuxedo a "tux" In conclusion, Paul Fussell discusses many aspects of class. After reading Class, one can easily judge their own social standing as well as the class of others. Class, correctly depicts the signs, symbols, and customs of the American class system. Thus, by describing what class is, Paul Fussell provides the reader with a description of America.

---------------------------------------------------------

Also, I think you can distinguish the upper class from the commoners by how refined and cultured they are. This is another list I found on-line

Cultured and refined activities include among others:

Extensive travel, especically thoughout Europe

Attendance at or support of symphonies, dance (modern, ballet, etc.

Enjoying the arts and visiting museums

Being well-educated

Uncultured and unrefined lower-class activities include :

Going to the movies

Going clubbing

Travel by camping or by discounted air flight

Being an eager participant of popular culture

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 9:17:38 AM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 10:37:20 AM
I'm in a class by myself. I don't wear a scarf, a watch, a hat or any of that other shit. I've got my dick in one hand and a half eaten chicken wing in the other. And I just farted. I guess that makes me lower than low class. Oh well.........
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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 10:47:16 AM


RandomPrecision wrote:
I'm in a class by myself. I don't wear a scarf, a watch, a hat or any of that other shit. I've got my dick in one hand and a half eaten chicken wing in the other. And I just farted. I guess that makes me lower than low class. Oh well.........

Lol ok.

I'm disappointed but I'm probably middle-class. My job is not considered very prestigious ( online sales/advertising)although my income is a lot higher than the average. Income is in the upper percentile, profession is in the lower, not prestigious enough. Prestige is very important to me as well. I guess being a doctor is the most prestigious but I can't endure that much schooling. I wouldn't mind having a more prestigious title though.

However, I am EXTREMELY upwardly mobile, I guess you could say I would like to be middle-upper or higher-upper one day.
I am a social climber and very ambitious.

I know I can never be upper-upper because my money is not inherited. You can only be upper-upper if you inherited your wealth from your great-grandfather like the Hearst family for example.

If I ever become a multi-millionaire I guess I would move into in-between middle-upper and higher-upper. I don't think all millionaires are higher-upper though, if you are only worth a few mil and your job/education/mannerisms aren't up to par you will still only be middle-upper. Bill Gates is considered upper-upper.

I wonder if people even realize what class they are in. I think some people might even be in lower-middle and not even realize cause they make more than average, perhaps 60-70k a year, perhaps own their own home etc, but because of their blue collar type job and mannerisms/habits might be considered lower-middle.

Also, I think people serious underestimate the importance of class. it is VERY important. It affects the type of people you are able to associate with, your opportunities in life, etc

Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 10:56:09 AM

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Kimi Lixx
Senior Member

7877 Posts
6/01
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 10:57:46 AM
Occupation: 20th percentile*
Education: 69th percentile
Income: 56th percentile
Wealth: 85th percentile
AVERAGE: 57th percentile

* I kinda had to fudge it with the occupation choice. There was no pull down selection for sex worker. I went with entertainment services. I bet sex worker would be even lower.

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Dither
Persona non grata

I love America
4668 Posts
8/05
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 11:30:14 AM
Occupation: 70th percentile
Education: 97th percentile
Income: 78th percentile (as if)
Wealth: 25th percentile
AVERAGE: 67th percentile
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smg4ever
Senior Member

Shame on you!
2768 Posts
10/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 11:32:42 AM
Only American would think class is about how much money you earn.
Class has nothing to do with money, it's all about the breeding don't you know.

Nothing says romance like anal sex.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 11:38:04 AM


smg4ever wrote:
Only American would think class is about how much money you earn.
Class has nothing to do with money, it's all about the breeding don't you know.

Nothing says romance like anal sex.


It's the combination of breeding, money, occupation, assets.

I do realize there are some people in Europe with aristocratic titles, like princes and princesses from countries which have collapsed and so forth. I'm sure these people are still upper-uppers definitely. Most of these folks still have their fortunes too.

But like an archduke or baroness with no money though? I don't know.

I agree that breeding is important. Many people don't know where to properly place their forks and knives during dinner, etc

Breeding only helps if you come from an established family with a name/title/heritage. If your parents are just some average lower class people who gave you proper breeding, I don't think that works.

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 11:39:44 AM

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dumas
Senior Member

1802 Posts
8/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 12:14:41 PM
Occupation: 51th percentile Education: 75th percentile
Income: 69th percentile
Wealth: 55th percentile
AVERAGE: 62nd percentile

rocco

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Janitor
Administration, Defenestration

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
13562 Posts
11/99
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 01:57:50 PM


jackie200 wrote:
Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Do you really think this way? I went to prep school (on scholarship.) The upper-uppers were the least conscious of their class. The upper-upper parents were accepting, generous, and less pretentious than most "new money" parents. Few of the students cared at all about class issues.

As far as the Class Test nothing even close to my occupation is on there. Then again I don't really care what my class is. The only reason I even have money ambitions is to travel, buy more land, have a safe retirement net, and give to organizations I believe in.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 02:08:48 PM


Steph wrote:


jackie200 wrote:
Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Do you really think this way? I went to prep school (on scholarship.) The upper-uppers were the least conscious of their class. The upper-upper parents were accepting, generous, and less pretentious than most "new money" parents. Few of the students cared at all about class issues.

As far as the Class Test nothing even close to my occupation is on there. Then again I don't really care what my class is. The only reason I even have money ambitions is to travel, buy more land, have a safe retirement net, and give to organizations I believe in.


I don't really know to be honest, I don't know too many upper-uppers, I just automatically assumed they would be more "elitist". I have to admit that deep down inside I am rather intimidated and easily impressed by upper-uppers and therefore I just assumed they would be less open to more "common" people. It could have been my own fears and insecurities that were making me feel this way.
It's true that new-money people tend to be more flashy etc

I have always heard rumors (read on-line) about how this or that upper-upper person were uppity and unfriendly so that's where I got it from I think.

It could very well be that upper-uppers don't care about class at all. Perhaps I care too much because I'm not an upper-upper but a wannabe. I also know that it's a sign of low class to openly talk about class (which I like to do)so that doesn't say too much about me either.

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Janitor
Administration, Defenestration

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
13562 Posts
11/99
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 02:17:14 PM
All you need is confidence and good manners and you can hang with any class you want to.
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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 02:19:22 PM


Steph wrote:


jackie200 wrote:
Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Do you really think this way?


Well, I got this idea actually after reading about Mohammed Al-Fayed who is the owner of Harrod's (a department store in England) and self made from poverty to riches.

Wikipedia states that his net worth is between 800 million and 3 billion yet I read some reports on the BBC news site that he was having trouble getting accepted into high British society despite having donated millions to charity etc.

I think his daughter is getting accepted though, mainly because she is good looking. She seems to hang with all the British jet-set crowd and also the American jet-setters like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan etc


Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 2:22:16 PM

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smg4ever
Senior Member

Shame on you!
2768 Posts
10/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 03:04:21 PM


jackie200 wrote:


Steph wrote:


jackie200 wrote:
Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Do you really think this way?


Well, I got this idea actually after reading about Mohammed Al-Fayed who is the owner of Harrod's (a department store in England) and self made from poverty to riches.

Wikipedia states that his net worth is between 800 million and 3 billion yet I read some reports on the BBC news site that he was having trouble getting accepted into high British society despite having donated millions to charity etc.

I think his daughter is getting accepted though, mainly because she is good looking. She seems to hang with all the British jet-set crowd and also the American jet-setters like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan etc

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 2:22:16 PM



He'll never be accepted because of the whole Dodi / Diana thing. The Royals don't want him to be given a passport, so that's that. I personally don't think he should be given one, because he's a twat, a shit stirrer and he owns Fulham who are utter shite.

Nothing says romance like anal sex.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 03:07:23 PM


smg4ever wrote:


jackie200 wrote:


Steph wrote:


jackie200 wrote:
Someone who is lower class but worked their way up through education and wealth might still find it extremely hard to be accepted by the upper-uppers, even if they are extremely wealthy.

Do you really think this way?


Well, I got this idea actually after reading about Mohammed Al-Fayed who is the owner of Harrod's (a department store in England) and self made from poverty to riches.

Wikipedia states that his net worth is between 800 million and 3 billion yet I read some reports on the BBC news site that he was having trouble getting accepted into high British society despite having donated millions to charity etc.

I think his daughter is getting accepted though, mainly because she is good looking. She seems to hang with all the British jet-set crowd and also the American jet-setters like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan etc

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 2:22:16 PM



He'll never be accepted because of the whole Dodi / Diana thing. The Royals don't want him to be given a passport, so that's that. I personally don't think he should be given one, because he's a twat, a shit stirrer and he owns Fulham who are utter shite.

Nothing says romance like anal sex.


Is his daughter Camilla accepted and likable in England? It seems like she is. I always see her in papparazi pics with Paris etc

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 3:07:55 PM

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/6/2007 3:09:41 PM

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zorge
Member

890 Posts
8/06
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 04:39:32 PM
They claim I'm in the 53rd percentile. This is a really dumb way to look at the issue of class, though.

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Bornyo
Deactivated Member

3580 Posts
12/04
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 04:56:15 PM
Reading this discussion, I think people are confusing class with "classy" or "having class".

Maybe a more descriptive word is "caste". And it's a pretty safe bet people of the upper crust won't take this test or discuss their scores.

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Bob
Senior Member

Los Angeles
12358 Posts
3/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 05:01:54 PM
Who could have guessed what a dumb test the NY Times would have posted?

Those percentile ranks have nothing to do with "class", because most any professional of the middle-class can have a very high percentile score using their scale.

Only upper class is "upper class".

Just ask Jay Gatsby.

*
*
*

(Typos are so low class!)

Edited by - bob on 9/6/2007 5:05:15 PM

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RonK
Big Double Everything Fan

Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat
12277 Posts
9/01
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 05:03:01 PM
Based on breeding, I have zero class. No well known genes or royality in my family so no class. But I top the list in one dimension and that is not money :(.
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nietzsche
Impresario of the Inane

Putting Descartes before the Whores
31141 Posts
8/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 06:48:33 PM


As far as the Class Test nothing even close to my occupation is on there. Then again I don't really care what my class is. The only reason I even have money ambitions is to travel, buy more land, have a safe retirement net, and give to organizations I believe in.


I need to marry a woman like you, a woman I can sponge off.

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licker
Senior Member

Heretic, Iconoclast, Skeptic
5769 Posts
8/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 07:47:23 PM
My rankings are all dotted around the 80th percentile, but as far as I am concerned, I am working class.

The majority of my income comes from my own personal exertion, not from the work of others.

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morbidthoughts
Senior Member

Big cats scare me but...
4099 Posts
1/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 08:17:50 PM
Well, I guess I'm upper middle at the 79th percentile. My parents are at the 99th percentile. Going up two generations, I guess the grandfolks were middle class at 46%. But we're talking third world country middle class which is ghetto poor.

Every generation was educated but that didn't necessarily translate to intelligence. Every generation was really poor at one point or another.

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morbidthoughts
Senior Member

Big cats scare me but...
4099 Posts
1/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 08:18:06 PM
I need to marry rich.
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AlexPanzer
Deactivated User

9722 Posts
6/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:15:41 PM
Occupation: 48th percentile
Education: 75th percentile
Income: 38th percentile
Wealth: 34th percentile
AVERAGE: 48th percentile

Hey, I am only 21.

Does buttfucking makes someone lower or upper class?

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AlexPanzer
Deactivated User

9722 Posts
6/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:18:24 PM
My dream job is to be an outcall enema doctor to hot women.
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nietzsche
Impresario of the Inane

Putting Descartes before the Whores
31141 Posts
8/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:18:29 PM


AlexPanzer wrote:

Does buttfucking makes someone lower or upper class?


Depends on whether you receive or not.

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AlexPanzer
Deactivated User

9722 Posts
6/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:19:41 PM


nietzsche wrote:


AlexPanzer wrote:

Does buttfucking makes someone lower or upper class?


Depends on whether you receive or not.



Hehe, good one.
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Jacco
Your Choice

"liable to deprave and corrupt"
5082 Posts
5/04
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:39:47 PM
I have no class, all those jobs they list, but us poor pornographers are once more forgotten.

Jacco

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AlexPanzer
Deactivated User

9722 Posts
6/03
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 09:43:08 PM
I think that pissing in the sink is high class.
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realtip
Senior Member

5320 Posts
6/04
Posted - Sep 6 2007 : 10:32:19 PM
Occupation: 71st Percentile
Education: 91st Percentile
Income: 56th Percentile
Wealth: 29th Percentile
Average: 61st Percentile


Do you ever worry about such things as social class?

It's a major factor for widespread social inequity. But I don't think about it in regards to myself personally, or anyone that I know. I just put my info into the graphic because I was curious to see what it says. Not that I have any idea what any of these scores signify. I guess it just tells me the same thing I already knew- That I'm an educated and gainfully employed man who is still broke as hell.
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Flash
Golden Age Classic Moderator

West Coast, USA
8734 Posts
5/01
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 02:46:38 AM
Occupation: 70th
Education: 55th
Income: 38th
Wealth: 43rd
Average: 51st
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Flash
Golden Age Classic Moderator

West Coast, USA
8734 Posts
5/01
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 02:48:02 AM


AlexPanzer wrote:
Does buttfucking makes someone lower or upper class?

It depends:

Buttfucking on cumstained sheets, lower class

Buttfucking on a silk covered table while smoking a cigar, upper class

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 02:58:05 AM


Flash wrote:


Buttfucking on cumstained sheets, lower class

Buttfucking on a silk covered table while smoking a cigar, upper class


Only problem is that either way, your dick is in a shithole.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 03:38:37 AM


Flash wrote:


AlexPanzer wrote:
Does buttfucking makes someone lower or upper class?

It depends:

Buttfucking on cumstained sheets, lower class

Buttfucking on a silk covered table while smoking a cigar, upper class


I tend to agree. I think really upper-upper people are probably a lot more perverse than the common folk, especially behind closed doors.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 03:40:32 AM


RandomPrecision wrote:


Flash wrote:

Buttfucking on cumstained sheets, lower class

Buttfucking on a silk covered table while smoking a cigar, upper class


Only problem is that either way, your dick is in a shithole.


Yes, their dick may be in a shithole but they are probably doing it on high thread count premium cotton sheets imported from Egypt. Plus as Flash wrote, they might smoke a cigar during or after.

The lower class might chew tobacco after or smoke a cigarette.

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/7/2007 3:40:59 AM

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Loraine
Senior Member

4818 Posts
3/04
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 03:58:04 AM
I'm a Princess, we don't do tests. Unless they involve peas under the mattress. Peas Joey, not pees.
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Joey Starr
Moderator

Meat Sandy, my Tranny Secretary!
53646 Posts
10/00
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 04:03:51 AM


Loraine wrote:
Peas Joey, not pees.

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Joey Starr
Moderator

Meat Sandy, my Tranny Secretary!
53646 Posts
10/00
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 04:05:30 AM
I'm not in the US but I guess I would fit the "upper-middle-class" category.
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Joey Starr
Moderator

Meat Sandy, my Tranny Secretary!
53646 Posts
10/00
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 04:08:46 AM


Loraine wrote:
I'm a Princess, we don't do tests.

But are you a Jewish Princess Loraine?

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 04:35:25 AM


AlexPanzer wrote:
I think that pissing in the sink is high class.

I'm with ya, Alex. Someday, we'll make the world our playground and we'll change M&Ms to EnemaMs. Beer will be piss (Joey will be happy). People will sit around at large parties getting high off of sniffing panties and chatting about the good old days when fucking horses was legit.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 04:55:10 AM


jackie200 wrote:

Yes, their dick may be in a shithole but they are probably doing it on high thread count premium cotton sheets imported from Egypt.


My sheets are high thread count but I'm pretty sure they're not Egyptian. I could, however, perch myself upon a stool positioned on the center of my bed whilst Middle Eastern meditation music plays in the background.


Plus as Flash wrote, they might smoke a cigar during or after.

It only counts if it's an expensive one. Those cheap Dominicans and Hondurans smoke just as good but you can't tell the uppers that. They insist that If it isn't $100 a pop, it must not be any good.


The lower class might chew tobacco after or smoke a cigarette.

Oh, not recently. Unpaid medical bills aren't popular with wealthy people who have to pay higher taxes for the care of the people who are dying because of the products they sold them.

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 06:10:27 AM


RandomPrecision wrote:

It only counts if it's an expensive one. Those cheap Dominicans and Hondurans smoke just as good but you can't tell the uppers that. They insist that If it isn't $100 a pop, it must not be any good.


I don't really know much about cigars, I don't smoke. I think some uppers do prefer cigars $100 a pop, and some might not. It's hard to say.

I think a lot of people get offended by the topic of class because they like to believe that America is the land of opportunity where supposedly "anyone" can make it.

Is it possible that the people who exist that there are no such things as class divisions are the ones who are actually
lower or middle class but not not conscious of that somehow?


Edited by - jackie200 on 9/7/2007 6:12:46 AM

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 06:23:11 AM
Something else I found :

Upper: $100,000-$200,000+; 4+ years of college education; cultural activities may include attendance at or support of symphonies, dance (modern, ballet, etc.); hardbound books and more expensive magazines, more costly restaurants, dinner parties, nightclubs, and/or the personal computers and the Internet. More likely to be a middle-age couple with grown children.

Middle: $30,000 - $100,000; 1+ yrs. of post-high school ed.; cultural activities may include movies, videos, clubs, dancing, paperback books, inexpensive restaurants, travel by camping or by discounted air flight, popular magazines, churches or nightclubs, and/or personal computers. More likely to be a couple with children at home or a single in a well paid profession.

Lower: $8000 - $30,000; 2-4 years of high school education; cultural activities may include TV and videos, fast-food restaurants, churches or bars, relatives, street scenes, parks, and/or free or low-cost computer services. (Note: This category includes poor families, most of whom are eligible for a minimum of eight thousand dollars or more per year of financial, health, and food support.) More likely to be a single parent with two or more children, an elderly adult living alone, or a member of an economically disenfranchised group such as a minority, disabled person, or recent immigrant.

--------------------

I don't think that the income requirements are accurate though, making 100k does NOT make you upper class by ANY means. I think the activities may be true though.

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conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
11427 Posts
10/03
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 06:41:16 AM
I fail to see how a hardcover book is any more classy then a paper back. Unless you're reading a lame abridged and condensed version of a book.

And things like discounted flights. Every rich person I have known is rich because they are good at managing and saving their money.

Income doesn't have very much to do with class.

Too bad the test doesn't involve things like manners or usage of language. Or even literacy levels.

Is it classier to be able to hire a cook or to be able to cook great meals yourself?

Wanting to go to a movie over an orchestra performance has nothing at all to do with class and everything to do with personal tastes.

Even if I were getting paid a million dollars a day you would never see me at nightclubs or modern dance performances.

As for the test, my job doesn't fit in (I work part time, get an hourly wage and a free apartment out of it). Neither does my education, they don't account for someone who has gone to university and a trade school. And wealth, I don't have much in the way of personal wealth but my family does, so where do I stand?

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 06:47:23 AM


conquistador wrote:
I fail to see how a hardcover book is any more classy then a paper back. Unless you're reading a lame abridged and condensed version of a book.

And things like discounted flights. Every rich person I have known is rich because they are good at managing and saving their money.

Income doesn't have very much to do with class.

Too bad the test doesn't involve things like manners or usage of language. Or even literacy levels.

Is it classier to be able to hire a cook or to be able to cook great meals yourself?

Wanting to go to a movie over an orchestra performance has nothing at all to do with class and everything to do with personal tastes.

Even if I were getting paid a million dollars a day you would never see me at nightclubs or modern dance performances.

As for the test, my job doesn't fit in (I work part time, get an hourly wage and a free apartment out of it). Neither does my education, they don't account for someone who has gone to university and a trade school. And wealth, I don't have much in the way of personal wealth but my family does, so where do I stand?


I think the hardcover book thing was from a long time ago, perhaps many years ago hardcover books were more expensive...

The test doesn't include things like manners or use of language but the article I posted on the first page by Professor Fussel does. He states :

"A person's vocabulary is a marker of their class. The lower class will use expressions such as "Golly!" or "Oh my Lord!" The middle class speaks very intelligently using complex words every now and again. The upper class speaks with complex words continuously integrating them into their speech. Also, little variances in a person's speech can express their class. The upper class tend to use less syllables. When saying beautiful the upper use three syllables while the middle and lower use four."

As for movies or orchestra performances, yes, those are personal preferences, but I think as a group, the upper-uppers are more likely to prefer things such as orchestra performances vs lower class people. Of course there will be exceptions. Of course there will be upper crust people who hate classical music, but I'm talking as a group they are more likely to gravitate towards certain activities.

Edited by - jackie200 on 9/7/2007 6:48:02 AM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 07:25:13 AM


jackie200 wrote:

Is it possible that the people who exist that there are no such things as class divisions are the ones who are actually
lower or middle class but not not conscious of that somehow?


Oh, there are definitely class divisions. It's just that they're ultimately meaningless.

In a hundred years, virtually everyone who's alive now will be stone dead. The only differences between the classes then will be that the upper classes will be buried in a fancy cemetery with lots of marble and the lower in a more sensible fashion. All classes tend to believe that they'll, somehow, live forever but rotting flesh reports that that is most likely not the case.

Anyway, there's classy and then there's ridiculous. Some amount of culture is good. Nothing wrong with a good education, nice place to live, nice things, etc. But when people think they're better than everyone else just because they have money, a better job, a nicer house, whatever, they're kidding themselves. All of life is luck. Everything depends on one sperm being just a little faster than all the rest. But what is really insulting is when they think they were preordained to be something special when one or more of any number of random factors could have made them the elephant man living in a homeless shelter. Anyone's luck can change in a heartbeat. A fraction of a heartbeat. The change could even be good. But it could also be very, very bad.

Look at the difference between George HW Bush and GWB. They look kinda alike. Father and son. I would argue that HW has ten times the class and 50 times the brains his son has. All the money in the world (and even having been president) couldn't make Dubya anything but a (barely) talking gorilla.


Edited by - randomprecision on 9/7/2007 7:28:11 AM

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 08:24:38 AM


RandomPrecision wrote:


jackie200 wrote:

Is it possible that the people who exist that there are no such things as class divisions are the ones who are actually
lower or middle class but not not conscious of that somehow?


Oh, there are definitely class divisions. It's just that they're ultimately meaningless.

In a hundred years, virtually everyone who's alive now will be stone dead. The only differences between the classes then will be that the upper classes will be buried in a fancy cemetery with lots of marble and the lower in a more sensible fashion. All classes tend to believe that they'll, somehow, live forever but rotting flesh reports that that is most likely not the case.

Anyway, there's classy and then there's ridiculous. Some amount of culture is good. Nothing wrong with a good education, nice place to live, nice things, etc. But when people think they're better than everyone else just because they have money, a better job, a nicer house, whatever, they're kidding themselves. All of life is luck. Everything depends on one sperm being just a little faster than all the rest. But what is really insulting is when they think they were preordained to be something special when one or more of any number of random factors could have made them the elephant man living in a homeless shelter. Anyone's luck can change in a heartbeat. A fraction of a heartbeat. The change could even be good. But it could also be very, very bad.

Look at the difference between George HW Bush and GWB. They look kinda alike. Father and son. I would argue that HW has ten times the class and 50 times the brains his son has. All the money in the world (and even having been president) couldn't make Dubya anything but a (barely) talking gorilla.

Edited by - randomprecision on 9/7/2007 7:28:11 AM


I agree that eventually everyone dies, but what happens while we are still alive still makes a difference and class is a component of that. If class is ultimately meaningless because we all die someday, doesn't that imply that everything is meaningless? Something is meaningful only if you make it so personally.

I am not upper-class, I am only middle-class unfortunately, only a simple commoner, so there is no way that I can feel that I'm preordained as anything special yet since I am only one of the common people, I'm probably considered upper in income according to the income definitions I pasted above, but I don't feel those are accurate at all, and even if my income was in the tens of millions I would still lack the family heritage in order to be considered high class.

I am not well educated at all but I don't feel that education is a prerequisite in order to be considered high class though. A lot of kids of wealthy people aren't well educated at all but they are still considered high-class by default because of their family, such as Paris Hilton. A lot of people may hate her, but I still consider her upper-class due to her family name and old money.

As for Dubya, he's upper-class by default because of his family and occupation obviously. It's possible to be a barely able to talk gorilla but still upper I guess. I mean, he's not COMPLETELY illiterate, I'm sure he knows some big words and which fork to use at dinner etc.


Edited by - jackie200 on 9/7/2007 8:29:54 AM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 09:08:01 AM


jackie200 wrote:

I agree that eventually everyone dies,


That's good to know.


but what happens while we are still alive still makes a difference

Barely. There might be a few less trees after we die and a little more trash taking up space. Most of the universe is oddly unaffected by our existence. Unless something really bizarre and unknown is going on. Unless the universe or nothing else that we perceive to be real actually exists. But then, nothing would exist. Oh well. Too much Dr. Pepper this morning, I think.


and class is a component of that. If class is ultimately meaningless because we all die someday, doesn't that imply that everything is meaningless?

Absolutely. And there you have the main reason why there are more suicides than murders in many places. Life really is pointless. You can only keep yourself amused with the material for so long before you realize that it's all just stuff and really is rather useless. Once you've acquired it and figured it out and played with it for a while, it'll probably soon be laying in some obscure corner collecting dust before too long.

The people who live after we die will look upon us virtually as barbarians. The only people who will mean anything at all to them are the ones who make things happen now. And even then, the meaning will be very limited. People only care about what you can do for them or how you can improve their existence. They care not for you. Everything is about the self. Anything that means anything at all only does so temporarily. If you take the entire history of the universe and think about your life in that context, you can snap your fingers and that's what you are.


Something is meaningful only if you make it so personally.

Ahhh...yes. Knowledge. We collect knowledge the same way we collect stuff. But it isn't physical and for many of us, it's presence is even more fleeting. I, for example, have a neurological disorder that seems to cause me to lose vast quantities of information. Is it still in there? I don't know. It goes in, bounces around for a while and disappears. What did I do last week? What day is today? How old am I? I can track all of this stuff down if I really want to. That's assuming I don't forget what I was doing by the time I get halfway through the task.

Anyway, we collect all sorts of random information that's only marginally useful. And even then, for only a limited amount of time. Some of it is only useful if you can figure out a novel way of using it. And then, some of it is only useful if you can endure decades of mind numbing uniformity and routine.


As for Dubya, he's upper-class by default because of his family and occupation obviously. It's possible to be a barely able to talk gorilla but still upper I guess. I mean, he's not COMPLETELY illiterate, I'm sure he knows some big words and which fork to use at dinner etc.

Of course he isn't completely illiterate. At some point, he had to read the speeches they wrote for him so he could get elected. The only fork I imagine he knows how to use is a pitchfork.

Anyway, as to the topic of class in America, it makes me laugh. That's meaningful......momentarily.

Edited by - randomprecision on 9/7/2007 9:11:20 AM

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jackie200
Member

252 Posts
4/06
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 11:07:05 AM

After reading your last post RandomPrecision I am convinced that you must be an upper-class person. You writing is very philosophical and reflective, kind of in the way of how I would imagine an upper-upper person would write.

Seriously though, I agree with what you wrote. And yes, life is pointless. Many times I have wondered what the point of life was. I even typed in all-knowing google "what is the point of life" and didn't come across anything really profound at all. It's a bit eerie to know that there is no point to life.

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Drew Black
Administrator

9523 Posts
9/99
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 11:43:19 AM


jackie200 wrote:
.... She seems to hang with all the British jet-set crowd and also the American jet-setters like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan etc



Being tabloid fodder doesn't equal having class. Paris Hilton is one of the lowest-class rich people to ever walk the face of the planet. Filthy, spoiled whore is more like it.
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Drew Black
Administrator

9523 Posts
9/99
Posted - Sep 7 2007 : 11:57:49 AM
BTW, I fall into the top fifth in everything but education. (education is upper-middle) I find it all quite ironic.

I fall into the top 5th primarily because I didn't spend 4-5 years in college. I was hard working and lucky enough at a relatively young age to work my way up to a job that put me in the top 5th in the occupation category by age 24. Couldn't have done that had I wasted time in college. The income and wealth categories wouldn't be up that high either if I didn't have 3-4 more income producing years compared with other people my age.

I'm by no means "upper class". If you've ever met me that's incredibly obvious.

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