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All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 106 > Illegal to ship porn?
AuthorPost
CApornFAN
Member

46 Posts
4/07
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 1:44AM
Is it illegal to ship porn? I've seen stories that people are getting arrested for shipping porn? Is that right? 'cause it's not.

Here's a couple stories I'm talking about:
Feds Charge Indiana Man with Obscenity Violations
Witness Says Max Didn't Mail 'Obscene Videos'


Edited by - CApornFAN on Jun 2 2008

SeX Z Pictures
Tommy Molina

254 Posts
11/07
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 9:51AM
Just do not ship it in the regular postal mail and you will be fine. Use UPS or Fedex.
Harry Joystick
Senior Member

1248 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 12:09PM
I don't know enough about this case but I wonder if it's illegal to ship any porn to Martinsburg. I have sold over 600 used DVDs using through Adult DVD Marketplace using USPS. If I used UPS or Fed Ex, the cost of shipping would have been more than what the DVDs were worth. I think Adult DVD Marketplace keeps track of where it is illegal to ship porn, or at least they used to.
wilbur poster
Member

520 Posts
11/07
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 2:31PM
HarryJoystick-

Martinsburg,WV?That's where I live...and I've received porn from numerous sources over the years,including used DVD's from Adult DVD Empire sellers!I've received virtually everything through the USPS...

Harry Joystick
Senior Member

1248 Posts
8/02
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 3:08PM


wilbur poster wrote:
HarryJoystick-

Martinsburg,WV?That's where I live...and I've received porn from numerous sources over the years,including used DVD's from Adult DVD Empire sellers!I've received virtually everything through the USPS...



Are videos with fisting scenes legal there? Otherwise it's hard to tell what laws the seller broke. I'm not a legal scholar but the charge of, "transporting obscene matters through the U.S. mail and transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution by means of interstate commerce" seems kind of vague to me.

ninja1
Senior Member

3153 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 3:12PM
It sounds like the Feds targeted the Indiana guy's business because he was selling a fisting video. And they chose Martinsville to place their order from. I'm sure there are dozens of other cities in other states where this setup could have just as easily been orchestrated from. I wonder what he did to attract Feds' attention in the first place.
killbillvol69
Moderator

^Lucy Pinder
14475 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 4:21PM
Man all these obscenity laws being different in different places really seems sketchy to me... It seems like the feds leave it vague enough so they can bust anyone for anything whenever they feel like busting someone. (I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it really does feel that way at times.)

On the other hand, I can't see it being very likely that DC lawmakers will actually sit down and write out specific laws that say things like "If the video shows four fingers inserted into the anus, it's legal. If four fingers and the thumb up to the first knuckle are inserted into the anus, still okay. But if four fingers and the thumb past the first knuckle are inserted into the anus, then the seller of the video is breaking obscenity law #xxxxx-xxx".

[edit: 3 typos!]

Edited by - killbillvol69 on 6/7/2008 1:55:31 PM

IWAdult
Senior Member

2747 Posts
5/06
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 4:45PM
Like Sex Z said, always ship UPS or FED Ex.
But if you have to ship through postal do it first class or better. Because if you ship anything media mail they have all rights to open it and most likely will.
ninja1
Senior Member

3153 Posts
1/08
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 5:11PM
If it is as simple as shipping by UPS/Fedex and avoiding USPS, why do so many vendors have lists of banned states or banned cites to which they will not sell videos? These vendors could just use a different shipper and avoid all the hassle of keeping track of zip codes, in addition to boosting sales. I think if a seller were the subject of a sting operation, it would be pretty easy to find a reason for a package to magically "pop open" somewhere in transit, regardless of whether it is media mail or first class or priority or insured or super extra private top secret certified secure or whatever class is used.
Zoid
Senior Member

Boobies and Anal
3659 Posts
5/04
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 6:27PM


ninja1 wrote:
I wonder what he did to attract Feds' attention in the first place.

He did time for the very same thing in 2002. Here's more recent article:
http://www.avn.com/law/articles/30455.html


backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
4276 Posts
10/07
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 7:30PM
This type of thing just makes me want to vomit. If the government requests the video aren't they culpable themselves? Classic entrapment. I really don't know what we can do about this type of thing anymore. I don't think the dems are any better than the repubs on this. I suggest a massive mail campaign to your elected officials complaining about the subversion of the U.S. constitution and condemning censorship in all it's forms. This country is going down the tubes fast unless we the people do something about it. And I don't think Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and unfortunately John McCain are even close to being the solution. Censorship is the first big step towards dictatorship.
backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
4276 Posts
10/07
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 8:03PM
By the way what about the hundreds if not thousand of porn videos including illegal Traci Lords stuff sold on ebay daily ? The government has absolutely lost it's fucking mind.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Jun 2 2008 : 8:18PM


Harry Joystick wrote:


"transporting obscene matters through the U.S. mail and transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution by means of interstate commerce" seems kind of vague to me.


It's deliberately vague, IMO.

CApornFAN
Member

46 Posts
4/07
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 3:04AM


if you ship anything media mail they have all rights to open it and most likely will.


That's fucked up! Everything? That seems illegal.
BlackSix
Senior Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
11504 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 3:09AM


RandomPrecision wrote:


Harry Joystick wrote:

"transporting obscene matters through the U.S. mail and transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution by means of interstate commerce" seems kind of vague to me.


It's deliberately vague, IMO.


The law is pretty extensive actually, going all the way back to Comstock Act. It is the definition of 'obscenity' that is vague.

nunsploitation
Member

40 Posts
2/06
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 8:30AM

Man all these obscenity laws being different in different places really seems sketchy to me...

Black Six is correct, the law is the same. Obscenity anywhere is illegal. What is confusing you (and everyone) is that "obscenity" is defined by community standards. What's considered obscene in one community may be perfectly fine in another.


If the government requests the video aren't they culpable themselves? Classic entrapment.

Yet, this is exactly what happened to a comic book store in Texas a few years ago. An undercover cop walked into the store, asked the clerk for two adult titles (Urotsukidoji was one of them, I think the other was Omaha, the Cat Dancer, but I'm not sure), showed ID proving he was of age when asked, and then promptly arrested the store owner on obscenity charges!

Even though the adult books were behind the counter, and patrons had to ask for them and show ID this was the argument that won the case for the prosecution: "“I don’t care what type of evidence or what type of testimony is out there, use your rationality, use your common sense. Comic books, traditionally what we think of, are for kids."

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4953

Webmaster, http://www.nunsploitation.net

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 9:45AM


nunsploitation wrote:


Black Six is correct, the law is the same. Obscenity anywhere is illegal. What is confusing you (and everyone) is that "obscenity" is defined by community standards. What's considered obscene in one community may be perfectly fine in another.


Or in other words, "obscenity" is in the eye of the beholder. It's completely ridiculous to have a concept like obscenity intertwined with the law. The law is complex and confusing enough when it only deals with established facts. I just want to know why someone can't be prosecuted for writing an obscene law?

backdoorman
Senior Member

Shake for me girl... I wanna be your backdoorman !
4276 Posts
10/07
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 11:14AM
^ + 1 x a billion to the nth degree
BlackSix
Senior Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
11504 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 10:07PM


RandomPrecision wrote:


nunsploitation wrote:

Black Six is correct, the law is the same. Obscenity anywhere is illegal. What is confusing you (and everyone) is that "obscenity" is defined by community standards. What's considered obscene in one community may be perfectly fine in another.


Or in other words, "obscenity" is in the eye of the beholder. It's completely ridiculous to have a concept like obscenity intertwined with the law. The law is complex and confusing enough when it only deals with established facts. I just want to know why someone can't be prosecuted for writing an obscene law?


Yeah but the ship has pretty much sailed on that one, obscenity has been the law of the land for a very long time now. Don't expect the like of the current Supreme Court to reverse any of the it either, if anything they'll reinforce it.

Bill
Moderator

13083 Posts
6/00
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 11:36PM


SeX Z Pictures wrote:
Just do not ship it in the regular postal mail and you will be fine. Use UPS or Fedex.

That's not true. Max's lawyers were arguing that he didn't know that Jaded would ship via USPS because Max was specifically charged with interstate transportation of obscene materials using the U.S. postal service. There is a similar law involving the interstate transportation of obscene materials using a common carrier. Since the government hadn't charged Max with that crime, his defense argued that, given that Max had shipped to Jaded via UPS, he assumed that they would do the same when shipping to customers.



From AVN's article on Max's case (Day 5):
Finally, regarding the charges of interstate transportation of obscene materials using the U.S. postal service (18 U.S.C. §1461), which included the charge of aiding and abetting such transportation, Sirkin argued that not only did Hardcore and MWE have nothing to do with mailing the charged DVDs to Tampa, by U.S. mail or any other method, but they also did not have the "guilty knowledge" that such mailings would be taking place, nor to which location the videos would be sent. In fact, Sirkin said, since MWE had sent the disks it sold to Jaded Video in Irvine, Calif. by UPS, it had every reason to believe that Jaded Video would fulfill its orders to customers by UPS as well - and that was significant because sending obscene material by "common carrier" is a different charge than 18 U.S.C. §1461, and neither defendant had been charged with that crime.
Bill
Moderator

13083 Posts
6/00
Posted - Jun 7 2008 : 11:43PM


IWAdult wrote:
Because if you ship anything media mail they have all rights to open it and most likely will.

That's not true. Media Mail receives the same protections as any other mail class does. The only reason that media mail would be opened would be if the Post Office had reason to believe that the shipper was sending something that didn't qualify as media, in order to receive the postage discount.

In every obscenity case that the government has made, using shipped merchandise, a government employee has ordered the discs or tapes personally. They're not randomly checking people's mail to see if packages just happen to contain a copy of a DVD that they're hoping to prosecute for obscenity.

bigdawg
Member

148 Posts
3/08
Posted - Jun 8 2008 : 12:01AM
I bet most of you don't know that buying a porn movie on the PPV when you are at a hotel is illegal as it falls under the federal laws of transporting obscene materials across state lines.

The government is too busy becoming big brother and not fixing what's wrong with this country.

Shouldn't you use your stimulous check to stimulate yourself?

Grilled Jeez
Member

188 Posts
5/08
Posted - Jun 8 2008 : 12:27AM


SeX Z Pictures wrote:
Use UPS or Fedex.

Yeah, ask Max Hardcore how that worked out.

vanessadelriolover
Member

314 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jan 30 2011 : 10:58PM


SeX Z Pictures wrote:
Just do not ship it in the regular postal mail and you will be fine. Use UPS or Fedex.

hey SeX Z Pix i have a question for you, i'm contemplating selling a few items via Ebay avoiding the zip codes and states such as Utah used to prosecute sellers of material deemed "obscene per community standards" and wanted to know if you still recommend shipping via UPS or FedEx? I've sold occasionally on ADM since 2005 and I believe they take care of sellers by not sponsoring questionable content (i.e. they've dropped almost all Max Hardcore's stuff & many JM products), but Ebay obviously doesn't do this & I want to be cautious. i also have Manga Erotica & i don't want to end up like the gentleman in Texas from 2000.

What do you or any of the others in the forum recommend? Haven't listed yet but i'm just contacting reputable sellers I've purchased from and others before i do.

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Jan 31 2011 : 11:35AM
^ I have absolutely no experience in shipping adult content but if you want my advice here it is. If you're asking for information, that probably means you don't know much more about it than I do and that's not good. I would recommend that if you want to be on the safe side, you stick to just buying stuff and leave selling and shipping it to people who know the laws and have the resources to defend themselves if something comes up.

Just ask yourself one thing. Is what you'll get out of it worth the risk?

vanessadelriolover
Member

314 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jan 31 2011 : 11:34PM
RandomP thanks for the feedback, you raise a solid point at the end and i agree that big time sellers are more able to have legal assistance at the ready. I've shipped via Adultdvdmarketplace for 6 years going on 7 with no incident, but they run interference for sellers. The risk you rightly bring to light comes with going to Ebay; they don't run interference for their sellers. That's what i'm most concerned about! Thanks for your input, sometimes it really is best to play it safe!




RandomPrecision wrote:
^ I have absolutely no experience in shipping adult content but if you want my advice here it is. If you're asking for information, that probably means you don't know much more about it than I do and that's not good. I would recommend that if you want to be on the safe side, you stick to just buying stuff and leave selling and shipping it to people who know the laws and have the resources to defend themselves if something comes up.

Just ask yourself one thing. Is what you'll get out of it worth the risk?


Herr Doktor
Member

113 Posts
7/02
Posted - Feb 1 2011 : 12:30AM


vanessadelriolover wrote:
RandomP thanks for the feedback, you raise a solid point at the end and i agree that big time sellers are more able to have legal assistance at the ready. I've shipped via Adultdvdmarketplace for 6 years going on 7 with no incident, but they run interference for sellers. The risk you rightly bring to light comes with going to Ebay; they don't run interference for their sellers. That's what i'm most concerned about! Thanks for your input, sometimes it really is best to play it safe!



RandomPrecision wrote:
^ I have absolutely no experience in shipping adult content but if you want my advice here it is. If you're asking for information, that probably means you don't know much more about it than I do and that's not good. I would recommend that if you want to be on the safe side, you stick to just buying stuff and leave selling and shipping it to people who know the laws and have the resources to defend themselves if something comes up.

Just ask yourself one thing. Is what you'll get out of it worth the risk?




You cannot be serious. Just how do you think Adultdvdmarketplace will protect you if you ship a dvd to a federal agent who is trying to obtain an obscenity conviction? If you believe that Adultdvdarketplace will "run interference" for you with the FBI then you are extremely naive.

cubesnake
Senior Member

3441 Posts
10/02
Posted - Feb 1 2011 : 7:07AM
i guess you guys are talking shippments from one US state to another. When we go global there are of course a number of restrictions for a non business person to ship certain things. Years ago i had my experiences with customs too. The sick part is however --- if i would have ordered the VHS tapes with no cover and no description at all they most likely would have gone thrue. But no --- stupid me wanted to own the original ones with the cover and the printing on the tape. I just hope those custom bastards had a good jerkoff session with my tapes. The seized them i got a court warning which was later dismissed ... i never ordered anything from a US company ever. I don´t want to make customs happy and i have to pay for it

Nowadyas with the digital media their are other ways ...

Cube

Edited by - cubesnake on 2/1/2011 7:08:35 AM

torris
Senior Member

Deep within Mila's anus
2023 Posts
1/00
Posted - Feb 1 2011 : 1:03PM


IWAdult wrote:
Like Sex Z said, always ship UPS or FED Ex.
But if you have to ship through postal do it first class or better. Because if you ship anything media mail they have all rights to open it and most likely will.

1. there are hundreds of people in jail b/c they thought it was safe to ship drugs through UPS and Fed Ex. They can and sometimes do inspect suspicious packages
2. If the postal inspectors opened every Media Mail package, it would take a month not a week to get packages. They don't want to lose anymore market share to the private companies as is
3. Postal inspecotrs can and do open suspcious packages of any sort. First class, medial mail, priority etc.

alphadachs
Senior Member

2159 Posts
3/10
Posted - Feb 3 2011 : 1:10AM


vanessadelriolover wrote:
(snip) i'm contemplating selling a few items via Ebay avoiding the zip codes and states such as Utah used to prosecute sellers of material deemed "obscene per community standards" and wanted to know if you still recommend shipping via UPS or FedEx?

This raises an issue I have never grasped: the whole "community standards" thing. I am not only not a lawyer, I have only the faintest grasp of legal matters, so am quite amazingly clueless. Anyway:

The principle seems to be that one can be busted for making or selling (also owning??) legal, 1st-Amendment-protected material basically because your neighbors disapprove? Who determines the standards of a particular community? No one takes a vote, so is it set by a few vocal saber rattlers? A politically ambitious prosecutor? The 12 members of one jury? Furthermore, how is a prospective producer/distributor of porn supposed to know before being arrested what the standards of a diverse community will be? It's not like there is a Pornphobic Registry or anything, right? It all seems so vague and unpredictable.

Can anyone out there give a good explanation of how this all works?

vanessadelriolover
Member

314 Posts
1/09
Posted - Feb 3 2011 : 6:09AM


torris wrote:


1. there are hundreds of people in jail b/c they thought it was safe to ship drugs through UPS and Fed Ex. They can and sometimes do inspect suspicious packages
2. If the postal inspectors opened every Media Mail package, it would take a month not a week to get packages. They don't want to lose anymore market share to the private companies as is
3. Postal inspecotrs can and do open suspcious packages of any sort. First class, medial mail, priority etc.



torris is it true that hundred's of people are in jail for selling adult stuff? i've not heard of this, i've heard of producers/directors being targeted and in the process of doing so a big-time seller gets pegged. but 100s of people selling straight, mainstream (within the world of porn) stuff being put in jail? i find that hard to believe especially with the hundreds of sellers on ADM that have operated without incident. i've been called naive in this thread but i get the feeling there is a good deal of paranoia about this topic.

fisting, beastiality, kiddie porn etc. i can see someone selling this being legitimately concerned but Vivid, Sensational DVD, most Evil Angel stuff from small time seller to small time consumer? i find it hard to believe federal agents have that much time to spend

L-Kabong
New Member

4 Posts
2/12
Posted - Oct 23 2012 : 2:23PM
Sooo how can a person find out if it's illegal or not to send/receive Porn in the mail in their zip area?

I ask because I just recently saw a seller on e-bay list my zip code as an area he can't ship to because it's illegal according to him.

Now I's been a member on e-bay for some 10 yrs and bought lots of porn stuff, not just VHS and Dvd's.
Also in my area there are adult stores that sell/ rent Dvd's and "novelty items". We also have go-go bars where the occasional porn star preforms and then sells her dvd's.

I've have spent the last couple hours trying to find any such law on the books so to speak but it's much harder to find out that information than it is finding some lost video of Traci Lords.

So if anyone can send me a link or list one here that I can use to find out if there is such a law or statue in my specific area I would be very grateful.

ninja1
Senior Member

3153 Posts
1/08
Posted - Oct 23 2012 : 3:32PM
^I've seen sellers ban certain zip codes or states because of the performers; for example they shoot Virginia girls and therefore will not sell the video within Virginia. My zip code was on a no-ship list at JBvideo.com, but I emailed them and told them about the porn video store in my town, etc. and they shipped to me.

Edited by - ninja1 on 10/23/2012 3:34:39 PM

zambi
Senior Member

1473 Posts
3/10
Posted - Oct 23 2012 : 11:44PM

For those who don't understand the obscenity laws read this from AdultBizLaw:

Porn 101: Fetish Content Whats Legal ?

BTW Kink.com has found the solution to defeating the ultra-conservative censors
using obscenity laws to stop porn distributors. They simply don't ship porn
DVDs in the U.S. at all. Instead you subscribe to their site and download
video files yourself. They produce movies with fisting, pissing, and so on
and haven't been touched yet by the feds.




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