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Valentine
Member


flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - May 27 2012 : 05:00:10 AM
OK. So, I pretty much thought women in porn, say 99% did it for the money, and not because they really enjoyed it. But I've also always thought faking it...well that we are collectively clever enough paying consumers to figure out who is faking and who is enjoying (I still cannot figure out Tory Lane though)...and it sure seems like a hell of a lot of pornstars are enjoying - cutting down my 99% theory with a chainsaw.

Some of the things I read in this thread linked below made me laugh out loud, not because I did not believe them, but because of ADT44's vivid descriptions. The thread was also a game changer for me because I thought actually you Valentine have it wrong and most pornstars enjoy their work. Most pornstars claim to enjoy it. It also made me think there has to be a significant number, and therefore percentage, of pornstars who are clinically not right in the head...suffer from a disease / disorder of the mind and that mental illness plays a significant role in the world of porn more so than other industries (like say accounting) and that mental illness could explain some of the more bizarre / deviant things on film - the things that go way beyond Vanilla porn.

This stuff could range from having been abused as a child and the usual 'so tell me about your mother/father' Freudian clichés (not making light of them) and the impact that may have on self-esteem and consequently entry into the industry and enjoying sex on film (sounds right wing I know but I am a liberal), to wanting to cook and eat feces upon performing sexual acts or scat porn in general and some of the things that got Max Hardcore in trouble.

I'm not a shrink but surely there are levels and lines here...and to say "it's all relative" is too simplistic. For example, drinking a pint of cum seems clearly deviant and abnormal but taking 3 cumshots in the mouth after doing 3 guys seems normal, even tame (though I'm guessing the vast majority of women on Earth have never done 3 guys at a time). I would like to hear from others and if you are a clinician (psychologist / psychiatrist) please hit me with your best shot - fire away.

related but not the same

Edited by - Valentine on May 27 2012

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pat362
Senior Member

4537 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 27 2012 : 02:35:08 PM
^My suggestion is that you should stop thinking about the reasons why girls do porn and stop to think whether they are faking it or really are into the scene. It's porn, it's a fantasy and if you dig too deep then you may get the truth and it may not be what you wanted to know.

It's the same way for mainstream performers. I much prefer old time movie actors and actresses because you didn't hear about all the fucked up things they did and you could enjoy their onscreen performances a lot more. Today we know too many things about our Hollywood stars and it's sometimes imposasible to watch aTV show or mivie without thinking the person is a total douchebag and the show or movie suffers for it.

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more_cowbell
Member

172 Posts
2/12
Posted - May 27 2012 : 06:16:52 PM
I would love to see a book that gathered studies on hundreds of female porn stars and compiled an insightful psychological profile.

But most women do nasty shit in the bedroom. Are they crazy?

No, they're doing what comes naturally.

The only difference is that porn stars give fewer fucks about doing it in the public eye.

Edited by - more_cowbell on 5/27/2012 6:17:17 PM

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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - May 27 2012 : 10:59:16 PM
^^^^^^^^

To: more_cowbell

All good points, I think the most extreme end of the spectrum - Gokkun - and the stuff ADT44 noted in the thread I linked goes beyond what we do in the bedroom - but again I don't know enough about the DSM IV and such to say what sickness of the mind such things could indicate.

p.s. My GF does not do anal.


Edited by - Valentine on 5/27/2012 11:02:19 PM

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ninja1
Senior Member

3084 Posts
1/08
Posted - May 27 2012 : 11:25:57 PM
You shouldn't read too much into what porngirls are doing. They are doing it for money and, more importantly, they are usually following someone else's direction/instruction. When you show numerous unrelated girls who are doing gangbangs for free and each is personally recruiting all the guys herself, then I might begin to consider your psycho-analytical theory.

Edited by - ninja1 on 5/27/2012 11:27:46 PM

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2ferme
Senior Member

1640 Posts
11/09
Posted - May 28 2012 : 02:50:48 PM


pat362 wrote:
^My suggestion is that you should stop thinking about the reasons why girls do porn and stop to think whether they are faking it or really are into the scene. It's porn, it's a fantasy and if you dig too deep then you may get the truth and it may not be what you wanted to know.

It's the same way for mainstream performers. I much prefer old time movie actors and actresses because you didn't hear about all the fucked up things they did and you could enjoy their onscreen performances a lot more. Today we know too many things about our Hollywood stars and it's sometimes imposasible to watch aTV show or mivie without thinking the person is a total douchebag and the show or movie suffers for it.


I can separate someones behavior, and public opinions from their performances.
That last paragraph sounds like something one of the right wing goofies would say.
I like classic film because it was made before society became brain dead, people actually could think for themselves much more often then they do today. As a result you have better stories and better performances.
Today's film is awful!!!

Interesting to dig deeper on why people do this. I wonder how many really are into it, and how many would get out of it quickly if possible. Most women aren't in this very long anyway.
Don't know. I have seen interviews with some of the women on the videos they performed in and you can tell something lies underneath that isn't associated with I am having fun doing this.
Overall it has to be where the hell else can you make this kind of money this quickly. And if you are into it all the better.

Edited by - 2ferme on 5/28/2012 2:53:57 PM

Edited by - 2ferme on 5/28/2012 2:56:53 PM

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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - May 29 2012 : 01:28:59 PM
pat362 wrote:



Interesting to dig deeper on why people do this. I wonder how many really are into it, and how many would get out of it quickly if possible. Most women aren't in this very long anyway.
Don't know. I have seen interviews with some of the women on the videos they performed in and you can tell something lies underneath that isn't associated with I am having fun doing this.
Overall it has to be where the hell else can you make this kind of money this quickly. And if you are into it all the better.


Agreed. But I wonder how many of us would get out of our jobs just as quickly as possible if, for example, we won the lotto?

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Bigscotsman27
Member

489 Posts
9/09
Posted - May 29 2012 : 02:39:03 PM
Does this question apply to male pornstars also?
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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - May 29 2012 : 02:44:13 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bigscotsman27 -

Yes, it does.

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geralt
Member

423 Posts
7/11
Posted - May 30 2012 : 12:59:14 PM


....suffer from a disease / disorder of the mind and that mental illness plays a significant role in the world of porn more so than other industries (like say accounting) and that mental illness could explain some of the more bizarre / deviant things on film - the things that go way beyond Vanilla porn...

This stuff could range from having been abused as a child and the usual 'so tell me about your mother/father' Freudian clichés (not making light of them) and the impact that may have on self-esteem and consequently entry into the industry and enjoying sex on film (sounds right wing I know but I am a liberal), to wanting to cook and eat feces upon performing sexual acts or scat porn in general and some of the things that got Max Hardcore in trouble.


Lots of girls who are in porn or in the sex business in general has suffered sexual abuse and suffers from posttraumatic disorder and substance abuse (to cope with their anxiety and so on)
That's the weirdest part of ptsd that many get obsessed with re-enactment of putting themselves in similar abusive situations, different types of self harm.

Don't want to point fingers or offend anyone but for example Kelly Wells did obviously suffered severe sexual abuse, hitting herself. Always going on about how she was a worthless whore, only good for taking cocks in her ass.
Making baby sounds when she was fucked (like a child who is being molested) In tear me a new she sucks a buttplug like a pacifier and said things like "Daddy I've been a bad look a grown man is punishing my ass, yeah they did it for you" I liked Kelly Wells as a performer but her I think that being in porn isn't a good idea. The guys don't even take notice. After that I felt uncomfortable watching the rest of the scene.

However there are a lot of strong women in porn who actually seem to enjoy their work and seem totally in control with what they are doing like; Dana Dearmond, Katja Kassin, Sandra Romain, Nicky Hunter, Bobbi Star. (well atleast enjoy the money and don't take abuse) For working in porn I think that girls need to be mentally strong, don't do drugs and make sure that they get treated profesionally by their co-stars and producers staying away from the likes of max hardcore.

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pat362
Senior Member

4537 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 30 2012 : 02:49:36 PM


Agreed. But I wonder how many of us would get out of our jobs just as quickly as possible if, for example, we won the lotto?

Only a fool chooses to stay at work after he wins a large sum at the lotery. A 34 years old man won 50 millions dollars a couple of weeks ago in Canada and he claimed that he would keep on working. Well let me tell you that unless he gives almost all of it then he will have a very miserable life at work. Here is a guy that is a multi-millionaire stealing a job from someone who nneds it because he's deluding himself that his life will remain the same as before he won that money. We all work to make money so that we can pay our bills and buy stuff that we may or may not need. The fact that we love our job isn't all that important because most of us would quit a job we love to get one that pays twice as much and that we only like.

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Hardware
Senior Member

Purple passion
26459 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 30 2012 : 03:23:00 PM


pat362 wrote:
Here is a guy that is a multi-millionaire stealing a job from someone who nneds (sic) it because he's deluding himself that his life will remain the same as before he won that money.

You might want to consider where you'll end up if you go down that 'stealing a job' road. How about people doing work that serves no other purpose than to give them a job? While you might think that's great, it isn't free, and somebody has to pay for it. You might be able to get consumers to pay the addition expense if you have a monopoly on making whatever it is you make. Otherwise, your competition is going to eat your lunch and you won't be providing jobs to anybody at all in short order.

We all work to make money so that we can pay our bills and buy stuff that we may or may not need.

My cousin is single and he's frugal - he could have retired years ago. He hasn't done so because he's a true teacher, and teachers love to teach. He's not alone in loving his job, even if there are plenty of people who hate theirs.

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a_guy_from_India
New Member

5 Posts
5/12
Posted - May 30 2012 : 07:09:04 PM
This is probably not going to answer your question, but there is some evidence to suggest that women working in the pornography industry do have higher rates of mental health problems, including depression.

Here's a link to a study published by researchers from the Mt Sinai School of Medicine. It was published in the Journal "Psychiatric Services".

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Gore Gore Girl
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

www.goregoregirl.com
7722 Posts
1/09
Posted - May 30 2012 : 07:35:43 PM
^ Thanks for this article. However, I have to wonder how many similar studies have been done for, say, flight attendants, stand up comedians, doctors, and lawyers. It seems that such studies are conducted with preconceived notions, and the results simply build upon these preconceived notions. That doesn't mean that adult film performers do not suffer from childhood abuse, depression, substance abuse, etc.; but it does mean that we ignore the fact that people in other professions deal with these same problems. In addition, I wonder why the study isolates females and does not specify sexual orientation and/or genre.
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a_guy_from_India
New Member

5 Posts
5/12
Posted - May 30 2012 : 07:49:58 PM


Gore Gore Girl wrote:
^ Thanks for this article. However, I have to wonder how many similar studies have been done for, say, flight attendants, stand up comedians, doctors, and lawyers. It seems that such studies are conducted with preconceived notions, and the results simply build upon these preconceived notions. That doesn't mean that adult film performers do not suffer from childhood abuse, depression, substance abuse, etc.; but it does mean that we ignore the fact that people in other professions deal with these same problems. In addition, I wonder why the study isolates females and does not specify sexual orientation and/or genre.

I partly agree with you, but respectfully, I think you might be missing an important point. Women working in the pornography industry, and in the adult entertainment industry in general, probably don't have specialist professional services to help them if and/or when they need any kind of help. I mean, people working in other professions probably do have professional support networks in place to turn to when they're having difficulties, but I wonder if the adult entertainment industry has taken any strong steps to look after its performers? I mean, from what I can tell, it sounds like some of them are strongly opposed to using condoms to minimise the risk of STI transmission, never mind worrying about how their performers deal with the emotional effects of taking repeated on-screen humiliation.

Let me stress one thing: I am NOT, I repeat NOT, an "anti-pornography" activist or campaigner. I used to view pornography occasionally myself in the past. It would be hypocritical if I started getting all "preachy" now. But I just feel that maybe we have a responsibility to try and put services in place to try and provide for the well-being of the people who work in the adult entertainment business? I'm really sorry if I sound patronizing.

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Gore Gore Girl
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

www.goregoregirl.com
7722 Posts
1/09
Posted - May 30 2012 : 08:03:18 PM
^ I think terms such as "anti-porn" and "pro-porn" are a bit silly, and if concern for the well being of performers is "anti-porn" then that's pretty fucked up. So, it did not occur to me that you were anti-porn simply because you have a concern. I'm sure others will level that accusation against you though.

Regarding access to mental health services, that would be interesting to learn about. For example, it strikes me as possible that because of preconceived notions of sex work/sex workers, there might be more open discussion of work-related stress amongst the workers themselves. Certainly, support groups and tight networks of sex workers exist, as do non-profits for this purpose. Then again, maybe not. I see your point. On the other hand, lawyers, nurses, etc. might have their own "macho"/"superwoman" complex that stops them from seeking out medical attention. Then factor in sex (males are much less likely to seek help for depression), sexual orientation, race, religion, region, etc. I think these studies need to be more complex. (I certainly don't know enough about this subject to make conclusive statements -- I'm just throwing out some thoughts).

My point is simply that the rates of child abuse, depression, and substance abuse in general would suggest that no matter which profession you study, the rates will be high. Which professions are studied in this regard tells us a lot about who we assume to be damaged.

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morbidthoughts
Senior Member

Big cats scare me but...
4109 Posts
1/03
Posted - May 30 2012 : 08:14:06 PM


Gore Gore Girl wrote:
^ Thanks for this article. However, I have to wonder how many similar studies have been done for, say, flight attendants, stand up comedians, doctors, and lawyers. It seems that such studies are conducted with preconceived notions, and the results simply build upon these preconceived notions. That doesn't mean that adult film performers do not suffer from childhood abuse, depression, substance abuse, etc.; but it does mean that we ignore the fact that people in other professions deal with these same problems. In addition, I wonder why the study isolates females and does not specify sexual orientation and/or genre.

I know the question was rhetorical and presumes bias on behalf of science but

Doctors
Flight attendants

Meanwhile, trying to find a study on lawyers is more difficult in trying to separate them from their clients. Also they face the issue of possible disbarment should they admit their illness.

Open the definition of mental illness to alcoholism and substance abuse... Trust me there's plenty of studies on those.

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a_guy_from_India
New Member

5 Posts
5/12
Posted - May 30 2012 : 08:20:32 PM


My point is simply that the rates of child abuse, depression, and substance abuse in general would suggest that no matter which profession you study, the rates will be high. Which professions are studied in this regard tells us a lot about who we assume to be damaged.


I agree with you on that.

More work is needed.

If/when I have the time, I'll try and dig out more data, and post the links here if I can find them.

If people choose to work in the porn business, they should have the freedom to make that choice.

We just have a responsibility to provide a kind of safety net to make sure they don't get hurt too badly if they have a fall.

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Gore Gore Girl
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

www.goregoregirl.com
7722 Posts
1/09
Posted - May 30 2012 : 08:34:40 PM


morbidthoughts wrote:

Doctors
Flight attendants

Meanwhile, trying to find a study on lawyers is more difficult in trying to separate them from their clients. Also they face the issue of possible disbarment should they admit their illness.

Open the definition of mental illness to alcoholism and substance abuse... Trust me there's plenty of studies on those.


Sweet. Thanks. The flight attendant one isn't working for me, but I can find it. There was also an anthropological study on flight attendants and emotional labor, which was then used to show how similar stripping and mental health management is to that of flight attending.

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pat362
Senior Member

4537 Posts
3/10
Posted - May 30 2012 : 09:05:26 PM


You might want to consider where you'll end up if you go down that 'stealing a job' road. How about people doing work that serves no other purpose than to give them a job?

Unemployment is very high right now so if someone wins millions of dollars and keeps on working then he or she is in someway stealing a job that could go to someone who clearly needs it a lot more than them. It's not a crime if they keep theior jobs but it is kind of self-centered. I would think that if someone loves what they do and have the means to not work then they could volunteer their services for free. There are plenty of organisation that need volunteer work and who better than someone who no longer needs to work to earn a living.

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Hardware
Senior Member

Purple passion
26459 Posts
3/02
Posted - May 30 2012 : 09:42:30 PM
I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the Law of Unintended Consequences, then take your idea and play "What if?" for a while. Of course, you're just riffing off of Marx, so the answers shouldn't be hard to come by.
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tbetts12
Member

91 Posts
11/10
Posted - May 30 2012 : 09:58:45 PM
thanks for those studies,I have been looking for studies like this. As i struggle with being a porn consumer with also being concerned with their health
they compared pornstars to other california woman.

the rape comparison rates were interesting, in the U.S
i believe the rate 1/4 to1/3 woman and california pornstars have
about the same rate.

about 20% of all U.S woman have beeen molested and pornstars have a 34%
rate. so thats about 14% difference.

One thing that is positive about this study is that the majority of pornstars
are in the same mental health as average woman as none of the negative traits went over 50%

but I think porn producers should make a valid effort not to recruit girls
from troubled back ground

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tbetts12
Member

91 Posts
11/10
Posted - May 30 2012 : 09:59:49 PM
thanks for those studies,I have been looking for studies like this. As i struggle with being a porn consumer with also being concerned with their health
they compared pornstars to other california woman.

the rape comparison rates were interesting, in the U.S
i believe the rate 1/4 to1/3 woman and california pornstars have
about the same rate.

about 20% of all U.S woman have beeen molested and pornstars have a 34%
rate. so thats about 14% difference.

One thing that is positive about this study is that the majority of pornstars
are in the same mental health as average woman as none of the negative traits went over 50%

but I think porn producers should make a valid effort not to recruit girls
from troubled back ground.

I would like to see studies that isolate for race,class and geography though.

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 31 2012 : 05:09:28 AM
Seems to be the rule these days. When you want to take someone's freedom of choice away (because they're doing something you wouldn't, apparently), make up a mental illness for them and declare them sick in the head and incapable of thinking properly.

Well, actually, that's been around for awhile. Hasn't it?

Do you think it might be sluggish schizophrenia?


Edited by - randomprecision on 5/31/2012 5:15:26 AM

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geralt
Member

423 Posts
7/11
Posted - May 31 2012 : 08:40:58 AM
I think it's sad that some people just consider porn girls as objects "who cares if she feels pain during a scene"

Personally I regard porn girls as respectable humans, who needs to be treated with respect. Sure some scenes are rough and the girls agree to it, some people get off on seing girls break down during scenes :S

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - May 31 2012 : 09:41:47 AM


geralt wrote:
I think it's sad that some people just consider porn girls as objects "who cares if she feels pain during a scene"


I think it's sad that people like you never shut up. Your viewpoint has been heard and at this point, all you're doing is trolling.

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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - May 31 2012 : 07:26:27 PM


a_guy_from_India wrote:
This is probably not going to answer your question, but there is some evidence to suggest that women working in the pornography industry do have higher rates of mental health problems, including depression.

Here's a link to a study published by researchers from the Mt Sinai School of Medicine. It was published in the Journal "Psychiatric Services".


Thanks!

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tbetts12
Member

91 Posts
11/10
Posted - May 31 2012 : 07:55:44 PM


RandomPrecision wrote:
Seems to be the rule these days. When you want to take someone's freedom of choice away (because they're doing something you wouldn't, apparently), make up a mental illness for them and declare them sick in the head and incapable of thinking properly.

Well, actually, that's been around for awhile. Hasn't it?

Do you think it might be sluggish schizophrenia?

Edited by - randomprecision on 5/31/2012 5:15:26 AM


no one is making up mental ilness,they did a scientific study with
control group and it was certified by the the journal of medicine.

This is not a reason to take pornstars choice away.porn should use this
as a oppurtunity,to try and hire more mentally healthy people,and provide support
to the woman who need help.

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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - Jun 1 2012 : 11:54:12 AM

no one is making up mental ilness,they did a scientific study with
control group and it was certified by the the journal of medicine.


Do you have a link to this study?

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Gore Gore Girl
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

www.goregoregirl.com
7722 Posts
1/09
Posted - Jun 1 2012 : 12:12:11 PM
From earlier in the thread:



a_guy_from_India wrote:

Here's a link to a study published by researchers from the Mt Sinai School of Medicine. It was published in the Journal "Psychiatric Services".


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morbidthoughts
Senior Member

Big cats scare me but...
4109 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jun 1 2012 : 06:44:38 PM


Gore Gore Girl wrote:
In addition, I wonder why the study isolates females and does not specify sexual orientation and/or genre.

Most likely due to sample size. Out of a potential pool of 4000 only 134 women responded. The potential pool for men is so much smaller that they would not be able to draw any statistically significant correlations or conclusions.

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mharris127
Senior Member

3395 Posts
8/09
Posted - Jun 2 2012 : 09:56:22 PM


pat362 wrote:


Agreed. But I wonder how many of us would get out of our jobs just as quickly as possible if, for example, we won the lotto?

Only a fool chooses to stay at work after he wins a large sum at the lotery. A 34 years old man won 50 millions dollars a couple of weeks ago in Canada and he claimed that he would keep on working. Well let me tell you that unless he gives almost all of it then he will have a very miserable life at work. Here is a guy that is a multi-millionaire stealing a job from someone who nneds it because he's deluding himself that his life will remain the same as before he won that money. We all work to make money so that we can pay our bills and buy stuff that we may or may not need. The fact that we love our job isn't all that important because most of us would quit a job we love to get one that pays twice as much and that we only like.


I wouldn't say that. To some people their job is their life and quitting it would be too painful for them. There are even examples of this in porn such as Peter Acworth, John Stagliano (at least before the Feds fucked him over) and the late John Leslie. They can/could afford to quit and live happily ever after but they keep/kept working. Even Roy Karch only semi-retired and keeps his toes into porn as a consultant.

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KatjaKassin
Senior Member

1536 Posts
5/03
Posted - Jun 2 2012 : 11:27:52 PM
Since I study psychology and my ultimate goal is to become a clinical psychologist I want to throw in my two cents. First of all there is a reason why a clinician, a mental health professional, must study 10 or more years in order to be legally allowed to diagnose mental conditions.
Second, just because someone does something abnormal or behaves out of the ordinary doesn't justify for a mental pathological diagnosis.
The criteria for mental disorders according to the DSM-IV, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders by the American Psychiatric Association, are:

a) Deviance (behavior deviates considerately from norm)
b) maladaptive behavior (daily life functioning is impaired)
c) personal distress (patients are severely troubled by their condition)

The other topic that was mentioned here is do pornstars like what they do. I personally have to say I like my job for various reasons but I don't do it out of sexual motivations. Sexual gratification is not why I am a porn star.
Humans become usually quite distressed if they get into a situation that is characterized by cognitive dissonance. Therefore it is very hard for anyone to do something that he/she ansolutely hates for a longer period of time. Most people will either stop doing the disliked activity or convince themselve to like it.
There are probably porn stars who appreciate their job for the sexual variety, there are those who like the relatively high payment for unskilled work, others might value the attention it gives them. Maybe some had traumatic experience that drives them to engage in similar activities.
People come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and their motivations are just as broad. I don't think it is fair to make a blank statement and claim that the majority of porn performers are mentally ill. I'm not saying there are none who do have such a condition but I doubt that the prevalence is significantly higher than in the general population.

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KatjaKassin
Senior Member

1536 Posts
5/03
Posted - Jun 2 2012 : 11:34:28 PM


morbidthoughts wrote:


Gore Gore Girl wrote:
In addition, I wonder why the study isolates females and does not specify sexual orientation and/or genre.

Most likely due to sample size. Out of a potential pool of 4000 only 134 women responded. The potential pool for men is so much smaller that they would not be able to draw any statistically significant correlations or conclusions.


In general females have a higher rate in answering and returning surveys. Maybe because it is socially more acceptable for women to engage in self-disclosure and talk about their feelings and motivations.
And a sample size of n=134 (especially of a population of 4000) would be considered a sufficient number. If you raise the number of participants after that, error term does not decrease much anymore. Sample size versus error term do not relate linearly. After a certain sample size is reached error term does not get much smaller.

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Valentine
Member

flash in the pan
421 Posts
8/11
Posted - Jun 7 2012 : 03:08:00 PM
Katja -

thanks for all of your insights. This is not a simple subject but you helped make some sense out of it for me especially in regards to the clinical stuff you discussed and the differentiation between it and a pathological diagnosis. Again, thank you.

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tbetts12
Member

91 Posts
11/10
Posted - Jul 1 2012 : 08:14:38 PM


KatjaKassin wrote:
Since I study psychology and my ultimate goal is to become a clinical psychologist I want to throw in my two cents. First of all there is a reason why a clinician, a mental health professional, must study 10 or more years in order to be legally allowed to diagnose mental conditions.
Second, just because someone does something abnormal or behaves out of the ordinary doesn't justify for a mental pathological diagnosis.
The criteria for mental disorders according to the DSM-IV, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders by the American Psychiatric Association, are:

a) Deviance (behavior deviates considerately from norm)
b) maladaptive behavior (daily life functioning is impaired)
c) personal distress (patients are severely troubled by their condition)

The other topic that was mentioned here is do pornstars like what they do. I personally have to say I like my job for various reasons but I don't do it out of sexual motivations. Sexual gratification is not why I am a porn star.
Humans become usually quite distressed if they get into a situation that is characterized by cognitive dissonance. Therefore it is very hard for anyone to do something that he/she ansolutely hates for a longer period of time. Most people will either stop doing the disliked activity or convince themselve to like it.
There are probably porn stars who appreciate their job for the sexual variety, there are those who like the relatively high payment for unskilled work, others might value the attention it gives them. Maybe some had traumatic experience that drives them to engage in similar activities.
People come in all kinds of shapes and sizes and their motivations are just as broad. I don't think it is fair to make a blank statement and claim that the majority of porn performers are mentally ill. I'm not saying there are none who do have such a condition but I doubt that the prevalence is significantly higher than in the general population.


good reply,but one question, dont most people especially in this recession
work jobs they dont like. I see no difference in a tele-marketer pounding away miserably on the phone
and say a chick sucking cocks of guys she is not really into just for the sake of making ends meet.
I guess if both ppl really hated their gigs then they would quit or they just become content

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 1 2012 : 08:49:12 PM
Interesting topic but what about the men who do porn surely some of them have issues mentally, were any of them abused as kids? Or even the people who demand and buy into some of the sicker shit people produce in porn, they too probably have some mental issues also, or maybe abused as kids in some way.

I was reading some of the testimonies by former porn stars on the pink cross website and the experiences they went through and why they had to get out were pretty shocking, and we are not talking about women, but some men who were porn stars also, and it fucked them up mentally.

However I do believe there are those who do it because its who they are, and they enjoy it, and they think of themselves as artists, and are someone who is famous for it. I also think perhaps they are the smarter ones, who look after themselves, and have a good family balance at home. They also know how the sell themselves and not give away themselves cheaply either.

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 1 2012 : 10:21:04 PM
Something I forgot to add maybe the mods can merge my posts, but it is also possible some have got into doing porn briefly because they are perhaps suffering from mental illness such as manic depression or also known as a bipolar disorder. One of the symptoms of bipolar or manic depression is heightened sexual activity when the person is in the manic stage, which may mean they go out looking to do the things sexually that they just wouldnt do normally. Like looking for one night stands for example, if its something they never do normally.

They are only in it breifly because they break down and get diagnosed and treated for their condition, and when that happens they just dont have the sexual energy they had in the manic stage.

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killbillvol69
Moderator

^Lucy Pinder
14033 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jul 1 2012 : 10:50:17 PM

Kezza wrote:
I was reading some of the testimonies by former porn stars on the pink cross website and the experiences they went through and why they had to get out were pretty shocking, and we are not talking about women, but some men who were porn stars also, and it fucked them up mentally.

You can read right here on ADT about how what is posted about people on the Pink Cross website as their "testimonies" is often completely fabricated nonsense, made up by Shelley Lubben and her employees. Don't trust a word of what you read there.

Now, I'm by no means implying that some of the things you read couldn't have happened to someone at some time. Anything could have happened to somebody at some point in the history of the world. But those things most likely didn't happen to those people.

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 1 2012 : 11:54:15 PM
Thanks didnt know too much about it just something a stumbled across.
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fevrinnn
Member

72 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 2 2012 : 12:47:32 AM
I wonder if there are many porn fans that dont think most girls who enter the industry must be messed up in the head somehow. And whenever ive heard people within the industry speak on it, they usually arent busy praising the decision making ability and sanity of the girls that choose to enter. However, as Katja says, that is different to saying someone can be classified with a mental illness.

Part of the issue is our disbelief that anyone would enter porn without having a troubled background, financial pressures, or simply being a deficient decision maker. We need these types of reasons in order to understand the person. Applying this filter can mean we never get to see the full picture. Instead, once we've heard the bit that we need, we stop listening and put them in the box we already had prepared. Porn is a job. It is a great gig for some people, a living hell or false start for others. People also continually re evaluate their career in porn as they go along, Katja being a good example of this. What was serving their purposes at 19yrs is no longer compatible with how they feel about life at 23.

You may graduate college and go into what you held at that point as your dream job. You work in it for 5 years, work your butt off and learn a lot about yourself and life. When you are 40 and look back on it, you may see that era as a giant waste of time. In reality it was a job you didnt enjoy, it restricted you in various ways and you wish you'd made a completely different decision back then. This what i think when i hear some of those girls who blast against porn, once their struggling, ill suited, cameo forays have concluded. Plenty of the girls that Shelley Lubben picks on, I've just never heard of. Crucially, they all adopt a passive narrative, they just sat back and watched all these things happen to them. They cannot yet accept that their experiences are based on their own behaviors and decision making. There are numerous girls in porn, some of them arent suited for it. There are also plenty of companies, some of them are small time outfits who are run by complete shits. It doesnt mean all pornographers are bad or that all girls are having a crappy time.

Porn is a massive melting pot of personalities and its impossible to generalize and account for them all. Due to its very low entry barrier, it does get some people who are troubled. If someone shoots 6 movies are they a forever and only a pornstar. Is there such a thing as a pornstar? Porn does not own the identity of all the people it features or have to explain the troubles in their lives. Are they not just porn performers, on a continuum from 1 movie to 500+. I see Shelley Lubben as a meth addicted hooker who shot porn for one of the years in her troubled life. Society will call her a pornstar but she was a hooker much more than she was a porn performer. One year does not override the rest of her identity for me. But thats the mentality of our society, and it affects how we process all this information.

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 2 2012 : 01:14:43 AM
^^ I agree there are probably those who become porn stars because its the career that they have chosen to pursue, and the ones who can handle it are probably those who are smart enough to not allow themselves to be walked over in the business they are in. I agree that some may of had bad experiences due to their behaviours and decision making, and some of them may of been abused as a child, sex addiction or even due to a mental disorder such as bipolar which can increase their sex drive to the point of them engaging in risky sexual behaviour at times,or have made them feel worthless and self loath themselves at times, and as a result they have made some bad decisions in life.

Edited by - Kezza on 7/2/2012 1:19:08 AM

Edited by - Kezza on 7/2/2012 1:20:33 AM

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RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Dookie?
28480 Posts
3/06
Posted - Jul 2 2012 : 11:01:52 AM
Ladies and gentlemen...welcome to the roundabout way of persecuting the porn business and it's clientele. If you can't do it in a courtroom with an obscenity charge, find yourself a quack with a psychology degree and have him declare the participants to be lunatics who are incapable of making decisions.

ADT has been infested with these trolls for years. They used to be kicked out pretty quickly but now they're just all over the place.

Edited by - randomprecision on 7/2/2012 11:03:44 AM

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 2 2012 : 09:57:18 PM
I hope that wasn't aimed at me so you cant have a discussion without being labelled as a troll? No-one said Porn stars are not capable of making decisions nor i'm I persecuting them, they are human beings afterall. I'm just saying there are people out there who make some pretty destructive and poor choices in their lives due to past abuse, addictive personalities, and mental illness.

I work at a hospital, which deals with people from all walks of life who are struggling through mental illness, addictive personalities, and past abuse.

Thats not to say a porn star had issues when they decided to be a porn star, but they could of developed problems have lead to some pretty destructive and poor choices in thier lives through abusive situations, addictive behaviours and mental illness does not discriminate it can happen to anyone in any profession.

Thats all i'm going to say on this topic.

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tbetts12
Member

91 Posts
11/10
Posted - Jul 2 2012 : 11:09:17 PM


RandomPrecision wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen...welcome to the roundabout way of persecuting the porn business and it's clientele. If you can't do it in a courtroom with an obscenity charge, find yourself a quack with a psychology degree and have him declare the participants to be lunatics who are incapable of making decisions.

ADT has been infested with these trolls for years. They used to be kicked out pretty quickly but now they're just all over the place.

Edited by - randomprecision on 7/2/2012 11:03:44 AM


just because we are porn supporters dont mean that we have to except
all the current business practice. There are multiple studies and many anecdotal accounts
of pornstars having more trouble,then the average girl in her population or demographic.
We as pornstars supporters should address these problems, and support a more healthy environment
for our favorite entertainers. I definitively encourage porn companies not to hire girls who may seem like they have
issue and try to find more mentally stable talent,even if it means expending more resources.

Wrestling had alot of issues in the 80's and 90's and after the Chris benoit
death they instituted policies to provide a healthier enviroment for the wrestlers.
People who were advocating these policies were not anti-prowrestling

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SP_Love
Member

"I think I fell in love with a porn star."
307 Posts
2/11
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 12:14:04 AM
I think that you suffer from mental illness if you don't want to be a porn star!

:-)

"It takes courage to enjoy it: the hardcore and gentle...Big Time Sensuality!"

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 12:20:15 AM
Just a question is there cases of men who enter porn that have broke down in some way? Not just women.

I think its naive to think that the Adult industry isnt a destructive one for some, same with the music industry and entertainment industry, or even in a certain sport industries. They do not care about the individual its all about the money they make and about promoting the brand. They build them up, promote them, push them to the limits, and when they are finished or retired they dont want to know them etc.


I was reading about a certain sport star in the country I live in which is Australia say he was glad his club had sacked him for certain behaviours, because it saved his life and his relationship with his family. He had trouble dealing with alcohol which lead to some pretty obscene behaviours in public, serious gambling habits where he was blowing thousands of dollars a day, and suicidal thoughts eventually because he felt he had lost everything.

The club and organisation in which the club was apart of didnt get rid of the sports star because they were worried about him, its because they were worried about the brand they want to promote, and the money they want to protect in their industry.

I guess thats life unfortunately it wont stop me from watching porn, listening to music, watching movies, television shows, or even the sport the certain player I was talking about use to play before his fall from grace.

Edited by - Kezza on 7/3/2012 12:51:44 AM

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draghixafan
Senior Member

wants more sleaze and bush
1950 Posts
7/09
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 03:19:25 AM


Kezza wrote:
I was reading about a certain sport star in the country I live in which is Australia say he was glad his club had sacked him for certain behaviours, because it saved his life and his relationship with his family. He had trouble dealing with alcohol which lead to some pretty obscene behaviours in public, serious gambling habits where he was blowing thousands of dollars a day, and suicidal thoughts eventually because he felt he had lost everything.

The club and organisation in which the club was apart of didnt get rid of the sports star because they were worried about him, its because they were worried about the brand they want to promote, and the money they want to protect in their industry.


Bradshaw Brown was a much better combo with the superstar forward drawing defenders while the other was open. The Fev was a disaster for Brisbane, and never seen anyone one run so hot & cold and not week to week but in the same quarter.. kick a miracle goal then shank the next into the crowd, take a blinder and then drop the next cold. And have no doubt he was as much a pain in the ass as he was in the public/media and corrosive influence around the clubhouse too. For a man was so much talent (and as the title they always give sportstars here as a role model) he was an embarrassment.. put simply he has always been a yob.. and had no-one to blame except himself.

Edit - Maybe harsh but ffs.. sports superstar, loved by tens of thousands, made millions of dollars, porking Alex Cheatham and Lara Bingle two of the hottest big titted blondes in the country at the same time.. then woe is me, I pissed all my money away gambling, was always suffering from depression and now am suicidal.. fuck off! Talk about people coming up with medical terms to explain their behavior. He's a yob. How about people with REAL problems and mental illness.

Edited by - draghixafan on 7/3/2012 3:47:07 AM

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Kezza
Member

Female porn lover
357 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 06:19:08 AM
^^ Lara Bingle was no saint either, she knew he was married and then went onto bugger up her relationship with Clarke, because her and her agent got greedy. By releasing nude pics of herself and crying about the invasion of privacy, while selling herself to one of the women mags and talking about her relationship. But I agree Fev was a dickhead who blew his talent away same as that rugby league player who looked like Fev.

I dont have any sympathy for him also and I dont think you are being harsh. Mind you some were skeptical when its a well known person who blew it all a bit like George Best, then again he only had himself to blame for his organs failing him due to the boozing for years and years and even had a liver transplant and still drank.

Anyway moving away from the topic.

Edited by - Kezza on 7/3/2012 6:28:06 AM

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fevrinnn
Member

72 Posts
6/12
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 07:37:06 AM
Here's one for you to muse on Kezza.

Adult FYI blog


I find it highly amusing when porn performers attempt to dispel rumors about the industry in press releases only to perpetuate them with Jerry Springer behavior in national publications.

Like GQ, which just did a piece on performer James Deen titled “The Well Hung Boy Next Door”.

It’s bikini babe Kate Upton who’s selling the issue by being on the cover, with the Deen article buried on page 102 ff. Which is to say if you hadn’t been alerted to the fact that Deen was in GQ at all, the mag certainly doesn’t go out of its way to promote it.

No quibble at all with Deen who handles himself admirably with impeccable, mature comments. It’s Allie James who should be given a Curly Howard slap to the side of the head.

On the set of Losing Kayden, a Robbie Dee movie for Digital Playground, the set up is that Steve Holmes is a crime boss. Deen is a nervous, edgy, gambling addict with very destructive tendencies; and James is asked by the GQ writer, Wells Tower, what her part is in all this.

“I’ll be crawling around under a table sucking cock,” she replies

I wonder what James’ retort would have been had Forbes been doing the asking. In any event, the statement that should have the Shelley Lubbens of the world fiddling with their rosary beads is when James volunteers the fact that, at age 9, she’d have sex with her brothers’ friends in exchange for marijuana.

“And you were cool with it?” Deen asks her.

“Oh, yeah!” says James.

“As long as you were cool with it,” Deen says. One might sense the dripping sarcasm.

A picture of James sucking Steve Holmes’ dick is later emailed to her mother. [That had to have been some household.]

“Yeah, obviously she’s damaged,” Deen, displaying some rational thought, tells the GQ writer.

"I’m like getting pimped out when you were 9 so your brothers could smoke weed?” Deen continues.

“That’s not healthy [besides being criminal].

“She’s like Rick Santorum’s wet dream, the poster child for how people in porn are damaged. But for every person like her, there’s someone like, I’d like to say me. I had a great childhood.

"My parents and I get along. I just like sex, and I like porn, and I think it’s fun. I’m always terrified that someday I’m going to come to the realization that I’ve got some deep, dark secret, some terrifying horrible experience where I’m going to be like, ‘I’m actually not normal. I’m a crazy person!’ But it just doesn’t seem to be the case.”


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draghixafan
Senior Member

wants more sleaze and bush
1950 Posts
7/09
Posted - Jul 3 2012 : 06:22:51 PM


Kezza wrote:
^^ Lara Bingle was no saint either


True.. talentless media whore .. now that is being harsh lol

I would watch her tv show if they had a weekly adults only version like the old Big Brother with her in lingerie and the shower :D

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