I have a decent disposable income ($10k a month) plus $50k in savings. I realize porn is generally a dead-end in terms of making money, but the niche I'm interested in doesn't seem well served: Consensual Non-Consent. Facial abuse comes close, but it is trashy and apparently criminal. I think that CNC, done right, would be something new and exciting. I have a lot of personal experience with it (you can imagine where my disposable income has been going up to now).
So I'd like to start creating CNC content.
On one hand, I can start contacting agencies to find women who would be open to this kind of thing, but on the other, I have no experience and I can't see talent and agencies throwing caution to the wind when it comes to CNC produced by a total unknown. Also, while I'm an experienced software engineer and can handle any web-based distribution, I don't have the slightest clue as to how to film or market porn.
So, I'm looking for a partnership, and this forum seems like the right place to find one. Ideally, I produce under the auspices of an existing company while funding the entire affair, enabling me to tap into their existing resources for both production and talent.
I can fly out to LA/Vegas/wherever to talk more details in person, or hop on a phone call. Looking forward to any thoughts, criticisms, or opportunities to talk more with people in the business.
So I have a stack of experience creating porn but none selling it. I've made a dozen or so films and am reasonably close to you in terms of content.
One thing I've been amazed at is what some people will do for cash. Now whilst I've filmed genuine AVN nominated pornstars, I've also filmed onlyfans models too. I've been told my approach is top notch, and hence I've got unbelievably stunning girls to do disgusting stuff. Amazingly they all want to do it again. The large financial remuneration certainly helps but also ensuring they are comfortable at all times.
I shoot face fucking with vomit, vomit play, rough breast play, golden showers and throat pies. So it's pretty extreme.
Some approach tips
1) I would think you'll struggle with agencies. I'd recommend starting with either sex workers or only fans models. Only fans models would be best. Aside from paying them well, maybe offer to shoot some stuff for their onlyfans so they get money and content.
2) be clear, honest and communicative with what you want. A bad rep will hurt you just like a good rep will open doors for You.
3) contracts and paperwork will be your friend and protect you
Some filming tips
1) if you don't have a camera man you'll need to think about framing. I use 2-3 tripod mounted cameras, but I'm fortunate in that what I film works well with stationary positions. Dickdrainers is a good site to check out for fixed camera face fucking.
2) obviously lighting is important. Go nuts with soft boxes.
3) you need a good space. Tying in with thinking about your shots, junk how they will go in your space. Think about noise too, as facial abuse style sex will make a lot of noise.
Selling
I have no experience here but I would imagine a clips4sale type setup would be good. I'm certain I'd clean up selling my content if I wanted to. The girls are generally from the top shelf, the content is extreme and niche, and the footage is spectacular. But I make it for me so that won't happen. If I was going to sell it I'd go the clips4sale or manyvids route.
My overall tip is to go for it. Regret the things you don't do.
puppyrescuer aims to put the sensual in non-consensual
On a more serious note I'm not sure what you mean by "consensual non-consent" exactly, did you come up with it or is it in use among fetish communities? I assumed you meant it as a euphemism for roleplay rape porn because adults apparently aren't allowed to discuss adult topics in an honest manner these days (and looking at its popularity in the uncensored world of hentai/porn comics I agree that it seems underserved in live action western porn at least), but given that you then also referred to facial abuse as somewhat catering to that niche I'm confused.
From what little I've been able to watch of FA -without puking my guts out- it's just humiliation porn with rough sex and body fluids that ends up making the women look like shit. Maybe the sadistic part is a bit extra with them ostensibly hiring newbies who don't know when to quit after getting their feelings hurt, but that's a very long way from it looking anything like forced sex/non-consent/rape porn, even if we are now left to assume (after GDP & co) that most of these casting couch sites are effectively pulling some "non-consensual consent" shenanigans behind the camera.
This is a non-answer because I don't know what the answer is, but I have seen that term used in other threads too. My guess is that it is a scene where non-consent is part of the role playing. A model signs up for a r*pe scene knowing that's what it is and she plays as if she isn't consenting. Like what Hardcore Gangbang does, or at least did. Bound Gangbangs too.
Hi Nate. The very first thing you should do, is contact EPOCH
https://epoch.com/business_services?ref=ml
They are the largest internet payment service provider for porn (there was a movie made about them called 'Middle Men').
Explain to them your idea, and ask them if it is acceptable. If they say no, your chances are next to zero for selling this content online.
Some CNC content that is borderline allowed:
- girls pretending to be hypnotized - rough sex that doesn't leave bruising and no face punching - girls pretending to be mannequins (or time has stopped) - gloryholes
some CNC content NOT allowed:
- anything with rape or alludes to rape - sex while the girl is sleeping - sex while the girl is inebriated - rough sex that leads to damage, especially any hint of blood
CNC content that is allowed on case-by-case basis:
CNC is a phrase I didn't come up with, but covers many forms of role-play involving rape. I shouldn't have equated it with Facial Abuse, which isn't what I'm looking to make at all. FA focuses on physical brutality with a bit of emotional brutality thrown in. The only similarity in what I'm looking to make is that it is sometimes ambiguous to me whether the women really knew what they were signing up for (when just watching some of the videos).
It sounds like there are a few options:
- Find some onlyfans models to shoot with - Figure out whether EPOCH would support the style of CNC I have in mind, and if they don't, figure out some alternative.
The particular style of CNC I have in mind is one that leaves the user wondering whether they just saw a real rape or not. Like one of you said, it should still be sensual in the opposite way that FA is non-sensual. The only scenarios where this makes sense are where the women is initially attracted to the man, but the man takes it further than the woman wants: date-rape, on-set rape, etc.
Image a GirlsDoPorn scene where when the woman is signing her contract, but the women is only signing up for oral. They discuss a safe-word, but there is some back and forth where it is confusing what the safe-word is. During the scene, the man escalates to penetrative sex and the women says at some point, clearly, "no, no, stop". The man ignores her, telling her things like, "It's fine, just go with it." She says the safe-word. We hear the director say, "She's good. Wait for the safe-word. Keep going." Even the man looks at the camera for a second wondering if he should stop. But he keeps going. She's crying in a soft way, still protesting. But this isn't a physically brutal rape like FA. This is breaking the woman down emotionally, killing her psyche emotionally with fairly vanilla sex. The woman cums against her own will as the man cums too. It's horrifying to her, but the man feels her orgasm and tells her, "See, you loved it. You wanted it." Afterward, when the women starts to say something about going to the police, the director doesn't believe her at first. But then says that no one will believe her anyway. And if she ever wants another job in the business, she'd better say it was consensual, that there never was any confusion about the safe-word. Then she says the "real" safe-word, and suddenly is laughing/happy, and they all are high-fives about an amazing fake-rape scene. It ends with her saying she wasn't raped, that it was all role-play, and that she'd do it all over again. But she is still sniffling, sheds a few more tears, and her smile isn't quite what it should be.
So yeah, there's a lot of variations on this, and how it actually goes down would be a lot more natural when shooting. But the vision to me is fairly clear: blurring the lines between whether it was rape or not. And it would work a lot better with a well-known porn star rather than an onlyfans nobody. The press of "Miss XYZ denies being raped on set" or "Is this homemade porn or rape?" would be pretty good, IMHO. At the very least, I'd enjoy the hell out of seeing something like it, and the only way I see it happening is making it happen.
Like others have said I would tackle the credit card processing portion of this first. You'd be surprised at how prudish they are and how it can completely destroy your business.
I also second working with OF girls. Especially those who don't have a big profile yet.
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hoochimama Deactivated User
1436 Posts 5/10
Posted - Aug 11 2021 : 7:06PM
I felt the kink.com stuff was more about the rough sex than the rapey setups which were mostly there to justify the slapping and tossing around in what would otherwise be just a "normal" gangbang scene, no different from what legalporno does. It's portrayed as being done to the performers' benefit, as her fantasy. I mean Jessie Rogers for instance acted less reluctant in her Hardcore Gangbang scene than in her softcore "forced sex" scene as Super Girl for Punished Heroines (one of the few times I felt this kind of roleplay actually made a scene hotter).
And kink.com wasn't alone in tacking on rape themes to their otherwise "vanilla" scenes. At one point even a company like brazzers had it as their bread&butter story setup until they decided to delete all those scenes and even entire subsites like pornstarpunishment. And I'm sure that if they tacked on those themes (even if comically) it was for the same reason they are now tacking on incest themes in a similar manner: they did their research and found those to be the most fantasized about erotic themes (as opposed to tales of pizza delivery). Looking at porn comics you see incest, rape and cheating/cuckolding way up there.
And if brazzers removed those scenes I'm sure it was because anti-porn lobbies updated with the times and became a bigger threat. Religion was the politically correct of yesteryear, today they've mostly co-opted a flag of feminism and instead of threatening people with obscenity charges which are seemingly hard to enforce with internet-distributed porn they instead wield VISA as a threat, threatening to cut off your payment processing/income. Over the past few years clips4sale and IWantClips have similarly had to remove a good part of their videos for not conforming to the new VISA/payment processor dictates, which is why contacting epoch or looking to put this kind of porn on a big popular site like C4S as suggested earlier does not seem like a good idea. I don't think neutering/covering up your kinky porn works in the long run either, they'll ban whatever other category you use to cover it up too eventually (hypno, timestop etc). I think right now they're at the point where even POV femdom chicks -who keep their clothes on while simply looking at the camera as they trashtalk the viewer- have what they can and cannot say dictated by the payment processing companies.
Besides, OP said the fetish was underserved and that if done right it would be something new, so we have to assume he's not looking to imitate the "not rape" scenes on c4s, nor depict it in the comical way brazzers did, nor the poorly written and poorly acted way japanese porn videos do, nor the realistic/horror way extreme porn studios like PST and mainstream movies already depict it.
I can count on one hand the number of rape-themed scenes I felt were made hotter for it: the Jessie Rogers superhero one, the japanese Flower&Snake series, the camera scene in Daniel & Ana (2009), the final sex scene in The Concubine (2012) - all of them softcore. So I'm curious about "done right".
So in that specific scene, it would mostly look like BTS of what we are meant to assume goes on in some casting sites (GDP&co)? It sounds interesting, and yeah reproducing recent/high profile cases that are on people's minds also can't hurt with publicity, but that specific scene also sounds like something that could require (a lot of) acting talent. You'd be asking a pornstar (or soon to be one) to play a role, within a role, within a role.
OP said he wanted to start a CNC porn studio, which implies he wants to turn his passion into a business. Without payment processing, his business would have to go semi underground and accept crypto, or go to a country where CNC is allowed such as Japan. But if he doesn't want to make it a business, then yes, he doesn't have to ask EPOCH.Religion lobbyists have been around for decades, but porn is still being made. Brazzers had to remove the content because it depicted illegal acts in the country of production. That would've led to obscenity charges so a company like VISA, is being proactive, and thereby saving their asses. Threats without legal basis, are routinely ignored (and even actual legal threats are ignored after the child porn fiasco at pornhub). Rape is illegal, so porn depicting rape is illegal. Porn is held to different standards from Hollywood because actual penetration occurs
GirlsDoPorn is going to be a bad example since those guys were convicted and the website seized. Based on your description, you will likely not be approved by any payment processing company outside of Japan. Even with a safe word, the fact the girl says "no, no, stop", but the scene continues, is considered rape, even if simulated.
If the girl is performing a sexual act that was not agreed to beforehand, as in the example, it is considered rape.
The only way this might be viable is if you record everything, including the initial part of the performer agreeing to be the sub, and record witnesses attesting to the agreement, as well as recording the aftercare AND showing all this footage to the user, but this would take away the visual appeal for the customer, and I think the chances for processing approval is still slim.
I assume that you're familiar with kink.com already so I wanna ask how you feel that your site will be different from what they did. Or is the point just that you want your own version of kink.com? Also, if you're trying to avoid the amateur look you'll have to recruit a video crew first. There are outfits like Disciples of Desire that will pretty much handle everything on that side for you. Failing that, there are also videographers and photographers who specialize in shooting OnlyFans models. Someone like that could help you shoot and maybe even market. Also just curious, is this your only production interest or do you have other concepts in mind as well?
There have already been some great post so here is my take.
1-The type of content the OP wants to produce is the kind that can be easily targeted by the Government as being obscene in nature so most CC processor won't touch it.
2-If CC processors won't touch this kind of content then why would any established producer want to get involve knowing that any involvement will likely affect their ability to get a CC processors to do business with them in the future.
3-It's the kind of porn that many performers avoid shooting because they aren't comfortable with it and/or maybe they would fear for their health if they showed up to an unknown guys place to shoot what is essentially a rape themed scene.
To me these type of threads tend to fall under trolling or delusional. I'll give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he's not trolling us and say that if the OP has that kind of money and doesn't mind wasting it then don't go the main studio route and simply pick a performer and/or C4S/Many Vid studio that shoots similar content and get in touch with them. Since this would be a custom video request that will only be for personal use then it will more than likely fall under the radar of most CC processor and will cost significantly less than 60,000$ to produce. A large part of what many performers/models do on OF is offer custom videos. If the OP can prove that he has the kind of money he is talking about then it shouldn't have too much of a problem to find many women who are willing to shoot this kind of porn either with their partner or an established performer they are comfortable with.
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miketx100 Deactivated User
33 Posts 2/21
Posted - Aug 13 2021 : 2:02AM
You can't be this naive to think this will make you any revenue. If you have that much disposable cash, just keep producing it yourself. Jerk off to your own material. I produced a lot of my own porn from 2010-2018, blew through about $200,000 in cash. It was an expensive hobby that got out of control, it was an addiction. I would find models through Craigslist and Backpage. I was very lucky in that I live in Austin, so, I had fertile ground to recruit models. San Antonio is an hour to the south, Houston three to the east, Dallas three to the north, plus all the major suburbs of all the cities. I even shot with a number of women that were actually enlisted in the military at Killeen at Fort Hood. The funny thing I would have them sign a model release contract I dowloaded off the internet which I'm sure would never meet the legal definition of a contract. It was never my intension to release or post the material on the internet it just made the session look that much more professional. There are two things I learned doing amateur porn all those years, the first is women want to do porn. Either for the money, experience, boredom, or sex. I could not believe the number of responses I would receive, and not just that, the quality of women. I would get mail from college students, single moms, women in the military, girls who worked in retail, strippers, and the ones I could not believe were female bodybuilders. I must of shot porn with 25 female body builders in my years of producing porn. Now this comes from posting ads all over Texas, so I would drive all the way to Dallas to shoot with them. I only shot with 25 body builders but I must of received 200 emails from female body builders wanting to do porn. My theory is they are naturally use to exposing their bodies and porn just takes it one step further. Think my best shoot ever was I did a scene with a girl who was a hostess for a pre-game show with the Texas Rangers baseball team. She was not the main hostess but she would do various bits for the pre game show. She did the scene under the impression it would be posted to my website, which I didn't actually have. I paid her $2,000 to do that scene. Which was the most I ever paid. But she never told me of her job with the baseball team. I found out after I looked up her Facebook when she sent me the proof of age I required before communicating with any potential model. That's when I knew I had to make her an offer she could not resist. I think my biggest miss was a model named Megan Salinas, who went on to do a lot of porn. It must of been 2011 when she wrote me from an ad I posted in McAllen, Texas, which is in South Texas. She wanted to do a scene, but she was like 6 hours from me and I would only drive that south if I found two models to work with. About two weeks later I emailed her and she didn't reply for another week and told me she was in Arizona working with some guy. That was her ATF shoot. I still kick myself for missing that one cause this woman was freaking beautiful.
I never really thought of producing porn to sell online through a website, though I did have interesting conversations with Dave from Gloryhole Swallow and Rick from Backroom Casting Couch. I sent them proof of my work and I told them with the right help, I could make Texas a porn point like Miami and Arizona ( which at the times was becoming a place where lots of porn was being produced ). The available model catalog with so many major cities within a short driving distance would make for an endless stream of content. They offered me advice and Rick and I even communicated about him coming to Texas and producing some material with my assistance, but we never got it off the ground. I still have all my material shot with very rudimentary Sony handhelds and no lighting. I find it hard to believe anybody makes money off these $25 a month subscription websites. Just so you know I'm not BSin'g I will post a couple of proof pictures I had the models send me to verify proof of age before communicating on the aspects of doing a production.
OP said he's looking to produce porn, whether he ends up hosting his own store (which then might require setting up with an automated payment processor), puts it up on a clip store or some other solution still seems very much up in the air. Epoch is but one of many online payment processors, and when I said that it is not a good idea for an aspirant pornographer to contact a company like that to let them know of the specifics of his rape porn ideas expecting them to officially endorse or encourage them I was putting it mildly...
You should be aware that there are in fact studios producing extreme/realistic-looking roleplay rape porn (along with roleplay snuff porn, chicks shoving live cockroaches in their vaginas, dudes getting their testicles skewered etc), fetish stores selling it and all without having to "go semi underground", forcing crypto, nor having to operate from japan. And given puppyrescuer's tastes I'd be surprised if he's not aware of them and the fetish porn forums/communities where they advertise. You just won't find them on clips4sale/manyvids/iwantclips/onlyfans.
And what's wrong with accepting crypto? It's a plus. You can get fast food delivered, buy sporting tickets, airplane tickets and hotel stays with crypto. It's a plus and it's usually a feature requested by customers because nobody likes having their masturbatory habits exposed.
Is that how it works? My dreams of producing roleplay tax evasion porn shattered
I guess poop eating porn depicts crimes against taste
Censorship for the pornographer's own good! They should be downright thankful!
No need for that.I take it you asked the owners of the millions of paysites to come up with this thought?Let me guess, you like bodybuildersit's not censorship, it's the banks covering their ass for legal reasons. If he wants to make and sell fake non consent porn he needs has to find a bank who's willing to take on that type of risk, he also needs to be making $50,000 minimum from that content.
There are only two places in the US that it is technically legal to shoot porn. One of it is California. I forgot where the other one was but it's connecticut or something. That's why so much porn production is centered in LA. You run the risk of prostitution and obscenity charges anywhere else. Some states like New York, and Florida, turn a bit of a blind eye to it, as well as most blue states. Texas is a deep red state so the risks are higher. That may have turned off porn producers. The laws in each state are unlikely to change, but with changes to consumption and the political climate, states like Texas may start being more accepting of porn
I concur with ConstructiveCrit, thank you for the run down of your previous adventures.
Check his post. He says he wishes to put this online and market it.Crypto might be finally hitting mainstream, but previous attempts have shown little use from porn consumers. I had the chance to ask both the owners of Metart and FakeTaxi. They tried accepting crypto as early as 10 years ago during the first boom, and the last boom in 2017. Both said it was 1% of their transactions or less. For comparison, ACH transactions (people using chequing account numbers) can be as high as 5%+.
Back in 2017, two obstacles stopped widespread crypto as payment for goods and services: 1. transaction costs - $20 for a BTC or ERC transfer to buy a $500k digital painting is nothing, but for a $30 porn membership, it's a lot 2. crypto was used as an investment vehicle and not for purchasing consumer goods - if your crypto was growing by 20% per week, you are not likely to spend it on porn or anything else, but hold it or flip it to a greater fool.
Poop is an odd one. I don't see it as illegal, but most credit card companies won't touch it. Urine is on the edge.
Has anyone looked at SpankPay? They seem to be a cryptocurrency company (built atop Wyre) that handles the entire process in a hermetically sealed manner. Their underlying provider handles conversion of *debit* to crypto, and then they immediately convert crypto back into fiat. They don't seem to be super strict either.
