Just wanted to make a post to warn lovers of classic adult films and DVD purists that NuTech's "800 Fantasy Lane" DVD has been edited. The scene where Serena is fisted by Desiree Cousteau has been cut to shreds. They have looped the material to give the scene a similar length, but it now looks ridiculous.
I'm not a fan of fisting but I am a film lover. I want the director's complete vision and the film the way it was meant to be seen.
NuTech does a great job releasing the classics with good video and audio. I applaud them for that and because of their selection of releases, they are a favorite company of mine. But I would ask all those who care about the intergrity of golden age classics to boycott this particular DVD. They need to see that while there are lovers of classics out there who apprecitate what they do, these people will not settle for edited and censored DVD versions of films. I rather not have the film than have a censored version!
In all fairness to NuTech, most if not all of the companies right now edit fisting out of their releases. Aside from this title, NuTeck is my favorite studio for buying classics. I feel they're are not nearly as prudish when it comes to edits as VCA is. Why didn't you mention the questionable edits of the VCA titles like Barbara Broadcast, Everywoman Has A Fantasy I and II, and Let's get It On?
That being said, I totally agree with you. I love the classics and want more than any of that overrated extras crap, the whole damn movie the way it was originaly released. Not a shell of the old film with all the things that made it a classic in the first place removed. As long as everyone buys them regardless of the edits, there is no incentive for the smut companies to do the right thing and make every effort possible to avoid the prudish cuts. Is there anything more offensive then censored porn?
To people like VCA, NuTech and most of the rest of the porn production community, you can bet your ass there is -- indictment, prosecution, legal hassles and costs, as well as potential jail time!! Thank the prudist, fascist cities and communities who feel they must impose their own morality on everyone (free country or not!) and the legislators and prosecutors from the federal level on down who merely have to threaten prosecution or even just investigation to intimidate companies into either playing it super-safe or shutting down -- these are the folks responsible for our not being able to see these titles as they were originally released, not the studios and producers!
Let's face it, folks, porn is a business -- and there have been many posts here and at RAME about the nauseating atmosphere of "prior restraint" permeating the business today. All these "protectors against porn" have to do is simply threaten to "look into" some company or another, and everyone runs for the hills. Merely the fear of prosecution and its accompanying hassles, expenses and penalties is enough to cause the edits and stifle the free speech we're supposed to have as a right!
But don't blame the studios and producers -- you'd act the same if it were your company and your money on the line! Remember what ultimately happened to Larry Flynt, the hero who stood up for free speech in the 70's -- he wound up not being able to stand up at all!
JoHi - I didn't mention the edits in 'Barbara Broadcast' or the 'Every Woman has a Fantasyy films because they have already been talked about in the forum. If you would have done a search on them you'd seen that the incompleteness of these films is duly noted. Why would I bring it up again? I simply wanted to make note of a new case of censorship to warn others! 'As for Let's Get it On,' that's too recent of a film for me. I only like the real classics.
Second off, I said that I also like NuTech. They are one of my favs. That doesn't change the fact that I don't like what they did to this film. The very least they could have done was put a warning on the box stating that it was incomplete so I wouldn't have wasted my money on this shit! I feel I've been had. I refuse to by cut shit. I want uncut or nothing.
It is the producers and the studios who are responsible for the editing. I do blame them. They don't have the balls to stand up for what is right. They are too afraid to make waves that they end up staying out of the water.
Somebody made these films. They didn't have any problem filming the fisting scenes or the rape scenes. Someone initially distibuted these films. They didn't have a problem releasing the fistings or rapes. Who's in jail right now because of these films? No one I know of. This fear is bullshit. If they are scared, get them out of the business. They have no right to edit these classics. Let's throw away Birth of a Nation because it's racist! Let's lose the horse head in The Godfather because it promotes cruelty to animals. Last Temptation of Christ is too controversial, let's burn the film and Scorsese!
No one has the right to alter these films. Lot's of videos with alot worse than one fisting scene are readily available. How do they get out? Somebody has balls. Fuck everybody else. If you won't stand up, then leave. We don't need you.
I've met with Larry Flynt, and he still stands a lot taller than these spineless idiots who censor THEMSELVES. The blame is on them. Nobody is making them censor anything. Your exactly right, it is fear. Fear on their part. It's really silly shit.
I quote JFK - The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
You know what, on second thought considering who's in office let's just stop all porn for now. That way we won't have anything to worry about. Scared of tougher policy on adult entertainment?You don't have to be if there isn't an adult entertainment! Worried that there may be objectionable sequences in your porno? Not if there isn't any porno to begin with! Let's just end the industry right now and everyone will be safe. No dicks, no cunts, no tits, no ass, no problems. There's are solution right there. STOP ALL PORN!!!
Your points are well-taken, and it looks like we agree about fear causing the problem. Where we diverge is at whom to vent our rage about what's going on. As you probably know, I have been quite "vocal" about the edits that have been made to many classic porn titles on DVD (and VHS since the late-80s). I deplore the situation, as well, and am holding on for dear life to my original VHS copies of these old classics. Meanwhile, you ought to understand that any company legitimately purchasing the rights to a title also purchases the right to edit or alter it in subsequent releases. In this case, I strongly suspect that the master tape NuTech acquired had already been edited by whoever acquired the rights from the original owner (Harold Lime Productions?). Also, see, further down in this forum, the discussion about VCA's future release of "Pamela Mann" on DVD. Same thing -- the master VCA is using was already edited (by them? -- I don't know) back in the late 80s or early 90s.
Your assertion that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" (originally from FDR, by the way, although JFK may have quoted it) is laudable and may be true in an ideal world; however, all one has to do is look at what happened to people like Hal Freeman and his company to see how such idealism plays out in the real world. (Moderator: Please help me and give us a link here that points to a lengthy discussion in this forum a couple of months ago with a porn studio head, explaining his legal/business requirements and concerns in the current political atmosphere.)
I think you've already reached the logical conclusion in your final paragraph, no matter which way it cuts. In the current situation, either through outright repression or the fear thereof, unless something changes, porn might easily go away! In my case, as long as I know that edits have been made (and I fully agree with you that the studios MUST be made to indicate somewhere on the packaging that edits have been made!), I'll decide whether or not to buy the item. Meanwhile, there's a lot of worthwhile stuff being done that doesn't need editing at all. I'd hate to "throw the baby out with the bathwater," after all, so I'd rather see things as they are than not at all. That said, I agree with you that the current situation sucks!
Larry Flint is unique and I don't think we have someone like him with guts against all the facists and hypocrites anymore in the porn business. If porn means free speech. In current situation, I don't we have much of freedom of speech left in this country, maybe we are slightly better than China.
Quite a lively discussion, although the thread did eventually degenerate into a pissing match. Speaking of which, whatever happened to that guy from OGV? He isn't still sulking is he?
It was also an interesting reminder that Wit promised us there would be notification on the sleeves of future VCA DVDs, stating clearly if any edits had been made. A bold decision, except that they've done absolutely nothing of the sort. When VCA released a censored version of Barbara Broadcast, they had the perfect opportunity to put their new policy into practice. Instead, they chose to made a big deal about reinstated scenes which should never have been removed in the first instance, completely neglecting to mention the footage left on the cutting room floor. No great surprise to me, but worth noting nevertheless.
Are you listening? The Wanderer has a good point! The lengthy examination of the "Broadcast" and "Beethoven" edits posted here and on RAME may have been beneficial to the folks who frequent these parts, but don't do much for the rest of the buying public! You've already admitted in the "Pamela Mann" thread that the master you're using is edited -- so, how about starting with "Alexandra" and "Pamela Mann" to put some sort of notice on the package when the contents have been edited "to fit your current political climate" or some such? I really think it'll be a "win-win" situation for you -- Those who really care about non-edited material, like Black Coffee, will be grateful that you at least warned them, rather than tried to hide the fact and rip them off. Those who don't care, or who have never seen the original, "theatrical release" version will buy the title anyway. And meanwhile, there'll always be folks like myself around who care enough to do the comparisons (if they have the original versions) and then report to ADT and RAME about what's still there and what's not! How about it? You've talked the talk -- it's time to start walking the walk!
Thank you, Greybeard for letting me know this thread was running.
There are two seperate issues at work here. The first is more a matter of preservation than censorship. As Greybeard pointed out, many titles that exist today have been altered by who-knows-who and who-knows-why over the years. There is no Academy of Adult Film and Sceineces to presrve or catalogue the present, let alone the past.
We have detailed edit notes for changes made to titles in 1992 as a result of VERY real litigation and VERY real prison time and VERY real millions of dollars in fines. These changes were not made out of fear, but actual government intervention.
We are able to review those notes and are starting to label applicable titles with "Revised from original - circa 1992". This process will begin with PAMELA and ALEXANDRA.
The only reason PAMELA is recieving the label, however, is because Greybeard inquired about a scene. There are NO edit notes for this title. We changed nothing from the master we have. The scene, though, is not there. Unfortunately, the scene was somehow lost before we ever got a hold of it.
So, yes, it is a sorry reality that censorship does exist-
-I digress a moment for a brief story. 2 weeks ago, PRIME TIME LIVE was here and interviewed VERONICA HART. She gave a great answer to one of the questions, but the producer asked Veronica to rephrase it without using the word "SEX". They couldn't use the quote for simply saying the "S" word...-
Anyway, the point is that we will take responsibility for changes we have had to make, but sometimes (and in some ways more tragic than censorship)time takes its own toll. And that is a sad reflection of how the Adult Industry is regarded by society.
Applause! Applause! You're a man (person? -- don't know what gender "Wit" stands for!) of your word, and I'm sure I speak for many of us fans of classic porn when I thank you for your decision! As some clothing discounter is often heard to say, "An informed consumer is a better/happier consumer" (or something like that). You're making an excellent product even better, and we really appreciate your having heard and reacted to our concerns!
One question as regards "Pamela Mann" -- How long has VCA owned the video rights to the title? The reason I ask is that I seem to remember viewing a VCA VHS copy of the title some years ago which looked great, but had the same scene I mentioned edited out even then. I can't remember whether that was pre-1992 or not, but even so, if my memory is correct, you (VCA) have owned the title for a while and might possibly have made the original edit. On the other hand, it could have been the fault of whoever produced the edited master and neglected to include and/or file the edit logs and/or decision lists once the thing was in the can. If memory serves, VCA has owned a number of the old Audubon/Crescent Films Henry Paris titles since the mid-80s or so (enabling you to at least partially restore some of the cuts you had made back then to "Barbara Broadcast" for its DVD release!). Anyhoo, my curiosity is aroused -- sure would appreciate any light you might be able to shed!
Meanwhile -- thanks again for taking the "high road" on labeling the DVDs. Check with your marketing people about doing a press release about this new policy -- it shows that VCA not only cares about the quality of its product, it also has the guts to play straight with its consumers!
