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All Forums > Star Crossed > Star Crossed Forum Page 881 > A Tough Question
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futureofporn
Member


658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 1:53AM
I was going over a list of pornstars that had died. I'm sure that we have all seen them. It is sad to see a list of anything related to death, but still going over the list something puzzled me. If you were to read an obituary you wouldn't see nearly as many suicides or bizarre deaths. I read way too many times about stars that had a self-inflicted gun shot, or an overdose on pills, or had jumped off of a balcony. I have to ask why? Is this just a coincidence or is there something more?
It also brings up another interesting point when you talk about commonalities in the industry. What percentage of stars were molested as children? We heard on the ABC special about how Bella Donna was molested as a child. I hear a lot on DVDs when they do interviews like in Red Light, the girl will say her first sexual experience was when she was 14 and the girl was 35. It does seem like a lot of the girls in this industry had sex with much older men when they were very young. Maybe to them it was consentual, but in any case its rape. Statutory or not.
It can be a very sad topic, and at times gives the industry a bad rap, but maybe its just too overwhelming to overlook.

So, are suicide deaths just a coincidence?
And, are a lot of these stars molested and raped as children?

Topic Moved by - morbidthoughts on Mar 18 2003

simonster
Member

132 Posts
1/02
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 2:08AM
don't you think you're painting with a VERY broad brush here? hope this is not coming as a disappointment, but there might just be a majority of people being happy working in the pornbiz and not having been molested as a child, but doing it because they want to. yes, of course there's a percentage of girls (and guys) in the biz who actually have had awful experiences like that, but also in the rest of society. think about it, why is this instant connection people draw from porn to traumatizing sexual events? is it because they simply take it for impossible for a healthy grown-up to be doing something as 'perverted' as porn? btw, we read too many times about 'regular' people killing themselves as well, i guess.
futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 2:15AM
I defintely agree and disagree with you simonster.
On one hand, there are a lot of people in other walks of life who have been molested and that commit suicide. And there are a number of people in porn that arent molested. But I would disagree and say that the percentage of molested people in porn is higher than MOST industries.
morbidthoughts All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Big cats scare me but...
3627 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 2:23AM
Ummm obituaries usually don't mention the cause of death. Some of them hint at things like "You were taken away from us young" or "After a long fight..." but you don't seriously think that obits will have such things as "Thank you for ruining my goddamn chair when you splattered pieces of your brain on it."

As for teenagers having sex with sleazy older men... We've had statutory rape laws since... forever... and for a reason. But not like it's enforced or anything.

I think any porn star dysfunction are just a sample of what is prevalent out there today except there are still some people who look the other way unless confronted with the facts.

tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 2:49AM
You may be right. BTW, the ABC Primetime special was the FIRST time I had ever heard Belladonna speak of being molested, and I had thought that I had heard MANY stories both good and bad from her past.

As for the suicide rate, it would be interesting to see the suicide rate for people in porn who had done at least 5 movies compared to the suicide rate in, say, the music industry for people who had released at least 1 album. I don't know how they would compare, I just think it would be interesting.

 
futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 4:29AM
I was just thinking about the same thing. The only person I could come up with was Kurt Cobain. Obviously, there are more than just him. A lot of times its maybe drummers or some unrecognizeable name in an unrecognizeable band.

I tread lightly on the subject of molestation and suicide because I know its a sensitive subject. However, I do think that there are a substantial number of women in porn that do have extremely low self-esteems and are looking for a father figure to love them...something along those lines.

ATM Card
Member

16 Posts
2/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 9:19AM
This is just a guess, but I would say the decision to become a porn performer is made 9 times out of 10 with a muddled mind to begin with. It seems to me that you'd have to be at least a little self destructive to have images of you captured forever doing things that are going to alienate you from much of society and might very well close doors of oppurtunity for you down the road. True, there are some very smart careerists in this business, but many are painfully naive and shortsighted. And I don't think anyone can deny that an ever greater segment of the biz is built around using up the naive and discarding them once they get wise, like so much fuel for the furnace. It's a nasty business that can take its toll. You can argue that other businesses are nasty, too, but to have semen splattered images of you floating around long after you've been disposed of as a viable commodity is a quirk unique to porn.


Edited by - ATM Card on 3/18/2003 9:20:01 AM

PornoBoy
Member

145 Posts
7/02
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 11:42AM
Tricia brings up an interesting point...I think the suicide rate in the OVERALL Entertainment industry (including movies, music, writers, etc.) would be overall higher than in most other industries...probably some link between creativity and depression.

Now excuse me, while I go sulk...

YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 11:57AM
I'm not convinced that the suicide rate for adult performers is any higher than the population at large. If it is, then it would still be very difficult to establish a cause/effect relationship between working in the sex industry and increased risk for suicide. The issue is complex enough that only a correlation could be determined, at most.

For example, consider this article from Columbia University, which states that suicide attempts occur most commonly in people aged 20–24. I don't have statistics handy, but I think a large portion of female porn stars might fall into that age range. Even so, it's probably not the age per se that puts people at risk. According to this article (and others I have read), the risk factors for suicide are:
• psychiatric illness (esp. affective disorders and substance abuse)
• social adjustment problems
• serious medical illness
• living alone
• recent bereavement
• personal or family history of suicide attempt
• family history of completed suicide
• divorce or separation
• unemployment

Please note that a history of sexual abuse is not included in the list of risk factors.

Nice. As someone who lost her father to a self-inflicted gunshot wound (and yes, he was prominent enough in the community that his suicide made the front page of the newspaper as well as the local evening news), I found the phrasing of that remark to be rather insensitive. However, I agree with your point. It is true that obits rarely mention the cause of death. So it's easy to assume that suicide rates are higher in people in highly visible professions simply because those are the ones who get the media coverage.

Edited by - YogaGrrl on 3/18/2003 12:24:43 PM

futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 1:12PM
Most of the obituaries that I have read do show the ages of people though. Rarely is there anybody under 70 and I would doubt that people over 70, or over 50 for that matter, are committing suicide.

I dont think that porn leads to suicide. Its more like people who have extremely low self-esteem become pornstars, and after they find out that the porn world doesnt fill that hole in their heart, they become even more depressed. So, its not porns fault, they are more like a warning sign, IMO.

How many other pornstars would break down during an ABC interview? If BellaDonna was being sincere during that interview, then it would be interesting to see an ABC interview on every notable star in the industry, and to see how many of them have these skeletons in their closets.

I wish that 100 percent of pornstars do porn because they just love sex and money, but I dont think thats the case.

assluvr69
Member

133 Posts
3/03
Posted - Mar 18 2003 : 2:15PM
Regarding the ABC interview, I definitely think ABC was trying to portray a skewered view, to uphold the porn industry as shady, by interviewing Bella Donna. I wonder why they don't interview someone like Nina Hartley or Marilyn Chambers?
futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 4:42PM
Well, how do we know that Nina Hartley or Marilyn Chambers werent molested as children? We dont. And I couldnt or wouldnt assume that they were, but you never know, they could have a closet full of skeletons. I think that maybe ABC exploited every tear out of Bella Donna that they could, but that doesnt mean she is still "okay"
YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 5:18PM
Futureofporn, what is it that you hope to accomplish with this thread?

Your comments here, and also in this locked thread, seem to be stating that many porn stars are in some way inadequate to cope with life, either intellectually or emotionally. Your line of questioning here is based on premises that are very weak. You have not established that porn stars have a higher rate of suicide than the population at large. You have not provided evidence that porn stars have a higher rate of history of sexual abuse than the population at large (even though I personally agree that it's not unlikely). You have not even shown that there is a link between molestation and suicide.

It's obvious that you didn't read the article that I provided, or you never would have written that you "doubt people over 70, or over 50 for that matter, are committing suicide." It says right there in the second paragraph that men over the age of 65 have the highest rate of completed suicide (as opposed to attempted suicide).

We need to please keep this discussion fact-based and not perpetuate negative stereotypes. If you continue to make speculations about which porn stars may or may not have been molested, I will ask the moderator of this forum to lock the thread, as I don't see that these types of conjectures can serve any positive purpose.

FastForward
Member

60 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 7:07PM
YogaGrrl: First off, please accept my sympathies for your loss.

In a 2001 article, the American Psychological Association in a 2001 article noted three occupational clusters with statistically significant elevated rates of suicide: 1) white male physicians; 2) black male security staff (including supervisors, crossing guards, police, protective service occupations, but not correctional institution occupations); and 3)white female painters, sculptors, craft-artists and artist printmakers.

Porn stars were not mentioned.

However, that's not to dismiss the possibility that suicide may be more prevalent among pornstars than the general population. CDC pegs the overall suicide rate at about 1 in 10,000. The IAFD database lists about 25 suicides in a database of 32,754, a little over 7 of every 10,000. I suppose there's a headline grabber in "porn stars 7 times more likely to die of suicide," but it's also true that for every one that does, about 1,430 do not.

If all childhood rape survivors went into porn, 1 in 10 women would be fucking on camera. One out of 5 women is raped in her lifetime, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. One out of two victims experiences this before the age of 18. Family members, most often fathers/stepfathers, are the perps in over half the cases. Obviously, not all such victims are in porn, but I can't say that they are or are not disproportionately represented. I do have to agree that this is not the healthiest of reasons to be in porn, but at the same time, I hope those that are have sent tapes to all of pervo-Duddy's upstanding church and business associates. He deserves no less.


futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 7:21PM
YogaGrrl
#1-You're right. I did not read that article. I didn't read it, because those numbers are not important to me. Unless it talks about pornstars, it doesn't have relation to the topic I was hoping to discuss.
I did not start this topic to piss anybody off. I started it because I think it's important to look at. I started it after reading the list of deaths of pornstars and seeing lots of suicides. It just surprised me okay? None of them died of old age. A few died of cancer. It was just a surprise to me and I wanted to bring it up to see what other people thought. I was asking to see if other people think that pornstars commit suicide and have a history of sexual abuse.
#2-I think there is a small problem on this forum. I never tell anybody that their opinion is wrong. I never tell anybody that their opinion is stupid. I dont call people names. I only put my opinion out there and have rebuttle arguments. And I feel like Im being attacked for it. Not that anybody called me stupid or called me names, but people might as well. I wish people would just put their own opinion out and not trash mine because you disagree.
On that note, I still love writing on this forum and wouldn't want to do anything to keep me from being heard on this website. If I offended you in some way Yogagrrl, or anyone else, Im sorry. I only wanted to talk about a topic having to do with porn on a porn forum.
 
futureofporn
Member

658 Posts
1/03
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 7:30PM
Just for people to have a discussion.
I think that there are women and men in porn who have really low self-esteems, maybe bi-polar disease, or maybe some other emotional problems...Just like in other walks of life. Im not saying that all porn stars are dumb and weak. If thats the way it comes through, then its just a lack of proper communication.
Im not as good at finding those types of statistics and articles as you are. I only express my opinion and possibilities. Is there a link between molestation and suicide? I dont think that being molested can help. It certainly would be detrimental to any young person to be treated in that manner. I dont think that every girl who gets molested goes into porn, just like I dont think that every girl in porn has been molested. I think that a small percentage of women molested do adult entertainment, and a larger percentage of women in the adult entertainment have been molested. In My OPINION.
Im not trying to make any negative stereotypes. Only asking what other people think OF these POSSIBLE stereotypes.
I really doubt that is necessary. I never said that any porn star was molested except for Bella Donna after she confessed it. The other 2 girls, I was only saying...we dont know.
YogaGrrl
self-removed user

757 Posts
12/01
Posted - Mar 19 2003 : 7:37PM
Fair enough, futureofporn. I appreciate that you clarified that, because it was not originally clear to me where you were coming from.
That's what I meant by fact-based discussion. Thank you for looking that up, FastForward.



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