A Trannies Really Dudes?

Author	Post
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:09AM I thought I'd start this thread for Tobias and Bootymeister to continue their conversation about whether or not trannies really count as dudes or chicks. Please keep all further conversations regarding this question to this particular thread instead of starting it up whenever someone asks a questions about trannies elsewhere on the forum. Similar to the IR threads, let's try and keep this conversation to one thread so we're not derailing others with the same argument over and over again. I'll get the ball rolling: In pornoworld I don't watch tranny flicks so I don't really care if they are 'really' dudes or not. In day-to-day life I figure if someone wants to be called a woman or guy and goes to the trouble of 'transitioning' then I'll respect their wishes. Edited by - BlackSix on Feb 17 2010 [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:27AM It could have been a poll... But I see your point. Do you make a distinction between pre-op and post-op transsexuals? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:30AM Not in real life, since I don't see them naked I can't tell the difference. [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:32AM Yeah sure but I was talking in theory, like I don't think post-op TS are dudes anymore, whereas I think pre-op TS are still dudes. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:37AM Dudes with boobs. [Link]

BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:38AM Or Chicks with Dicks? [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:44AM Chicks with dicks, I'm thinking more of Drag Kings... [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:48AM Reminds me of that great song by Bitch and Animal "Drag King Bar" : When I walked in at quarter to eight Well I thought that I might be straight At the drag kind bar last night It's unlike me to look at boys When the girls are packing toys I can dig that scene all right Click to expand [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:49AM I think I just derailed another thread, sorry... [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 5:57AM I couldn't find the original song on youtube but I did find these two cute lesbians dancing to it. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 6:47AM I think it depends on how you define gender. If you define it based solely on DNA, then I don't see that it's possible, biologically, for a person to ever change the gender they were born with, no matter how much they alter their bodies or how they present themselves. This would be the biological reality. However, in terms of the social reality, that varies (some people accept transgendered individuals completely and some don't at all). There are also degrees of acceptance. For example, you might respect the wishes of a woman who used to be a man and treat that person as a female up to a point, but you might draw the line at becoming romantically involved with such a person. [Link]
NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 8:41AM "Are Trannies Really Dudes?" Yes [Link]
torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 9:19AM Isn't the allure of tranny porn (besides porn drift) for men: these are ultra feminized wommen with the sex drives of men? I could possibly see myself dating a tranny (not a transvestite) with a couple conditions: no wigs, don't come over with 5 o'clock shadow, don't leave the toilet seat up and don't expect me to suck cock or take it in the ass Ultimately where shemales have a hard time passing is in their male voice and large hands. Are they working on voice feminzation as part of becoming a tranny? John Burdett talks about this in one of his Bangkok detective books that feature Thai trannys. The female voice of Vaniity for example is what makes her so desirable IMO Especially as regards to porn, if you demand anal as I do, tranny porn delivers. And for trannyphobes I would recommend the Rocco Omar Galanti "buddy" movie a Trans Named Desire. Have some great male on tranny (the best coupling) and Rocco fucking (real girls) Juliana Pires and others. There is a subplot of unrequited love between handsome french actor Jean Valjean and a model looks quality tranny named Patrizia Sereia. But the best scene is near the beginning where Omar has three hot brazliians lined up on a couch and eats them. He gets to cute tranny Fabiane Spears (Britney Spears lookalike); he recoils but she's like "what's the problem" and he goes after her too. Unique set up, good hot movie with constant sex of all varieties. [Link]
LubeNLuv Senior Member 1854 Posts 3/06	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 9:27AM Just my opinion which doesn't count for anyone other than me, but here goes.... Until they remove their dicks, they are still dudes. Maybe transitional dudes but bolt-ons don't make you female anymore than wearing a fur coat makes me a bear. Once they remove their dicks, I can accept that they are female. Fabricated female, perhaps, but females nonetheless. [Link]
Mojo Deactivated User 1223 Posts 9/03	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 10:33AM Better question still, why do “straight” guys want to see guys being fucked up the ass by a trannie? If I’m going to want to see a trannie film at all I’d want to see GIRLS getting fucked by trannies. But then, I’m not a faggot who enjoys watching guys getting rogered in the ass by anything. [Link]

torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 11:35AM ^This tranny movie buff doesn't. Those are the least appealing scenes and the ones I usually skip past. I watch porn "voyeuristically", so if I'm identifying with the male, I want to see him get sucked and fuck b/c that's what I would do if I ever so fortunuate to hook up with someone like Vaniity or Bianaca Freire. Don't like nor watch tranny porn with subordinate "males" anymore than I would watch cuckhold movies where the emasculated husband eats the creampie or is forced to suck a big black dude. That's not my viewing experience. In my book tranny porn is personality/package driven. A beautiful passable TS fucking a dude is tolerable only b/c I'm fixated on "her". [Link]
Mojo Deactivated User 1223 Posts 9/03	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 11:44AM Sorry, didn't mean to seem personal. I actually saw your post after I posted. I just don't get trannie on male porn, that's all. And I agree, another porn pet hate of mine is cuckold for the same reasons as you said, especially seeing as those aren't even the partners of the girls being fucked! Edited by - Mojo on 2/17/2010 11:45:04 AM [Link]
kaiser1one Member Dark Avatar 142 Posts 10/07	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 12:19PM Better question still, why do “straight” guys want to see guys being fucked up the ass by a trannie? If I’m going to want to see a trannie film at all I’d want to see GIRLS getting fucked by trannies. But then, I’m not a faggot who enjoys watching guys getting rogered in the ass by anything. Click to expand I hate seeing guys taking it up the ass. I'll watch fems and trans, but I hate seeing the guy taking a porking or sucking on a cock. I especially hate it when I DO see this happening, they look like such bitches while doing it. [Link]
taylor_swift_tasty_feet Member 367 Posts 1/10	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 12:25PM If a person was born a male a male they will die. No amount of surgery will ever change that.Sorry.Look I get it,somtimes I wish I was a hot girl instead of an ugly man as my life would be easier but some things can NOT be changed. I hold no hatred for trannies,ETC but I do NOT view them as true females.How can I? [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 12:35PM Pontus Maximus wrote: I think it depends on how you define gender. If you define it based solely on DNA, then I don't see that it's possible, biologically, for a person to ever change the gender they were born with, no matter how much they alter their bodies or how they present themselves. This would be the biological reality. However, in terms of the social reality, that varies (some people accept transgendered individuals completely and some don't at all). There are also degrees of acceptance. For example, you might respect the wishes of a woman who used to be a man and treat that person as a female up to a point, but you might draw the line at becoming romantically involved with such a person. Click to expand I was taught waaaay back in my "Sexuality and Society" class that gender has nothing to do with DNA. Gender is a social construct - whatever a community believes signals femininity or masculinity: long hair vs. short hair, dress vs. pants, high voice vs. low voice, make-up vs. none, big fake boobs vs. flatter chest, etc. This definition stuck with me. It's sex (male or female) that is determined by DNA, but even that is rife with controversy because well, we just don't know enough. It's not all XX or XY. And if you throw reproductive capabilities in there (ovum, sperm) than you can never be transsex; cutting off your balls is not gonna give you ovaries. But then what about women born with testes and men born with ovaries? People are desperate for this cut and dry definition and it's just not gonna happen. I think this is a situation where the English language is failing us. I can refer to a tranny as whatever they like (male or female), but as soon as they get naked unless they are post-op, I can't continue - they are tranny to me, a category unto themselves. Is there something wrong with that? Why do we have to shove them in either end of the spectrum? They don't belong there. They are literally in transition, right? [Link]
MrTibbs Member 372 Posts 7/09	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 12:39PM I would venture to guess that any guy who is not a consumer of tranny porn himself will predictably assert that transexuals are 100% dudes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think you have to be into it to see it any differently. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 1:08PM Savoy wrote: It's sex (male or female) that is determined by DNA, but even that is rife with controversy because well, we just don't know enough. It's not all XX or XY. And if you throw reproductive capabilities in there (ovum, sperm) than you can never be transsex; cutting off your balls is not gonna give you ovaries. But then what about women born with testes and men born with ovaries? Click to expand The online Merriam-Webster dictionary indicates that the words 'gender' and 'sex' can be used interchangeably (but then, what do they know?). Anyway, what I was referring to was the XX/XY chromosome thing. Savoy, assuming you were unattached, would you be open to a sexual relationship with a post-op transsexual who, in terms of physical appearance, you found sexually attractive? [Link]
Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 1:34PM Pontus Maximus wrote The online Merriam-Webster dictionary indicates that the words 'gender' and 'sex' can be used interchangeably (but then, what do they know?). Click to expand That's what I mean by the English language failing us regarding this topic. Although I much prefer 2b definition: "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex." That's what I'm using as definition of gender. Anyway, what I was referring to was the XX/XY chromosome thing. Click to expand And I meant to convey that there are variants within that XX/XY. Not everyone is 100% male or female. So the very notion of strictly male vs. female sex is a construct. Doctors across the nation work to "fix" ambigious genitalia as quick as they can. I was astounded at the number of procedures performed on newborns to make them adhere to male or female definition - irregardless of what's happening chromosome-wise. Mother Nature isn't so strict in her definitions and we work so hard and get so angry trying to stuff everything within two categories. Savoy, assuming you were unattached, would you be open to a sexual relationship with a post-op transsexual who, in terms of physical appearance, you found sexually attractive? Click to expand Are you trying to prove that I'm a "trannylover" and therefore my opinions aren't relevant? So I will preface my answer with this: I have never had sex with a tranny. I have never watched tranny porn (other than a few seconds here or there while internet surfing). I'm going to answer your question as I would any hypothetical fuck scenario presented to me: Depends on the individual. edited to add link Edited by - savoy on 2/17/2010 1:36:18 PM [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 1:40PM +1 to everything Savoy has said. Gender and sex are two different things, both are a construct, and transgender people do not fit into the simplistic binary our society has anxiously put in place. They transgress gender. [Link]
LubeNLuv Senior Member 1854 Posts 3/06	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 2:53PM I don't think society is "anxious" about enforcing sexual labels. I think trannies are anxious about choosing one. [Link]

Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 2:58PM ^ That's odd, because these threads are populated by people desperately trying to assert that transgender people are male or female, and I don't think these people are transgender themselves. Are you seriously saying that our society wouldn't create categories if trans people weren't so anxious about categorizing themselves? I think you have it backwards. [Link]
Pontus Maximus Senior Member Man of Steel, meet your match. 1346 Posts 9/02	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 4:51PM Savoy wrote: Are you trying to prove that I'm a "trannylover" and therefore my opinions aren't relevant? So I will preface my answer with this: I have never had sex with a tranny. I have never watched tranny porn (other than a few seconds here or there while internet surfing). Click to expand Huh? I'm not trying to prove anything. I just asked you a question. There was no hidden agenda and it wasn't a trap. None of the things you wrote above were on my mind when I posed the question. I'm going to answer your question as I would any hypothetical fuck scenario presented to me: Depends on the individual. Click to expand Cool. That's all I was asking. No need to become so defensive. Cheers. [Link]
LubeNLuv Senior Member 1854 Posts 3/06	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 8:01PM Gore Gore Girl wrote: ^ That's odd, because these threads are populated by people desperately trying to assert that transgender people are male or female, and I don't think these people are transgender themselves. Are you seriously saying that our society wouldn't create categories if trans people weren't so anxious about categorizing themselves? I think you have it backwards. Click to expand I think the only people I ever hear who are desperate about trannies being accepted as one gender or another are: A) People who feel weird about watching the flicks and need re-assurance they aren't "gay" - which means they are already a subset of the culture as 1) they watch trannie flicks and 2) they are worried about their sexuality and need someone to give them a label so they can sleep better at night -or- B) Trannies who INSIST I recognize them as whatever they are destined to be or have become Really, walk up to the average person on the street and ask this question....see how many people give you "Who gives a fuck?" responses? I bet its far more than the other way around. Edited by - lubenluv on 2/17/2010 8:11:47 PM [Link]
redhead Member Not so redhead these days... 718 Posts 1/08	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 8:06PM Savoy wrote: I was taught waaaay back in my "Sexuality and Society" class that gender has nothing to do with DNA. Gender is a social construct - whatever a community believes signals femininity or masculinity: long hair vs. short hair, dress vs. pants, high voice vs. low voice, make-up vs. none, big fake boobs vs. flatter chest, etc. This definition stuck with me. Click to expand Touche. [Link]
Cerebral Jedi Senior Member I don't trust men who don't like big tits. 1067 Posts 12/04	Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 10:20PM BlackSix wrote: I'll get the ball rolling: Click to expand [Link]
loop Senior Member 1409 Posts 9/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 2:54AM i really like tranny porn , though i hate seeing a guy being fucked in the ass (that's a turn off). [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 3:32AM While you're at it, here's another exercise to engage in: Intepret this image and post your responses. It will shed about as much (or as little) light on the question "Are trannies really dudes?" as your answer to the question "Are trannies really dudes?". Just as with the other exercise, however, it will shed a lot of light on you. [Link]
ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:01AM Savoy deserves medals and shit for being so awesome. [Link]
ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:03AM Bob: I see insects and sea creatures. [Link]
Jacco All-Star Member "liable to deprave and corrupt" 2673 Posts 5/04	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 7:58AM Bob: I see coloured spots. Jacco [Link]

LubeNLuv Senior Member 1854 Posts 3/06	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 8:12AM Click to expand I see Jesus. I now proclaim this thread as holy. [Link]
taylor_swift_tasty_feet Member 367 Posts 1/10	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 11:16AM I see sea type creatures.Maybe a couple flowers. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 1:28PM That's a picture of what I saw when I was drinking last night. [Link]
Mojo Deactivated User 1223 Posts 9/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 2:17PM Speaking of trannies, have there ever been any trannies in porn who started out as girls and had reverse ops (been given dicks)? Be interesting if they did any scenes with normal girls. [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 2:41PM I like the way you think. [Link]
Dubious_Leftovers Senior Member And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:04PM Bob wrote: Intepret this image and post your responses. Click to expand Yeah, straight away I more or less saw this: Heaven fucking help me... [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:33PM I doff my hat to BlackSix for some great shit-stirring -- the magic element in his question being the word "really". It elevates the discourse to the level of metaphysics and epistemogogy -- and perhaps even to the search for God. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:37PM I see a woman, arms akimbo, in a fuzzy, red cardigan sweater with spikey blue epaulets. The sweater is opened to reveal her C-cup boobs in a blue bra. Unfortunately, she has a skeleton neck and a skull where her head should be. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:39PM I can't actually see her skull, which is above the image and out of frame -- I'm just extrapolating from her skeleton neck. [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:40PM Now really, folks, isn't this exercise a lot more fun? [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:58PM I just noticed that this thread is not entitled, "Are Trannies Really Dudes?" Rather, it's entitled, "A Trannies Really Dudes?" This leads me to two questions: 1. What about B Trannies? 2. Why did I initially misread the thread title? There's another ink-blot test to ponder! [Link]
ma meeshka Iconoclastic Member 3939 Posts 4/06	Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 7:22AM I think it's past your bed time... [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 7:30AM Bob wrote: Intepret this image and post your responses. Click to expand This is obviously an abstract picture of an open vagina! Edited by - bobcat on 2/19/2010 7:30:58 AM [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 7:48AM As for this topic; A "tranny" is male! A "tranny" and a guy having sex in a movie is gay porn. If you watch gay porn and enjoy it, you are gay! If you don't agree, you are in denial! Edited by - bobcat on 2/19/2010 7:48:37 AM [Link]
Mojo Deactivated User 1223 Posts 9/03	Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 12:09PM Bobcat wrote: A "tranny" is male! Click to expand Not necessarily. A tranny could be a girl that’s been given a dick too. Although I guess it's rare (and harder to do) I expect it's been done in the past, a lez wanting to go one step further and give her lady lovers a bit of meat. I totally agree with the rest of your post though, in the context you mean at least. Edited by - Mojo on 2/19/2010 12:18:02 PM [Link]
Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03	Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 3:54PM ma meeshka wrote: I think it's past your bed time... Click to expand It's always past my bedtime when I post on ADT. Do you think I would do this when I'm supposed to be awake? [Link]