We're soon going to be adding our first European-based retailer to the price search. (buyeuroporn.com) While working on setting them up there's a few technical hurdles to handle. I figured it would be best to ask for input here.
First question: Many of the titles available will be non-US versions. i.e. no sex acts edited out and potentially different running times, menus, picture quality, etc. How should we differentiate these items in the price search? I was thinking that adding a new catergory of "non-US version" would do the trick but wanted to be sure first.
Second question: initially all prices will be converted to US$. Is this a problem?
I think it's a good idea to make a note when a title will be a non-US version, as it can be either a "good thing" (unedited) or a "bad thing" (extras stripped out). Letting people know these things is always good.
Hopefully there won't be too many grey areas as in the recent DVSX fiasco, but I suppose they can be resolved on a case-by-case basis.
Having prices in $US isn't a problem per se, but makes them only useful as a rough guide, as I and most of this forum's regulars are outside the US and US$ would not play any part in the actual transactions.
This could also present some problems on your end unless the exchange rates are updated at least daily. Perhaps adding the "native" price in parathesis next to the US$ would be an idea? Or if not, a note stating what currency the native price is in. (Euros, GBP, AU$, etc).
The Australian online stores are typically horribly expensive, so I couldn't truthfully recommend any of them. (And I doubt many/any of them would appreciate ADT's meddling into their "protected" market).
The only ones that come to mind are the ones which constantly come up in this forum - Orgazmik, Erodvd.. um.. I can't think of any others offhand..
I think we'll be able to indicate that a item is not the same as the US release. But I don't think we'll have any idea if it's a good thing or a bad thing. We won't know if it's the same content or not. If we just indicate "Euro Version" or something to that effect will it be enough?Prices will update on our end as frequently as three times per day. I have thought about doing an exchange rate calculator but I don't think that's the best route to go. The brief amount of research I've done seems to indicate that prices on many sites are not a direct exchange rate function when switching from Euros to Dollars (or other currencies.) At least this is the case on a few store's sites. When I saw that I figured it would just be best to have the store provide the prices.
We will definitely include the native currency info on the store's store info page here on ADT. I haven't thought about integrating it into the detailed price search results. I'll take a look at that to see how I might be able to do it.
Sorry that's what I was getting at - if a title is known to be a different version, the buyer then has the option to find out themselves what differences there are, but at least they have that knowledge that the title will be a different edition. I wasn't meaning that ADT would or should (or could!) know what the differences are in each title with a Euro/international/different version.Yep I agree with you there, and it looks ike you've got it under control from your next paragraph.Hm.. how about having the actual price search look up the current US dollar prices that you are using/are given, and having the native price in parathesis? Maybe with a note or simple symbol that denotes if they charge only in their own currency or if they also charge in dollars.
Without using html to format it and change text sizes, I'm thinking something like someone does a search on "Burning Butts 12" and it comes up as
Burning Butts 12 europorn : US$18.50 (15 Euros) *Store charges in US$ or Euros* pornland : US$22.50 (18 Euros) *Store charges only in Euros* UKpornlshop: US$22.00 (12 UKPounds) *Store charges in US$, Euros or UKP*
kind of thing.. even if you have to use icons to save space from all that text..
I'll need to think about this one for a bit. I'm working on the assumption that a store will provide us with prices. I would need to develop a system to enable them to provide a variable number of prices and currencies. I think it could get confusing.
I do like the idea of using an icon or icons next to the price to indicate that alternate currencies are an option. The default is assumed to be US$, but we can have one or more icons for other types but not actually display the converted $ values.
I have multicurrency engine. My main currency is EURO (billing also charges in Euro). All other curriencies calculated depending on exchange rates established inside of engine. I can show any currency, USD, Eur, Pounds, also i can make mixes like US$18.50 (15 Euros). There is no problem.
This will make ADT's price search far more useful to me , and I doubt I'm the only one . BestDVDx and CyberDVDx would be worth adding if they are any help .Please don't call these Euro versions . If you do nothing else , please don't do that . It's something which really gets on my rag - though possibly no one else%5C%27s - and I'd appreciate if you didn't call them that . EU versions , European versions . There are no Euro versions , just as there are no Ameri versions or Dollar versions . /rant
Well the term "Euro" has been around a lot longer than the currency that bears the name. example.
Though in ADT's situation, looking to the future it may be more useful to simply mark them as "non-US" versions, as the Australian versions of (for example) Evil Angel titles are very definately different to Shiva's ones, and I'm sure the list goes on for other countries and other titles and studios.
Yes , the European football tournament has been called EuroXX for some time now , certainly longer than the Euro currency has been in existence . But that's not really my objection . It all comes down to intent and context . The European football tournament is described in shorthand by other Europeans who love the thing . Euro porn is often a term used by people who go on to make statements like " I can never learn any of their names " , or " they're all the same " . And no I'm not talking about you , Scipio .
As I said , it may well not annoy anyone else but it rubs my rhubarb - and not in a good way . Just words ? But words can have a cumulative effect over time . I think talking about Euro babes instead of bothering to take the time to call them European babes is a sign that they're less important in the mind of the poster . Just my own personal bugbear .
Mercedes Fan. Not talking cars here.... 344 Posts 2/04
Posted - Sep 29 2004 : 6:12AM
First of all I really like the idea of an additional price search for the European users.
Regarding the subject "how to name these versions", I do not care much about the term Euro version, no matter whether it is also our current currency.
Anyway, I would object to the term "Euro"-version (as well as with related terms like "European-version"), because AFAIK this term indicates some additional content that is simply not allowed in US-versions (like fisting and watersports). So IMHO using the term "Euro-version" or any related term would rather confuse than anything else, simply because it may will feed wrong expectations.
So, how to name these? Well, the term "non-US version" may sound a little dull on first read, but I would prefer this. It is not already related to some expectations.
I don't have a preference for what label gets applied to these alternate versions. "Non-U.S. version" might be appropriate but that's not as accurate IMO as something that indicates a European release. Keep in mind that many movies are released in Canada with even less content than the U.S. versions. So calling something 'Non-U.S.' doesn't necessarily imply that there's going to be extra content. Applying a label that's the equivalent intent of "Euro-version" does get that message across.
An alternative approach might be to follow what Titan Media does for some of their releases. They regularly have two different cuts. A full version which is typically called the 'Director's Cut' and theres a different general release version. (The Director's Cut can only be purchase direct from the manufacturer or TLA video but that's not important for this discussion.) Applying the category 'Director's Cut' might be a solution but unfortunately there are already dozens of movies where the title contains the words director's cut which might be confusing.
I'm open to suggestions for an appropriate name. Others that come to mind are: Uncut Edit, Full Version, Go to Jail Version, etc.
One other thing that I would like to clarify is that I have no intention of adding categories like fisting, pissing, shitting, animal fucking, or any other stuff that is currently (or potentially) illegal content in the U.S. We certainly won't display box covers for these items and may possibly not even list them in the price search. (I haven't thought this completely through just yet.) Although this type of stuff is legal elesewhere in the world we simply cannot list it on ADT.
I agree, Lee O, I think it does have a hint of the lazy stereotype about it. This is no doubt due, in my case, to comments posted ad nauseam on RAME by a certain individual who doesn't deserve further publicity. The other side of this is the homogenisation of European culture, but that's another story.
As to the issue of "Euro" versions, this is a fraught topic as some European editions may well be the same as the US, others may have that illict content. The fact is that there is often no such thing as a "Euro" version - different countries have different rules on what's acceptable and therefore you can have different releases in the UK, Italy, Germany, France, Spain etc, and that's not even taking things like language or subtitles etc into account. I'd suggest simply listing the studio and not getting into this area at all might well be wise. As Mr White suggests, this would avoid raising expectations.
FWIW, the term "Eurobabe" to me is a very positive thing. The girls in Sbando's index are way more appealing to me than the majority of their U.S. counterparts. I don't understand the negative connotations that might be attached to such a term.
I agree that listing the studio provides more information to the knowledgeable buyer than "non-US version" does. However, that might become quite a burden.
Have you considered putting flags beside the company names to indicate where they are located? That would clue people in to which stores were non-US and to the possibility of their versions being different without having to deal with whether it was or wasn't the US release. I would think that the price difference is going to stop the casual buyer in the USA from spending money without trying to find out what (s)he's getting into first.
On "Eurobabes", I agree with Drew. I personally don't see it as an inherently disparaging term and also like Drew, my favorite performers have for quite some time been predominantly European. I think that Sbando fella also quite likes and respects his "Eurobabes".
But anyway..
The problem with calling something a "directors cut" or something that implies additional content is that European or various other international cuts of a DVD don't always have extra content and in many cases have less content than a US version.
There was a thread recently where a couple of people ordered RLD titles from Erodvd in a sale and were sent Shiva imprints of the RLD titles. While the feature program was the same, I believe all the extra footage/scenes/etc were cut out. The same is also true for Private and Evil Angel product thats licenced and sold here in Australia. Both have everything but the feature program stripped out, and the Privates are even coded for Region 4(!)
I feel that despite the unexciting name, probably "Non-US Version" would be best as a general term, and ideally as both Gabriel and Hardware suggest, the studio name, though it's understandable if that level of info is hard to include.
One other thing I just thought of, that could be a problem with "studio" is how they're classified by rhe individual stores.. some list (for example) Evil Angel under "Evil Angel", some under "Shiva", and some under a mixture of both. ie a Shiva EA title might be categorised by them under EA since everyone knows the EA name, despite an individual title perhaps being a Shiva imprint. Example again being that Erodvd thing where some titles recieved were European produced Shiva and some were imported-from-the-US RLD.
I guess with "Non-US" we can always ask the retailer and each other in the forum exactly what's on the individual titles or who the specific studios are.
Personally, I think that the biggest issue will be the fact that the same movie is often distributed by multiple companies using different titles depending on the country in which it is being sold.
If it were the same title, but in a different language, that would be one thing. But most of the time these movies have titles that are completely different. Just take a look at the Angelica Bella page on egafd.com to see how many titles are listed as being an "Alternative title" to another movie.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of adding European affiliates to the price search. I just think that this will end up becoming an issue.
Thanks Gabriel , for a moment there I thought I was losing my mind ! Guess this doesn't appear to be an issue to other people , or at least not in this thread .
Bill , aren't most of those different titles from more obscure websites ? If Drew restricted himself to the most high profile sites from European countries there shouldn't be too much of a problem . It's been my experience when searching for Angelica DVDs that the odd names only really occur on out of the way sites I'd never normally use . Some of what I'd consider the better European based sites might be ... CyberDVDx , BestDVDx , AdultDVDx : from France . EroDVD from Holland . Orgazmik from Switzerland . There are probably others I've missed out , but those sites sell mostly the same titles . Besides , I'm no expert on all these sites .
Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00
Posted - Sep 30 2004 : 8:29AM
"Euro Babes" doesn't seem to have a negative connotation OUTSIDE Europe. Being FROM Europe (albeit living in Australia) I understand people from Europe can see negative/racist overtones . Also people rapidly switch from the expression "Euro Babes" to the one of "Euro Sluts"...
I'm not sure the title confusion issue is really with which sites/retailers are involves so much as it is which specific studios they may get a film from - with various free trade laws in place, not to mention the subject matter I can't see it being too unusual to see, say, a Dutch imprint of a title being sold from an Italian site, or vice versa and etcetera.
As for the "Euro" babe discussion running alongside (not meaning to be argumentitive). I'm not sure of the context it's used with in rame, or who uses it (riley?) but I think most of the posters here at ADT use it in an affectionate term more than anything else. Like Jodie Moore being called an "Aussie" instead of an Australian.
As for the "Euro Babes>Euro Sluts" thing, I see it more as a representation of the bullshit mysogony that's sadly a big part of porn in general more than a specifically degrading thing to European women. I just now did a search for "Sluts" in the price search. I thought my computer froze. Anyway, this is what it told me:
Searching for new DVDs with 'sluts' in the title refine this search new search Results limited to 500. Please refine your search. Found 500 new DVDs. Displaying page 1 of 10. jump to page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Anyway, I'll bow out of the "Euro debate" part of this thread now, but certainly agree that Euro Version isn't the label to use here.
I don't understand your stance on this Mr.White. Taking for example Max Hardcore DVD's his "Euro" versions (and they are called exactly that on most stores websites that sell them) do indeed contain things that the US versions don't for eg the watersports stuff and there are those of us that want this sort of material and "Euro" version tells us staright away that this version WILL have all this content intact.
I, for one, therefore definitely very strongly support the defining of NON US/Non "watered down" versions, indeed I see it as essential.
Great idea to do this and I would second www.erodvd.nl being a contender.
One thing I personally would see as being important is that DVD NOT on their original label be highlighted.
An example being the Nighttrips label that seems to release some RLD titles - I have in the past had approx 5 different titles on Nightrips and their picture quality is absoloutely diabolical - I would not pay a penny/cent for one of their movies. I know for one that erodvd do sell some titles on Nighttrips - i think these along with Shiva and other such labels (what is the deal with these btw ? are they given licences from the original studio to release on their behalf ? Are they copies or what ?) should be clearly identified as such
Not necessarily. I've actually seen a case where a single store (Orgazmik) is selling the same movie with two different titles because is came from two different companies from different countries (I can't remember what movie that was).
Often, it's a German company and French company each selling the disc (something makes me thing Goldlight and Colmax are two companies that sometime both have the rights to the same movie with different titles). Also, both Colmax and Dorcel sell a lot of US titles with French names.
You're right of course . The examples which spring to my mind are Mario Salieri titles ( isn't Goldlight his company ? ) , for example - Der Wille des Paten : Roma Connection . Still , those're more or less the only examples I can think of .
The European versions of American movies are more or less obvious in what they came from . The issue I can see though is with content which would be illegal in the US . For example there is a Traci Lords triple feature available on Blue One , and I can't imagine it would be a good idea to add that to a US based search engine . ( with Blue One being a French company I guess the age for model consent must be lower over there )
This is unfortunately an inconvenient issue and happens the longer the more. In most cases you have no chance by looking at the cover if that movie has already been released by another publisher. We do put a remark in the item description if we know it's a rerelease.
In my oppinion this behaviour essentially lowers the value of the film because it is no longer "unique". At least we have convinced companies like Magma and Tabu to put the original name of a movie on the cover. I'm sure there are films around in Europe that are available in more than 3 different shapes (name / cover art).
It's good that Orgazmik have chipped in, because as they mention their site comments wherever possible that, for example, a movie from the French label Colmax is the same as a movie from the Italian Pink'o. As Bill mentions, Colmax and Dorcel, among others, issue French versions of US titles, there are German, Dutch and British labels doing the same, and then there are also reciprocal agreements between producers in different European nations. Therfore, setting aside the issue of permissible content, there's every chance that the same movie will be released by a different company in each of the major European nations, and quite possibly in others besides, with different names.
How feasible it would be for Drew to research this kind of data is difficult to say - all I can suggest is as before, that the movie title is listed with the name of the studio/label, perhaps also with country of issue, and wherever possible to note the different international editions of the same movie.
That's one of the reasons we watch every movie we get before we list it. Sometimes you even get a different title on the boxcover than on the credits, very annoying.
I don't like fucking euros, the currency that is. Strangely, don't mind EuroBabes. We have EuroCups, EuroNews, EuroSport.. why not EuroBabes. What was this thread about.. ? Oh.. never mind.
