Been reading here about the Extreme Associates Case and alot of the comments about how although Rob Black is a scumbag, he needs to win this case. I'd just like to hear more about what Black has done to draw such criticism from everyone. I know his movies are pretty extreme and tasteless to most (including me), but I don't know much else about him. Has he been suspected of other crimes not included in the warrant? Or does he just treat the girls like crap like his movies portray?
Without too much elaboration, here are a few things that I really dislike about Rob Black:
-- Consistently bounced checks and bad business practices. -- Constant and unnecessary "fuck everyone" posturing. -- Lack of respect for the talent (see bounced checks above). -- Lack of respect for the fans. -- Consistantly bad product (independent of content, which isn't for me, the man couldn't produce a decently authored DVD to save his life). -- Lack of respect for the rest of the industry.
So Mike, basically, without having never met the man, you've formed an opinion based on what you've read on the internet.
You talk about "lack of respect" Despite the rosy picture painted by some trade mags and posters on this forum, there isn't a whole lot of "respect" between companies, talent and fans. It's a cut-throat, backstabbing business. The difference is most of it stays off the internet, while Rob aired a lot of the dirty laundry on GeneRossExtreme, in character as Rob Black, with his "constant and unnecessary fuck everyone posturing" I'm not here to say it was right, or that I agreed with it everytime. In fact, that level of circus journalism was one of the factors that led to Extreme's financial crisis it found itself in last year, which ultimately led to me having to start over with Evolution.
As far as bounced checks go, it wasn't like Rob was sitting on a pile of money and just not paying people. As I said, Extreme had a real cash crunch last year and had overextended itself with XPW wrestling expansion and a WAY too large payroll, all while sales were plummeting because of the political climate, and the industry perception that ALL Extreme's movies were legally on the fringe, despite the fact that MOST movies were no worse than anything else available on the market. Rob hasn't produced anything new in months as he is aware that Extreme's reputation is in need of repair and he is catching up on DVD production and all available funds are going towards legal fees and paying off my partnership interest in Extreme to help me fund Evolution. So the issue of bounced checks to talent is moot because new talent is not being used as this time, hence no bounced checks. Also, other than a bad period last year when Extreme's DVD quality was admittedly atrocious, the quality really has improved, but you don't hear about that, because it's become so trendy to bash Extreme.
The point is don't believe everything you read. Base your opinions on informed sources. While I don't wish to shill for Extreme or Rob, I find it somewhat frustrating that people don't realize that someone can learn from their mistakes and improve.
Oh, and Ramsey, Rob "attacked" Stagliano FOUR years ago. Let it go man...
Yeah but somebody attacking your favorite director like that is something you don't forget especially the way he did it. To me it was actually blasphemy but alright, that's all in the past. I hope he wins this trial and I hope Extreme will be back in business and start releasing some more DVD's.
Btw Tom, I don't want to go off-topic but I bought Meat Pushin In The Seat Cushion at Lasersedge a week ago but they don't have it in-stock so I will have to wait before I can see it. I really look forward to it.
Please don't get me wrong Tom. I haven't really formed an opinion of the man behind the Rob Black persona. As you said, I've never met the man, and for the most part, I really try not to express negativity about people based on nothing but second hand sources. The thing is that my thoughts about the man are derived from more than just what I've "read on the internet". You've stated on many occasions that the real Rob Black is a good guy, and I have no reason not to believe that. My dislike is based on the Rob Black persona he has created--how he has represented himself in public both on his videos, and in the Frontline documentary, how other people who've met him, and who I trust have characterized him, and yes, even a little bit of printed media here and there.
The thing is that what you've said here doesn't give me any good reason to like him any more. I totally respect your unwavering defense of your friend. If I were in your position I would be doing the exact same thing, but can you honestly say that if you were in my position that you would be able to look beyond this public Rob Black persona when you have nothing else to go on?
My opinion of Rob is based on his public face. Meeting him in person, outside of porn politics, would be a completely different matter. I would certainly have some questions, but as you say, a face to face meeting would preclude any negative things I've seen or heard about him. I'd put all that aside and make a new evaluation.
The thing is... my opinion doesn't mean shit! It's just not important what I think... I'm sure you know that--and I want you to know that _I_ know it. But for what it's worth, nothing you've said in his defense changes my outlook at this point. Regardless of what he's really like, I think that Rob Black and Extreme Associates have done nothing but harm the industry--and I would just assume see him, and his company, out of it (although, as a free speech advocate, I do reluctantly support him in the fight he's facing in Pennsylvania).
Just one very insigificant guy's "political" opinion if you will. It's not personal--not to him, and not to you. I applaud your defense Tom, and your perspective is a valuable addition to this website. Thanks for your always candid and professional response.
I think Extreme started off well enough, but a lot of the concepts were just plain stoopid (I watched enough of the movies), and outside of Tom's Whack Attacks, and a few odd titles (Miscreants I recall favorably), there just wasn't much I liked. Greg Dark did it all so much better. Bad karma is chasing bad karma. That's all. It will sort itself out, and porn will continue being made. Why? Because porn makes money for rich assholes who give the money to Bush and his asshole friends. The whole hotel/cable deal. They won't want to shut down that pipeline, These are the worst hypocrites alive. And I would go further right now but I don''t wanna get shut down or make the mods uncomfortable, but my feelings towards these people are primal, vicious and punishable by law -- I am certain!
Rob Black at his nastiest is a better human being that John Ashcroft.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Aug 25 2003 : 8:47PM
Tom - It makes me sad to see that you've broken off your business ties with Extreme, but not your personal ones with Rob.
There was a time that I was very much in love with Rob Zicari. And then he started spending the majority of his time living as Rob Black, and I couldn't deal with it. For the rest of my life, I will always love the man that I met in Rochester, New York, but I don't believe he even exists anymore. I wish he could change, but I'm not sure he can. He has so much bitterness inside of him; he doesn't trust anyone. How can someone become a better person if they don't like anyone and can't let go of the past?
From what I can recall, but I'm just a silly old ex-porn girl, I thought the bounced checks went back more than just a year ago. Or maybe I'm just thinking of the outright non-payment to people, with him telling them, 'Go Fuck Yourselves, I don't owe you anything'. Or maybe I'm not going from informed-enough sources.
Rob Black @ AEBN
Posted - Aug 25 2003 : 2:22PM
