Jules Jordan

I think you guys are making too much out of some of DeVoe's rants, and taking some things that he says in the wrong manner.

He seems pretty frustrated, and sometimes is all over the map, but I don't know that he specifically means to be confrontational or dismissive of some of the premier players in the porn game, like Jules Jordan. Devoe makes some valid points, and his observations about the lay of the land in the porn industry don't seem completely fucked up and without merit to me.

I am a fan of both men. Both do a good job and put out quality products. For those of you who don't know, Alexander DeVoe is by most measures, the brightest directorial star at West Coast Productions . WCP has succeeding in carving out a specific niche for itself in the world of porn, James Alexander and his crew work very hard, and they do a credible job of turning out product that appeals to more than just the black market.

But with all of that, they are still not operating on an equal basis with some of the industry giants, like Evil Angel , and don't generally have the resources to match up with them, and other big porn companies, in a number of areas. And sometimes that disparity is reflected in the product, or in the product's customer reach.

If I can conject, I think this is where a lot of DeVoe's frustration lies. At WCP he seems to have the freedom and power to do what he wants, but WCP's resources, profile, and market presence, not to mention DeVoe's impressive personal credentials and background, still aren't quite enough to get his product seen and recognized in a big way. I suppose you can liken it to the big fish in a small pond, trying desperately to get into the bigger pond next door. Or trying to make his little pond bigger.

DeVoe, and a few guys like him, before him, have been making good interracial and all-black porn for a long time, and as soon as the genre blows up, and the big boys get interested, the spoils of all those years of labor don't come to them. It's like twenty five years of rappers scuffling to get their music played and heard by mainstream America, all the while getting shit on by critics and the public, until the music takes hold and becomes fashionable. And then in an instant, a guy like Eminem can buy and sell ALL of them.

I understand that frustration.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 10/6/2004 4:58:51 AM

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I believe Lex has won his share of AVN awards. I can't recall any women of African descent winning AVN's, but I don't keep up all that much. The AVN's is pretty much dominated by American stars of European descent or who are actually European.

I hear you there. The AVN's are alot like the Oscars in that respect.

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Alot of people look towards Jules Jordan with incredible jealousy. Shit, I've been there where other jealous directors denigrate his work while they bask in their own creative poverty. Funny thing is, they don't ever say it to his face but would rather tell everyone how much better they are than JJ. I find these arguments laughable at best.

From my point of view, I don't think there's anything 'groundbreaking' about gonzo except the influences that John Stagliano and Mike John have created adopted by so many directors.

And they weren't loud. They let their work do the talking for them.

I can't deny the influence Mike John has made on the way I shoot things. I shot alot of Internet content before I made a foray into videography and it was one video "Down The Hatch #8" that I watched in full before my first shoot that's still permanently imbedded in my head everytime I shoot. It was and still is the most perfect gonzo I've ever seen.

However, that does not mean I continue to follow the Mike John tradition. Shit, I've worked side by side with Rob Black, Tom Byron, Zupko and Khan Tusion. I would say that's a pretty eclectic group of influences. If you see my movies, love them or hate them, I shoot them in the way I would like to see porno. After all, the only person I'm out to please is myself and hopefully the consumer can get a nut out and understand what I'm trying to do. I'm scatterbrained, disorganized, unprepared, and absolutely inebriated in the way I present a scene and I hope they reflect the chaos on a set.

So maybe instead of egos clashing or 'he said, she said' we should all let our work do the talking for us. If a person talks about how fantastic and revolutionary his videos are, and I watch their movies and think they suck, no amount of hype is ever going to change my opinion of their videos.

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 10/6/2004 10:55:00 AM

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this ENTIRE thread is about Jule Jordan possibly shooting an all black porn. THAT'S IT!!! I don't want to hear anything else about what turns you on, what you're good at or any of that other stuff. he's now considering it and that's about all I need to know. I'll check his site for any further details, but devoe, bsd, and all the dudes who've been trying to distract the topic back from where it started let it go.

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You are definitely the best thing going at WCP. However, your lighting always looks weird dude. I 've watched 3 volumes of black ass candy and some sex shooters, and the lighting just throws it off for me. You keep the sets too dark or something. I feel the atmosphere you're trying to do, but it just doesn't come out right. I will give you props on your female talent though.

WCP has slipped big time just like Anabolic. WCP started the whole IR thing going in my opinion, but the spotty talent, both the women in Booty Talk and some of the males, are hurting the company.

If you can get the lighting right, and get the talent to have some energy, then you will be off to a good start. Your videos just look like they're trying to be black couples porn or something. Energy is key. If you look at JSlayer or Domina x's recent stuff, you will see what I mean.

I know you guys all have to have your own style, but in my opinion, you need to work on these things to get my money. And please find some new guys. I don't want to call these people out, but we all know who they are. Please tell your buds at WCP to hold some auditions or something...

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If I wanted a bunch of megalomaniacs trying to one up each other, I'd go to RAME

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VB

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Anabolic/Diabolic tends to be a big part of that argument. Regardless of anyone's opinions of the stuff that they are currently putting out, it's pretty undisputed that the stuff they used to put out was really good. However, they received very few AVN awards for anything.

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The rationale for not advertising on AVN has alot to do with sales. At one point for several months a long time ago, Ana/Dia did advertise on AVN. However, there was no noticeable change in sales. Henceforth, it was dropped as an unnecessary expense.

That makes sense to me. I don't understand any other reason to do so. I know I'll never win any awards at the show and frankly I could care less. I'd rather sell more movies than win awards anyhow.

And it is quite evident that the number of pieces sold at a premium price is the ultimate award you can anticipate.

It's really kind of funny.

Last week I had dinner with another director who works at another company which everyone lauds on these boards. He told me he thinks Anabolic/Diabolic is going down because of companies like his. I asked him how many pieces he sold of his movies. I laughed. He asked me, for example, how many pieces No Swallowing Allowed sold. I let him know it was six times as many as his movie sold including foreign sales. In addition, they were sold at a higher price and triple the price in foreign sales. So technically it was about eight times the sales. None of this has anything to do with AVN advertisement.

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Edited by - kerrville on 10/10/2004 4:26:55 PM

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The funniest thing I hear from directors is their yearning for "ownership". In other words, they want to go to an established company and demand "ownership" of their product.

Except for Evil Angel and some in Red Light, I just don't see how this is fiscally possible.

For example, I spoke with a director who was offerred "ownership" at a company. When calculating sales and production costs, we discovered he'd actually be losing money in the long run. In other words, he'd be doing the movie for free for the company.

Ownership only works when you can offset production costs and gain a sizeable profit.

Personally, I think alot of directors who demand "ownership", instead of begging a company owner for it, should start their own company. That is true "ownership".

Few directors in this business have the clout or the following to be able to demand this.

As far as Anabolic/Diabolic, it is the brand name that sells. NOT the directors. Sure, I may sell a little more because my name is on the box, but that does not mean I'm un-replaceable. I don't have such an ego that I think I'm the reason the movies sell. Not even close. As long as the product is good, the movies will sell despite the director's name on the box. What's more important are the girls on the box.

If I moved to, let's say, Erotic Angel and made videos. I would sell Erotic Angel numbers. Period. This goes for every director out there. It's the branding of the companies that sell, not the directors.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 10/10/2004 4:57:11 PM

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Lex did just that, and I wish him (along with Vanessa) the best of luck.

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It's funny to me. I know numerous directors who have tried to be Evil directors. After all, in this industry, being an Evil director may be, perhaps, the pinnacle of directing arguably.

One director I know didn't cut the mustard test over there. He was telling me how sick and tired he was over owners getting rich off his product. So he wanted another company to give him 'ownership'. Not only that, he expected Evil to fully fund him as well because of he had no money due to his exorbitant crack habit.

I asked him why not make your own company and get rich off the work of others. And pay rent, employees, editors, shooters, graphics people, replicators, authorers, janitors, warehouse employees, webmasters, secretaries, publicists, taxes, sales personnel, water bills, equipment, etc.

Nope, he thought of his work (which I consider garbage at best) to be so groundbreaking, he would demand ownership, get fully funded for his shooting, editing, and post production, and get it done.

Maybe it's just my mindset, but the concept of asking a company owner for your own ownership strikes me as an odd thing to do unless a company like Evil really wants the director.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 10/10/2004 8:18:54 PM

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You going to be shooting Marie Luv in some hardcore nasty flick anytime in the future?

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EYECANDY is what it's all about. you can take a girl who is pretty but is a dead lay put her in a A-LIST black porn video and she's getting work for days.basicly saying to comsumers all we got to do is put a pretty girl on the cover and and have a blank tape inside and they dumbasses would by it.

second there are a lot of pretty black girls out in the porn industry,but when you don't have a hair or makeup artist and most of the black directors are trying compare them to girls who pictures was airbrushed and perfectly posed to hide their inperfections then it's kind of hard for them to get work

when you see black studs in IR and they eating pussy,kissing touching rubbing,foreplay then of course they(white women) don't have any problem with letting their body open up to get a good ass pounding.

now look at a all black casted videos, the studs are etheir players or pimps they don't kiss or eat pussy,don't make eye contact with the black girl and now is ready to stick his 14 inch manhood up her a%& and lets not forget the director smacking his lips and sighing in the back round because she can't take all 14 inches.

when you have black studs(top names)who becomes directora because they want to take black porn to the next level and all you see on their site is black males on white women. come on! or the same 6 girls because they are "friends" and hang out with the director all the time..........

on the flip side, there's not to many white guys (top names) who won't do black girls and the ones that do can't because they are contacted to fuck the girls the company picks out

black talent rates are lower then white talent rates

black girl boy/girl-500(unless she has white features)

white girl boy/girl-800

even the blackgirls who get downright nasty(a2m,gape,piss..etc) geta blacklash from brothers because the only videos they can find them doing that shit is with creepy old white men.

black porn will never change as long as you got black directors and studs who are to scared to rock the boat.

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I believe this is done.

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