I've never noticed anything exceptionally degrading about mainstream German porn. I love a lot of it. The Master Race has produced some great porn lol. On the flipside, Germans do seem to have a thing for scat (just like the Japanese). What's up with that? Yuck!
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smallcock Deactivated User
131 Posts 8/07
Posted - May 1 2008 : 7:30AM
To answer the OP, most of us are oversexed degenerates. It's an affliction, a disease deriving from the male ballsack, that causes men to be affected disproportionately. Always has, always will.
I often rent porns in a video rental shop for my husband who has less time than I, and have experienced 1: I seem to be the only female in the porn-room.Took me some time to get accustomed to it. 2: the titles of a lot of porns are rather vulgar and stupid. 3: And so is much of the contents! What my husband is looking for: good sets, fascinating, realistic or at least funny plots, reall fictional stories, with porn stars, who are actors and actresses as well and not only handsome bodies in disguise having sex. There were a lot of good films made in the 70's and 80's; my husband is collecting them, and I sometimes watch them too. If there were more porn movies like that with less vulgar titles and contents I believe it would improve their reputation. Regards "Suppenhenne"
Tastes obviously differ greatly. I don´t for one moment wish any plots for porn, excepting perhaps e.g. a BDSM film where the plot could actually work (e.g. a female spy is captured and the "interrogated"). If I really watch to watch a film with a plot, I simply pop e.g. Hercule Poirot´s Evil under the Sun or Sherlock Holmes´s The Empty House in.
Just do a search for titles containing the term "neger" and look how many titles there are. And I'm not offended by a fisting scene on the front cover. You don't get what I mean. I have nothing against extreme sex, actually most porn I watch has extreme sex acts. I'm only saying that many boxcovers are rather ugly and degrading towards women which is something I can deal with as a male but probably not so much if I were a female.
I dont like long quotes, but I couldnt say it better. I really dont have anything against hard sex acts, but its the way how it is brought to the customer. And the german porn labels only target their products to a special type of men, not very intelligent, hating women. Men who are frustrated of an uninteresting or nonexisting sex life. "Dirty Sluts", "worthless whores", etc. And if you would understand the dialogues in german porn, only morons talk like that. Most men enjoy this or ( even worse ) dont recognize this. Most men are missing a delicacy of feeling. Also this GGG/666. I am a big golden shower fan. Its the biggest turn on to me. But the Thompson movies dont arouse me for one second. Titles are degrading, his idiotic talk. The girls are treated like objects here. MAGMA - here you have to divide the french imports and the german productions. The french movies are average-good. Synchro could be better, but they arent as stupid as the german movies. MMV has some US, swedish and english imports too, they are watchable, but also very bad produced stuff. So I can partly understand german women, who dont want to look at this stuff or dont want to enter a sex-shop/blue movie section. But almost every sexshop has other ( MUCH BETTER and sometimes EXCELLENT ) porn movies too. From northern Europe, Italy, France or the USA. Nobody is forced to rent this german trash. No women and no men. But why have other labels never drawed the attention of german women ? Thats a mystery I still havent solved..... Edited by - Caroline-NL on 5/1/2008 12:47:20 PM
This is a cliche. There are only 3 companies producing (very bad) scat stuff in Germany. ( Grauzone, SG Video, Taur ). SG Video had a few better movies, but there is nothing in the league of S.O.D., Aroma or other japanese labels. Grauzone is the worst dreck Ive ever seen in my life, with women out of eastern europe, who desperately need money. Almost all of the models hate what they do before the camera. In general, scat isnt such a big market as in Japan.
Prophit, the word "neger" is racist to you? Oh dear. What do you suggest instead? "Afrikanisch-amerikanisch"? Caroline, synchro can never be good. As I said previously, dubbed voices should be banned in all films, porn or mainstream. As for the commentary on GGG/666 films, I can´t comment on that because I don´t speak German well enough and to be frank, I am not even interested what they say. All in all, I a bit surprised by the moralistic overtones here. Seems that e.g. BDSM is not understood at all here.
People have a sex phobia. It never seems to go out of fashion to be terrified of sex. Even I'll admit that as much as I like porn and as open and honest as I am about it here, I feel a little guilty renting porn. Even though I know I shouldn't. This stuff is just hammered into our heads before we ever have a chance to think about it objectively. It goes hand in hand with religious indoctrination. Most Christians are Christians because their parents were.
Through all the time I've been reading your posts, you always say you're opposed to censorship. But then, you turn right around and post something like this. Do you not understand that if you wish to have the right to what you like, you must also be tolerant of what you don't? Everybody likes something. And everybody dislikes something. Whatever it is that you like, you can bet there's somebody who hates it. The market has to decide. If people buy this, then that's obviously what they want. Provided, of course, other things are available. If the alternatives aren't available, instead of complaining about it, the best course of action might be making your own and doing it the way you want it done. The old saying about if you want something done "right" you have to do it yourself rings very true here. Because sexuality is so individual and porn is aimed at such a broad market. I'd bet that it isn't really all that difficult to make your own amateur porn. It might cost some money and take some time but people do it. Whether you want to sell it or not would be up to you. Maybe you could start small and slow and see how you like doing it.
lol In Germany this is seen as a clearly racist term and I have never seen it used in any other media than porn. They seem to be the only ones who can get away with it because nobody cares about them. Try saying it to a black person here and you will see how much they like it. It's not like I care very much but I just mentioned this because it shows the intelligence of the makers who are behind these movies. If you like them that's fine but maybe it is easier to like them if you don't speak German so well.
Mr.RP, you misunderstood me - once again. I havent said, that I want to censor or even ban this ! The omnipresence of this trash porn stuff in Germany, is mostly responsible for the low female interest in porn, thats all Ive said. If I had a sex shop, I would move this stuff into the last shelves. (Male) customers who want this, will search the whole shop to find it. But a women, surely very nervous entering such a shop for the 1st time, will leave the shop at once, if the first wall of DVDs is full with 666/GGG, Max Hardcore, Grauzone and "Dirty bitches molested", or ?
I suspect English isn't your first language so I guess it's possible I often misinterpret you. I do pretty good with figuring out what people are saying but sometimes, it comes across the wrong way. But still. Calling it "trash" seems equivalent to saying you think it shouldn't be made. Which, you know. I'm not fond of Max Hardcore or even the GGG stuff. It's not for me but I don't really care. I go to porn shops and I filter out what I don't like and zero in on what I want. There's actually surprisingly little in the average porn shop that really appeals to me. I know the feeling of feeling lost in a porn shop. But am I embarrassed any more by the existence of any particular kind of porn than any other kind? No. It takes all kinds and the world is much better off with people who are into the really hard shit sitting around jacking off than out roaming the streets with nothing to do. When it comes to women and porn, it's complicated because I know there are a fuck of a lot of kinky women who love the hard shit as much as any man does. But it's not "proper" for a woman to admit to it so a lot of women repress that aspect of their sexuality in public. But honestly. A porn shop is a place where you shouldn't need to feel like you can't be open. Everybody is there for the same thing. Right? Everybody might have different tastes but it's the same anywhere you go. The clerks see everything. They're so jaded they aren't gonna think anything about you they haven't thought about a million other people who have passed through. And frankly. If your friends are that shallow that they're willing to judge you based upon everything that's available in your favorite sex shop, maybe you should ditch the fuckers and find someone with a mind of their own to hang out with. That sounds harsh but you shouldn't have to worry about your friends judging you that way. What kind of friends are they, anyway?
Well, yeah. But from the way she described it, it sounded to me like she was talking about a dedicated porn shop. We have video stores here in the US that have porn sections and regular sections as well. The adult section is usually curtained off. But still. Most of the stores that have adult sections have very large adult sections. It's clear that they do very good business withe the adult section. The clerks see everything. They're kind of like doctors in that way. You really can't shock them.
Prophit, no wonder the average German that has been subjected to agitprop for so long from folks like H. Heer and J. Fischer considers the word "neger" offensive. After all, the current national-masochistic Germany has perhaps the poorest record on freedom of speech in current Western world (e.g. doubting a certain magical figure is a jail time offense). In my native language the word "neger" has a very close equivalent ("neekeri"). And usually that offends mostly those from the politically correct left. The people is question determine the offensivity of the term solely from the context of the word, not the word itself. But, this is no longer on topic so I will not comment further.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - May 2 2008 : 1:55AM
I love 'trash' movies, I don't agree that seeing something as trash equals that it shouldn't be made. Besides, saying that you'd rather that something not be made is not the same as saying that it should be prevented from being made. That is a leap in logic.
No, it was a normal video rental store. My former classmate wasnt looking for porn, of course not, she hates porn. She even disliked it, that the store offered porn at all. RP, I am watching trash movies too. Many of the B movies, like " Communists from Space " are pure trash, but I watch them for fun. I even watched a dozen GGG/666 and Max Hardcore movies. But I hadnt fun at all. I thought it was a waste of female talent. Who is aroused by a maniac with a cowboy hat, whose every third sentence is " Thats it " ? Max Hardcore would be a great horror character, like Freddy Krüger, Jason and Michael Myers. Or he already is it.
I disagree somewhat. If someone asks to be corrected, as Caroline did, there is nothing wrong with it. Like her, I have studied other languages (3) and I always wanted to be corrected. I have a terrible fear of sounded like an idiot in other languages. A fear that usually comes to fruition. It sounded like Caroline wanted to be corrected. I was going to make the same correction that you did. I have noticed that most Europeans pick up English pretty fast (probably much faster than we Americans pick up their languages), but there are certain grammatical things that naturally trip them up. For instance, in Germany I noticed that Germans would say something like "I am living in that house for 10 years". Which may be acceptable (I'm not sure), but it sounds better to the American ear to say "I have been living in that house for 10 years". That kind of subtlety though is hard to pick up for non-natives. By the way, it always struck me how Germans switched the V and W sounds when speaking English. In German, the W is prounounced as a V (wasser if said phonetically "vasser"). Anyway, in English they will often say something like "It is quite "vindy" today. However, when there is a word that starts with a "v" in English, they will often use the "w" sound, for example "It is 'wery' cold today." Just an observation I found interesting. I'm probably the only one. :-)
I suppose the typical porn consumer is male, but there's no such thing as a typical male. We can be fat or thin, intellectual or less intellectual. Sure, I would imagine that most women have difficulties to relate to our visual obsession, and hence think we are stupid. By the way, I'm really clever and very fit and have loved porn since I was about 10 years old.;-)
..and you shouldn't. The sentence about German above is breathtakingly ignorant without you adding anything of that caliber. Edited by - MissJanet on 5/2/2008 3:26:42 PM
Yes, she did ask to be corrected - after juha made fun of her. And he still corrected her incorrectly, so I think I have to stand by what I said. Now, of course it's good to help people, but don't make fun of them without helping them (as juha did initially), and definitely, definitely, definitely, if you're going to play the Good Samaritan and help someone out with their English, don't fuck it up.
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smallcock Deactivated User
131 Posts 8/07
Posted - May 3 2008 : 2:17AM
MaxHardcore would be ok but his weiner is too small. If I don't think the girls can even feel it, it's hard for me to get off on it.
Funny how we have different groups of perverts defending their own and slandering the other persons fetish. 'Oooh, watersports is ok, but only if it's a gentle splashing on the face. Otherwise it's degrading to women'. Common guys and galls, in the eyes of many, all us contributors to this board are guilty of all the things mentioned in this thread (racism, stupidity, violent, degrading, abusive, etc.). Let's not let it divide us. Perverts of the world, unite!
I don't consider myself pervy. And while there are many many things I don't like but have no problem with being produced there are definitely some things that should be forbidden. Everytime I roam the ADT-forum I'm shocked about demands some members make.
I agree with juha, as opposed to Captain Cock. It's one thing to say "yeah everyone has different fetishes"; it's another thing to say "hey, there's nothing wrong with treating someone from another race, or another sex, as inferior." If your fetish involves making someone else's life worse, then I think it's alright for someone else to say something about it. Especially if you're trying to make your fetish come true, either by doing it yourself, or by encouraging porn companies to do it. [edited to add quote] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 5/3/2008 1:04:48 PM
The act of sex itself cannot be degrading. What makes it degrading is the way people like Max Hardcore and others treat women and the way they are presented on the box covers etc. I have nothing against any fetish or form of sex whatsoever as long as the people who take part it in are treated with some respect. Now if we are talking about BDSM and all this stuff that's a different topic because here the degradation itself is the fetish.
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pussyluvme Deactivated User
I love conquistador & wana fuck him in his ass 70 Posts 12/07
Posted - May 3 2008 : 8:11PM
calling all men stupid is ballsy, and i take direct a fence to that, and reply with.... you must be stupid, and im surprised no 1 has pointed this out
Guess what? Nobody has to make the stuff some members demand. If nobody is willing to make it then it won't be made or it will be made so poorly that very few will actually buy it. I don't think there's any need to forbid people to perform in a porn scene. No matter what it is, if it's that unpleasant for them, they won't do it. Or maybe they'll even like it. What about that? Should people be forbidden from doing things they like doing? Even if the average person wouldn't enjoy it, there are always some who do. Some girls even like scat. Attractive girls who could do any kind of porn sometimes choose to do scat. Why? My guess is because they actually like it. I think if you're going to say that there are things that should be forbidde, you should probably follow that up with explaining what you're talking about and why. What things should be forbidden, in your opinion and why?
I still have never gotten an adequate response to a question I usually ask when this comes up. Are you saying that people shouldn't be allowed to degrade themselves? This is a fundamental thing that goes to the heart of the principles of individuality and personal freedom. What if someone wants to be treated that way by someone like Max? As far as I know, Max doesn't kidnap his "victims" and force them into compliance. Maybe they like it and maybe they don't but they choose to do it and it's just not possible to look at a scene and know whether or not that person is being degraded against their will. But if they felt they were being abused beyond what was agreed upon, I don't imagine it would be difficult for them to file charges. And people are sympathetic to females so I think they'd see some action taken. And for instance. How do you know what Max does isn't usually scripted? And how do you know that some of the women don't enjoy being presented in that way?
RP. I have to call you unfair on this. I read Caroline's post and she did not advocate censorship in any way. Her meaning was quite clear and her English was easy to understand. Expressing a critical opinion about something is not censorship. Being tolerant of other people's tastes does not require you to praise or enjoy those things yourself.
As long as people are comfortable with doing what they do I have no problem with that. I don't know I bet there are some girls who like to be mistreated by Max Hardcore and the like. But it can't be more than a low percentage. I often watch lesbian porn where the girls call each other whores etc. and you get the feeling that some of them like it. But I think most of them just do it because it's normal in today's porn. And I think it shouldn't be the norm to treat your fellow human being with disrespect, not in everyday society and not in porn. As I stated there is a form of sex where degradation itself is the fetish and I have no problem with that. But when people like all this "hatred" towards women in porn then there most be something wrong with them. Edited by - Prophit on 5/4/2008 2:16:14 AM Edited by - Prophit on 5/4/2008 2:17:06 AM
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - May 4 2008 : 2:26AM
^^^^ This kind of posting is irritating to read.From the forum etiquette.
This goes for even the best porn it seems, I love the stuff from Manuel Ferrara and Steve Holmes, I think they're great intense fuckers that do not try to degrade women in any way, they're just perverts. But the boxcovers still have this misogynic shit printed on them... if I didn't know porn as well as I do, I would think these movies where as fucked up as Max Hardcore or some stuff from JM Productions. So I don't blame people for being ignorant about the actual content. BTS-material has been a great way for me to shape my opinion about performers and directors, but I guess it does takes an interest in the secluded world that porn really is (I love how american media seem to almost claim that porn is conquering mainstream media). Then we have the 'posing lesbians' genre, surgically enhanced girls with their mouths open and their eyes closed. Yes, those women are presented as mere objects, if women should find that sexist or not... I don't know, but I find it boring with that level of integrity in porn, since I like it more real than that. If it's stupid? Well, isn't this forum and most of it's active members a proof it's not? The level of discussion, the more balanced view on... probably most things. But not on bestiality of course... ;)
This has nothing to do with interests or tastes. And if you are gonna argue this way I might just go ahead and say people just don't understand the interests and tastes of pedophiles! Somewhere you have to draw a line I guess and for me this line is where porn starts to get inhumane. Edited by - Prophit on 5/4/2008 10:43:26 AM
The difference with pedo's is that the line is obviously drawn where porn starts to get illegal. What is perceived as inhumane depends on a number factors and is usually quite subjective. Pedophiles and their interests pose real threat and cause real harm to real children. Children beyond certain age are incapable of appreciating the consequences of their actions, and therefore, cannot consent to something. That doesn't apply to adults who willingly subject themselves to humiliation or degradation on camera. And if one can distinguish reality from fantasy, one can also say that there is nothing wrong in watching it. Edited by - Zoid on 5/4/2008 12:24:05 PM
"willingly" itself is a very subjective concept. More on this later. I guess maybe the concern, for some anyway, isn't just that the porn depicts degradation, but that some of it actually degrades. In other words, perhaps the woman really didn't know what she was getting herself into, and was treated more cruelly than she wanted to be during the scene, and didn't like it, and didn't approve, and now people are jerking off to it and loving it. "Wait," you say, "if she didn't like it she should've stopped the scene!" Well, that's often easier said than done. A performer could neglect to stop the scene for any number of reasons. She wants to make it big in the biz, and is worried the director will badmouth her if she stops. Or she's only in the scene as a one-time thing, she desperately needs the money, and she's worried that she won't get paid if she stops. Or any other reason that only she would know. And if she made the decision not to stop the scene, but definitely didn't enjoy it, does that make it okay to jerk off to? Well, lets say a woman is raped, I mean actually raped, and someone films it. Is that okay to jerk off to? Probably not; I have a feeling most people here would agree with me on that one (though not all). Now let's say a woman is raped, but for whatever reason, doesn't say "no". Maybe she's too afraid, too ashamed, too whatever. She still feels the same about it as the other woman, she still feels she was raped. Is that okay to jerk off to? I'd still say probably not, and I think most people here would too. But I think something like this happens sometimes on porn sets - what the woman has consented to before the scene and what actually happens during the scene are not the same thing, and she was not okay with it, but she didn't say "no", again for whatever reason. And now it's being sold on DVD for $24.99. Is that okay to jerk off to? Probably not.
Hm, why exactly did you type "probably"? Are you not sure? First of all, I am not watching some underground porn starring human traffic victims. I agree with you that some chicks occasionally bite more than they can chew, but I don't believe she can't walk off the set. In fact, I know many examples where girls did walk off the set. If a girl puts money above her health, then it's her choice. If she felt that she was abused, then she can if not go to the police then at least inform porn community afterwards. That, I believe, happened as well. I will not jerk off to movies where coercion took place (even allegedly). But simply deducing that she might have been abused without any facts by using nothing but movie footage isn't very productive. Some women love pushing their own limits. The bottom line is that I have no freaking clue as to what has transpired on the set of a random porn movie. I don't think you do either. Therefore, if I am to ponder about whether or not something bad happened to a girl in any given title, I don't think we would be able to jerk off to anything, really. Edited by - Zoid on 5/4/2008 2:55:36 PM
Let's not get carried away here. No one's being so extreme as to always wonder about everything that may or may not have gone through someone's head. But what I'm talking about is scenes where it's obvious the girl really isn't having a lot of fun (and we've all seen some of these). The guy's being rougher than she'd want him to be. This happens a lot. Fortunately, there are plenty more scenes where the girl's into it, or at least doesn't mind it... but there are definitely tons of scenes out there where it was pretty freakin' clear that the girl was getting more than she wanted. Tons of these sorts of scenes have been talked about on ADT over the years, I'm not saying anything new. And the vast majority of these scenes happen in the rougher titles, because that's where it's more likely that something's going to be too rough for the girl. So I guess the concern comes that by making more of the really rough titles, that you're increasing the chances of girls getting it rougher than they are okay with, and then everyone's jerking off to stuff that isn't exactly consensual, and then it becomes desirable to watch, and that's where we start getting into the dangerous territory. That's where it doesn't become so black and white anymore about what's okay to watch and what's not. About anything with a 17 year old girl is wrong, but anything with an 18 year old girl is healthy and normal. These lines are not so clear as many would like to think. [edit: typo] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 5/4/2008 3:11:15 PM
Again, how do you know that? Performers do improvise. I mean porn (especially gonzo) isn't something that's 100% scripted. Sure, he may have slapped slightly harder that she expected. So what? Even Hollywood celebs get slapped in the face if the script asks for it. In porn, they often have signs to signal if it becomes too much (like pinching the leg). Other than that, there is a lot of stuff in porn that isn't fun. Do you think that drinking a glass of disgusting, cold cum from 15 different guys is fun? I don't think so, and it's not even rough or violent. At risk of getting very philosophical here, I think that very few people in this world are paid money for just having fun. Porn is also a job, a profession.To be frank, I haven't noticed that there are more rough titles, or that porn got rougher (in general). There were same type of concerns about roughness of porn back in 2004 when I first registered here. I didn't notice any particular change, but it could be just me, so I can't claim it with any certainty. The only thing I noticed is strange fascination with milk enemas lately. True, and that's exactly why the law makes it clear for us. Edited by - Zoid on 5/4/2008 3:45:30 PM
Some good points have been made already but I'll try to add my own without being redundant (though I usually am). I think what really bothers me here is that all this questioning whether or not this or that is "okay" is really bordering on censorship. I don't think it matters whether it's the government censoring or a few people on an internet message board who didn't like what they saw trying to talk the industry into censoring itself. Censorship is censorship, no? And I'm sorry but people are responsible for themselves. My grandfather worked in the coal mines and died of black lung when he was in his early 50s. Did he really enjoy breathing all that dust? If there's some question as to whether women really agreed to go as far as they did in whatever movie, then that is something that should be addressed. But I don't buy that the only way to keep this from happening is just not making porn. First of all. It's pretty easy to tell just by sitting down at your computer and doing some surfing of porn sites that doing porn isn't a bed of roses. It doesn't advertise itself to prospective talent as a nice, cozy, pleasant job with benefits and a retirement package. I would venture a guess that a women who doesn't exactly enjoy being slapped and called a slut probably wouldn't particularly enjoy the idea of gargling cum or getting fucked senseless for 35 minutes under hot lights with a bunch of people watching, either. This "line" that people keep talking about should be drawn wherever she draws it. And if she doesn't have enough sense to walk out on a director who crosses lines that she clearly drew for them then really, she has nobody to blame but herself. If all porn women did this (especially the more popular girls), then directors would feel more compelled to stay within their boundaries. Porn is a business of selling yourself and like any other business, you have to decide for yourself what you simply won't do or what you simply won't put up with. I've walked out on several jobs in my life. It wasn't easy and I knew those employers would badmouth me if I had to try and use them for a reference but I did what I had to do. It was their loss, really. And finally, porn isn't a pleasant line of work for a woman who has a lot of boundaries. It just isn't. Of course there are reasonable boundaries that any porn actress can set. But if this is a woman who feels she will be scarred for life if someone slaps her too hard or calls her a "stupid fuckhole", she may want to reconsider doing porn at all. Because even if the people she'll be working with don't treat her badly, she'll likely be called all kinds of names by people who recognize her outside of porn for many years. Porn is not the kind of business where dainty, delicate flowers are going to flourish. I don't have a problem with women who don't want to be treated badly or work in unpleasant conditions but it's a free country. Where does common sense need to come into play? Here in this thread, we have people blaming male porn viewers for the fact that some women go into a line of work with very few limits and at least a few occupational health concerns and find the experience unpleasant. If I knowingly step out in front of a bus, are you going to blame the passengers? If a football player gets a broken neck, you can't really blame the spectators. It's just the nature of the game. It isn't a safe thing to be doing. This kind of work is for people who actually like doing it. That said. There are women who are at least willing to tolerate the full range of acts that they could be expected to perform in the porn business. Sure. Things might get a little out of hand sometimes and somebody will just go too far but that will happen anywhere and in any line of work. It's why some people quit jobs they hate. And I don't think one director badmouthing a certain girl is going to mean she'll never work in the business again. There are a lot of directors who respect the girl's limits or don't even try to push them. Why aren't there any agents who will only let their girls work for directors they approve of? (I don't know that there aren't, actually. I'm just saying that could be a possible solution)
Chloe Temple Interview
Posted - May 1 2008 : 7:28AM
True, and that's exactly why the law makes it clear for us. 