Was Al Capone an amateur criminal? Certainly not. And yet I doubt if even he was in it for the money more than the women who appear in the various videos featuring the title 'amateur'. It seems as though most of these ladies also go to amateur doctors for their breast augmentations, visit amateur tattoo parlors and have amateur hairstylists dump dreadful yellow dyes on their heads to give them that all natural, girl next door look we always see in those 'amateur' porn videos.
Does anything really exist that could be considered amateur porn? Or is this just another test of the depths of some people's level of credulity?
How do implants, tatoos, and bottle blondes keep somebody from being an amateur? A lot of women dye their hair. You do not need to be a porn star to get a tatoo. More and more of those under 30 have tatoos, even those that are not porn stars or strippers. I have known women to have implants that are not strippers or porn stars. They didn't even have any intent to become one.
Capone was a full time criminal. Amateur porn stars are not in porn as their main thing or using it as advertising for feature dancing or escorting.
There's definitely both. When you mention bogus amateur porn, I immediately think of Homegrown. For real stuff, I think of Shot at Home, Hal Maroon, and Pixie's Emporium. Yes, Pixie's falls somewhere in the middle, but they capture the amateur spirit so well that I lump it in with the amateur stuff. There's also several internet sites (such as Janet Exposed and WePlay2Gether) that are amateur but do a decent job of it.
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
[Link]
don juan Deactivated User
143 Posts 7/04
Posted - Feb 4 2005 : 11:34AM
You've guessed right on that one. I send everbody there my condolences and heart-felt sympathies.
There is no such thing as "amateur porn." First-time, maybe. Amateur porn has become strictly a marketing tool. In most of the so-called amateur features you see the same old same old girls. Same for the gazillions of websites that claim that they just took the girl off the street, paid her money, and now she's having sex on camera - FOR THE FIRST TIME!
The only movie makers who can lay claim to having at least some amateur content in their work are Ed Powers, Rodney Moore, and Max Hardcore. They really did introduce girls that hadn't been seen before. But now even Rodney Moore is mostly using the same girls that everyone else uses.
Why are Rodney Moore, Ed powers, and Max Hardcore considered borderline amateur but couples who set the video camera on their nightstand and send it in to Shot at Home or Hal Maroon aren't????
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
I think in order to answer the question one must first ask "What is AMATEUR?"
Everything we have produced is "Amateur" But we actually have some girls who appear in our DVD's that are somewhat known in the industry. Melissa Ashley, Lisa Sparxxx, Kylie Samone, Kiki Daire.
As I understand it, Amateur is all new people, or people not in the industry. Pro-Am is new people put with people in the industry (Professional / Amateur). So when you take Girl X off the street and put her with Ed, Randy, or Rodney or you take Guy Y and put him with Lisa Sparxxx or Kiki D'Aire, you have pro-am. I also consider XPlor / Homegrown a pro-am studio from the little I've seen of them. When you have something like a movie made with a camcorder that a boyfriend and girlfriend who have absolutely no ties to the industry left on their nightstand to capture their romp, you have an amateur movie. There's a heck of a big difference between something like Dirty Debs 25894 or Up N Cummers 864 (both coming out next month, and as I understand it the Up N Cummers is very special to Randy because it matches his age ) and something like Emma and Brad 2 or Shelly 1 .
"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling
Here's the interesting difference in understandings then. Because I also understand "Amateur" as it applies to the industry as people who do it all themselves. They don't employ a staff of people etc.
As for us here at BKP the owner always says, "I don't give a fuck what you label me just make sure the checks clear!" We actually like the creating video that has the element of never before seen people as well as good lighting and good camera work and editing.
So now you've set me off wondering what that makes us. LOL
The Miriam-Webster definition of an amateur is as follows:
"One who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession."
As it relates to sport, a person who is an amateur "should" not receive any financial compensation for their efforts whereas a professional is compensated very handsomely.
Please note that the world "should" are in parentheses.
IMHO, the "amateur" tag is misleading. These "amateur" performers are probably financially compensated for their efforts. In the porn industry, "amateur" probably indicates a performer's first or second scene in front of a camera.
I am inclined to agree with that in it's entirety. I do however think that for the most part amateur means that it is a do it yourself mom & pop type operation. At least that is one understanding I have for the label as it applies to the internet. But yeah, I really don't think too many people get naked and have sex on camera without some form of compensation. Money, content for personal sites; something.
But that was an extremely insightful definition Grover and one that I had thought. Once a person recieves any money from their venture they cease being amateur.
I had a membership to explicitvoyeur.com, which had a lot of clips of what appeared to be people's home sex videos. Seemed pretty ligit to me. They did have other links to other porn which was fake amateur. All in all pretty good site
She is Kelly Lords and is clickable 175 Posts 12/04
Posted - Feb 4 2005 : 7:00PM
Just some rambling: On the web it seems that pretty much everyone is an amateur these days. The Nasty Dollars site cumfiesta.com, with tag line Where Amateur Girls Get Creamed , promotes Haley Paige and Taylor Rain on its very first page. One of the 2004 BAA nominees for Best Amateur Site was FirstTimeAuditions.com, a site that boasts "first-timers" like "Mellissa" Lauren and "Isebella" Soprano. The BAA award for Best Amateur Site (Single) went to Lightspeed girl Taylor Little, who's been around for years. (I wonder who will be the next winner. Catalina Cruz perhaps?) And then we have Naughty America, which people keep referring to as "amateur", though they even have contract girls.
I think the whole thing looks a bit like the way people brand anything that's not Madonna or Brad Pitt (and pretty much anything that is Madonna or Brad Pitt) as Alternative Music or Independent Cinema . Using the same logic, the definition of "amateur porn" would boil down to "anything that's not Jenna Jameson". (Of course, this would have to change the day the highly anticipated homemade video "Stolen Jenna Anal Sex Tape" hits the web.)
For me personally, ever since the days of BustyAmateurs.com, "amateur" simply means "less than two tons of make-up".
LOL @ Linus. See again the point is seemingly being made that there is no real clear cut definition of "Amateur" Which is why I think the easiest definition is simply just that its all do it yourself. No huge crew behind ya, no frills nothing extremely fancy. Just roll and go.
But I do find it funny when I see sites like that where well know adult actresses are touted as amateur. Which is fine if it was their very first shoot ever and from there they got into videos and such.
So many definitions for the word. I'm thinking maybe it's just a matter of defining the difference between Jenna and NOT Jenna. REALLY poor production value ("Amateur") Pretty good production value ("Pro-Am") and GREAT production Value ("Pro") Maybe thats it?????
I believe that it is extremely frustrating when you are decieved into thinking that something you watch is "amateur" only to find out it was the girl's 50th film, there should be a black list within the industry for that kind of thing. At least in the Dirty Deb movies, Ed will point out that the girls "were new" at time of filming.
I would say you cease to be "Amateur" after say 2 or 3 films OR ANY high production film? Reason?-if a professional studio takes a chance on you are you an amatuer? Is wrestler HHH from WWE whose first movie was Blade Trinity in 2004, is he an amatuer actor, even though he has been on televison almost 10 years? (Sorry first example I could think of) Let's take it back to the adult world. Was Jesse Jane an Amateur being signed to DPlayground almost immediately? I know the next question is going to be.. What defines a major adult studio? That is probably another thread entirely.
There are two kinds of amateur porn: amateur girls who are doing their first feature within the porn industry; secondly, porn shot by amateur couples. The couples stuff is of no interest to me; with few exceptions, it's dull and boring. (after all, who is interested in seeing Jamie, the fat housewife, get it on with her husband, Jimmy, the overweight couch potato.
A girl is an "amateur" if this is her first (or second) feature and she hasn't been seen anywhere else. It doesn't matter to me whether the male talent is a pro or not.
The "amateur" character can (and should be) enhanced via a sort of "amateurish" look of the production: early Ed Powers comes to mind here, also some early stuff by Rodney Moore. It also helps if the girl can act "amateurish," i.e., can credibly pretend to be scared, pretend to not know what she's doing, etc.
OK. Well then if she's ACTING "Amateur" then its not really amateur, she's acting. =o). I guess what I was trying to point out that the definition of "Amateur" is subjective. Each person seems to have a different understanding and definition for the word.
For me its about the connection between the two people involved. And it brings to mind low quality production but REALLY hot sex. If that makes any sense. Personally I prefer the really hot sex and high quality production.
SO in effect I am wondering if this line of conversation isn't really just like spinning our wheels in quicksand.
I've read a lot of the "Amateur" Web boards and this question has been asked over and over and over again for years with no answer.
So perhaps it really comes down to regardless of the label what people like. We actually have a thread on our board that discusses this very topic as it relates to the differences between "Amateur" v. Pro.
In sports, and pretty much everywhere else in the world, "professional" means that you get paid for your work and "amateur" means that you don't get paid for your work. Using this strict definition, there is lots of amateur and professional porn out there.
It seems absurd to me to say that a girl's 2nd movie is amateur, but then her 3rd is pro. But I suppose you are allowed to have your own eccentric definition of "amateur", but most people will probably not subscribe to it.
To me, amateur porn features people who don't make a living by doing porn. They may make a few bucks doing it, but it isn't their livelihood. If it is being shot by a third party, the same rule applies for him/her.
If anyone involved with the production supports themself through porn, then it is pro-am. Note: I'm talking production, not post production. If a couple shoots themself having sex and sends the tape to a company that distributes amateur porn, who then sells it, I would still consider it amateur porn.
If everyone involved makes porn for a living then it is professional (regardless of how "amateurish" the production may appear).
Platinum Media - The Cure for Common Porn 21 Posts 1/04
Posted - Feb 7 2005 : 11:30PM
Interesting topic ..... The Best answers I've read so far was from Bill and astroknight.
In my option ( if anyone cares ) - Most porn is made up of two components - The people involved in the shoot and the people involved in the final production. The One (and only) company that I feel keeps the "bells and whistles" out of their movies is Shot at Home. We'll assume that "ALL" his movies are really shot by the couples participating "as it happened" and that the Video isn't dressed up in post production makes it as Amateur as it can get.
For those who know us, we do not use any couple who all ready isn't a couple. Most of our "models" are Husbands and Wives / girlfriends and boyfriends etc. We DON'T pair up Models nor do we allow our Photographer to be part of the show. The difference with us is we have a camera person and add some minor theme to the shoot. But with BOTH Companies, our models are doing this for fun. Yes they get paid a few $$ but they are not paying their rent by doing movies. It's hard not to aggree that Mr. and Mrs. Jones making a movie is much more Amateur then hiring a girl from a local strip club to get it on with Ed Powers or Rodney Moore.
What has happened during the past 2-3 years is that people are seeing that "Amateur" SELLS - so Everyone is using Amateur in their titles. What is really sad is that the only company most people thought of as "True Amateur" was Homegrown Video. And if you are familiar with their line, you'll see why most of these current, so-called amateur film makers, are just abusing the word to make a Buck!
My vote - Keep it simple folks - a company might have a GREAT baseball team but surly they wouldn't be considered part of the Major League. The Girls like me are just plain folks - would NEVER work for anyone but the company they stared with and are not looking to become the next big porn star. We do this for the attention (I LOVE the Attention - hahah )not the money, and as most people are now seeing, small companies like Shot at Home and Platinum Media are gaining more popularity every day due to our Definition of "Amateur"
I'll shut up now ... OH! BTW - 2Big - You need to get out more - lol
I find myself asking this question all the time. On the web it is so obviously a marketing angle. All of big sites mentioned earlier, package seasoned pros as "amateurs" and "first time girls". It baffles me that surfers buy into, maybe they are just beyond the sales pitch and want to see hot girls.
As for DVD productions. I agree with astroknight. Shot At Home, and Hal Maroon are putting out some good stuff. At first I classified them as amateur but now I would prefer to see them in a subset of amateur called homemade porn. It is obviously made at home by the people starring in it. For me once you add a crew or a set but still use talent that is relatively new to the business, I would consider it real amateur, VMG Video comes to mind. When you up the production value and level of talent is gets to be pro-am like Ed Powers and Rodney Moore, and so on into the pro stuff.
I don't think you can use pay as a scale of amateur. I would imagine the majority of people picking up a camera to film the action whether as a crew or a couple, are thinking about making money. Even if they weren't thinking of it as the time of the shoot they think about it once they begin to look for distribution.
In fact I think the AVN's should separate the amateur category into Pro-Am, Amateur and Homemade in order to level the playing field for some of the smaller companies that keep the thirst for true amateur alive.
Michael Sinclair
[Link]
Darth-Morpheous Deactivated User
1701 Posts 3/02
Posted - Feb 8 2005 : 11:40AM
I enjoy some of the 'shot at home' stuff. It is great to see regular people having sex because it turns them on to be in front of the camera. However, it can be a bit tough to watch amateur stuff after watching top quality stuff from Jules Jordan, Mike John, and other great directors. After seeing perfectly shot hardcore action with beautiful pornstars doing anal with gaping and A2Ms, it's hard to then get turned on by average looking women in badly shot sex scenes. I would love it if a good director shot a line with real couples that are into some of the hardcore stuff.
I dunno about that. When he had Allie Sin on there, he asked her if she's a virgin. Which is laughable, because by then she'd already done Baker's Dozen 3 and had sex with 15 guys at once. It's all smoke and mirrors, man.
I think Bill hit the nail on the head. As soon as there's someone making a living on it, there's a pro element, no matter how "amateur" the feel.
Nope nobody cares... LMAO... I AM kidding I hope you know. *Points to the red hair* You've never seen a BKP movie have ya? LOLYou're right it is a bit different. But we use a lot of swingers in our productions. And because of some of the connections our owner *WINK* (We have a reverse slavery thing going on here in the office.) We've been blessed to have worked with some pornstars who have great friendships with him that lead to GREAT and very real scenes.HomeGrown still is VERY true amateur. They have HGV and Xplore Media which has launched the careers of a couple of people. Stephanie Swift worked with them in the early days of her career as did Sean Michaels. But pic up HomeGrown Video 621 and 650 both produced by BKP and see just how amateur that is. Cluster fuck is more like it. I think the point I have been trying to make for my part is that I do not think there will ever be an agreement on what is amateur and what isn't as it seems the definition is so subjective to perspective. Kind of like what is obscene? LOLI dont know I think that Jenna and Tera get quite a bit of attention and the money to go with it. LOL I'll have to check you guys out.Janay - BKProductions
Tony with all due respect I think you have a FILM fetish. You dont have like miles and miles of celluloid at home and on those steamy nights you wrap yourself up in it? Use it to masturbate with? C'Mon we're all friends here you can tell us. LOL Oh I sooo need to stop. Im sorry. All in good fun.
Did Marie do porn before or after you shot her for Marie and Jack? I understand she got implants and went on to do more work after your film. Is that where Fleshbot.com is getting the Pro/Am tag from?
By the time she worked with us, Marie was already a full-time performer, and had appeared in over 50 porn videos, including a boxcover appearance on the Wicked Pictures title Restless .
M&J makes no attempt to conceal this from the viewer. In fact, Marie's work in adult video, and how this effects her relationship with her husband Jack (most especially their sexual relationship), is the driving force in the film's narative arch.
I'm not puzzle by the "Pro"; it's the "Am" that has me scratching my head. Unless of course they're refering to the quality of the filmcraft.
Is the boyfriend amateur? Maybe they assume a documentary is amateur? the "newness" of Comstock? the different approach?
I still have to see that damn movie. My local video store has three isles of blood-curdling anal but no Marie & Jack. Of course I should be able to track it down on VOD now right? (I think you've provided a link before)
(Off-topic p.s. we may tease the shit out of you over film but you have the right idea... for the moment anyway. Digital will catch up once manufacturers have sold enough current technology.)
Well setting aside the possiblity that they meant professional talent and amateur filmmaking, I think they used Pro/Am because they just couldn't come up with porn catagory that was a better fit. I hope that our films have the authentic heat of real amateur videos with filmcraft that's at least as good as a cable distributed indie.Here are some rental/VoD links for M&J.My guess is 2-5 years for Super16, 5-10 for 35mm; after that it's all electronic.
Im sorry I just couldnt resist. Still love me? Actually my boss had her as a co hostess on his radio show once. I hear she's REALLY nice. Not to mention really hot and sexual.
At the risk of sounding like a Comstock film fetish disciple (not that there's anything wrong with that ...)and a momentary thread diversion, I've been watching some great sexy films shot on film twenty years ago. They still have all the lush beauty that they would have had when they were first made. I don't know if would be the case with something shot on video? Then again, longevity may not be an issue and I guess that they would have had to have started out lush and beautiful to stay that way. Ah what do I know...
I am not so sure you are correct on your assumptions. Finding and shooting true amateurs was how I got my start in the adult business. I pounded the streets of the East Coast for years in search of talent. My "Rusty Boner" series used many true amateurs. Housewives, swinging couples, college students etc. They worked for me and went back to their ordinary lives.
I still run into talent that will shoot for me and than call it quits. I even shot a first and only time girl that was in my feature movie "Dark Desires". This movie aired on Playboy TV's primetime "Directors Cut Theatre" last year. She auditioned for the part and was very comfortable on camera. So she now has the bragging rights of being on Playboy TV and was a true amateur.
[Link]
DenverDon Benevolent
Firmly Embedded in Depravity 5914 Posts 7/02
Posted - Apr 24 2005 : 9:09PM
Lisa,
... take Guy Y and put him with Lisa Sparxx ...
astro said this was pro-am, and you are the pro. He didn't imply that you're new.
I don't care whether a video is amateur porn or not. I mean amateur porn is commercial porn, too.
Some performers like their job , some don't. It doesn't matter whether they do 1 video or 100. It doesn't matter whether they are married couples or not.
Introducing Dallas Rea
Posted - Feb 3 2005 : 8:00PM
