Just got my copies of The Gate and Appassionata and am wondering where the market is for all this extra stuff on adult dvds. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Adam & Eve and Wicked both spent a fortune on these dvds, but in the end do any of us really care about 36 minutes worth of behind the scenes footage from a porno? They're both excellent, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I still would rather see hot chicks/couples having sex (not degraded mind you) with only a few shreds of story in between scenes if any at all. I've purchased many a compilation tape in my time. If I want to watch a movie with a story, then I'll watch a mainstream movie.
Just curious about other opinions here. Does all the extra time, effort and money really matter in the end when most of it just gets fast forwarded through anyway? Not trying to piss anybody off, just being honest.
I think it's important to have both features and all-sex porn, just because everyone has their own preference. Some people just want to see sex, while others like a little more creativity. I agree that if you want to see a story, you'd get a mainstream movie, but the same argument could be applied to any erotic B-movie out there (why waste time with a "prison story" when you really want to see chicks taking a shower? ). The answer is that it's entertaining, maybe exciting, and probably a lot more acceptable to watch with someone who isn't a pervert.
Personally, I like both all sex and plot driven porn, as long as they have the following:
1. Hot sex 2. Solid production values 3. A good story/pretense or none at all
It seems like a lot of studios exchange #1 for #2 or #3. Or have #1 but neither of the others. And a lot of videos have none of the above!
Sure, you could fast forward, but I hate that (especially since most DVD players don't have the granular FFWD control that VCR's did (i.e. smooth scan, fast response, and accurate control). So if the non-sex can keep my attention, it gets high marks from me.
As far as the extras, that's a direct result from the expectation set by mainstream DVDs to have a lot of supplemental features, as well as a need to justify the high price tags. And some people actually want to see that behind-the-scenes stuff (although I think seeing too much of that totally ruins any of the fantasies you might have about porn stars).
I enjoy reviewing and owning special edition discs like THE GATE as a collector and a fan. Back in the days of videotape, we were lucky if we got any info on the production outside of the closing credits.
Granted, if I was just a casual viewer, I probably would not give it too much regard. But I am grateful that studios are catering to the discriminating consumer and those who want more than just the main feature itself..
I'm not so sure that The Gate does live up to its hype. Just because there's a lot of something, does that make it good? I was bored by The Making Of, I thought that the bloopers sucked and as far as the other bonus material, am I really gonna have time to watch the movie once w/o commentary and two more times with different commentary? Probably not. I thought the "Interviews" were just more babbling from the set. Everybody's different, but why do I need to see crying and crazy people and violence mixed with my sex? I don't get it, but I guess I don't have to, there's enough people out there who are willing to pay for this stuff and have the time to watch it. Hell, I don't even have the time to watch the features that come on my mainstream DVDs let alone my porn DVDs.
I guess I've always liked the low production value of porn and the bad acting and the cheesy music. That's part of the charm and excitement about it.
The Gate and Appassionata, not for me, I'd rather watch some of my old tapes from the 80's where they weren't trying so hard and it didn't matter. I think in this case we can agree to disagree.
I did wonder, before reviewing it, whether I would find THE GATE as being form over substance...but the sex scenes with Bridgette Kerkove and Kaylynn worked on me. As I stated in the review, the psycho-drama aspects might turn viewers off, but I think the sex scenes stand-out apart from the context of the storyline.
And I agree with you that one has to find a lot of time to review all the bonus materials. But these extras are meant to enhance the viewing experience and be seen leisurely, so whether I watch every second of them or not, it's still nice to have.
You are right, however; all the extras in the world can't save a main feature with bad sex scenes.
Diesel – I am so happy you liked it, and agree with all of the points you made. Especially the total package I tried to give with The Gate. God I was wondering if people where going to review it at all there for a minute. Did you see some feedback results in The Gate? Oh and that logo disable was for guys like you, and me. I don’t care for it myself. There are two Easter eggs on The Gate for those of you that care.
As for you Mr. Simpson I don’t agree with you, but I respect your position. I myself think that anytime anything sits and does nothing and just stays stagnant that it is a bad thing. I want to push the scope of what we do. I want to try new things and go in new directions and still give the public hot sex and a good quality product. (It is X after all.) There are two types of porn viewers. Actually three
1. People that like plots with their porn. 2. People that don’t like plots in their porn 3. People that don’t care as long as it’s porn
I, personally just love well-made stuff. I watched Rocco’s way to love from Evil Angel and it was great. (That Kelly girl is fucking something else, thanks Tricia) It had basic menus and a few cool extras but mostly it was done well. The movie was brutal in a good way. I loved it and I got up to 13 shots in the yaper that that gal took before I had to get to her and THE ROCK. Kelly is one to keep your eye on. I think you would like that title much more than one of mine. I make titles that the DVD FAN will enjoy. I try and give every thing I can to every viewer. I hate PHOTO galleries! I think they’re lame but I put them on everyone one of our DVDs because some people really like them.
Tricia and I were talking the other day and we laughed that we don’t really compete. Our products are completely different and stuff I would do she wouldn’t or can’t because of type of product it is. Most of the time in gonzo there are 4 people on a set. On a Wicked set there could be 20 people. That allows us to do stuff she can’t and let’s her get more intimate, and with new talent you need that.
So in a nutshell it’s ok you don’t like our DVDS or maybe just The Gate. There is plenty of good stuff out there for every taste and everyone. ADT is a good place for people with discriminating tastes to find the Adult DVD that best suits them. VIVA LA WICKED I’m out.
Plot and sex tend to interfere with each other - if you insist on (1) a traditional plot and (2) porn style sex scenes with the usual formula of multiple positions and pop shot ending.
I imagine production values, if they translate to lots of people at the set and long wait times between takes, would tend to interfere with the spontaneity (believability, heat, whatever) of the sex.
Which intuition would actually corroborate Saki's point: either you get hot sex and minimal story/production or a slick movie with lackluster/artificial sex.
Possible solutions for (1): (a) Give up traditional plotlines and go for surrealism like certain movies from Greg Dark, Michael Ninn or Antonio Passolini. (BTW: are there other recommendations to watch in this category?) (b) Abandon the porn formula sex scenes - they are getting old anyway.
Nobody is doing (b), right? Except in mainstream/art films. A variation of (b) would be using sex scenes that are integral to the story - they could, for instance, contain important dialog. That would require more from the script and actors.
I watched the Chasey Lain movie Nymph the other day. What I thought interesting was that the basic story idea seemed to be quite good: with some work it could have been a good mainstream/softcore romantic comedy. For instance, there were some nice touches about the water nymph character and her need to be near water at all times. As a XXX movie, it was not as great, because certain plot points had to be glossed over or introduced in a ham-handed manner, to make way for the sex scenes. And some of those did not sit well with the concept.
Condoms? When screwing a supernatural being who emerges from thin air when you turn on the shower? That is really safety-conscious.
Nymphs, it seems, materialize always without clothes - except for heels - but are equipped with strap-on dildos, if needed, when they ravish the mortals.
Which doesn't mean I did not enjoy watching the movie - only it seemed it was not as good as it could have been, given the story. (Want a review?)
Then there are movies like "New Wave Hookers" which is fun to watch again and again because of the great and surreal Gillis/Baker dialog scenes, but when the sex starts, I either FF through it or watch it with a clinical detachment except for the Ginger Lynn scene with nerdy young Tom Byron and the other guy, which is instant stiffy material even with the embarrassing 80's look. Ginger just has this sexy air about her.
But I digress. Which of David's groups would I fit in? I like a plot if it doesn't suck. I like gonzo it it has a real quality to it. (Which is hard to define.) But there's like a different kind of filter in operation when watching one or the other.
One more thing that I thought of when reading Doug Simpson's original post: the behind the scenes material included on a DVD could well be most interesting thing on it, if not the only interesting thing - at least you get glimpses of porn stars being themselves. (This is not a comment about The Gate or Appassionata, which I have not seen.)
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Planet Sex Deactivated User
1951 Posts 6/01
Posted - Jun 21 2001 : 3:26PM
I don't know what will came out of Wicked's efforts, but at least they're trying something bold and daring in this newborn market, the DVD.
Someone always has to be the first, and if they're the ones with the guts, well, more luck to 'em. I have nothing but respect for people who dare to take a step beyond.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jun 21 2001 : 4:07PM
I'm glad David mentioned our conversation about not being true rivals. Sure, we both make porn DVDs, but for the most part for a different audience. It's so cool to be able to talk to someone from another quality company and be able to be totally honest about problems and ideas and all that. And it's great to bounce ideas of each other, because it pushes each of us to do new and different stuff, which is good for everyone involved, especially the fans.
I watched The Gate (thanks, David) and really liked it as a DVD. It felt very mainstream to me. Sure, there were some things that really felt very "extra", but if you don't like it, you don't have to look at it. It's not like you had to pay a fortune extra for that second disc. It is actually VERY reasonably priced for a 2-disc set.
Anyway,
... this tends to be the case, but not always, and it definitely doesn't have to be. The main problem is that the directors who make better sex flicks tend to be ex-perfomers who get excited by the sex and it shows. Unfortunately, many of them don't know much about how to make good production values. (Again, not always the case.) On the other hand, a lot of the directors who care a lot about really concentrating on the production values probably secretly wish they were in mainstream, and don't care about the sex. (Many high-end porn directors are known to leave the set during the sex.) So, maybe two directors should come together to make the ultimate porn with a plot and great sex? Just a thought.
Anyway, I got really off-topic. On-topic: I thought the Gate was really well done as a movie and as a DVD. I would recommend it to porn DVD fans, fans of Alexa, or of Sydnee Steele.
Note to David - Glad to hear you enjoyed Kelly. (I've got a couple more of her coming out in the next 6 months. I'll keep you happy, babe!!!!)
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Planet Sex Deactivated User
1951 Posts 6/01
Posted - Jun 21 2001 : 5:16PM
Completely different styles, I must say.
And that's excellent. Variety is the spice of life.
When Stagliano popularized the gonzo (?) style, I was afraid that the porn movies with plot + high production values would die.
(* * * BTW, Tricia, John's movies just APPEAR to be cheaply made; there's hours and hours of carefully timed editing there, and editing is the thing that can make or break a movie * * *)
Happily, there's oranges and apples aplenty for everybody.
Sorry for this late response. It was my absolute pleasure to review THE GATE, and it was one of those few times where I thanked Shannon (my Editorial Director) for having the opportunity to look at it (usually, I bitch and moan over having to review "lesser" videos from other companies).
But let me be honest. I can't find the Easter eggs, and my competency at figuring out these kinds of puzzles is below average. I get frustrated by video games (my best performance was getting to the "pie factory" at Donkey Kong...anyone remember that game?) and I am no better at navigating through complex DVD menus.
So if anyone can tell me how and where to find these little bonuses, I would be eternally grateful...
Diesel
This week on DIESEL'S DEN on Adult DVD Empire: Naughty and Nice Porn Stars!
Diesel, so far I only found one of them. On Disk One, go to Scripts, and then select Original Script. Go to the second page and then while the cursor is still at the word "Script" immediately press left on your arrow key. You will then get a minute and thirteen second production photo gallery of Alexa (no nudity though). I'll try to see if I can the second one as David Crawford was saying that he put two Easter eggs in "The Gate".
