Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Jan 17 2017 : 2:48PM
I would say that performers are artists. They put on a show for their fans. In music we refer to bands or singers as artists so I think the same applies in this case as well.
Absolutely! There's an art to fucking for the camera. To showing the audience the best shots in all positions.To camera work that is focused. It's movie magic when it all comes together to give the client what they want. Fucking is a part of being human. Two hot people fucking is entertainment. When they're good, it's a beautiful thing to behold.
I respectfully disagree. Some professional athletes have been described as artists (e.g. The Artistry of Stephen Curry) Politicians often cheat or trick others (the general public, potential voters etc) by persuading them to believe something that is not true which is the very definition of a con artist.
Adult performers are artists in the same sense that ballet dancers are artists. They are artists in the same sense that a piano maestro is an artist. They do not create the material, but their ability to imbue the material with life is essential to the success of the piece.
life's to short to watch shitty porn 51 Posts 9/16
Posted - Jan 17 2017 : 8:14PM
the question is "are adult performers artists"? Is an uninspired model with shitty lighting and fuzzy camerawork art? to some it is,especially those who acted in it and filmed it and edited it ect. It's a question that can't be answered because it's subjective .People have been asking "what is art " for century's .there is no answer.
I'd say that yeah, some pornstars and people in porn are "artists". Not in the way some people would define "artist" in that above and beyond most of humanity kind of way. But I think within their field there are pornstars and directors that do work that sets them above their peers and do it with consistence and style that others can't match or emulate. They're great at what they do and the audience responds to it. Most people won't give them their proper respect because it's porn and there's a certain mindset that what they're doing isn't that hard or it's low-class but it really isn't. Thousands of girls are in porn or have tried to do it but only a relatively small percentage of that number makes it to the top level of performer. And of that top level there's only a small number that can always deliver and shine regardless of the director or company. They make you want to see them and make you want more. They transcend the rest of the pack with quality work even when the conditions aren't that great. That goes for performers and directors.
The sports article was one example out of many where athletes are viewed as artists. Scott Cacciola is correct in his usage of the word... Artist (noun) 1. a person who produces paintings or drawings as a profession or hobby. 2. a person who practices any of the various creative arts, such as a sculptor, novelist, poet, or filmmaker. 3. a person skilled at a particular task or occupation. "a surgeon who is an artist with the scalpel" 4. a performer, such as a singer, actor, or dancer. 5. a habitual practitioner of a specified reprehensible activity. "a con artist" Is English not your first language? Go back a page and see where you wrote "It's like an athlete ,can he be art by the way he play's his position? Can a politician be art by the way he speaks? I'd say no". If you go by the dictionary then you'll see that the answer is yes. A porn actor is also an artist. An athlete can be an artist by the way he plays. A politician can be an artist by the way he speaks.
Yes I think they are. Art is not a mark of quality or skill, but intent. If the artist made something was intended to provoke certain kinds of reaction from you, whether that's poetry or porn, then it's art. Whether they succeeded or not, or did an elaborate production or not, is immaterial. Edited by - shhpuppy on 1/18/2017 9:21:41 AM
No, the "uninspired model with shitty lighting and fuzzy camerawork" isn't art. The same is true for the painter, dancer, musician, singer, etc., who does uninspired shitty work. Porn in and of itself isn't art. But there is porn that may reach that level. All pornstars aren't artists but some have that something about them and their performances that makes them an "artist" in their field. I don't think people ask "what's art". They know it when they see it. They just tend to not always agree if it's art when they see it.
I think "art" can be shitty but an "artist" can't be unless that's the intent.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:36AM
Short answer: Yes Art, Music, Film are all too subjective to say whether it is good or bad art and regardless of category, genre et al , and it is impossible to make anything that is universally liked, therefore someone somewhere will appreciate the aesthetics no matter how badly anyone else may regard it. Is everyone in the industry an artist? that is more problematic depending on your views about and/or if you feel that those only in it for the cash are artists or not. Are Directors artists? Look at Mason's work and tell me she isn't. Look At Gerard Damiano, Paul Thomas, Andrew Blake and Mason and tell me they aren't artists. Hell yes they are and yes it is art. Are Pornstars artists? 1st off, there is no difference between what any actor in Hollywood does as compared to what Keisha Grey does, the only difference is that the porn industry is way more honest about it. Pornstars don't fuck directors for roles. Are they prostitutes? No more than Halle Berry selling her talent to appear on film, porn just makes it explicit. You also have to ignore the stigma that has existed in this country since it's birth that sex is bad and everyone associated with it is not to be taken seriously or is to be ignored. I would feel safe wagering that for the right price, any actress in Hollywood would cross over to adult. You could argue that there is a lack of acting talent in comparison to the golden age, but there is no denying that Marilyn, Ginger, Annette, Aunt Peg and many others had acting chops, so if mainstream actors are artists, so are porn stars. Is Porn art and are the people involved artists? Yes, depending on your point of view. [Rant]: The problem comes when simple minded idiots try to tell the masses that they can't do something in the privacy of their own homes, just because a small minority doesn't like it and won't know it's happening unless they are told about it. I hate religion, it's heinously evil in my view, but guess what? I don't get to tell you that you can't practice it, extend me the same courtesy. Fuck off and stay out of my life. [/Rant]
life's to short to watch shitty porn 51 Posts 9/16
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 2:00PM
we all had 35 posts at one time,I feel honored that you feel I'm a red flag goldstein, no harm intended ,I thought this was a place where one can speaks one mind,I guess not.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 2:04PM
It is free speech. I do so love that people think free speech means people cannot flick you shit if they disagree with you.
Porn is not simply people having sex after somebody broke out a camera. Porn is as much about persuading us to lay aside our critical judgement as any mainstream movie, or Broadway play is.
life's to short to watch shitty porn 51 Posts 9/16
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 4:56PM
sometimes it is that simple.This website is filled with critical judgement.It seems that people here have more of a problem with the person who started this thread when all he had to do is google what an artist is. to each his /her own
^I started the thread. I don't think people have a problem with the thread. I think more people seem to agree that adult performers are artists. I know what the definition states but I actually don't consider them to be artists at all. However, I appreciate reading both viewpoints. I hope those who don't consider them to be artists aren't detracted from posting to this thread.
Fly Eagles Fly Super Bowl LII Champions Nova Nation 2016 and 2018 National Champions 5180 Posts 2/16
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 5:07PM
That's why I enjoy this thread, it's because of the different viewpoints. If everyone liked the same thing or thought the same way, the world would be a boring place. It's definitely an interesting topic/debate.
life's to short to watch shitty porn 51 Posts 9/16
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 5:22PM
I whole heartily agree fanofman .I appreciate everyone's opinion ,it's not to me as hardline as the strict definition, for each person's opinion here there's a subjective one .Life is still to short to watch shitty porn and yes there are some really really talented people in porn who rise to the top, the problem with the question is the line is different for everyone who enjoy's it.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 7:42PM
??
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:00PM
Those that manage to put scenes out that are remarkable and therefore will live thru ages above our's makes up for a definition in my fucking book of freaking cocksucking art.
^Do you watch Tushy, Blacked, or Vixen scenes? If so, do you find them to be remarkable that will live thru the ages?
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:30PM
That's a good chance, I believe. Taste shouldn't really be the most important matter. Quality will after all have a bigger value. But to stand out and reaslly get impact going, I believe in powerperformances to set things straight and to hit a bit harder. The combination must be the better one of those things.
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:34PM
I also believe in directors that hire the same guns over and over, like in old westerns.
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:39PM
By the way porn is the new western. I didn't see it coming for a fact until now, but now it's here. That must be a hundred years from now. To travel back to shootouts, well, I wouldn't put Money on that as an entertaining factor, I'd be surprised if people won't catch a lot more fun and excitement in those San Fernando Valley things being made With so much joy and effort on DVD from the early part of this century than most shit that was ever put out, be it what ever the fuck.
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 19 2017 : 8:44PM
This means I'm turning into some kinda future local cowboy for what it's worth. I should maybe get me some pistol and a Dragon Sign twitter account and start blasting.
At the 2017 AVN Expo, Kayden Kross was interviewed. She stated that "Sex on camera is so easily accessible, anyone can do it" She also referred to what they do as "genitals pounding" You can hear her entire interview at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHb5JwN5d-g&t=6s (6:00 to 16:15). Edited by - fanofman on 1/20/2017 10:56:05 AM
Why would anyone say they aren't. What makes a regular actor any more of an artist than a porn star? The acting might be worse in porn, and the lines fewer, but that doesn't change the "artist" part...
I think there are two separate discussions going on here. 1. Are there good artists in porn? 2. Is anyone who is filmed having sex by definition an artist? Lots of people here are talking about quality. Those people are answering that first question. But I think the thread is actually supposed to be about the second question. If I fuck and it's captured on camera, am I an artist? Or do I have to know it's being captured on camera to be an artist? And does knowledge of the camera by definition make one a 'performer'? Or do I have to willingly play to the camera to be a performer? If I ignore the existence of the camera, then am I not a performer? [edit: typo] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 1/20/2017 11:54:52 PM
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Jan 21 2017 : 1:41AM
Yes, the good ones make you believe the are into whatever role they are playing. People should watch the documentary "Hot Girls Wanted" which is about a stable of amateur girls working and living with this really unprofessional promoter. Also the documentary "After Porn." Have a friend who is a sex worker and she says ad much, as JohnsOr porn customers you are paying for performance and release.
But is the determination of whether or not one is an artist based on whether or not they are 'good' at what they do? I think if you're an actor in mainstream movies and you suck, you're still an actor. Maybe you shouldn't be. Maybe you should be an accountant. Or a janitor. Or a physicist. But you're an actor nonetheless. I'm trying to get at this: regardless of quality (or lack thereof), when do you cross over from 'someone fucking' to 'an artist'? Is it the moment the camera turns on? Is it the moment you notice the camera's turned on? Is it the moment you start to care the camera's turned on? Is it the moment you recognize that someone else will be watching this later? In other words, if you film yourself having sex, are you by definition an artist? Or does there have to be something more? Are you only an artist if there's a plot? Surely not. So what is it? And is it automatic? Is it like a switch? If you do _________ while fucking with the camera on, then you're an artist, but if not then you're just someone fucking with a camera on? And if so, what is that thing?
Posted - Jan 17 2017 : 1:54PM
Is English not your first language?
