So many of my favorite adult stars are no longer doing porn but are rather opting to make their own amateur clips and webcam shows. The problem with these is that they do not have the high production value like a regular porn shoot and are often WAY more expensive. The average clip goes for about $15.00, when I could get a month's membership to a site with WAY more content for $30.00. Also girls who cam often charge you if you want to actually see them do anything sexual. Obviously it seems like camming and clips make girls more money and is easier because they can do it at their home...but it is really hurting porn fans. I wish the lonely people would stop giving them ridiculous amounts of money for such lame content.
I don't think so at all. I think it's made the industry better as it has brought more variation, more exciting possibilities to the industry. I mean firstly I got the idea that superstars who are doing this, many of them are doing it on the side, or in some cases have retired from porn after a great career and are now exclusively doing camming. Fair dues. Well, secondly, the absolute BEST thing about live webcam porn for me is that, I go to a site like mfc and I can see y'know 'standard'/'regular'/'every day' girls doing what porn girls do. I've taken so many girls private on mfc and pretty much all of them have been stunned, amazed by how naughty and fun my private sessions are. I'm saying, regular girls with regular day jobs, in their own homes, completely naked, spreading their ass cheeks and showing off their asshole and playing with it all that Adriano stylin' stuff, live from their own homes, specifically for me and no one else. What could be wrong with that? And I've gotten more confident with stuff I ask them to do so the last one was a bank teller by day, living with her parents who had no idea what she does so she had to keep checking make sure they weren't home yet, and she absolutely loved anal, was perfectly open and willing to dirty talk. Oh and stunning. Like young Diane Kruger she looked like.. no word for how great this is man. So that is what camming has introduced. Regular girls, like girls you and I know.. playing with their asshole live on cam.. amazing. Besides, there are still tons upon tons of girls entering the industry, and doing the mega hardcore, both US and Europe.. and mostly only the mega porn superstars are retiring for full time camming, or just camming on the side while still in porn. I think camming just provides more choice, more possibilities, and makes things more mainstream. I know a woman who was talking very casually about how her daughter does webcamming for money on the side while studying.. doing her masters I think.
I really don't think it has much impact on porn. I think those going to cam and clip sites are probably looking for a different kind of content than most porn studios are making anyhow.Says darth lonely.
Most performers aren't resorting to webcam and clip stores instead of doing porn, they're either doing it in addition to it, or because they were never interested in doing professional porn in the first place. The mainstream porn industry has its own multitude of problems, but those things are nowhere near the top of the list.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Aug 13 2016 : 8:21PM
I'm going to paste a link to this thread every time another "porn is ruined because the industry is ignoring the fans" thread pops up. Just kidding. I don't have nearly enough spare time to keep up with all of the "porn is ruined because the industry is ignoring the fans" threads.
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 13 2016 : 8:42PM
I watched Streammate/Pornstars4cam for a while and noticed what a horrible ripoff it is. Say you want to see Viola Bailey, Gina Lynn, or Luscious Lopez's show. You enter their room and they are clothed. If you want to see anything they then send you into another room that is $4 to enter and $4 a minute. So if Gina does a 30 minute cam show you are charged $124. I also went on MyFreeCams which is a little better but not much. The girls work on tokens. For $75 you get 900 tokens. The girls set a limit that must be met (often 4000-5000 tokens) before they will do their solo show. I saw Ambercuties show and guys were tipping her 2000 tokens and the guy that tipped the most tokens of the night would get his name on a whiteboard behind her. Some guys tipped 5000 tokens. I saw Bree Olsen's show on MFC and both times she did not even get naked. She had on a bar and underpants and rubbed her pussy on a pillow between her legs but you saw nothing at all. Just her moaning while still clothed. These cam shows are all the rage and they are fleecing the guys watching out of large amounts of $$$ so why should they do porn and take huge cocks for 6-8 hours wrecking their holes when they can make more money camming?
Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Aug 13 2016 : 9:30PM
I see what you are saying, but I think that many of those models would still not be doing porn shoots, even without the clip stores and cam shows. Large studios seem to have plenty of new models to choose from and supply is not an issue. The issue is mostly on the demand side with consumers. Some small studios may be facing a different situation. Many of these smaller studios are located outside of big porn producing areas, and it is getting harder for them to find models. Because of low sales, many can only pay below market rates, so they cannot work with agents. Craigslist removed their category for adult jobs. Model Mayhem doesn't allow adult jobs to be advertised anymore. Backpage.com will still run ads for adult jobs, but now they only accept Bitcoin for those ads. So, small studios are feeling pressure on the supply side. I can't complain about clip stores though. Models seem to get away with much more in some clip stores than they ever could nowadays on paysites. Not big into cams though to be honest.
It's not direct competition of porn vs. camsites vs clipsites. Each is a different product with a different target audience. I prefer the solo aspect on clip/cams; the performer is in control of what type of things she wants to do, often based on feedback from fans and interaction with fans. Some performers develop specialty niches and attract loyal paying customers as a result. For fans, it's a more direct way to support performers, and a more direct way to request what you want to see. Yes the production values are different than with studio porn, but I'd readily trade technical quality for subject-matter quality.
Dude, considering the rate you stated yourself, mfc is actually really good for private shows man. So so many, so so naughty girls, you can take them private and have them do whatever you want as long as it's one of their tags or close enough, and you get to keep the show forever in archive (I've found many other cam sites do not include the archive feature which is a huge part of why I still think mfc is the best, that and I find it very user friendly and the range of girls is awesome - while some camsites are loaded with eurobabes, mfc has loads of British and US girls that can give me the experience of watching girls very much like the girls I know, doing all those naughty things). Sure public shows are tough, I don't pay any time or tokens on them man.. selfish? Maybe but I just use mfc how I want - private shows, and it is awesome for that. And I say why bother with the porn babes on mfc, trying to get a little something from big spending/waiting in public or whatever when you can take any girl next door type private.
Piracy and some legal factions in California are the only things really hurting porn. Camsites arent telling Kink and EvilAngel to tone it down, they aren't trying to get condoms into porn fullscale, they arent forcing studios to shift from California to Nevada. They aren't providing an outlet for people to cut out the studio's profit. Camsites, if ran right, offer additional revenue to performers and the owners of the sites; unlike the corporate tubesites that really dont provide much for performers to gain extra revenue. Yeah, it's expensive, but if you look at it as a virtual stripclub, it's the same trend, the differences I like: you cant get kicked out for simply loitering, and the girls are way more personal and interactive with you on these sites. Trust me, all the popular websites either own their own camsites or run one through a third party, if it was hurting their profit, they would wage war, not ally. There is also a new slew of girls that arent even in professional shoots that are more stunning than the average active actress. I go to camsites for all my solo, g/g, and fetish fixes. Plus, some of the toys I've seen used on camsites are probably the only places I'll ever see them. My favorite is the flesh torso with the massive replica shaft
ManyVids (clip site) seems to be popular now. I've seeing girls who indicate they aren't getting booked much posting 3-4 clips per day on this site.
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darth_lonely Deactivated User
9 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 18 2016 : 10:16PM
At least someone agrees with me!
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 18 2016 : 10:32PM
I saw one report that said some top cam girls are making $20,000 - 25,000 a month. You gotta do a lot of porn to make that much.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 3:23AM
webcamming is taking a lot of money away from porn, no question. Look, commercial porn is easily pirated. Webcam shows are all unique. So, there is some appeal to spend the money there. Also, webcamming has this personal touch (perceived or real, doesn't matter). The guys on there see it is just regular people hanging out and they chat and say hello or pay for a private show and talk and tell them what to do .That personal contact is something you can not get with a porn release, and its gives the customers some sense of "hey, they like me".... it works. Yeah, you won't see some super hot girl getting a super hot DP or something in a porn, however, that perceived personal touch makes a huge difference. For a lot of people, they want to see hot porn, they torrent it. They invest their hundred bucks into webcam shows and feel like they "made a friend" . The well paid cam girls have a huge pool of regulars who drop a few bucks a week and it all adds up. THey talk, have conversations, etc. Webcams like chaturbate are a good middle ground between going to see an escort, and buying commercial porn. You get some benefits from both areas with the personal contact and talking an escort can provide, to the sex on your screen of a porn shoot. And it is not risky like getting caught with an escort or your SO finding a porn stash. When you close your browser it is gone, no need to hide video files deep in your hard drive or bury DVD cases somewhere. It is very appealing I think ALL porn performers should consider adding chaturbate (or something similar) to their portfolio of income making opportunities. If they work the crowd in a personal nature and get a lot of regulars, it can actually make enough to take escorting out of the equation if they wanted to do that. I know a girl who is not a porn performer, just someone wanting to make money. She and her boyfriend do blowjob shows 3 times a day. They made peanuts the first couple of months while they built up regulars. (a lot of times they made nothing). Now, they have a enough regulars they are making 50 - 200 bucks a show and are making around 10 grand USD a month and quit their jobs and this is what they do. Not a bad way to make a living. A lot of people try camming, make nothing to first few times, and quit. You have to put in 2 - 3 months of daily shows to build up that user base.. and then you roll.
Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 8/19/2016 3:28:01 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 3:27AM
^ Is there really any evidence that 'a lot of money' is being taken from porn by webcamming?
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 3:29AM
Well, you can look at it two ways I suppose. People are spending their money there and pirating commercial porn, or, this is "new money" that has nothing to do with porn buying, I lean towards the former as people generally have a fixed income of what they can dump into porn and so paying for the unique content and pirating the commercially available product is what I think would happen. Nobody really knows, we just know that a lot of money is going into camming. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 8/19/2016 3:30:00 AM
^ The question you have to ask yourself is "If this money weren't being spent on camming, would it be being spent on regular porn"? And I think the answer to that question is no, for the most part. If these people weren't giving the money to the cam girls, they wouldn't be giving it to a porn site, because not spending money on cam shows doesn't change the fact that there's tube sites out there for them to watch videos for free. Or more to the point, for most people the reason they aren't spending money on porn isn't because they don't have the money, it's because they don't think it's worth it. And to turn the question the other direction, the idea that if these women weren't camming they'd be shooting "regular porn" if they aren't active performers, or shooting more scenes if they are, isn't really true either. There's somewhere between very few and no performers that are going to turn down being booked for a scene to do a cam show instead, and the vast majority of the performers that solely do webcam would be doing something instead of porn in they weren't camming. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/19/2016 5:43:14 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 7:47AM
I'm obviously a regular porn viewer and have zero interest in webcamming. I think a lot of porn viewers aren't looking for that kind of interaction. Different people like different things. Just because you watch porn doesn't mean you want to go to strip clubs, frequent escorts, etc.
I've been lurking quite a bit on Chaturbate this year, and it seems for every person tipping for the interactive experience, there are 999 more just freeloading ("greys"). Before free-to-view webcams like MyFreeCams and Chaturbate existed, those greys weren't just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. So it seems reasonable to assume that webcams are pulling viewers away from traditional porn, not ruining it as the OP suggests, but certainly competing and taking a piece of the pie. The technology also has a lot of room for improvement, and competition between the performers is fertile, so I can easily see webcamming becoming the predominant entry point for pornography in the future. Most models already sell homemade clips, and I'd imagine professionally made ones would sell too.
^ But were those "greys" paying for porn before? That's my point. The people freeloading on MFC are more than likely the same people that have been visiting tube sites for years and years. As in, they were never paying for porn in the first place.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 8:16PM
There does not seem to be a future in tubesites most are filled with viruses and commercials it seems they have ran their course. Clip sites are good for a while but the actors don't have the money to make high quality consistent content. Webcams are alright but the women don't seem to stick around long. Unless they start out with a great audience they are gone in a few weeks or months. Porn seems like it is the best long term option but consumers should be dictating what is made that means restructuring the industry.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 8:48PM
Looks to me like customers are restructuring the industry and it looks a lot like clipsites and camming. It never ceases to amaze me how many people on here claim "the industry" is failing or ignoring them, because most or all of the content produced doesn't match their exact wishes.
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 19 2016 : 9:14PM
A post was made on Mike South's site about how cam rates are too high... Sabrina Deep responded with this: LoL! My cam rates are much higher than that. I don't understand what makes you think that there should be a flat, cheap rate to watch cam shows. This is not communist Russia in the 70's. There's a market, a lot of competition and a lot of options for customers. There are girls charging 1 dollar a minute and girls charging over 15 dollars a minute. It depends what you want to see. If you think that 30% of 124$ for 30 mins (to use your example) is greedy, well.that's 75 bucks an hour, except that for completing that hour much more working time is needed, sometimes even 3 hours; that makes it 25 bucks an hour before taxes and expenses. I don't what your job is, but 25 bucks per hour for hammering your holes with a dildo and dealing with trolls constantly seems everything but greedy to me. If you consider that a girl-girl scene for a reputable producer is paid 800$ on average.I mean, do the math.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 1:57AM
Clipsites and camsites are to porn what hulu and netflix are to cable tv. And it is totally customer driven. No doubt it has been made possible due to technology advances, and the proliferation of high speed internet, but customers are realizing that instead of paying for a bunch of stuff they'll probably never watch, or paying to own media they'll only view once or twice they are going to an à la carte model. That doesn't mean that porn is doomed in the near future (neither is cable tv) but a whole bunch of people that weren't satisfied with what they were getting from mainstream porn have found an alternative way to get content. And I agree that not all of the people using clip/cam sites are traditional porn refugees, but I sincerely doubt that all/most of the people keeping those sites in business have never purchased porn before. I know I've moved some of my spank funds from web subscriptions to cam sites.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 2:25AM
^always a pleasure to hear the ADT authority educate us.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 2:34AM
That strikes me as remarkably naive and ahistorical. These are billion dollar corporations, they are popular, I use Netflix a lot, but it is silly to think that anything is simply 'customer driven.' The art of the entertainment and advertising corporations (which are now one and the same thing) it to create that illusion in the consumer.
Netflix started by filling a niche that was being ignored. Back when I signed up for them, you couldn't avoid getting a free month card shoved in your bag at Best Buy. However, Blockbuster Video wasn't renting DVDs then. I even talked to both of the local stores and they both said they weren't going to get DVDs in because they were a fad. At least where I lived, if you wanted to rent a DVD, you had to go through Netflix. I switched to them. Many others did. That's how they grew by providing customers what they wanted.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 1:55PM
Take Nexflix and Hulu out of the equation and clips, webcams need a strong porn industry. If porn dies it won't necessarily kill webcams and clipsites but the women who use porn as a springboard won't have that option anymore. Consumers won't have porn as a reference point or news source for new talent and trends. There is no telling what might happen without the porn industry.
You will have to show me where you saw that report because if I use those amounts than a top cam model can make on average between 240,000$ to 300,000$ per year. Sorry but I don`t think there is a box of salt big enough for me to swallow those numbers without actual facts to corroborate them.
^^Forbes published an article stating some can make $20K per month. However, I'm sure that is the exception rather than the rule. Another CNBC article quoted higher numbers. All this is self reported and coming from the cam site owners so who knows what is fact or fiction. Edited by - fanofman on 8/20/2016 4:30:53 PM
^ Forbes.com contributor, not Forbes directly, which is important because it means they're not required to do as much research/fact-checking than if they were actually employed by Forbes.
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 5:00PM
Just in the few hours I watched AmberCuties show on MFC that night she probably made $1500-2000 in tokens. She also sells her solo videos and other prizes. She does a show just about every night.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 5:21PM
I like Netflix for the same reasons as everyone else but there's always more at play than just customer demand, technology and the market, politics are not organic and tranparent processes that just reflect customer demand. They are dominant because of being one of the first to market but they are also dominant because of huge financial backing (if they were a mom & pop operation you think they'd be where they are?), business partnerships, political wrangling to maintain the advantage of zero regulation, marketing, etc.
Last October the token earnings of the top 250 models on MyFreeCams were leaked due to a technical glitch and of course it was immediately copied and analysed. The top 10 actually made several times the amount mentioned above. Google it, it's been discussed on many sites. MCF pays models $0.05 per token and the customer pays between $0.08 and $0.10 per token, depending on how many you buy at once. The highest public tip on MFC was 999.999 tokens, do the math. Jacco
^ I hadn't heard about that leak, and looking what's left of it now it looks like basically the top 75-100 MyFreeCams women for any given month make about that much. Which makes me wonder how many women consistently place in the top 100, and how much work they have to put in to do it. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2016 6:09:49 PM
The NY times did a pretty good article about camming. It covered most of what's been mentioned here but the thing that I found fascinating was that one of the web cam models was moving to a "destination city" so that she could have frequent "dates" with her visiting "cam-Johns"-not sure what to call these guys- so that they would take her out to the local restaurants, in this case, in New Orleans. Sounds like the "dates" would be chaperoned by her security guy---tb
I'm not going to argue the validity of the data offered concerning cam model salaries because I simply don't have any other source of data to prove otherwise. I'm willing to agree that some models can make huge amounts of money but I find it hard to believe that the average salary is as high and I have an even harder time believing that a cam model can continually earn huge amounts of money if for no other reason than the cost to the customer is so high. Unless there are a bunch of multi-millionaires who love cam models and they are the ones ones tipping those huge sums. Call me naïve but if porn performers have a hard time earning a living just doing porn because the job offers are so few and the talent pool is oversaturated with women fighting for the same offer than how can cam models earn even a fraction of a porn performers salary when their talent pool is so staggeringly bigger than porn?
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 8:56PM
There are lots of girls in porn. Some are skanky, some are so-so, some are average, and some are the cream of the crop. Its the same with cam shows. Lots and lots of average, below average, and downright fugly women doing cam shows and making some money. But cream rises to the top and MFC top 100 girls are making serious bank but they have to work for it. Ambercutie has been in the top 10 and this week is her 7th Anniversary working for MFC.
^ Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if top 100 MFC girls are putting in 30-40+ hours a week, and that's just being on cam (not to mention everything they do off cam to prepare, and the fact that a whole lot of them produce non-MFC related content that they also use MFC [and sites likes Clips4Sale and ManyVids] to sell).
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 9:14PM
The problem with the numbers on webcams is it does not consider trolls. People are paid to drive numbers on blogs and websites so are bots. The organizations who subsidized porn did the same with webcams. Now the bubble could be about to collapse. Chaturbate does not use as many ethnic models from 3rd world countries as they once did. That suggest funds are running low the same with tube sites they are relying on ads and viruses because traffic is not there anymore..
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Pennywize Deactivated User
310 Posts 8/16
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 9:29PM
AmberCutie is a very good looking woman but I am not gonna drop hundreds of $$$ in tips for her. I have more important things to do with my money. Streammate/PornStars4cams is outrageously priced. I hope them fuckers starve and go out of business. MFCs is a little better priced but still not worth hundreds of $$$.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Aug 20 2016 : 11:38PM
Frame it however you will. Every single NetFlix subscriber has voluntarily, under their own free will signed up for that service either in addition to, or instead of paying for cable TV, buying or renting discs, or other more traditional forms of media delivery. No matter how much help NetFlix may have gotten from studios, the government, the Illuminati or lizard-like aliens, they still wouldn't be a billion dollar company unless their users made the conscious choice to pay for NetFlix service. That is unquestionably the customers, shaping the market. Frame it however you will. Every single MFC user has voluntarily, under their own free will spent money with that service either in addition to, or instead of paying for porno mags, DVDs, website subscriptions or other more traditional forms of media delivery. No matter how much help MFC may have gotten from studios, the government, the Illuminati or lizard-like aliens, they still wouldn't be the size they are unless their users made the conscious choice to pay for the MFC service. That is unquestionably the customers, shaping the market.
