Porn peformers who have recieved the right advice and are looking at this career as a business - not just a quick paycheck- are incorporated. Many, many girls are.

I work for my own corporation. A company doesn't employ me - they contract with my corporation.

I have the full responsibilty to earn a profit or a loss. - If I negotiate too low of a rate and then factor in travel time/expenses, outfit expenses, hair/grooming expenses, marketing/advertising costs, telephone expenses, etc. and lose money... that is possible. If I negotiate a high enough rate - I make a profit.

I am not paid per hour; I am contracted for a specific service. - If the shoot takes 1 hour or it takes 6 hours I get paid the same.

I have the right to perform services for others .- I can work for as many companies as I choose. Not only do top girls make their money from many different companies, but they also make a lot of money from many different profit centers - websites, appearances, dancing, retail sales, etc. Movies is just one part of their company's financial income.

I have the sole right to control and direct the means, manner, and method by which the services contracted will be performed. - We negotiate a contract of which I am a complete equal in -whether it is sex acts, rates, partners, dates/times, etc. They don't dictate. We both have the right to say no to a deal. When we make the deal - I have to live up to my end of the contract so during the scene the director has full right to tell me what to do provided it doesn't infringe upon the terms of our Agreement. That is why some girls don't do anal or creampies or interracial or double anal or whatever the hell they have the right to say they will do or won't do. Just like the director then has the right to decide if they even care to book that girl.

I furnish all equipment and materials used to provide the services. - I bring my own douches and enemas and outfits and sex toys.

The services required are performed by me and the director/company is not required to hire any assistants to help me. While I have the full right to hire assistants.

I do not recieve any training from the directors/companies in the professional skills necessary to perform the services required.

I am not required to devote full-time to any one director/compay.

The directors/companies do not provide any insurance coverage of any kind for me or any staff I hire.

The directors/companies do not withold from my compensation any amount that would normally be withheld form an employees pay. THEY CAN'T - THEY CONTRACT WITH A CORPORATION NOT A SOLE PROPRIETOR.

No company provides me with equipment or a fixed office location to work in. I have to have a home office to market my services to those directors/companies. I have to have my own phone, computer, and internet service - that I pay for - to contact them. I have to provide my own transportation to go and meet with them.

I control my schedule . - I only show up to work at a time and place our contract calls for - just like your plumber shows up at your house at the time you have agreed upon (hopefully!). Does that make your house cleaning service, your plumber, your electrician, your painter your employee? Of course not. I am free to work any day of the week or to not work if I desire. I can decide to only work at 8am or only after 5pm. It is all up to me. Then it is up to me to take or decline contracts with other companies based on the work and schedule they are offering me.

By the way - the analogy to mainstream Hollywood is silly. They may show up to a shoot that lasts 3 - 9 months and are given a schedule every single day that controls their every waking moment. They might be an employee for the duration of that shoot. Might. I show up for 3 hours. Many directors are lucky if their girl shows up at the time they have agreed on. We are in and out. (Yes, literally. :)

I am sorry - there is no chance I am an employee. According to the governments own definitions there is not a chance in hell.

Any director/studio who operates carefully and deals with girls who do the same does not have to worry.

Any girl who is not incorporated needs to take a hard look at it. In fact, if they are not - they either have not had the opportunity to get good advice about this or they do not make enough money per year to make it worth while.

Oh- the short answer to your question: yes.

Btw- I just got done reading an article on hardcoregossip.com debunking another one of pornlegends.com articles. I don't know who is writing there - but they don't do very good research and don't seem to understand what they are writing about.

In this example- no company who focuses on independent perfomers instead of contract girls is depenedent on any one girl. This author thinks that if you depend on an entire workforce that makes you an employer? lol Of course, porn companies need porn girls - but they don't need any one of us - there are 1000's more where we came from. It irritates me to read incredible fallacies in logic and see it passed off as a "concern" on porn news/gossips sites. Yes, I see now why Dcypher got so worked up about the article he debunked on his site from this "porn legends" site. What need is some critical thinking ability not some alarmist "what sells" form of "journalism".

Selena Silver

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Edited by - SelenaSilver on 4/28/2004 12:28:16 AM

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This debate has been "raging" for a long time, but when and if it ever gets legal, porn performers are not going to win any rights.

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The primary purpose of forming a company for most businesses is to shield the owners and principals from legal liabilities incurred by a company. There are various ways to 'pierce the corporate veil' as they say. A good attorney will also tell you that incorporating oneself as a single person corporation provides little to no personal legal protection from creditors or lawsuits filed against the company. Incorporating oneself can have other advantages though. The most significant being taxes, self-employed retirement plans, certain deductions, etc. It's not for everyone but it's certainly worth looking into.

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Also, just because I posted the Porn Legends article and posed the question that I did as a topic name, don't anyone jump to the conclusion that I think porn stars are employees. To the contrary, I have always thought of them as independent contractors (although 'contract girls' such as the ones who work for Vivid really do seem more like employees, but then they're already condom-only).

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Whether it be an LLC, an S-Corp, a C-Corp - I don't understand why more people don't get it. 70% of the total dollar figure of tax paid in the United States last year was paid by employees. How is that possible?

Simple.

An employe EARNS an amount of money; then that employee is TAXED on those total earnings; then that employee SPENDS what is left over.

A company EARNS an amount of money; then SPENDS whatever it wants to within the law; then it is TAXED on what is left over.

Porn chicks are allowed to quote Robert Kiyosaki, right?

Incorporating or forming an LLC is a VERY simple an inexpensive thing to do today. You just need to have the right legal advice to the right thing in YOUR situation. There is NO one best case for everyone.

I mentioned a corporation because for me - in my situation - an acutal C-Corp had the most tax advantages and I can deal with the paperwork requirements. The one person corporation concern Drew talks about - that depends on the state you are incorporated in.

For other people, the LLC will be a better fit - what you give up in total tax advantages might be made up in tax flexibilty (you can choose whether you want to pay taxes like a C-Corp or an S-Corp). The paperwork requirements are very small. There are some big advantages. But, depending on your state - LLC might be a bad call. Some states don't recognize them, some don't protect them - others do. If you are in a state with poor LLC case law and you think you might have a potential liability exposure... it is probably not a good idea.

Good legal advice is always the key. If you ever have someone tell you that one structure is the only way or the best way for every situation - run away from them as fast as you can. Every situation is different. A real professional will be able to determine yours.

But, in our biz - choosing a business entity no matter whether it is an LLC or a S-Corp or a C-Corp is critical to you financial future.

Don't let another company whose contracts SAY YOU ARE AN INDEPENDANT CONTRACTOR AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO COVER ANY INSURANCE FOR YOU BUT WHO STILL TAKES OUT EMPLOYMENT TAXES FOR ANY GIRL WHO IS NOT INCORPORATED "borrow" your money again.

Did you know that there are studios who do that? Who is giving them legal advice??? You can't have it both ways - but the 18 year old girl with no one to give her good advice doesn't know any better.

On the flip side, there are directors who are actually looking to book girls who are incorporated because it reduces their headaches and liability.

If you are a director or studio treating your girls like employees - you have to pay matching federal tax FOR THEM out of your pocket. You might have a HUGE tax liability at the end of the year ( I have heard a couple horror stories). Hire a girl who is incorporated and you don't have that worry.

Here is the bottom line - if you want to add 10-30% to your purchasing income without raising your income move from being a straight employee to being a company - no matter what the form.

It is easy to do. Educate yourself. Get good legal and accounting advice. It is worth it to pay a professional.

Oh, and I read the original article post again... The definition of an "employee" and an "independant contractor" neatly summed up in one sentence? Hardly. There are dozens of criteria the IRS uses to make that judegment. I addressed 12 of them (my bold points are actually IRS criteria). One either way doesn't make the determination - it is the sum of them.

Yes, I see why a studio has something to think about. But, if you are a porn girl and want to keep the money you make instead of paying too much of it in tax - get legal advice from an attorny who specializes in forming business entities. A corporation won't ever be ruled an employee if you also do the right things to stay within in the law.

Selena Silver

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See, IF the government used HIV and condoms to try to classify porn performers as employees - THEY HURT US DRAMATICALLY. We do NOT want to be employees. That means that I would give up every advantage I have to legally keep as much of my money for myself as I can.

That means that the studios will incur a crushing financial load that will force them to either pay us less money or go out of business.

The average porn only sells so many copies. It will only sell for so much. Regardless of what you read about the porn biz being a $4 billion dollar biz that doesn't mean that each movie makes that. The margins are very, very small. The way the porn guys get rich - they own their own product (which means they incur a financial risk and should be rewarded for that) and they DO IT THOUGH VOLUME.

PXP has to release a movie every week for them to get rich - each movie doesn't make them rich. It is the small profit on top of itself added up over and over and over.

That is why porn girls don't get paid $10k or $50k a scene. There isn't the money in the budget for it.

My advice to girls who bemoan that the get paid once by a studio and then never again while the studio sells that footage over and over - end up owning your own studio.

Jewel De'Nyle said on my radio show last week that from DAY ONE that she was in the biz she planned on owning her own company. THAT is the key to wealth in this biz. Educate yourself, work hard, and one day you will be rich like John S. from Evil Angel. You know what I mean? He started somewhere too; he paid a price too.

Don't try to make me an employee. That is BAD for me. That is bad for the studio. So who is good for??? If both of the involved parties are harmed by it; it must only be political ambition that is helped.

I am not saying condoms are good or condoms are bad. I understand what the Health Department is thinking - they probably have good intentions. But, if you don't really learn what is good or bad for someone -- your best intentions can harm them.

Selena Silver

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Edited by - SelenaSilver on 4/28/2004 1:37:36 AM

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an agent gets paid from the producer and the girl. Usually $100 from the company and 10-15% from the girl. i think of them as an employee of mine.hmmmm

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1) take a flat fee from the producer (the girl pays nothing)

2) take a commission from the girl (the producer pays nothing)

3) take a booking fee from the producer AND take a commission from the girl

There are several established well-known agencies and each of them use one of those three models. The most well-known three - each use one of those three models.

The more money you take - the more you should be doing for the girl and the companies. Are you educating and helping your girls on health plans, accounting, financial planning, publicity, law, incorporation, mental health, and sexual health? Do you help draft a career plan? Do you help that person acheive wealth? Do you help that person grow and acheive what the consider to be success?

A certain agency can take 10-15% from the company and 10-30% from the girl - that is 20-45%. What do you provide for that? And, is that too much?

Selena Silver

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I was incorporated, but I always worked at client locations, and did NOT maintain a separate business office, as like about 4 million other "independent contractors" that the new laws affected... maintaining a physical business office is a key factor in determining if you are eligible for classification as an independent or an employee... you MUST maintain a physical business office/address, and a mailbox at Mailboxes, Etc. does NOT count...

there's also the requirement of being licensed, carrying insurance, having a letterhead, paying taxes quarterly, etc, etc, etc... depending on your industry, the insurance(s) can be the killer (mine increased over 2500% as a result of Reagan's salvo)...

you can always declare a room out of your house as your business office and write off expenses on your corporate taxes, but it lessens the value of your home, because it's now minus one room (legally)... legal counsel is advised to determine what is best for everyone's situation because sometimes, it is better for some people to become employees while for others, it is better to be self-employed... the amount of your income is a helpful factor in determining the best option...

also, anyone can become a sub-contractor of an independent contractor (referred to as a general contractor) and avoid a lot of the requirements imposed on the general contractor because you're covered under blanket policies... that's the option I selected, and did that until bigger contracts allowed me break off on my own...

but what it all boils down to is if you work out of your business office, you are an independent contractor, and if you do NOT have a business office but work of out of your client's office, then you are an employee, whether or not that client sends you out in the field, and irregardless of any credentials, or licensing, or incorporation, or whatever...

but it's just another tax game, just like the boxcover name game...

What could have happened did.

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I'm glad that you've always liked me, Selena. The feeling is mutual, my dear.

PM

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http://www.keikosworld.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/keikosworld/

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Steve Holmes

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Bearing that in mind, PLUS bearing your scenario in mind, then if your personal company, with its own corporate office(s), contracts with multiple clients, and schedules you to provide service(s) at all of the client locations on the same day, then you are the independent contractor, and your company can take advantage of tax benefits provided by the Golden State.

In another scenario, in all ways similar to the above, except, instead of your company being awarded the contracts, it is another company that is awarded the contracts, and that company acts as your agent, and sends you to each and every one of theit clients on the same day, then you are either their employee, or their sub-contractor, depending on how you signed your agreement with the company responsible for providing the service(s).

How payment is made is inconsequential. Tax rates are calculated with different models than actual dispersement of monies. So, it doesn't matter if you don't work for the rest of your life. If you've made enough in that one day to equal the minimum annual income that makes a person liable to pay state income or corporate taxes, then you're responsible for those taxes.

Ahh! Doesn't that make you feel serviced?

Taylor

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But there are two additional issues. One is, as has been pointed out, state law, which defines IC's a smidge differently (and less stringently) than federal law, but also makes very clear that for certain issues, such as workers compensation and working conditions generally, IC's enjoy the same protections as employees, get their protection from the same places (like CAL-OSHA), and can sue for breaches under the same causes of action as an employee, and their IC status is BARRED as an affirmative defense by the employer. Anyone who has ever gone through a workers comp audit in Cali knows very well that you have to provide a list of all independent contractors who will be issued 1099's (i.e., whom you pay more than $600 in a year), and you have to certify that none of them were injured while performing services for you. Do ya think that your WC insurer wants to know for the love of paperwork? No, they want to know because those people are COVERED under your policy. So even if you ARE an independent contractor, even, as Selena points out very correctly, as a porn performer you WANT to be an independent contractor, when it comes to certain issues, especially the ones at hand, it won't matter. An IC CAN'T waive certain kinds of liability for the employer. But don't be fooled by the argument that if you don't pay for your own tests that you can lose your IC status. That's nonsense. An IC who works, for example, in a defense plant, doesn't lose his IC status because the government pays to screen him for security, or makes him take a drug test. Employers can have reasonable conditions for employment of both employees AND independent contractors.

One last point - Selena notes, again very rightly, that the companies don't want the performers to be employees. One reason is that they could be made to pay up to TEN YEARS of back contributions to Social Security and Medicare for every single performer, plus interest. That would be MILLIONS.

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