IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Feb 17 2003 : 8:33PM
This may seem an odd question, but it was triggered by the following odd findings.
As usual, I have posted my weekly series devoted to performers. This is how you responded to them thus far:
Euro Babe of the Week 12: Charmaine Sinclair: 2 replies - 94 readers American Babe of the Week 12: Kiwi: 6 replies - 139 readers Male Performer of the Week 4: Franco Roccaforte: 11 replies - 190 readers.
I think that is due mainly to people recognizing Franco's name more than the two girls you listed. As per your question, ABSOLUTELY!!! The girls are the fucking stars of porn. If I am not into the girl then I don't care what positions you shoot or how huge the load is I won't be watching.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Feb 17 2003 : 9:09PM
OK, before everyone starts to take this question too seriously, of course I think that for most hetero male viewers, the girls are the true stars of porn. I was just struck by the funny figures this week. Of course, name recognition is an important part, but I also would like to think that being offered the opportunity of looking at a hopefully pretty girl you have never heard of, also has its attraction. That is the point of the whole Babe series to start with. Why should I post pictures and information about a girl everybody is familiar with? I am offering the chance to ... hmmm (be careful Walter, you are in danger of sounding pompous again) ... broaden your porn horizons (cough).
So maybe the question should be: are you mainly attracted to what is familiar to you or do you like to find new faces?
Edited for spelling mistake; thanks to DenverDon and HoldenMagroin
Absolutely, 100%, it is the girls. When browsing what to rent and/or buy the first, second and third thing I check out is the female talent. Fourth I check the ADT reviews.
In answer to the second question, these forums are a great place to "broaden" my knowledge of and interest in the lovely female talents in the porn world. As a recent returnee to porn (I took a few years off during a marriage to a non-porn fan ), I have learned a great deal from these forums and from the Babe of the Week series of posts about the new stars that I should be checking out.
Of course we knew what you meant Walter. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Switching metaphors, you'll get plenty of hits to go with the misses so don't sweat it too much.
But not everyone here watches porn for the girls, but like I said it depends on my mood.
She-males, always in the mood to see a good one of them.
Females, my preferred choice.
Sometimes guys <read: gay>, but again, depends on my mood.
I read most of your Babe of the weeks, Walter, but I don't know a damn thing about most of them so for me, I can't offer any thoughtful comments. <I did enjoy Kiwi though.>
I am also not a big fan of Euro porn, or Euro girls, I do prefer American/Brazilian variety, so I rarely check out the Euro babes. <Just sold off most of my Private DVDs and have a few more to go.>
Between Sbando Boy's site and some of the pics and info you post we (or at least I) find someone we are not familiar with but really catches our eye. Then the search is on for a DVD showcasing the sweet young thing.
There's a phrase that's somewhat of an adage, - 'The girl is the star, the guy is a prop'. Unfortunately some of the guys performing forget that.
That's true. However, when the Babe is unfamiliar, there is not a lot that others can write about her (unless you want a lot of "She's hot" replies).
I think that replies automatically drive up the read count because the thread goes to the top of the list and folder shows that there are new posts since the last visit. If nobody has posted since my last visit, why would I go read the thread again?
If you are using the "read" count as a barometer of how much an individual "Babe of the Week" is appreciated, I think you are making a mistake. I think that a high read/reply count only means that you have chosen a recognizable "Babe".
I'd say go for it, but trying to find she-male performers, who make more than a couple of scenes (good/watchable) is hard enough. I wouldn't want to take on such a task, but if I did, it would be too much work for nothing, since she-male fans are in the minority on this board.
Oh, I know you are kidding, Walter. But I don't think you, anyone, or even me, could find all that many good looking she-male performers, who have made more than a few appearences. Euro girls are a dime a dozen as are American girls, they will be around long after the cockroaches die out <silicon>.
it is an odd stat, but i think its a cahin reaction kind of thing, this week with franco, as people know of him, more people post, the more posts you get, the more views you get with people coming back to it. while with the girls, i hadnt heard of neither of them, so i read the thread, and like a lot of people had nothing interesting to say, so didnt.
its a great series of threads and please continue to broaden our horizons
I enjoy finding new faces to watch, new series, new directors, etc. It is always enjoyable when one of these pans out and I have a new tangent to explore.
However, I also have plenty of currently unrealized areas in the tangents I am already pursuing. And I thoroughly enjoy fleshing these out as well.
While finding a fresh face is a marked thrill, the amount of chaff that needs to be removed from the wheat can be a substantial burden (markedly eased by your pre-fleshed posts however). Whereas, when further exploring a current fave, the possibility of positive payback is markedly higher, but the magnitude of the payback has far less potential.
I guess what I'm saying is that there needs to be a mix of current to new... perhaps 75% current to 25% new to optimize the discovery versus pure pleasure quotient.
Hmmm, I would say that whilst most porn viewers are male and they are watching to see the ladies, to say this equates to the ladies being the stars isn't necessarily to tell the whole story. If I watch a Rocco movie I watch it to see the girls and not him: but Rocco is clearly the star here, we can replace the dozen eastern european women out the film but Rocco would not be so easily replaced. During this last week a thread went up discussing the loss of male performers at Ana/Diabolic and whether this may impact more severely than the lost directors. I find it inconceivable that the loss of a couple of female performers would be talked about in such a way.
This is really a difficult question to answer definitively because the contributions of male and female whilst superficially similar are really oceans apart. For my own part the male performers are more important because if a new girl pisses me off she'll probably be gone in a year but if it's a new bloke doing the rounds I might be watching his stupid mug for the next decade or two.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Feb 18 2003 : 12:43PM
(mumbling to myself, like John McEnroe used to do back in the days when he was just "talking to himself": "I know I shouldn't do this. Let it be Walter, just let it be. Just look at another thread and forget this. Plenty of other interesting threads around.)
(Damn, I knew I couldn't resist.")
I am doing what now? The way you have read your own personal "meaning" in this thread, strikes me as bizzare. I don't even know what to ask you, so I can begin to understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.
Furthermore, I don't even know if people don't like my posts. Either they don't read them (and how can they be certain they don't like it then) or they don't let me know about it if they think I have been picking the wrong girls. I would much rather have feedback, positive or negative, than this silence. I said it before and I will repeat it now: I want dialogue, not monologue. This thread has been a wonderful example of this last point. I would like to thank bono-ONE, Den, Hardware, HoldenMagroin, BIGmike, DenverDon, Bill, Steph, vanish_062, aybesea and Sir Noel Plum for their contributions to this thread. Some of them even managed to make some very interesting points, to a post that was originally better suited for the World News & Nonsense forum. Now, would you care to ask them if I "questioned their sexuality"?
For years porn viewers have been bitching about the lame male performers. Decades. Now that we have lots of handsome, nice to girls and "energetic" studs (my favorites: Manuel Ferrara, Steve, Toni Ribas), we get all homofobic. The quality of the male performers can change the quality of a movie. I prefer to watch my girls posing in lingerie than being harassed by someone that I won't name. I like Franco/Teo a lot, although I can still remember him with his old and oily afro 'do and that cracks me up.
When I saw your name as the last person to post in the main forum and then saw the topic at the top of the page, I began laughing even before I got to your post.
I've only been preaching this very gospel for a few years now. Yes, the women are the object of our fantasy, but the male performers are our surrogates. If they aren't performing up standard then our fantasy suffers.
Rocco, Lex, Erik, Nacho,Mr. Marcus, Manuel, Brian Pumper, Mandingo and Brando Iron are my heros. Every time I watch one of the DVD's they're in I know "I'm" about to put in some serious work. Why do you think Rodney Moore isn't mentioned very much? Why do you think Mark Davis isn't very popular? It's because they tend to put in performances that make the viewers say "Fuck! I can do better than that" vs. "Goddamn, I wish I could fuck like that!"
It's the girls! But to call them stars, well, there are so many new ones that they become interchangeable meat! Who can remember their names, which many of them change all the time, anyway?
Let's say that the girls are the "attraction" for most of us.
I'm going to take walter's question seriously and have a chance to say that yes the girls are the stars, there is not doubt about it and if I have the chance to see my favorite porn-girl getting a good fuck from the likes of Rocco, Nacho, Lex. I will definitly pick a video with them in it. ..but there is a big problem with those porn-guys: Nacho and Rocco in particular (looks like Lex is doing the same) that I hate and is boring me to dead lately. They do forget that the G-I-R-L-S are the stars. If not, how can you explain this BS of constantly releasing videos were these guys are fucking 3-4-5-6-7-8-9 girls in the same scene in the lapse of 20 minutes. I mean clearly they think quantity (fuck) is better than quality (fuck). And not I'm not asking to see dps in every scene, all I want is my favorite porn-girl to get a decent fuck from these guys and there is not way she is gonna get it if she is gonna get fucked for only 2 minutes because the "Divo" has to make time for the other 4-5 girls. ...What is worst, this trend is getting wider. Tomorrow will be released Hardball 19? ..and just by looking the cover I can see that what I'm going to watch in that video is a lot of girls looking to the ceiling while only 1 or 2 of them is having sex (what a waste!)..How about a 1boy/1girl scene for change and fuck the girl properly for once. She is the star of the video and as a star, SHE deserves lots of screen time (no a few seconds you @#$%). ..So to finish with Walter's question: Are the girls the stars? ..YES! ..but somebody has to remind those fuckers about that!!
Yes and no. I can always remember about 50 girls that already left the biz, 50-100 currently in. The rest is fuck-meat basically, yes. But I do like them and do respect their willingness to sell body. Male talent is so scarce, all are true stars in a way. But honestly, I would not be sad if I never saw all of their body. Dick-size, wood-ability and cum-shooting is all that is counting. I would not like to be such a male star, really. Understandable why so many of them behave so desperate to be recognized, like Rocco, Brandon etc... Wally is right: We have to say stop to that trend that they fuck so many girls instead of one. Girl needs be centre again. Guys align to fuck her - gangbang is good example. All is about girl. Other problem is lot of male actors become directors and still act. If actress moves behind camera she normally stops acting in same film. Stars come and go, meat-supply I need always - dick meat or girl meat.
There is no doubt about that the majority of consumer watch porn for the girls . But maybe it is for the viewers as it is for us male performers. Most every girl is interesting when she is new. After seeing (fucking) her a couple of times you loose interest. Some are special! You can't get enough of them. These rare exceptions have the potential to become a star.
John Holmes, Rocco Siffredi and Ron Jeremy are probably the only male stars who get a lot of recognition even from people who don't watch porn. But male performers usually stay longer in the business and are more familiar to most porn viewers.
Fred Astaire is my idol. Even if he danced much better than most of his partners he always managed to present her perfectly.
I understand what Steve is saying, but there is a reason for the longevity of the male stars. There is a definite shortage of men who have all the qualities it takes to become a porn star. The women are the highlight of the movies and scenes, but the male has a much greater opportunity to ruin the scene. There are so few male performers that have what it takes. I can't tell you how many scenes I have fast-forwarded through b/c of the male talent(or lack of it). I am not going to mention any names, but some of the male stars give me the ultimate softie. I want the male to fit into the scene, not scare me off or run their mouth too much. Which brings me to Franco Roccoforte. I think the guy is a goof, and I don't buy any dvd's because he is in them, but he does his job. He has a big dick, it stays hard, and he tries to get the best out of the women. The women are the stars, but the males can ultimately make or break the scene.
"The time has come for us to part, and think of living as it was. -Hot Tuna
I've always thought about porn like this. Think of porno as a car. The women are the engine. The men are the wheels. You can't drive without the engine. You need to have wheels to drive, but you can still drive with a shitty set. However, having said that, male talent will influence me, to some degree. For instance, if I buy Just Over 18 from RLD, I know I'm going to be seeing some young women, and in return I will want to see veteran quality male performers who can work the scene well. As a matter of fact, that's why I like the fact that Vince Vouyer makes that series. He seems to understand that small, but important point. But I have to throw in that there are so many no talent ass-clowns out there who claim to be male talent(sorry, had to throw that in). I hate to name names, but to be honest, I think that guy TT Boy really acts like a schmuck during his scenes.
Walter, to give you a straight answer, yes, men are important, but women are the stars.
I liked what Wally had to say. I agree that I don't like that 1 guy vs. 3-4-5-6-7 women either. Does nothing for me. But at the same time, some times too many dicks is a not so good a thing either. For instance, take Amee Donavan's scene in Flesh Hunter 4. I really liked it. However, it just seemed like it could have been a little better if there were two guys instead of three. She had that look on her face through the whole scene that just kind of said "damn, maybe this is one too many dicks." Also, whenever you get too many guys, you always get that one dude standing in the corner jerkin' off. In LWCBBMD 17, Angel Long does a 3-1. Other than Mandingo, nobody keeps wood. Jack Napier can't keep a hard on during a 1-1 scene, so just imagine how he was there.
Don't any guys ever fantasize of having access to, say 4 to 7 girls at one time? I dream of that sometimes, but I never dream of sharing one girl with a bunch of other guys. For that reason, I'd rather see more girls than guys in a scene, but my overall preference remains for a roughly equal number of men and women in a scene. Still, I enjoy watching the reverse gangbangs now and then, just for the parade of pretty ladies.
Posted - Feb 17 2003 : 8:33PM