This was of course during the Ashcroft era, but I doubt you'll see much of a change until BushcoII is gone, or it becomes obvious they aren't coming after the porn biz.

I'm sure a search will turn up the exact post(s).

cheers,

scipio

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I still don't understand what is so hard about letting the consumer know what performers are in the movie.

I would grade their movies as a B+ but would give a F for their web site and box covers.

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They can instead provide the rear cover to the online sales sites early so people can see the rear covers without worrying about the legal ramifications, but ZT also chose not to do so. One gets to see the rear covers in the other online sites a few days before the actual release at the very earliest instead of 4 to 6 weeks early so that customers can get interested.

In my opinion, ZT has lost some sales (guesstimate of 5 to 10%) that could have been made.

Ron

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Edited by - 4theheart on 12/8/2004 8:09:31 PM

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That's why I constantly check the upcoming releases(on retail and corporate websites) to see what catches my eye,as my local store does not stock EVEEYTHING out there,so something may go under my radar if I had to rely on just what I see on the racks.

Perhaps a compromise could merely be a brief scene by scene breakdown,like other companies do,like:Girl A does anal,Girl B does a double vag,Girls C&D take on one guy.Not so hard is it?

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Darth-Morpheous
adultdetective.com

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Hey Wally, any update on your Panochitas titles? Perverts like me want to know .

Ron

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Presently there is no clear legal ground on what constitutes legitimate age verification on the net and the 2257 compliance laws are vague and sometimes contradictory when it comes to online adult entertainment. Our decision to refrain from posting explicit content on our site is one we are comfortable with for the time being. Our members site is now being beta tested and will hopefully launch shortly. ( I know I've said that before but this time it's an accurate statement). BUT....

Not having the cast lists for our movies has been an unfortunate oversight which is being corrected as we speak and we will make every effort to get the cover art to online retailers in advance of the release date.

It really comes down to the degree of risk one is willing to take until the issue is resolved once and for all.

The members site has every scene from every movie, every DVD extra, bonus scenes and more.

Hope this is a satisfactory explanation.

Quaze

P.S. DImebag R.I.P

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I do not do a search for current titles (only for future titles), and if I do not see the rear covers in advance, I will probably not buy that title. I will never join a pay site just to see rear covers.

IMHO, the failure to make the rear covers available to the online sites will result in loss of sales. Making the rear covers available will result in more sales.

The companies that sell their titles well all have online sites that show future releases and they all make the covers available to the online stores. RLD, Platinum, Digital, A/D, EA, all have good informational sites with rear covers.

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Ron

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The problem the 2257 requirements for sites like ADT and the online retailers is that they are not in posession of the proper paperwork.

Am I missing something here?

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I understand the fear of governmental crackdown but what about all the other studios that post back covers? The odds of the gov't choosing ZT as opposed to EA, PXP, RLD would be the same. ZT is no different than others.

Sorry, I don't buy the argument that ZT would not have the financial wherewithal to sustain a prolonged legal battle. IMHO, an industry crackdown would be industry-wide and not selective, unless it was a snuff or rape film.

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If that's the case, it would make sense that they are both following the same policy.

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Does anyone really have the "appropriate" age verification paperwork when the guidelines for 2257 compliance online are so nebulous. Do you run a 2257 compliance at the end of each trailer? - at the bottom of each cover? Just once before clicking into the site itself? Will online copies of talent identification need to be made available? Furthermore, what would satisfy the "legal" requirement to prevent minors from viewing the material within? If you have the answers to these questions please pass them along.
If not seeing the back cover on our site prevents you from buying a movie from us, so be it. I'm sorry we lost your business. You have many alternatives out there but I'm satisfied that our regular customer base will continue to recognize that we do not cut corners or spare any expense to bring you the top female and male performers available and to offer a wide variety of product.

Quaze

R.I.P Dimebag

P.S. I'm not saying that we WON'T have back covers on our site, I'm just saying that we don't right now for the reasons mentioned above.

Edited by - Mike Quasar on 12/10/2004 12:49:20 AM

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Quaze

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Edited because, in the English language, one usually ends a question with a question mark instead of a period (as I did).

Edited by - Bill on 12/10/2004 1:04:26 AM

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Everyone can use a little extra Christmas money :)

Quaze

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Would I like to see back covers on the free site? Of course. But I DO understand the cautious approach they are taking due to the looming 2257 mess and the bozos in power who want to eradicate porn.

The pay site does give them an additional layer of protection with regard to protecting themselves from charges of what they are permitting minors to view.
I don't feel for a minute that they are trying to "force us to the pay site to view back covers." I mean, come on, ZT even attaches the full-blown 2257 disclaimer to EVERY trailer they release on DVD. They really are concerned about this issue!

The bottom line is that, if you don't give the authorities a foot in the door, they will most likely leave you alone.
And, remember, you DON'T have to actually be guilty of anything for the government to litigate law-abiding businesses into oblivion if they so desire.

As for myself, I'm pretty much going to buy or rent anything with Mike Quasar or Wendi Knight as camera/director regardless of seeing the back covers. Their product is what I want and they have never let me down. They have earned my trust.

One suggestion I would make, however, is to include the cast list on the front covers. Also, I'd like to see ZT's cover fonts a bit easier to read (i.e. less "script" and fancy fonts that are extremely difficult to read online).

Finally, ZT makes screeners available for reviewers here on ADT (and I assume elsewhere). The cast info and box covers ARE available online even though ZT has chosen not to put it up on the free site. FWEIW, I don't think casual porn watchers scour the net looking for this stuff in the first place. We porn Gods obsess about these types of things. But we already know where and how to find and view what we want anyway. I say no harm, no foul.

So Quaze, just keep putting out quality product we can all look forward to stroking to and don't sweat the small stuff.

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"Does Zero Tolerance's practice of not posting back box covers on their website hinder me from viewing their product?"

No.

"Does it bother me?"

Not really because bushdvd.com will allow me to view the backcover of anything, with an amazing zoom feature, before I rent it

"Does their practice of not providing cast lists for upcoming releases hinder me from viewing their product?"

No.

"Does it bother me?"

Fuck yeah it does.

We are a fan base constantly looking forward instead of focusing on the present. It's not about what a girl is doing now, rather "when will she do anal?" or "when will she work with such and such perfromer?" And it's not "hey, Mike John I loved your latest release." It's "hey, Mike John when the fuck is your next POV Pervert release coming out?"

So, perhaps you could say that my being annoyed by not posting cast lists is due to this mindset. It really isn't though. It's just more me trying to plan ahead financially for what I am going to rent and every other company's website I go to helps me with that but Zero Tolerance's website, unless the girl I want to see happens to be on the cover, offers absolutely no help. I am glad to hear Quaze say that this is an oversight that will be corrected. The problem is that, and I mean you no offense, you have said this before and yet here we are again talking about it. I guess I must recognize the fact that in the end there is only so much you can do. For a while, the site did start doing a good job of providing cast lists and that just stopped.

Kelly

Edited by - tscfan317 on 12/10/2004 2:26:29 PM

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There are many close relationships in the business. Therefore, many times employees are "loaned out" to our friends. For example, there is male talent that is exclusive with one company, but the show up in another company's movie. Same goes with directors and other entities. We have a very close relationships with many companies (Joey Wilson has been around almost 2 decades), as we do with Zero Tolerance. It's the whole Metro outcast thing. We all come from the same place and we obviously have a lot in common and have been close friends for some time. We have used the same directors before we came to where we are today. Joey Wilson was using Pat Myne and Chris Streams at Rosebud at the same time they were shooting for Metro for Greg Alves. They have never shot for anyone else in the business, except for the companies that both Joey and Greg have been involved in. They are all really close friends. Obviously, those relationships aren't going to change. Therefore, our directors are both close with Zero Tolerance an Third Degree. They're the ones that really brought us together where we now rent office space from Zero Tolerance. That's why you see some overlapping between the companies with directors and other things. It's not as confusing as it may seem. We do rent office space from Zero Tolerance and we continue to work together with promotional things and stuff of that nature to help cut down overhead for both of us. It really comes down to the bottom line for both of us. We can accomplish a lot more by working together. Hence, sharing a booth and girls at the AVN Show. The booths are not a cheap operation out there.

Our website is still in it's infancy. We will probably be putting up the back covers real soon, but as a very new company, we at least have the front covers and cast lists up for every title available and a few of the upcoming releases. That's more than most new companies. I also make sure I post the back covers links to our server on this site each week for the new release hitting the streets.

Thanks,
Tony Santoro
3rd Degree Films

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Yes, I picked up on the whole Metro alumni dynamic going on with Zero Tolerance and 3rd Degree :)

I've had the distinct pleasure of viewing your "Upper Class" and "What Gets You Off" DVDs. Just awesome first-rate porn!

I'm emotionally invested in the approach to quality porn both companies have undertaken. What's important is what's delivered to the consumer in the finished product... NOT the nuts and bolts of building and maintaining company websites that "instantly" satisfy everybody.

The hard work that both ZT and 3rdD put into their product just oozes quality and thought in every detail! Not only am I sure you guys will tweak the websites more to everybody's satisfaction, I know that you all care enough to want to.

So, take your time and be mindful of the intolerant right and their minions. I certainly don't want anybody to be damaged by the new 2257 minefield we all have to deal with now.
Personally, I think DVSX has the model site for conveying information to the consumers. I'd love to see you guys model your sites along these lines.

Thanks for the excellent porn :)

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"Vegetarianism for me is about saying ‘yes’ to things - even meat." - Coupling

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and here's an example ...

Think I'll take a lie down in a quite room for a while - solving the world's problems has over-stressed my braincell .

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On second thought, even if I am wrong, that's STILL a damn good idea.

I've personally dealt with the issue of cast lists today and you will begin seeing them by the middle of next week.

Quaze

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Regardless of my opinion about back covers, I want to commend both of you on accepting customer feedback here at ADT. I think both of your studios release top-shelf stuff and us customers would just like to see action pics/cast list prior to purchasing/renting.

Yes, we are spoiled by other studio websites (e.g. PXP, EA) and it sounds like you're willing to accomodate in the near future. Best of luck.

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Actually, if the back cover of Double Decker Sandwich is indicitive of how all of the soft versions of the ZT back covers look (a single, large photo of each of the girls in the cast), then I would actually prefer that to a back cover with lots of small hardcore shots. The soft version is easier to see.

The only bad thing about the soft Double Decker Sandwich cover is that a few girls in the movie are missing from the cover (cast of 12, photos of 8).

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For example,

Scene 1:

Miss Everything with Mr. 16 inch and Mr 20 inch.

Scene starts with a dp followed by a double oral followed by a rcg dp followed by a rcg dap followed by a cg dpp followed by a cg dap. The scene ends with a double facial. The dp lasted 10 minutes. The dap and dpp were 12 minutes each. The action was very hot .... details are important.

What we do not need is uninformative description like for scene 1, we have Miss Everything with Mr. 16 inch and Mr 20 inch. Great scene.

For scene 2, we have ...

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List the cast on the front of the boxcovers, even in small writing - this means that regardless of where someone is seeing the front cover image, they'll see the cast list.

Post the full <R>/soft cover on the website, As Bill says, a large photo of the cast's faces does wonders more then yet another photo of a disembodied gaping rectum.

Supply full imagery to retail sites in advance of the release date, so we can check the HC covers on the retail sites, because they're going to end up there anyway..

cheers,

scipio

Edited by - scipio on 12/11/2004 6:40:16 AM

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My apologies. Such a simple task should not be such a great ordeal but I wanted to let you know that I'm trying to stay on top of things ( for those who care).

Quaze

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Also, tag team 3 has no description and that is the title I want to know more about.

Ron

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anyhoo..

Claudia Rossi
Gia Paloma
Lucy Lee (the Euro lucy Lee)
Sabrina
Carol
and Trinity's first D.P (Quite spectacular)

Quaze

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I almost passed up Striptease then Fuck # 5 because the only anal I could see was Renee Pornero who I am kind of tired of. I rented this with very low expectations but was pleasantly suprised with Ellen Saint's scene with much back and forth ATP.

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Is this the Lucy Lee dap scene? You did say something about a Lucy Lee dap a while back. If so, this is on my to buy as soon as it comes out list (weather permitting).

That is why we want detailed descriptions and back covers. It makes the buying easier.

Thanks,

Ron

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Is the daggie Lucy Lee? It is hard to tell from the box cover at AdultCDMovies.

See Quaze, I would have missed that title and not bought the DVD but for fortune and a little help from my friend NWN. I have been waiting for the Lucy Lee dap from ZT for quite a while since you mentioned it in another thread. When Fishnet was posted as a future release, there was no rear box cover and so I promptly forgot about the title. Since the title came out, I have NOT seen the rear box cover; if not for the help from NWN, I would have missed the rear box cover completely. I would have missed getting this title, been sad to miss seeing Lucy Lee get daped, and you would have missed a sale. All this can be prevented by posting the box cover.

Ron

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See why rear covers are crucial.

Ron

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Quaze

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All other girls are blond except
-Lucy Love - light brown hair and very different looking face -> so she's not the daggie
-Jennifer - is on the Picture right below -> so she's not the daggie
-Thalia - looks very different is the girl in the scene with Lucy (top row 3rd Picture from left)

So it can only be Lucy Lee and i will finally see my first Lucy Lee DAP ,cause i didn't like/hear bad things about her other DAP scenes.

Still i would prefer seeing/reading such infos on the company websites instead of having too search all the online-stores.

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Any more dap by Lucy Lee or by other talents in your upcoming releases? I need to know what titles to check out and put on my to get list or else I will miss them.

Thanks,

Ron

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