What you say is consistent with what I hear from other porn producers, directors and photographers: that LA Direct is an extremely efficient "machine." And efficiency/reliability saves production costs.
Still, there continues to be "ethical" and "workplace conditions" issues that haunt LA Direct--and they are mentioned in the beginning of this thread. Issues like Derek Hay performing scenes (as Ben English)with his own employees; his acceptance of "finders fees" for bringing his girls to a specific company (Is that company the "right" company for the girl, or does he first bring girls to companies that are paying him to keep their rosters filled? And, in these instances "who" is he representing? The girl, or the company?); his "tactics" with his employees to ensure they arrive to sets on-time--and his advice/counsel to his girls about working constantly; and, finally, does LA Direct "care" about/do enough when it's employees have "personal problems" because they can't handle the issues associated with being a female in porn (the Lexie Marie issue).
I've been an observer/reviewer of porn for many years; and, frankly, I have mixed feelings about LA Direct. Mainly, I'd feel much better if Derek Hay didn't also perform, or accept finders fees for introducing his girls to specific companies. But, I don't expect this to change until the companies/directors decide they have a problem with these issues, too.
So what was the whole story with Derek and Tiffany Holliday, or is that a whole other thread? Seems like I remember hearing about some drama, but I don't remember much.
Is she working now?
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Feb 26 2006 : 8:09PM
She seems to have slowed down ALOT...and even being a fan of Tiffany's, I'm inclined to believe it was indeed her fault. She flaked out on not only LA Direct...but Chris' FOXXX Modeling as well...and Tera Patrick as well (god knows whom else).
That surely put a damper on her work availibility in the industry I'd say, based on a shitty reputation. However, she has no one to blame but herself I'd say. Her answer to me @ Vegas about representation was that she is now a free agent of sorts.
Why are non-employees of LA Direct Models complaining about the 'work conditions' there? That should be the territory of the actual models employed there. Some like Dillan Lauren have had their say, but the majority of the girls have been silent. LA Direct has the largest talent pool in the Valley and that speaks volumes.
I think it is the amount of money Derek is making that is bothering people more than anything else. He's been able to leverage the skills from his prior career in the music industry into creating a porn powerhouse in a relatively short period of time and some people are exceedingly envious.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Feb 27 2006 : 8:39PM
Well, money does make others jealous...that's not just confined to porn.
However, not I...money is nice, but the time to spend it is more important. That is one of the most important lessons I've learned in life.
Wow. That's like the night Eric Bischoff showed up on RAW, for you wrestling fans out there.
As far as LA Direct girls screwing their boss, boo hoo, poor them. I didn't hear the guys at PXP crying when they got to fuck Jewel De'Nyle silly. It goes both ways.
If he is their agent, whether they realize it or not, he works for them. Granted, it sounds like he will only work for them if they follow his rules, but that's their choice.
I find it heart breaking. Well I have worked for LA direct as a performer and with LA direct as a Director so I feel like I'm "in a position to talk" not to mention I'm feeling reckless as of late :)
As a performer I worked like crazy with them, and I was happy, I made a LOT of money and had great camaraderie with all the girls. I learned a ton and had a good time. I am not a traditional beauty and really think the only reason I had any sort of career was LA Direct. When I started with them they had maybe 20 girls, they recruited me off one model place.
my complaints at the time all began after Hannah moved out. The agency got really big really fast and over crowded housing and *hours* long waits for rides became the norm. they stopped taking me on go sees and that was a small portion of the problems. for the year and a half i was there i always paid my rent up front and my commission on time, 80% of the time before I was even paid for the job. but they would pick up my checks forge my signature and charge me a check cashing fee and take the commission themselves and give me what was left when they felt like it. I keep better track of my money than a lot of porn chicks and this really pissed me off. I called Derek on it and he freaked out "Are you accusing me of doing something illegal?" and I told him I don't give a fuck what he does, just stop doing it to me. I went home from that trip and never went back to work for them.
I went under contract with extreme and when it ended I wrote Derek and asked him to take me back (so obviously things couldn't have been that bad) He said no. I didn't blame him when I left there I was hysterically crying in the office, i was pissed about them holding my money and I later found out Derek felt like I was threatening him. so whatever.
As a director I used him to book a girl for my first movie through Kevin, he has a lot of great girls and they DO always show up no matter what, in fact this girl showed up even though she should have been at a hospital.
On my last movie I wanted to book one of their girls. I called about 2 weeks out and asked if she had American ID's and was told yes, so i placed the booking. I had another english girl booked through gold star and when i asked the same question about the ID's they emailed me a copy of the girls english passport and American drivers license, I showed this to my company and asked if it was ok, I was told no, because the girl was not legal to work in the US, if she was she would have a certain stamp on her passport or a work visa. I cancelled this girl and goldstar helped me find another girl.
Then I call Direct to see if their has this stamp, (this is the very day after i booked her and 2 weeks from the shoot) she doesnt. Im told she got married and will have a social security number soon, but not in the next 2 weeks, i tell them i can also take an ein, but she doesn't have that either. i tell them I have to cancel her. At this point he could have booked one of his other girls with me but that's not the path he chose.
Derek calls me back and says this is bullshit this has nothing to do with 2257, I tell him I know but she is not legal to work in the US. He says Im being stupid and that I have to use her. I tell him I can't and that I will not be able to get paid if My paperwork is not legal and he says. "Then I'm sorry we won't be working together anymore" He banned me from using any direct model girls. fine I was only able to do 2 movies last year and it doesnt look like Ill get many more this year so they didnt lose a lot of business from me. It was just Derick trying to bully me into using a girl (who by the way was getting $500 more than any other girl Ive ever used) It was possible for Derick to let me pay his corporation for this scene but he didnt want to do that. he was right it had nothing to do with age verification per say, it had to do with a girl working in America illegally with no intent on paying any taxes.
So he's gone kinda power crazy and I will have no dealings with them any more.
keep in mind I was totally willing to work for him again after my extreme contract (that I didnt negotiate through him) and he turned me down so we did have a history.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Feb 28 2006 : 12:24AM
Wow, Kami...that sounds eerie-ly similiar to what Tiffany Holiday accusd him of in her bout with Derek. Let's see if I can find those posts from AdultFYI:
As for the other stuff Kami...don't worry dear. That's esentially promoting alien labor the way it sounds he tried to bully you. Karma can be a real bitch, he'll get his if indeed all this is true (or someone will burn him when he least expects it).
~E
Edited by - eric381 on 2/28/2006 12:36:40 AM
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jamesnadt Deactivated User
cambridge, ma 152 Posts 2/06
Posted - Feb 28 2006 : 12:27AM
sounds like he's a: forging checks b: breaking every INS rule known to man in terms of non-immigrant work permits.oh yeah, and caverject's cool too.
Wow--I read that stuff about Holliday. Do all the agents do all this stuff? (keep a house for them to live, provide drivers, hold their money, etc...) Do all of his performers live like this, or just the less responsible ones? He's running a pimp/babysitting operation.
I think I want to make a reality TV show from his house. I bet there's no shortage of drama there. We might have to make it pay per view.
well they dont provide the house as such you pay $200 a week to share a room with 3 other girls (although its cheaper than a hotel) You pay an extra 5% for the drivers, and we would prefer they STOP holding our money!
as to who stays in "the porn dorm" its usually out of town or country girls like me, who fly in shoot a bit and leave, i know the British girls are only aloud to be in the country for a brief amount of time
I wasn't really looking at this setup as a positive. It sounds like he totally controls the girls working through him, and their interests don't seem to come first.
Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass. 2884 Posts 1/03
Posted - Feb 28 2006 : 10:02PM
For all the people who feel that the bottom line is always the bottom line, and that the guy is ok because his girls are punctual and reliable, I want to remind you that Mussolini was reknowned for making the trains run on time. In the end he was left hanging by his heels, turned on by the very people whose lives he supposedly made better.
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Feb 28 2006 : 10:32PM
Certainly does sounds like one hell of an idea, doesn't it? lol
I don't feel that the ladies will turn on him, because he makes them too much money. Also, I do not think that he'll be an agent forever, its merely a stepping stone to bigger things.
Hello there Lisa Ann here, well we all are allowed our opinions, but there are things you don't know, like when the girls need something Derek is there, his office staff is amazing and from years of being independant in the jiz biz I can definately see how derek has changed the business for the better! You have to have a strong personality to deal with all the different challanges the jiz biz has to offer. Why don't you try it, see what happens. I work as an agent in that office, it is intense and at the end of the day there is a lot more porn in the world because Derek gets the girls to the shoots, on time, ready with ID's and tests. So see Derek really is making the world a better place, don't you see it?! Lisa Ann xoxoxox
The real question this thread raises for me is this: who do porn "agents" really represent? Lots of agents in other professions are tough, rude, aggressive people, but their sole motivating interest is in representing the talent they work for. Porn agencies seem to be a different animal--the word "middlemen" used earlier in this thread is a good description. Derek Hay seems to be doing what other agents in the industry have always done, except maybe he's doing it better.
In other words, I'd be fine with an agent who wants to sleep with his talent--but when I catch him sleeping with the producers too, then I'd start to get leery.
I read on another site that Derek got the Cameron Twins an interview over at Vivid the other day. Considering that they are just starting out and Vivid's position as the number one adult film studio, that is a fantastic. Why don't you focus on the positive instead of the negative?
Derek/Ben English is a good friend of mine. Why do people knock him, well to begin its because he's smart & succesful, working in porn has its pluses and minuses. What I mean is that everybody is jealous of the other guy and since he's on top of the game people are going to look for the negative to point out. It happens to me all the time too. Derek is a great performer and on a business level only wants driven girls that wont flake on shoots or aren't messed up on drugs, do you blame him? Since he projects a dominating aura it works to his advantage.
BTW, I'm not comparing Derek Hay to Mussolini, Hitler, or Stalin -- that would be a moral outrage to their victims.
I was simply continuing Kami's metaphor, if you will.
Derek Hay is just another run-of-the-mill, scumbag agent -- one who engages in many of the same questionable practices as some "mainstream" talent agents do. The fact that Hay's tactics are relatively common, however, doesn't make his behavior justifiable or laudable.
Yes, just like any agency you get a $500.00 referral fee on any new girls you bring into the agency and I've never had any problems with Derek in that area...its part of business.
I didn't mean to imply that you had a problem getting paid, I just wanted to clarify that you refer girls to get $500 not cause hes a great guy. I like guys that give me money to :)
The subtext of Kami's question might have been whether you refer girls to Hay out of the pureness of your heart, looking out for their best interests, or whether you do it for the kickback.
Come on now, we all know its a money thing, now what your trying to break down about the person isn't the type of conversation I wish to partake in. Each individual experiences different behaviours with whomever they deal with and I'm not out to slam anyone here.
I should of read the entire thread before joining in, I only joined in from reading backwards on to the beginning.
I'm sorry for intruding on the topic thats in question here.
Have a good evening,
Stuart
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Eric381 Deactivated User
What are you looking at? It 2452 Posts 3/05
Posted - Mar 4 2006 : 11:00PM
Hell, if I were a referral type, I'd go to the highest payer / bidder, too! I gotta imagine he who is willing to pay up the most, might have the best to offer his girls (albeit maybe not in their best interests).
$500 for referring someone? Hell, I gather there could be people who make a secondary living out of that kind of "job", if you will.
Bob, RE: my earlier comment. How is terrifying citizens of nation even comparible to terrifying the citizens of an agency?
Eric381 wrote:It's not. My point was that intelligence doesn't insulate a tyrant, either of the large or small variety, from being brought down.
When picman ironically cited the fate of Mussolini, the ultimate purveyor of efficiency (which is the quality for which Hay seems to be admired), myadultgroups2 responded:
"I doubt it. Derek is way too smart."
So is Derek Hay too smart to be undone by his own arrogance and ruthlessness? If you were to ask Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides, they'd tell you that such hubris is the classic recipe for downfall.
I'm not an oracle -- certainly not at Delphi -- I'm just shooting the breeze.
That is one of the most important lessons I've learned in life.
