easy doesn't mean it's not true.Society is helpful, but religion to me has only one scope which is to scare and control primitive people, as George Carlin perfectly said. It doesn't make a man better, it makes him full of sense of guilt and shame for something that is natural. The very fact that we can't go naked around if we want, because we should feel shame to expose our body (and we can see the absurdity of women who cannot show their faces for other religions, but hey, if it's the body, strangely enough, we don't talk about that, we just accept that we should not do it). In a way, I think that porn exists as a relief valve to that sexual repression.A porn actor isn't necessarily a maître à penser, I hope you want to concede this. The fact that Manuel Ferrara or Billy Watson think that way doesn't mean anything. Also, they are immersed exactly like us in the same mentality. And there's not even need to be a hypocrite to think that your own daughter can choose a different career. But not because she would be do something wrong, but because it's easy to realize the stigma a person (not just women, but especially them) will suffer in the real world. And guess what I think it's the cause of that stigma.
Let's put it this way: a year ago there was the news in my country that a young muslim woman had disappeared. It turns out it was her muslim family who didn't accept she was dating a non muslim guy, and they killed her. Sense of guilt and shame. Who was the culprit? Her life decisions, of the family around her who was following that religious mentality?
"how most people feel": and then why so many people watch porn? Usual argument about addiction? Or maybe the devil? Also, she's saying "how so many people think they're supposed to learn": from when porn is sex education and not entertainment? It's the same kind of argument that conservative people have used through the years against videogames or rock music. Like you play Doom and you become the psychopath that goes out killing everybody even if for what I know all studies say otherwise.
Edited by - leatherface on 8/7/2022 12:01:52 PM
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SouthernMaestro Deactivated User
115 Posts 3/21
Posted - Aug 8 2022 : 9:28AM
I think you're thinking too deep on it. There's 100 negatives for every positive with porn. Yes almost everybody eats mcdonalds but your ideal career is not to work in mcdonalds. Now porn is way below mcdonalds for most people. Just the reality. Some success stories but not many.
And what are the reasons that most people (as you're saying) see porn way below mcdonalds? Because that's an important aspect. I mean, if you go to certain muslim societies, if a woman decides to show her face, even if she's not doing anything wrong, you can be sure that there as you say, "100 negatives for every postive" with that. That's because the desire to show your face is bad? Or maybe it's because there's something wrong with the mentality that decides that a woman showing her face is bad?
Well, just because people watch porn doesn't mean they're remotely into it IRL. And, she's not wrong about people's attitudes about sex in relation to what they see in porn. IMHO, most of the interviews I've read with performers are extremely lame and a lot of drivel, but one of the underlying themes is that invariably come up is they learned about sex from porn.
if she's not wrong about people's attitude about sex in relation to what they see in porn, then people watching John Wick can become serial killers and therefore action movies should be forbidden. Videogames and rock and metal music the cause of young guys going into schools and shooting at people. Except those are not the causes at all. This idea that entertainment (which is not education) should be blamed instead of lack of proper education is just a convenient shortcut used by (usually) conservative politicians, who then usually strangely enough want to take away money from proper education while hoping at the same time to have the votes of religious groups. It's a mentality that says: people are necessarily stupid so they don't have the brain to understand what's entertainment and what's education and reality and therefore we should not gave them even the ability to decide from themselves, just ban any problematic enternainment (except that when censorship starts, you know where it starts but you don't know where it ends).
But how it's possible to make good sex education, in a society that behaves as sex is a sin and something bad that should be hidden?
I don't see what you example has to do with the subject, seems a little off the line to me.
You say : "not because she would be do something wrong". I think in the case of Ferrara : what he does to girls in his scenes , he wouldn't want it to be done to his daughter
And even beside of the sex on camera thing, I trust him to know the backstage of the porn industry, especially the bad side and to know it's not an healthy place for his daughter to be in, maybe even to realize he's doing unhealthy stuff himself. He's lying saying everything's fine there, otherwise he shouldn't have a problem with that, to the point of not wanting to talk about it at all. That's really suspicious
well he could have his own psychological problems, which is understandable. But still, for what I know tons of girls love to work with him.there's no need to be someone who works inside the adult industry to know that it has a dark side and a lot of not so great people. Still, there are also performers men and women who happen to genuinely like what they are doing, and their point of view is as valid as that of Manuel Ferrara. Like there are girls who making even soft scenes could be completely traumatized and others that absolutely love the most insane stuff.
Louisiana that might as well be a different planet it's so far from my bed. But who knows it might be the start of it. I'm also skeptical about the online authentication method. Wouldn't want my name leaked tied to a dirty fetish site. Let alone have any kind of connection in someones database.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 6 2023 : 12:24PM
Another Twitter post on the Louisiana law. First amendment activists should be all over this: [Tweet is no longer available]
Between the number of people who work in porn (not just performers) and the number of people who enjoy porn, a situation really should exist in which celebs aren't able to make the kinds of comments that Billie did without attracting significant social backlash, not just domestically but internationally, just as they would if they said something transphobic. So, we saw sex workers shut down Laverne Cox's involvement in the anti-SW propaganda film, Sell/Buy/Date. Cox is nowhere near the level of Billie of course, but I want to see the same righteous energy that was directed at her in that instance grow and be used against porn's enemies with devestating effect.
"Faith-forward legislator." That is just so fucking creepy. I'm guessing this guy isn't all that big on the separation of church and state. In fact, I'm guessing that he'd prefer if the church was the state. HIS church, of course.
Full disclosure - I fully support making laws that enforce religious morality as long as it's MY religious morality that we enforce, and not someone else's. The position I take on this with right-wing religious people is that they get to choose whether we enforce religious morality and then I get to choose which religion.
Also full disclosure - under my version of religious law, physicians who perform abortions will be protected while physicians who perform breast-enhancement surgery will be persecuted. That's the way it is in my bible.
Maybe this sums up my thoughts on faith-forward legislators:
Bilie Eilish is a talentless, clueless "celebrity," demonstrably too young and ignorant to have a meaningful opinion about...anything, really. Remind me again why we should care what she thinks about porn?
^ When I say "we," I mean society in general. I understand that some (incredibly stupid) people do pay attention to the verbal diarrhoea that she and her ilk tend to spew forth, and that it can thus have ramifications. My point was simply that anyone who takes her seriously is a moron. :)
You don't have to like her or her music, but to call her talentless and put celebrity in quotations just telling on yourself.
It's also incredibly closed minded to brush away her opinions as meaningless just because she is young. Everyone has feelings and everyone has different experiences in life. There are countless people that are the same age as you who agree with her whole-heartedly. Would you trust their opinions more just because they are that much closer to dementia?
I like porn and the Golden Age of Porn 1947 Posts 9/21
Posted - Jan 9 2023 : 4:39AM
I don't care about Billie Eilish's opinion on porn, she can have whatever view she likes on porn. Even if it's wrong The problem is when her words are used to construct new laws that hurt performers/SW and take away our privacy.
I wonder if Elish considered the potential consequences of taking a position that could be easily co-opted by the right-wing of the Evangelical Christian movement? The fact that this "faith-forward legislator" is now using her comments to change laws might not reflect well on Elish. I'll admit to only having a minimal clue who Elish is, but it's probably reasonable to guess that her fans are mostly young people, and young people tend to be more socially moderate or socially liberal than older folks, so if she inadvertently makes herself a poster child for the religious right that could have repercussions.
Off topic, and I'll probably regret saying this, but it's sort of like Elon Musk making a hard right turn in some of his positions. Again, I have no idea if this is true or not, but I suspect that Teslas are purchased mostly by people who identify with the centre or the left and not the right. I'm not in the market for an EV (yet), but his politics and social positions are enough that I wouldn't even consider buying a Tesla. Musk could alienate his core customer base as his products are becoming stale and dated and as other manufacturers are gathering steam on the EV front.
^ Agreed. I think there are legitimate criticisms of the BUSINESS of porn, with women particularly, being exploited. I realize that Elish's comments were on body image and how porn creates unreasonable expectations for women. But that isn't just porn. In fact, it's probably fair to say that porn is only a very small part of the problem here. Then you have the "faith-forward legislator" who co-opts Elish's thoughts for his own ends. I am quite confident in saying that this "faith-forward legislator" doesn't give a rat's ass about body image issues. He's not arguing that porn should be more inclusive of different body types. We'd be insane to think that. It's about control and imposing a narrow archaic morality on others.
But as for the business of porn, that is one area where some real change should happen. Unfortunately the exploitation is at least partly the fault of those who want to shut the business down. If we accepted sex work as the legitimate and valuable work that it is and ended the stigma, then I think we could quickly and easily drive the exploiters out of the business. It's like the absurdity of being anti-abortion but also being opposed to the things that will reduce the need for abortion, namely education and easy access to contraceptives. It's like how governments used to weed out lesbian and gay people from the military and foreign service because they were more susceptible to being blackmailed. News flash! If society had been accepting of gay and lesbian people back then they wouldn't have been any more susceptible to blackmail than anyone else. Some East German official is trying to blackmail an American, British or Canadian diplomat because he or she is gay or lesbian? "My government already knows that. So what?" That would shut it down quickly.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 9 2023 : 11:42PM
^^Multiple performers who don't fit Billie's stereotype of what pornstars look like called her out for her nonsensical take. I'm a Billie Eilish fan, I absolutely love her as an artist, but as a person she is deeply ignorant of physical diversity in porn and not in a position to speak with any authority on the subject. In her porn consumption she apparently stuck to a particular type of porn (obviously not gay male porn, which like most anti-porn blockheads she seems to have never heard of) that featured women who looked a certain way, and now she condemns "porn" in general based on her limited vantage point. That's irraitional and stupid.
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Lezzyist Deactivated User
Make Porn Erotic Again 1736 Posts 9/19
Posted - Jan 10 2023 : 1:05AM
True. But Redhood's statement is still true.
It gets tiring hearing about some annoying producer being a menace when porn inherently comes with optics that naturally make people suspicious. Porn should be squeaky-clean aside from what's on camera, but some dudes just refuse to not be gross/annoying. Part of why women are leaning heavy toward creating their own stuff is that they have to take less shit from weirdos who run companies/have other influence in the industry.
Those are good points. Like most porn collectors/consumers, I have specific things I look for. Body types, hair, and themes as well as others. We like what we like. However, as someone who has been buying porn for decades I recognize that there is a broad porn world out there. People with less experience with it likely wouldn't know that. Porn is a rich tapestry of body types, ages, ethnicities and interests. Funny how that works - it mirrors humanity.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2023 : 11:41AM
^^I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but I responded to Redhood because I wanted to make clear that workers being mistreated and underpaid isn't a porn thing, but a workers thing. Sex work is work. Sex workers are workers. The struggle of sex workers for rights and dignity is part of the struggle of billions of other workers around the world for the same. Rather than recognizing any of that, anti-porn liberals are obsessed with the act of women (if all porn were gay male porn liberal opposition to porn would be near nonexistent imo, just as liberal opposition to gay male porn is near nonexistent right now, at least in the US) having sex for money, while conservatives also approach the issue from a bankrupt angle. I don't that Redhood is a part of any of that, but I want to point out that there's a tendency to exceptionalize the porn industry because it involves sex.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2023 : 12:00PM
While I wouldn't dismiss a young person's opinion simply because they are young, I do notice a tendency among people who grew up with Wikipedia and the option to Google everything to mistake superficial knowledge of a thing with comprehensive knowledge of a thing. Billie Eilish is a case in point. She made sweeping generalizations about porn based on her personal viewing habits. That would be akin to someone who only watches IR complaining that all white guys in porn are cucks. It's crap epistemology.
Chloe Temple Interview
Posted - Aug 6 2022 : 1:05PM
