Wow. That has to be the broadest definition of "racism" I've ever come across. So if, by your reckoning, anyone who recognizes any distinction at all between any group of people [ ie. there are groups of people with darker skin than others, there are groups with narrower eyes, etc ], is a "racist"... that begs the question: What, if anything, are the flaws in racism? If, as is traditionally the case, racism is defined as ascribing the elements of a person's individual character to their race [ ie. "all Asians are good at math", "all Jews are tight with money" ], then the conflicts of that belief system with egalitarian values are obvious. It's almost impossible to promote the idea of racial equality if there are inherent inequalities among races. That I get! But to simply recognize that someone is darker than I am, and that I find it unattractive... that's racist? I would agree with you that "It's no big". A person's ideas are their own. But words are important, as is having and conveying a clear understanding of those words. I strongly suggest you reexamine the concepts of racism and sexism. Or at the very least, peruse a dictionary.
In my mind it's about racism if a person says he/she doesn't find certain traits indicative of that nationality or race attractive or appealing and only limits those feelings to that particular race or nationality. If they are accepting of those sames traits in other races or nationalities, then yeah they're racist. If they don't find those traits appealing or attractive in any race or nationality then it's preference.Wow...amazingly, I think the same of you. You seemed to come here with an agenda and for those who don't give the responses you want to hear you seem to have issues with.What "demeaning" way did I talk about black women? Pointing out that all the pictures and names being thrown around in this thread by people who claim to be into black women fall into a fairly narrow type of body, look and complexion? I asked if they were truly into black women where are the broad nosed, thick lipped and big butt mentions, shout-outs and pictures? If "demeaning" means pointing out that some black women have thick lips, big butts ad broad noses then yeah, I'm very "demeaning" because I acknowledge a very obvious fact. And yes, some members of my family have some of those traits...myself included. And I get along with them just fine. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the type of women I want to see in porn movies. Or is there supposed to be some sort of thing where a person wants to see people in porn that reminds them of family members that I'm unaware of?
1. Dictionaries aren't always accurate. Take the word gang for instance. We, the posters of ADT meet the requirement of a gang, however none of us would go out and say we are part of a gang because the word MEANS something other than what is written in the dictionary. 2. If we were to trust the dictionary on this Racist- 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination Sexist- 1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women 2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex How is a man not having sex with other men not discrimination? Quite clearly it is and it fits the dictionary definition. How is the glut of I love Asian girls videos not racist? The primary focus of the entire fucking video is the race of the girls! There is an entire genre of porn that is completely dedicated to racism! It's called Interracial. 3. Racism is a word like gang, it is used in a manner that is contrary to it's actual definition. People react to a number of things when they see somebody from their color to the shape of their eyes, to their weight, to what their wearing and the situation they are in. It's human nature.
I think the words "racist" and "racism" are thrown around waaaaay too freely on the 'net. Those are heavy labels to put on a person you usually know next to nothing about. Everyone seems to have their own definition of those words and they don't usually seem to jibe with everyone else's.
Homosexuality isn't chosen. Homosexuality is biology, although I'm sure some would debate that idea. What isn't debatable is that gender based sexuality cannot be changed. Homo to hetro or vis versa is not possible. Bringing it (homosexuality) into this discussion only muddys the water. Edited by - ntfighter on 7/2/2008 3:09:16 PM Edited by - ntfighter on 7/2/2008 3:32:09 PM
Not so. In fact you could argue strongly that say the sterotype of Asians are hard working and inteligent is beneficial to the race. I could probably go and dig and dig and find more examples of "positive" racism. Hell affirmative action is arguably beneficial to it's targets depending on your point of view. I mean obviously the case could also be made that it's harmful socially but that's almost like a side effect. If you really wanted to stretch you could even bring in Indians and Casinos.
I agree Black porn place more emphases on the women and the sex. Most of the sex is to completion, cum shot from the action. It is rare for the guys to beat up anything except the pussy. The women seem to be having a good time rather then grimly grinding it out or stoically enduring till the end of the scene. Justin Slayer, LT and CJ Wright seems to have fun on the set, and fuck in a believable way, not acting their way thru the fucking. Take the same guys and have them in a some other producers movie and they become stiff and mechanical and fuck by the numbers. Edited by - ntfighter on 7/2/2008 2:56:29 PM
Marketing and hype doesn't always work. Think of all the blockbuster movies that were hyped and well marketed to the nines and still flopped. Think of VIVD and DIGITAL PLAYGROUND and their stable of well marketed contract girls and most people don't know who half of them are. Don't think for a second that those companies aren't trying to manufacture the next Jenna or Jesse and most porn consumers could care less about those girls. Jada Fire and Marie Luv have been given just as much opportunities as pretty much anyone in the gonzo world. Jada is easily one of the top ten most popular girls in gonzo and is more well known that many contract girls (in most porn circles). The world of the contract girls is where you become the next Jenna. The contract girl world is a whole 'nother animal. It's the mostly white male audience with very "vanilla" tastes. If Jada became a contract girl she probably wouldn't become more popular per se, she just get a different audience and lose a big part of her gonzo audience. Jada is attractive but her biggest strength/appeal comes from her explosive scenes. If Jada became a VIVID girl the explosive scenes would stop and be toned down and much of her gonzo audience would go away. She would basically become that attractive black contract girl that not much of that white male audience would want to see because their fav white performers are still putting out product. Jada would probably be a bit too ethnic for them. As long as the majority of the audience is white males we won't see a black equivilent of Jenna, Tera or Jesse no matter how much the market and hype her. If any girl even comes close she will be a black girl with very caucasion features. My opinion. Edited by - draxxx on 7/2/2008 10:49:31 PM
Sorry for the fucked up formatting in my last post. Not sure why it's made so difficult to clearly show where one is replying to parts of someone's post...
I addressed the issue of black women and the major media by using Lena Horne's career as an example since you both might have missed it I'll reproduce it here. ntfighter wrote I mentioned Lena Horne in my first post. Lena also possessed the kind of beauty that is consider attractive by most people, and that beauty was the reason she didn't have the success an entertainer of her caliber deserved. The powers decided that if she were allowed exposure there would be a back lash from angry white women after catching their men drooling over a Black women. That belief or something like it seems to still be operant as evidenced by the statement "I do not like black women", and is not I prefer white women We seem to be in agreement that racism in the major media did not give black women the opportunity to excel in their chosen profession. Porn continues the tradition by restricting Black of both genders to fetish fodder. I don't think that porn does much market research, so I'm left to think that this is the attitude of the producers, as it was yesterday so it is today. Which leads naturally to the question, are porn producer also white men who don't find Black women attractive?. They have created an environment where it is not merely acceptable to discriminate, its encouraged. (There there sweet thing we ain't gonna make you work with that nasty Black man.) Strong pimp move concede something meaningless to get her to do other things she might find distasteful. Damn! producer are mack daddies.
I'm not calling anybody a liar or mistaken but I would like to see something other than, this is what I feel, to be proof that Lena's (or any career)career was killed by the powers that be so that white men wouldn't start being attracted to black women and thus their white wives would be upset. I mean the concept is pretty absurd, but weirder things have been true. Still to me that stinks of conspiracy theory on the level of Undercover Brother being fact. You know there really is a Mr. The Man and in his employ is White She Devil who's sole purpose in life is to lure productive black men away from the black community and keep it from ever excelling. It could be true. . . Also there is a difference between I prefer women and I don't like black women and again this stigma is shown throughout porn. If you buy any random porn off the shelf it's likely dominated by whites (but so is America in general so no surprise here) but you're more likely to catch a Latino or an Asian girl in something random black women with a few notable acceptions are not a part of the mainstream and I suppose Indian (both Native American and actual Indian) porn (which is an extreme niche). So it would seem that porn producers as a whole don't prefer whites, they don't like blacks. Otherwise we wouldn't see as many Latinas and Asians. I doubt porn producers do a lot of market research but I'm sure they can look around and see who's making money and who isn't.
I don't know why anyone would find it hard to believe that Black entertainers including Lena Horne faced discrimination. It's a fascinating part of American history. I seem to remember we had a little bit of Black history in grade school. Youtube vid of Lena, it was cut from "Cabin in the sky". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN4IzN0ua9A link to the full story excerpt pasted below. http://www.parabrisas.com/d_hornel.php Despite such promise her film career never really got off the ground. Aside from the all-black productions Cabin in the Sky and Stormy Weather, she was relegated to mostly one-scene musical roles which were filmed in such a way that they could be cut from the movie for distribution in the South. ntfighter wrote It was not only the south further digging will reveal that at the time her films and all Black productions were in black only Theaters in the North. Whites were welcome. "They didn't quite know what to do with me," she told Leonard Maltin of Entertainment Tonight, regarding the studio's dilemma. She wasn't dark-skinned enough to star with many of the black actors of the day, and her roles in white films were limited, since Hollywood wasn't ready to depict interracial relationships on screen. Her first film under contract was Panama Hattie, a 1942 version of Cole Porter's Broadway musical, in which she had a small singing role and appeared in only one scene. White audiences across the country would've rioted if Lena had appeared in a scene with a Black man. They feared she would be mistaken for white. She was also too fair skinned to appear with a white man, because she is obviously Black. Edited by - ntfighter on 7/3/2008 6:10:22 PM Edited by - ntfighter on 7/3/2008 6:22:43 PM
There is a huge difference between marketing wisely, i.e. cutting a black from scenes in the south at certains in history because it in and off itself would lower the amount of money made (it's rumored that people didn't see Mission Impossible 3 because of Tom Cruise being a Scientologist) So I don't find it hard to believe what you said in the second posts. Your first post claimed that the primary reason for her having her career killed was because if white men started checking out black women that white women would get upset. And like I said it could be true but it seems really hard to buy. The fact that the world wasn't ready for her again is a different issue entirely and that seems to be more the case.
[Link]
tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Jul 3 2008 : 8:04PM
ntfighter, you make some strong arguments (many I agree with) in this thread, but I've got to agree with Sean Renaud here. I do not think that white women have ever felt threatned by black women when it comes to attention from white men. I've seen enough evidence to conclude that MOST white guys tend to favor white women and if they do dip into other races its almost always Asians or Latinas (in that order). It usually takes an absolute 9 or 10 of a black woman to even get these guys' attention, and even then if she is too dark, forget it. Those Lena Horne clips were banned in the South because any potrayal of an independent, sexually aware black person was too much of a shock to the system. Docile, buffonish,and asexual. That was the fantasy of the American negro they wanted to perpetuate. Edited by - tritone on 7/3/2008 8:05:38 PM
Ntfighter: I'm afraid you inhabit some alternate universe. Seriously, I didn't understand you last reply to me. And not just for the fucked-up English. It is well known that black women are under pressure to go out with black guys. And lots of black guys complain that black women so often are attracted to the black "thug" type. I'm not making this up. And even though Toni Morrison is fiction--it's the truth. Again, you seem to be inhabiting an alternate universe. I'm going on vacation tomorrow, so I won't be posting for a white. Take care.
Girls that looks like Halle or even the girls in rap videos will not do porn. The black population is much smaller, remember, and it is easier for a girl to be identified in her everyday life. Going incognito would be hard.
It has to do with sales. Flower Tucci got to do all those Flower's Squirt shower movies, because each one sold well, in fact the first one, very well. Its always been whomever can increase a movie's sales. You have no idea of how deeply sales figures are analyzed. Companies will test things out. The explosion of anal movies just did not happen accidentally, a trend was noticed. Same thing with ass to mouth. The industry worships money over everything else. Supahead was a best selling video, but Karrine did not want to do anymore videos. She would have been paid handsomely had she decided to pursue that route.
This is funny! I post on a mixed martial arts forum, and [ invalid url ] was the topic of discussion. Same subject, different angle. Edited by - Tyler Knight on 7/4/2008 5:18:26 PM
BTW, "Rampage" Quinten Jackson is the current UFC light heavyweight champion, who is defending his title tomorrow night. Entertainment (porn, and sports included) are simply a mirror, reflecting more or less the values, and paradigms of society. Sometimes we dont always like what is reflected back at us.
No one is oppressing those women or stopping them from appearing in porn. Their product is sitting right there among the Jenna, Tera, and Jesse stuff. Anyone who wants it it's right there for them to buy. If it isn't selling well enough in your eyes and the girls don't get what you feel is their due maybe you should step it up and buy more of their product. How much of their product have you purchased in the last few months? I'd hate to think you're such an advocate and you aren't doing your fair share to support their cause. As far as what's "right" and/or "fair" goes...maybe you're right everyone should be treated "fair" so let's now just narrow it down to black women. If we're going to shove stuff down people's throat in an effort to be "fair" let's include everyone. I say from now on in an effort to do the "right" thing and to be "fair" all of the studios and directors should include in every one of their porns: Chubby pornstars. Just because a girl wieghs over 300 lbs doesn't mean she isn't a good person and doesn't deserve a shot at "mainstream" porn audience. Trannies should also be thrown in to every porn movie also. Yes, I know not many hetero guys want to see trannies in their movies but like pointed out if "more than a few" think it's "fair" and "right" then of course they should be included in every movie. If you're going to throw the trannies in there then you'd be insulting the gay male audience by not having at least one all out hardcore gay scene in every movie. It would probably chase away most of the straight audience away and cause the studiod to lose money in a very major way but THE HELL WITH THAT! Let's do what's "right" and "fair"! Not only that...you have to ask yourself where's the chubby over 300 lbs Jenna? Where's the transexual Tera? How come there's no well know gay performer who crossed over into mainstream like Jesse? Why aren't these people being given a shot at mega porn stardom? surley the studios must be holding them back by not putting them in their high profile movies and promoting them. That's all it takes you know. Just put that chubby pornstar, tranny or gay performer in VIVID, DIGITAL PLAYGROUND, JULES JORDAN, EVIL EMPIRE, etc.,etc...movies feature them and on the cover they'll surely become the next Jenna. Why? Because it's only "fair" and because people shouldn't have any sort of free will to not buy what they don't particularly don't want to see. If they complain toss out that constitution quote you just used. That'll straighten them out. Yep, I think shoving what you think is "fair" and "right" down someone's throat should include more than black women.
This thread is dead and you're still confused. You're an intelligent man a seeker of truth right?. It has been suggested more than once here by different posters that you don't get it. Drop me a email I'd be more than happy to clear up your confusion. Sincerely The Night fighter
IT could all come down to stereotyping black guys to women, thou which stereotype that would be is anyone's guess. And I might be in the minority being white and putting a women like "Lady Paree" on top of any Top Ten List....!!!
No offense, but it has also been pointed out to you that you don't get it. Clearly people on both sides of the divide believe their positions and are not going to be swayed.
What divide?. Either you're for situational racism, or you're on the side of the majority of Americans who believe that there is no such thing as a little racism.
The divide where one side seems to think if you have cognizance of patterns in what you're attracted to then that's racist because you aren't giving everyone a fair shake vs. those that see that people are always going to have preferences and as long as you can recognize that there is beauty in every group of people, then there is nothing wrong with the fact that you might find yourself attracted to one type more than another.
The subject is exclusion based on race. Preferring one person over another when given a choice is your god given and constitutionally guaranteed right. Right. Excluding an entire swath of women from your given choice based on their race is pathological Racism is often below the radar of those who are not affected.
I'm white and I find black women very attractive becuse they understand how a real femmenine body should look like. What I mean is that there's several 'white' pornstars that are so skinny that it's unhealthy , I believe that's not sexy. Most black women got natural curves and they love to show them, they feel confident with it, that's sexy.
