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| duefuss Member  Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 |  Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 2:45PMI haven't looked, but I'm certain there are past threads about this. Still I'd like to know from someone in the know about it what the obsession with breast augmentation in porn is about. Mind you, I'm a tit-man myself. I love 'em, but the way nature makes them, not those god-awful nippled basketballs that plastic surgeons stuff into these misguided girls. In post after post, I see fans lamenting that their favorite girl has gotten one of these disfigurements, and I've yet to see anybody praise fake tits. Still the plastic surgery goes on and on. Who or what is responsible for these ruinations of nature, and can there ever be a stop put to it? [Link] |
| solidsnake Member Dying To Live 266 Posts 10/07 | Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 3:33PM [Link] |
| MrTibbs Member 372 Posts 7/09 | Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 3:33PM [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 4:46PM Recently, many general surgeons have been experiencing tough times (i.e., earnings, job-logistics wise) compared to a lot of the medical specialties. Improved medical treatments and other factors have reduced some demand in surgery, especially general surgery. The exception of course is plastic surgery, specifically cosmetic surgery, as we all know it has flourished. It is sad when you can easily find plastic surgeons to do relatively rare cosmetic procedures, while it being difficult to find general surgeons with a lot of experience in some of the more common surgeries, in many areas. Even with their crazy demand, plastic surgery continues to create novel procedures (e.g., vaginal rejuvenation - whatever the fuck that means) sometimes motivated by demand, but more recently motivated by pure financial gain/opportunities (where marketing and lobbying comes in). Of course I am not criticizing all plastic surgery procedures or cases, but an increasing number of cases are elective and I contend unnecessary. Last time I heard, it was estimated that 5% of female population (>18yo) had implants in the US, which I find utterly disturbing and pathetic. Disregarding the issues of physical/psychological problems, unknown long-term teratogenicity consequences etc. etc., the ridiculous # of elective procedures creates new problems, many still under-appreciated. One being that there is a huge shortage (esp. future shortage) of general surgeons as many surgical students have/are specialized/ing in plastic surgery, largely due to the associated benefits of plastic surgery (exists due to demand). In 2008 US researchers predicted a "shortage of 1,300 general surgeons in 2010 and that the shortage will worsen each decade, reaching a deficit of 6,000 by 2050." But with many known national problems, when the shit hits the fan in the future, we'll just say "Oh shit", slap our hands on our faces like MaCaulay Mcculkin, pretend to not have known, and then get outraged (i.e., as Boomer gen fractures more hips), meanwhile resorting to going to some developing country (if you have the $). So the long answer is that it is not going away and will only get worse, as I think it tends to increase and feed on itself (+ feedback mechanism), largely due to our societal attitudes and increasing acceptance/trivialization of these elective cosmetic procedures. Unfortunately, get used to seeing more of the below. But I am right there with you, repeatedly saying WTF and shaking my head in disgust (btw, ADT needs an icon for this) after seeing a post-op pics/real-life of girls after girls (I think a very high majority). On a side note, this tends to make me feel really old (although I'm not), when I react this way cause I identify with the pro-natural-look crowd, which I think is larger with the older generations. Hopefully one day our society will learn to just 'use what you got' instead of chasing after stupid perceived preferences or at least taking the $xx,xxx spent on surgery and invest it (I say in many cases the return would probably be greater with no-implants-and-investment route). Also, get ready for more exotic piece of shit procedures, who knows maybe uvula enlargement?    Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/8/2009 5:03:14 PM [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 8:25AM Thank you for your thoughtful, well written, and entertaining reply. I, too, am baffled by cosmetic surgery; why women and many men believe it improves on nature. I've yet to see an actress whose 'enhancement' does not look obvious, very artificial and in many cases disfiguring. Your insight about the shortage of general surgeons due to the lure of plastic surgery's big profits, is something I was unaware of. It's alarming, and I think you are correct in your prediction of its consequences. I can only hope that girls in the porn business who are contemplating augmentation read your post and reconsider defacing themselves. [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 10:54AM I don't mean to foster our small circle-jerk fest-like party, but please let me know your thoughts. Although I don't advocate malicious criticism, I think our society, specifically heterosexual guys with pro-natural/anti-synthetic but who are not vocal, is doing a disservice toward reducing the synthetic-looking, when they are lackadaisical/complacent in airing their true preferences, perpetuating the look further. I don't want to be overly judgmental, but I say this because if someone (i.e., a guy) really wants to curb this behavior (medically unnecessary, elective implants), IMHO, expressing no-feedback, neutral-feedback, or even positive-feedback towards procedures/cases (esp. post-op cases) for cases they disagree with, doesn't not curb this behavior and actually has the opposite effect of encouraging this behavior (no/little feedback = good news/practice), even if unintended. Once again, personally, I try and air on side of benign feedback (e.g., anonymizing faces/identities in pics above) when in question and I understand the lines can be blurry regarding this. That being said, whatever our group (anti-synthetic look) has been doing has been ineffective, as societal attitudes along with ubiquity of synthetic-look is getting worse, not better. Once again, I'm not advocating amoral and malicious behavior, just foster increasing amplitude and creative alternatives for expressing and influencing our preference. As I've mentioned in other threads, we are entering times where teen girls under 18 years old are asking their parents for breast implants. It has been so trivialized that a colleague of mine, IN HER MID-20s , hosted a 'collagen injection party' (if not familiar, this is where girls get together, pay fee, solely to have a doctor come over and do mass injections of collagen and/or Botox for girls) AND THIS GIRL WORKED IN AND WAS AN MD/PHD CANDIDATE IN AN ADVANCED BIOLOGY LAB AT A MAJOR AMERICAN MEDICAL SCHOOL! On a related note, I understand why guys might be hesitant to express their feelings as many people (esp. here on ADT) label you crazy or proregulator zealot for expressing anti-synthetic preferences. Moreover, I find some of the opposition funny because 1). how can you legitimately argue against another's personal preference 2). actually get pissed off that you hold this opposing viewpoint/preference 3). they tend to start throwing inappropriate/irrelevant accusations in response. Part of me thinks they are threatened that our preferences might actually affect/defer some girls on-the-fence, but I digress. In the end, I realize I am only able to exert my preference/influence of this behavior through my consumer choices and express my opinion. Hang in there and keep up the good fight. P.S. I fully expect to be light up like a Christmas tree for my statements, but I feel it's worth it. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/9/2009 11:07:06 AM [Link] |
| SunShowers Member 333 Posts 4/08 | Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 11:51AM [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 3:59PM [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 5:26PM Though I believe as you do that the chance of changing minds about cosmetic surgery is small, every transformation in societal thinking begins with some small step. Perhaps in this forum, where sex is everything and where the pinnacles and arbiters of sexual allure may pay some little heed to what is said, a beginning of change can happen. In the last half of the 19th century, the epitome of feminine beauty was the 18 inch waist. Though everyone knew that such a small waist was an anatomical impossibility this side of a freak show, women cinched themselves into torturous corsets that broke their ribs and ruptured their vital organs. Death was a common result; serious injury was almost inevitable. What husbands and lovers thought when all that restrained flesh burst out of those corsets when they were removed is nowhere recorded that I know. But I suspect that a great many men if not most men were relieved to discover that their beloved had a realistic figure and were baffled why women tortured themselves in the first place. Every culture in every time has similar fads that are nonsense to us: the bustle, Twiggy in the early sixties, the balloon breasted bondage art of Stanton and Eneg in the fifties that may be the beginning of our present dilemma with breast augmentation, and the ‘falsies’ or padded bras of my own youth: all compelled women to go to ridiculous and often dangerous lengths to conform. The plastic surgeon is just the latest remedy for the almost universal and timeless conviction held by most women and many foolish men that natural beauty is not beautiful enough. To anyone reading this thread who believe , as I do, that cosmetic surgery never improves natural beauty(I do not, of course refer to reconstructive plastic surgery or the correction of disfiguring injuries and the like), I hope that you will step up and say so. To the girls who believe for whatever reason that a scalpel and two bags of silicone or salt water will make them more appealing, please reconsider. [Link] |
jayo  All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04 | Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 6:22PM I agree with a previous poster, most boob jobs are meant to enhance the look clothed. Except that in porn, you expect to see them unclothed. There's a difference between a porn star getting silicone and the office secretary. [Link] |
| Anadin Member 307 Posts 4/05 | Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 11:12PM Edited by - Anadin on 10/10/2009 11:14:37 PM [Link] |
| Bluto Deactivated User 511 Posts 3/09 | Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 11:44PM Hair, skin, teeth, legs, eyes and butt I notice. But boob size is totally irrelevant, and fake ones are creepy to the max. [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 10:54AM Still, my doubt remains that they are as appealing to men as the obsession with them in porn would indicate. I wonder if producers, who continually demonstrate a disregard and ignorance of of us, their audience, in so much and keep churning out poor product, have not simply come to assume that fake breasts are the uniform of the industry. And are they too lazy and complacent to ever challenge that assumption? Responses and threads in this forum make me believe that the nearly universal pressure performers feel or producers put on performers to get cosmetic surgery is based on an incorrect belief that it adds to their profits. I would like to see the industry at least look at their books to see if this is actually so. Prove that breast enlargement makes more money, at least, before telling performers and we customers that it does. [Link] |
| mindee Member If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 1:31PM I will agree with you up to a point. Working in the BBW world, we see things a little differently, and many of the women I work with are naturally big-breasted, but then again, most of the rest of our body is naturally big too!  Now I have been friends with Chessie Moore for a long time, and she has one big set of basketballs under her sweater, and while I would never want to be that large, I wouldn't mid being a bit bigger. But if you are trying to turn an 85 pound girl into someone with Chessie size boobs, even the finest surgeons can only do so much. If the woman is tiny to begin with, if you attach two watermelons to her chest, she's going to look freaky. You put the same size boobs on me, and they are not going to look so obviously fake. I have a good friend, who's not in the business. She's black, and while she's a bigger woman than I am, she doesn't look it. She also has the largest natural breasts I have ever been up-close & personal with. But on her, they don't look freakishly large. She's a beautiful, big, curvy woman, with one knock-out set of boobies. But as long as little tiny girls continue to bolt watermelons to their chests to attempt to curry favor with some crazy men, they will always look odd & out of place. For those who really like big boobs, I invite you to come to the dark side, and explore the world of BBWs!! I'll be waiting!!XO Mindee Edited by - mindee on 10/11/2009 1:34:09 PM [Link] |
| Anadin Member 307 Posts 4/05 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 2:54PM Plus there's the fact that pretty much all the popular girls seem to have them which probably is just as influential in a girl's decision to get them as an agent or producer. [Link] |
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| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 3:31PM Still, I do get your point. However, I'd just say, in this economy (US), although this sounds cliche, I'd rather have a person divert any money & time and invest in career/skill-dev applicable to the job (i.e., if a programming position, use money/time to take an advanced programming class) than use for surgically 'enhance' her look. When companies are cutting costs and resources, whereby employees get dumped with +10-20 hrs/week in work, all things being equal, I'd rather have the classes person on my team, than surgically enhanced person. Also, more importantly, my point is that breast implants don't necessarily = more attractive. It just means bigger tits and not every male or female in admission/HR/etc. etc. prefers bigger tits (e.g., me). [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 4:00PM Yeah, I would love to see some hard data calculating correlations between implants vs. non. If you don't think it's getting ridiculous, I'm sure the average number of cosmetic procedures for American female is not moving down or staying the same, but moving toward this woman who is about to break the record, 42 cosmetic procedures! I find this pathetic, not funny. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/11/2009 4:00:52 PM [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 5:24PM I have loved women since I can remember. To me, what makes any woman unattractive is her attitude; demeaning or hiding her own intelligence: her failure to see the beauty of herself and to let that beauty out where the world can see it. BBWs are a favorite of mine! So, too, are the women more commonly referred to as 'knockouts'(showing my age here, I know). But always, the most alluring women I have seen, in and out of the porn business, have been women who openly enjoy their sexuality, who pursue it with happiness and share themselves with delight. I guess my point is that breast size is irrelevant and physical appearance is pretty irrelevant to why I love women. I flatter myself to think that in this respect I am luckier than most, that I have discovered and enjoyed what really matters about physical pleasure and sex. Just to hold a woman, to be nearly delirious with the warmth and feel and smell of her, and to know by her closeness and her enjoyment of sharing herself with you that she wants just then to be nowhere else in the world, is an experience I would trade for nothing. It is an experience that transcends anything about big boobs or a nice ass or a hot body. It makes even thinking of women as 'bitches' and 'sluts' and 'whores' impossible, and truly infuriating to hear from anyone, especially from women (off subject, oops!). Women are so much more than any man deserves. Mind, I've always been a 'tit man' myself, and if I had my 'druthers' well... But it just isn't that big a deal to me, and I believe there are more of us than there aren't, for whom cosmetic augmentations and readjustments rather detract from nature than enhance it. Thanks for your thoughts. As always they were a pleasure to read. You may be married to an old coot, as you said elsewhere, but he's one very smart old coot, or one very lucky one. [Link] |
| mindee Member If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 7:21PM Duefuss... I think my old coot is a little of both!!  [Link] |
| Bluto Deactivated User 511 Posts 3/09 | Posted - Oct 11 2009 : 7:39PM Edited by - heynow on 10/12/2009 11:57:44 PM [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 8:59AM In your posts, I've noticed, you refer to girls as 'skanks'. Had you any other reaction than the one you've had, I would be surprised. The only shocker here is that you shook yourself out of your misogynist big booty rape fantasies long enough to put up a vomiting emoticon and hit “ctrl C” not once, but twice! Wow! Thanks for the encouragement. [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 10:54AM I wouldn't mind breast jobs if they weren't so apparently fake. Like spotting a toupee. 1. scars under the breasts; horrific 2. half moon scar where they sliced the nipple; looks painful not sexy 3. pucker sacks and ripples 4. the way they defy gravity in missionary positions 5. I love the little spinner look (Cindy Hope) and so I go for a girl whose tiny body is in perfect proportion but then those balloons ruin it [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 12:08PM I guess for me, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't want to sound pseudo-intellectual here, but the Cindy Hope case is a good example of American porn culture being imported-into/corrupting once pristine areas (i.e., Eastern Europe & Russia porn) instead of filtering out all the stupid shit that comes with it. I am just waiting for the fake cocks to show up over there. If it ever does, I'll probably conclude the world is hopeless ---> I'll probably chemically castrate myself and move to an Indian Reservation. Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/12/2009 12:19:30 PM [Link] |
| Dubious_Leftovers Senior Member And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 1:08PM Edited by - heynow on 10/12/2009 11:59:32 PM [Link] |
| deputyduffy Member 396 Posts 8/08 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 3:32PM For example. Hillary Scott. I really think her boob job really helped her. She not only looked more like a porn star but also acted more like one too. I also think she probably got a few roles in features that she wouldn't have before the boob job. But that's just my opinion. I also like Jill Kelly's, Janine Lindemulder's and I also like Meggan Mallone's new look. I guess I take them case by case instead of just condemning the whole idea. My  [Link] |
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| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 4:06PM They'd be right. I'm sure they could. Aesthetically, though, so many cosmetic enhancements are obvious and awful looking and enhance nothing and I continue to wonder why anyone would think differently. I know many who get boob jobs in the business THINK or are told that they enhance the bottom line, but I'd bet that's wrong, and I'd like someone to take that bet and prove in black and white and dollar signs that we customers buy any more porn because the girls have boob jobs than we would if NONE of them had boob jobs. Porn became big business because it was decriminalized and suddenly had a big market of people that, being people, love sex, love doing sex, love watching sex, love watching sex while they're doing sex. Porn did not become big business because women started getting boob jobs. [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 11:29PM [Link] |
| warrenwest67 Member Thanks for the mammaries. 966 Posts 1/07 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 8:29AM [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 8:47AM Personally (and I hazard a guess that a high majority of the anti-synthetic crowd) don't include the more 'medically-related' cases in my criticisms. Some of these include (but are not limited to) burns, congenital defects, and mastectomies. [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 10:54AM [Link] |
| warrenwest67 Member Thanks for the mammaries. 966 Posts 1/07 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 11:10AM So let me revel in a bit of Boob Job Heaven....    [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 11:30AM I too don't understand why girls go overboard with the size thing, if (from what I have seen and heard everywhere), the 'good-boob jobs' (I disagree, but) are the ones where the girl only jumps like 1 cup size (i.e., A --> B, B --> C, and yes sadly C --> D), not the usual 2 cups (i.e., A --> C, B --> D, C --> T). In the '2 cup jump', their skin on breast stretches so much. Also, I can't stand the ribbing effect (the ribbing looks like a wound closed with horizontal mattress sutures; not pretty by anyone's opinion) Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/13/2009 12:01:46 PM [Link] |
| mindee Member If you don't break the rules, you'll never have any fun! 717 Posts 10/06 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 12:06PM [Link] |
| torris Senior Member Deep within Mila's anus 1827 Posts 1/00 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 1:42PM And on the photos you submitted, third one is a good example of the half moon nipple scar. ***shiver*** [Link] |
| duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 1:56PM [Link] |
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| warrenwest67 Member Thanks for the mammaries. 966 Posts 1/07 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 4:26PM Oh yeah. I forgot one: how the aureola gets that "smeared chocolate" look and the nipple flattens out as reasons against boob jobs. And on the photos you submitted, third one is a good example of the half moon nipple scar. ***shiver*** [/quote] See, there is the difference. I find all 3 of the girls I posted to have fantastic boob jobs. All 3 seem to have nipple scars. I could have fun on them for years. Its the bottom scars that make me shiver. [Link] |
| warrenwest67 Member Thanks for the mammaries. 966 Posts 1/07 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 4:36PM How about this - I don't need Viagra, But I like to use it now and then. A) I am larger for 4 hours or so. and B) I can use my member like a tool, I can think of something I like to do/try and just do it, and @ 42 years of age, that is not always possible. But it does where off. So I guess I can see where a girl would just want to have bigger boobs just to be different. [Link] |
| simon33333 All-Star Member 828 Posts 9/09 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 8:32PM It's not the end of the world but this nation is in tuff shape. That's a whole other story, money is tight. Califronia is still in bad shape. Iam going to stop with that comment. I would like to see the porn industry survive this vicious economic cycle. People will pay for porn , yes. But people need to eat as well. I wonder, how much porn is done in NewYork? I am concerned with porn and with everything connected with the ecomonic situation. trimmed quote Edited by - heynow on 10/14/2009 12:48:31 AM [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Oct 13 2009 : 8:32PM [div] warrenwest67, you bright up good points. In another thread, Kimi Lixx talked about the psychological/societal pressures about boobs (in the US) and was revealing to me. However, I dispute your last sentence as I think that has changed and big boobs aren't really unique anymore compared to < 1980s. I also have issues with the health effects, especially the unknown ones. [/div] [Link] |
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