I'm working on a song called "God Bless Canada" anyone care to join me in a verse.

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LOL, j/k

Yes, we have speed limits too, but if I can walk faster than you can drive, why bother? This was just an analogy (perhaps not the best one) but I think my point was pretty clear.

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Now if an STD is received during "work" does workmans comp cover the costs?

Contracted Services is another very fine line, many performers are not "employee's," so if one isn't an "employee" how does OSHA become involved?

As a "Contractor," I pay the "contractee" to do a job." I don't pay any social security taxes, workmans comp taxes, nor do I withhold any state, federal, or local taxes from the "Contractee."

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Edited by - lindi on 9/17/2004 11:22:53 PM

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Some companies are requiring 2-week tests instead of 30-day tests. Some are requiring that foreign talent go through an AIM-approved chain of custody to send their blood to the States to get tested 2 weeks before they come to the States, then get tested again as soon as they get to the States.
Quite a few companies have stopped internal anal cumshots.

All of these things seem much more realistic, will protect the talent to a much better degree than before March, and will not simply force most porn producers to shoot outside of California.

I'll just say one last thing - I really love Las Vegas.

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If any economic activity can be determined legally to be an industry, OSHA can regulate it in terms of health and safety.

Generally when such regulations are written, the regulatory agency holds public hearings to see the reaction of the regulated industry to the new standards.

Does the California Health and Safety law have such a public hearing structure? If it doesn't, it may be possible to get an injunction against the condoms and other stuff on the grounds that the regulation were written in illegal secrecy.

The only way around this is that Congress or the California State legislature must write legislation to supercede the agency's regulations.

It seems to me that the way around this issue is to go the way of daredevils or circus performers. For example, acts like Sigfried and Roy or other animal trainers cannot be regulated by Nevada OSHA because of the nature of the business.

I'm sure such performers are covered under exemptions in the state and national health and safety laws.

The porn industry needs such an exemption to the CA and US Health and Safety laws and you need it pronto. You'd better sue immediately to block the implementation of the regulations.

lordish

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Can OSHA do this?

Yes

Is it legal?

Well that is a little more difficult. In court you could probably get some of the rules over turned. Such as the gloves, dental dams and goggles but the condoms would probably stay. The industry would have to make a compelling case as to why the use of these safety items would be hazardous to their business.

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Just like many other things, the actions of a few bring down government regulation on all.

- Saki

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- Saki

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alot of this was self induced, why didn't the industry take care of the TTBoy problem itself? how many stories do you have to hear about a dirtbag before you say to yourself 'this guy is a threat to my business maybe i should do or say something'. i hope Darren, Lara and Jessica's attorneys take the opportunity to sue his ass out of existence.

those who think they're gonna beat this in court i think are wrong, to anybody outside the porn industry requiring porn performers to wear condoms sounds totally reasonable - the arguments against them will fall upon deaf ears. it will be a long expensive legal battle, one i bet nobody takes up.

for awhile, knowing human behaviour, people will bury their heads in the sand and wait to see how aggressively OSHA enforces condoms in the porn workplace. but it sure looks like the handwriting is on the wall - it's Vegas or bust for gonzo.

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I think OSHA regulations supercede the relationship between the worker and the workplace. I could be wrong, but I thought OSHA covered jobsites ...without regard for whether or not the people on those jobsites are "employees" or "subcontractors". Their primary concern is safety in the workplace, no matter what relationship the employer has with the people on his site. If a company has no employees, and no subcontractors...just a single proprietor who does all the work himself, he still has to comply with OSHA standards, mainly because (once again) even if the employer is not putting any "workers" at risk, his disposal practices are considered a public health concern. Technically speaking, filming solo masturbation sequences of yourself would now require you to dispose of your used condom and tissues in a special receptacle. You can't just ditch that stuff with the rest of your trash...it defeats the public health concern issues if not.

Sorry for the edits...mIsssPelleengs gah-looorrrr.

Edited by - guy capo on 9/18/2004 1:36:04 PM

Edited by - guy capo on 9/18/2004 1:38:04 PM

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This could be like the Extreme Associates case...in which the "worst of the worst" is being singled out to rattle everybody's cages. If this OSHA thing is the new "law of the land", why wouldn't OSHA do a round-up of multiple companies at once? Right now, it looks like this is a way for the government to punish the industry for the Darren James issue...nothing more. Any true effort to enforce this new plan would call for MULTIPLE fines for MULTIPLE companies, executed like a 6-in-the-morning Compton round up of crack houses. Right now it looks like an isolated case to make an example out of somebody...so obviously the govt. will go after the company that is the most vulnerable...just like the Extreme Associates case.

I agree with most of you in so much as every occupation has its own inherent hazards. If you're afraid of dying in a high speed car crash, you probably shouldn't be a NASCAR driver. If you fear falling to your death, you might not want to be a roofer or high-rise window washer. The pitfalls are no reason to ban the sport, or stop erecting buildings higher than a single story. As a producer, I accept the risks of having to clean up my set after I shoot..."cross contamination"...another OSHA mandated facet of following blood-borne pathogens and universal precautions rules.

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These bureaucrats don't care one way or another. Even for a little guy it's difficult (but not impossible) to do business here. The city zoning regulators, the Fire Marshalls, Cal/OSHA, the State Board of Equalization (just to name a few) all have the power to shut you down if you don't comply with their various regulations. These guys make the IRS seem reasonable.

This is why I'm not fazed dazed or surprised. In fact, the only surprising thing is that it took this long to get around to the porn industry, but the HIV crisis made it a foregone conclusion, imo.

Even so, I love California, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. That a few bad apples spoiled it for the whole bunch is a shame, and I hope things work out without anyone having to move. I no longer care about condoms in porn, but a lot of people do, and if one studio is producing condomless porn it would probably put the rest out of business.

Given that, I must say how impressed I am with the degree of stoicism displayed by our pornographer friends ;)

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Edited by - Renee on 9/18/2004 10:43:12 PM

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An elevator installation/construction company was contracted by the Bradbury Building in Downtown, LA to renovate their antique birdcage-style elevator. The elevator company was awarded the contract for the job by the property management company as part of a competitive bidding process.

The Bradbury building is a historic building of unique architectural origins in LA. You've most likely seen it in many Charles Bronson movies and Blade Runner.

An accident occurred on the jobsite where one man was seriously injured and another killed. OSHA's investigation started within hours of the accident. OSHA determined that the building owner was liable for the death because the property manager (acting as an agent for the owners) forbid the elevator company from following standard procedures which required attaching the necessary rigging equipment to the walls in the elevator pit area. The walls were covered in tile that the property manager claimed could not be replaced. The property manager insisted the equipment be attached to the concrete floor.

OK, so this isn't directly related to the porn world but it's a real-world example of how Cal/OSHA works. The owner gets fined for safety violations they had no direct control over. They were subsequently sued for wrongful death by the surviving children of the deceased. The most damning evidence in the court case was the OSHA report.

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Or having to stop at sobriety checkpoints because a few people don't know when they should call a cab.

Fair? No. Surprising? No.

- Saki

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I have been reading what Ernest Greene (Nina Hartley's husband) has been saying about the CAL/OSHA situation. He gives me hope that things are not as bad as they seem. Greene points out that CAL/OSHA doesn't have the authority to decide if an independent contractor is an employee. Greene mentions various criteria that x-rated actors would have to fall under in order to be considered to be employees. Ernest says that CAL/OSHA can not prove that HIV was transmitted during the making of a particular movie. Greene says that CAL/OSHA is making use of circumstantial evidence. Ernest Greene mentions other legal problems with what CAL/OSHA is doing. He says that he knows which performer complained to CAL/OSHA but he won't say who it is. In the forum area of Nina Hartley's website, Ernest and others have been discussing the repercussions of CAL/OSHA's actions: http://nina.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1931
I'm curious if other people agree with Ernest Greene's opinion about CAL/OSHA's liklihood of success when it comes to shutting down the x-rated industry.

Jamie Gardner www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm

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Exactly what is the legal relationship between the fashion magazine, clothing company/designer, or cosmetic company that is producing the fashion show/photo shoot, and the fashion models, I don't know. Do these magazines/companies have to carry business insurance, in case someone is injured on their worksite? I suspect so. However, I don't know if there are any OSHA regulations that cover photo shoots or fashion shows. There's certainly nothing equivalent to HIV in the fashion industry.

Perhaps Tony C. would know the answers to some of these questions; he works in New York City as a photographer, and must have some familiarity with the fashion industry.

Other mainstream entertainers in the US, like actors, orchestra musicians, cameramen and so on, belong to unions, that would negotiate their working conditions for their members.

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I read that most producers want to move to Vegas, but ultimately I think that this California situation may become a Federal one not too far in the future, forcing the companies that had eventually moved there to move again.
I also read Canada, but that is quite far away from their present California premises and also doesn't offer the possibility of outdoor shots for most of the year.

So why not Tijuana?
It's very near to Southern California, it already has a prosperous sex industry and it has great weather for most of the year. More, Mexican officers and politicians are very easy to corrupt and it may be possible for a few gonzo porn companies to pool together and have some favourable regulations approved in exchange of some cheap money and sex.

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So although it may seem to some that studio heads are taking this lightly, there are a lot of things that are being discussed.

I love ADT, but there are some things that are too important and too uncertain to talk about proposed policies and ways to deal with them.

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Someone mentioned Mexico - Metro shot a bunch of movies down there several years ago but I believe it was at a private resort, not Tijuana.

Mexico is kinda funny about stuff like that. I haven't been back there since a hotel security guard pulled a gun and ordered us out of the pool. Sure, it was late, we were buck naked and drunker than a three-peckered armadillo on Mescal, but frankly I thought it was a little uncalled for. And what are you gonna do, call the cops? LOL

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_________________
"You wanna point your finger at the unclear
You outta point your finger in the mirror
You wanna trip, quit cause I'ma keep rippin'
And you can bitch but the strippers gonna keep strippin'" --Kid Rock

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If the companies here don't take a stand and allow this farce to stand, it would be the end of US porn and a windfall for foreign companies like Private. Bet they would be laughing all the way to the bank at our stupidity.

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The Ban of Creampies is a good thing imho. Since it's a ban all companies are required to follow it or they get fined. No one can capitalize on this niche fetish anymore.

I cheer on the hepatitis immunization thing! Moreover it should be extended to HEP A and HEP C (which will be soon avaiable, the serum is already at the experimental stage of human testing)

Since Ernest is right that it would be very difficult to prove beyond doubt on which set an actor got infected, all studios could have to pay some kind of health tax in a fund, so in case an infection occurs the payment of medical treatment for the talent is ensured. Or every company needs to have an insurance for the case of a health hazard. Maybe even something like a union. This would wipe out lots of low level internet porn, where a camera and a 100 dollar note seems to be enough when speaking of working conditions.

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As I've said before, you can't leave this responsibility up to the performers. Most of the 18-year-old girls in this business are illiterate, unmotivated to look after themselves -- Jesus, they can't even legally be trusted to drink alcohol, and the industry wants to shove the responsibility for saying "no" to the ridiculous acts the industry itself demands of them into their laps?

As to what's gonna happen next, I have no idea. As to what SHOULD happen next, I'm not sure -- except fleeing to Vegas doesn't seem likely, considering how cheap most producers are already ... are they going to pay for transportation and housing for girls to come do a $150 BJ scene, or a $700 boy/girl? That's a laugh. I don't know whether there's really enough native talent there, or whether people will be willing to move there ... we all know that the porn industry feeds off of L.A. as both a place where an abundant underclass of unemployed youths and starry-eyed immigrants are ripe for the porno recruitment corps ...

Edited by - Bill on 9/20/2004 7:24:35 PM

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The guys who get into porn at 18 are generally lube-jockeys and gofers. There aren't too many depenable woodsmen who are the tender young age of 18.

The chicks who get into porn at 18 are immediately put in front of a camera and asked to show the world her uterus.

I think *that's* why the females of the species are always brought up as a topic of concern when the idea of raising the age limit come up in discussion.

As for the whole rest of it, I think I'm just gonna hide and watch. If the industry decides to come to the East Coast though, I'll be more than happy to commute to NYC again every day.

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Edited by - M.B. on 9/20/2004 11:27:16 AM

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Edited by - M.B. on 9/20/2004 12:38:41 PM

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The boxing analogy is false . There are already safety requirements in place to prevent some of the more 'inventive' methods of damaging your opponent - lead weights in the gloves for instance . And don't forget the gloves themselves , and the presence of a ( supposedly ) neutral referee . You could argue that the current regulations don't go far enough , and that the proposed porno regs are too draconian . But that's a different kettle of fish : And one incidentally that I'd agree with you on .

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First to X-Ray

At the legislative investigative hearing, the Cal-OHSA rep made very clear that practices such as non-barrier-protected oral sex and external ejaculations on bare skin that the industry considers fairly low risk don't meet the BBP standard and would be probhibited under OHSA rules if OHSA's authority in the X-rated workplace is established. There appears little give in this matter from their side and no willingness to negotiate with any of us. Since I believe their real agenda is prohibition, they are likely to stand firm on the most restrictive interpretation of the regs possible. It will be very difficult to strike a deal with these devils. Our best hope is that pressure from above, via some friendly faces in the State Assembly may soften their stance somewhat. Otherwise, the whole thing will have to be tested in court, with unpredictable results.

And to DAC, who has lately been lobbing pot-shots in my general direction. First, a point of clarification. I am not now and have never been an employee of LFP. I am an independent contractor there through my corporation and edit Taboo as a free-lancer. In no way do my opinions represent those of LFP, or vice-versa. Larry Flynt and I share many areas of agreement on this whole subject, but his ideas are his and mine are mine. DAC may not like what I have to say, but he's out of line in implying that I shill for anybody.

If he had been in this business a bit longer and understood something of the long history behind my involvement in the evolution of STD-control measures in this industry, I would like to think he would be less inclined to impute sinister motives to my statements and actions since becoming chairman of AIM's board of directors. I am now and have always been dedicated to what I perceive to be the best interests of performers. How those best interests are proprerly secured is a matter upon which reasonable people may disagree, but I reject utterly any suggestion of hidden agendas or political machinations on my part to the advantage of producers and detriment of performers.

My question to you, DAC, is just exactly what is it that I've said that you consider false or irresponsible. If you're going to slam me by both my working and legal names, you can at least cite some examples of what you consider to be false and/or inapprorpriate statements I have made.

Ernest Greene

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OSHA is a subtle way for the government to kick in your door without having to use a ram-rod. The OSHA inspectors I've dealt with in the embalming lab were festidious in their surprise visits...fine-tooth-comb type shit. Mostly on issues of cross contamination. The obvious requirements were easy to follow...the details is what they were really there to inspect.

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