Can Contract Girls Save the Industry?

Author	Post
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:43AM I'm curious if the industry thinks that increasing the number of contract girls may help them get through this tough period of uncertainty, while we wait for Congress to finish their debate over the latest anti-piracy legislation (which may be a very long wait). What I'm wondering is whether contracts can be authored and agreed to, whereby the girls agree to only perform strip club tours and work as escorts under a financial agreement with the studios. In this manner, the porn industry will continue to find and create the starlets of the future, and then reap financial rewards from the starlets as they interact with their fans through strip shows and escorting arrangements. Up to this point, it seems that most studios have been operating independently of most of the talent's operations. It appears that the studios hire them temporarily through the agencies, shoot porn, and then market the porn content itself. Some of the girls make a name for themselves in the process, and then go off on their own to make financial windfalls touring as strippers and/or working as escorts. The problem the industry faces now is that due to piracy, the value of new porn content is low. This value is likely to remain low or even become lower in the future if no legislative relief is received from Congress to thwart the stealing habits of the Napster Generation (Generation Y). Perhaps the adult film studios can begin identifying young talent that they believe have the potential to develop a fan following and become starlets that are in demand with strip clubs and escort services. Then, conceivably the studios can negotiate with these potential future starlets for exclusive contracts that pass ownership of the starlet’s screen name to the studios. At this point, the agreements would stipulate that the talent cannot market themselves outside the studio's operations by their screen name. The agreement should also stipulate that the starlets cannot autograph memorabilia without the studio's express written consent. If the studios had ownership of the starlets' industry screen names, once some of the girls rise to the top to become popular with fans, the studios should be able to negotiate with other types of adult entertainment providers, such as strip clubs and escort services, for royalty payments for their permission to use the starlets' screen names for marketing purposes. The studios could themselves make arrangements for the girls to go on tours of strip clubs under the studio's contract. It's been said many times on this site by industry insiders that porn companies cannot promote tours like the music industry does to survive. As a layman, at the moment, I'm not completely convinced that this isn't possible. The industry seems to be having a very difficult time adjusting to the challenges of piracy, as well as inexpensive legitimate content on the web, for the time being. It suggests to me that until we learn what Washington can do for us, (if anything), the porn industry must find marketable commodities other than the content itself. It must also find ways to increase the value of its content by offering legitimate paying customers something other than the content alone. For example, porn studios could set up reward points systems for legitimate customers on their websites. As the legitimate customer racks up points for making purchases, they could perhaps spend those points on such things as autographed memorabilia from the contract girls that studios could have agreements with in the near future, if they work fast now. Such reward points could also possibly be cashed in by the legitimate customers to pay a cover charge at a strip club in their city that is featuring the studio's talent at the time. Such "porno points" may also potentially be used as a way for a legitimate customer to reduce an escort agency fee on the booking of a studio contract girl. The value of porn content itself may be quickly fading away, but the value of the talent themselves to porn fans remains high, and may be rising higher. You need only read the many posts on this site to see how much the porn fans love their favorite porn starlets. They pay big money on cover charges to see porn stars dance at strip clubs. They pay big money to experience a personal encounter with porn stars in the escorting scene. They also pay big money to fly out to Las Vegas and visit the AEE convention to meet their favorite starlets. Without a porn industry, there won't be porn stars in the future. This is something that perhaps the talent agencies and the new girls need to come to grips with. The luxury of working as an independent girl may have to end for the industry to survive enough to give them a chance to be stars in the future. I'd be very interested in what industry insiders on this site think of what I've written here. I'm just a porn fan. I've been frustrated recently by the reduction in the type of content that I like to view. I'm not sure if studios increasing the use of exclusive contracts with talent, and then leveraging those agreements can work or not in this industry. However, this is the best idea that I can come up with. I hope it starts a new discussion on what the industry can do to survive in an environment where the value of the media they produce is worth so little on its own. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on Apr 17 2012 [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 12:18PM ^ I never thought it through to the degree that you have, but even when the music industry was throwing fits about Napster, I was thinking "Musicians can make money the way they always have, through live performances. Recorded music can serve them as a form of advertising." So I am sympathetic to your approach. I'm not in the industry, though, so my opinion doesn't matter. [Link]
David Cop-a-feel Deactivated User Trust me, honey, it gets better 323 Posts 10/10	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 6:16PM So are you advocating porn studios become pimps for the talent's escorting activities? [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 6:54PM David Cop-a-feel wrote: So are you advocating porn studios become pimps for the talent's escorting activities? Click to expand No, not exactly. However, I'm wondering whether it makes sense for the porn studios to license the rights to use the porn stars' names to escorting agencies, as well as strip clubs. The studios need to own those names first, of course. It may be easier for the porn studios to have more direct involvement with strip club tours rather than escorting arrangements. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 6:55:20 PM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 7:40PM Well, it'd make sense for a studio or an agent to "bundle" all their stars into a package and send them out on tour. I personally wouldn't drive more than 10 miles to see one star feature dance, but throw together a quartet of say; Andy San Dimas, Katie St. Ives, Lexi Belle, and Marie McCray, into one feature show and I'd drive an hour to see it. [Link]

twohands0215 Member My first favorite Pornstar and the begining of my anal fetish 28 Posts 4/12	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 8:36PM One can't fight the internet and win. Every industry subject to online piracy has had to adapt their methods of providing content to consumers to either discourage piracy or provide content by a method cheap and fast enough that most folks do not bother with trying to pirate it. The porn industry will be no different. Their best bet is to make releases first available only online with instant streaming and no downloads before making downloads or DVDs available. Once a digital copy get in the hands of the public its over. Then again that's only until pirates develop a way, if there isn't one already, to capture or records streams. Like I said you can't fight the internet and win. That is until the government employs some draconian enforcement of the internet in the name of stopping piracy. And then the pirates and hackers figures our how to get around those as well. And then the Government get's even more strict. Rinse and repeat until we live under complete tyranny on and off the internet. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 8:51PM twohands0215: This topic is specifically about whether or not exclusive contracts with porn talent and reward points systems can help the industry survive. Could we stay on topic here please? Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 8:56:57 PM [Link]
Dread Senior Member Latex and boobs 5085 Posts 3/07	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:36PM well if the contract starts don't SHOOT, which most of them don't outside of like 5 movies, how is that saving the industry? ----Dread---- [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:44PM DreadSynapse: I'm not sure if it's true that contract stars don't shoot many movies. There are contract girls at Digital Playground that are cast in new movies fairly often. At any rate, my original post is asking whether or not attempting to monetize the relationship between porn fans and porn stars can be accomplished by the studios, in lieu of the fact that new porn content is likely to be worth very little in the marketplace in the future. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 11:46:45 PM [Link]
alucard365 Member You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer 556 Posts 1/12	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:47PM Contracts are so dated, I can't believe their still going on today. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:51PM alucard365: It's true that contracts haven't been utilized by studios as much in recent years. However, my original post is asking the question of whether or not they should be brought back as exclusive marketing agreements to provide the porn studios with another form of revenue that they will likely need in the future to stay in business in this environment. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 12:34:35 AM [Link]
InFamous Deactivated User 1051 Posts 2/12	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:00AM ^ I say no more contract girls stuff, you want girls to work with all types of companies as much as they can. Also to do acts like Anal, IR, DP, Gangbangs and other acts if they choose to that Digital Playground or Wicked won't do. It will hurt the fans of those performer who enjoy watching them for there favorite companies. The days of the contract girls are gone but you still have Digital Playground or Wicked with there boring movies. Edited by - Infamous on 4/18/2012 1:02:53 AM [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:05AM InFamous: I didn't start this topic to ask what fans would like to see. I started this topic to inquire if using exclusive marketing arrangements would help the industry stay afloat in these uncertain times. It really won't matter whether or not fans want to see different girls all the time in studio lines if the studios can't stay in business. Also, I don't see the relation between contract status and sex acts that talent is willing to perform. One should have nothing to do with the other. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 1:34:33 AM [Link]
katie_St_Ives Member One and only #PenisPixie 285 Posts 9/09	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 5:27AM Rosco Fuji wrote: Well, it'd make sense for a studio or an agent to "bundle" all their stars into a package and send them out on tour. I personally wouldn't drive more than 10 miles to see one star feature dance, but throw together a quartet of say; Andy San Dimas, Katie St. Ives, Lexi Belle, and Marie McCray, into one feature show and I'd drive an hour to see it. Click to expand I totally agree :) [Link]
InFamous Deactivated User 1051 Posts 2/12	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 8:03AM raincoater-smutster wrote: InFamous: I didn't start this topic to ask what fans would like to see. I started this topic to inquire if using exclusive marketing arrangements would help the industry stay afloat in these uncertain times. It really won't matter whether or not fans want to see different girls all the time in studio lines if the studios can't stay in business. Also, I don't see the relation between contract status and sex acts that talent is willing to perform. One should have nothing to do with the other. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 1:34:33 AM Click to expand I don't agree with you on this one, it's just a bad ideal. [Link]

pornlaw Member 578 Posts 10/05	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:42AM The days of "porn videos" are coming to an end. Even those on the internet... The industry has to be redefined as the "sex industry" and not just the porn industry. Cam sites are making more than the video companies ever could. Guys will always need to masturbate (as do women) the only difference is that now the younger generation does it to a live model and not a video. Online dating, social media and PUA have changed the way women and men interact in person and in general. As technology advances, online virtual sex will become more of a reality. AEBN has just released their Real Touch device for cams. Why will guys watch a video and masturbate when then will be able to get a real live model to do it for them for $50 ? Virtual prostitution will be the next 5-10 yrs of this industry. Its a natural evolution of the business. I am not making any judgment calls about morality or legality but that seems to be where its going... [Link]
aclayfan All-Star Member 5059 Posts 8/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:47AM Well, plenty of thought went into this presentation on how to increase income for the industry's companies. It isn't well received here because the fans {consumers} can't see anything in it for them except increased lame contract porn. You see no connection between content and contract status, but history tells us differently. You're right the porn business model is fractured, but such a structured solution seems fanciful in the internet world. It's far more likely the contract system of Vivid, DP, etc. is headed for oblivion. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:01AM DreadSynapse wrote: well if the contract starts don't SHOOT, which most of them don't outside of like 5 movies, how is that saving the industry? Click to expand That is the reality for almost all the contract stars and I'd add that those movies don't necessarily get released in the same year that they were produced. Here's a list of studios whom I know still have contract stars: Digital Playground, Vivid, Wicked and Girlfriend Films. I may have forgotten some but these are the probably the biggest studios anyway. Just look at their contract stars and then look at which titles were released during one year. The reasons why a contract is a great thing today is that the performer doesn't have to shoot a lot and still makes a decent salary. They don't have to pay an agent who finds them jobs. They have a studio to promote her and gets her some strip club bookings as well. The only downside is that most performers can't shoot for other studios but that's rarely a problem for them. I still think that it's possible to make a very decent living without a contract but you may have to do certain things that contract stars don't necessarily have to do like anal, IR, DP's, BSDM and so on. Of course the most important thing for non-contract performers is their agent. Just take a look at the performers Mark Spiegler handles and you'll see that each of them gets plenty of work and that's without a contract. Of course Mark is in a class all of his own. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:32AM aclayfan wrote: ... It isn't well received here because the fans {consumers} can't see anything in it for them except increased lame contract porn. You see no connection between content and contract status, but history tells us differently. ... Click to expand aclayfan: It's true that up to this point, the studios interested in hiring contract girls have been the feature-oriented studios. Gonzo studios have been interested in using talent agencies because gonzo fans have an appetite to see different girls in the various volumes of gonzo series all the time. However, this doesn't mean that the gonzo studios can't adjust to using exclusive marketing agreements with gonzo porn girls that they value. The content doesn't need to change, only the legal agreements. Certain sacrifices will need to be made by the gonzo studios and the gonzo porn fans alike. The gonzo fans are already making sacrifices in terms of content because the studios can't currently afford to shoot the type of content that these fans want. This will only get worse if the studios don't come up with a different business model soon. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 10:38:59 AM [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:47AM pat362 wrote: ... I still think that it's possible to make a very decent living without a contract but you may have to do certain things that contract stars don't necessarily have to do like anal, IR, DP's, BSDM and so on. Of course the most important thing for non-contract performers is their agent. Just take a look at the performers Mark Spiegler handles and you'll see that each of them gets plenty of work and that's without a contract. Of course Mark is in a class all of his own. Click to expand pat362: It won't be possible for independent girls to "make a very decent living" in the future when non-contract gonzo porn studios can't afford to continue to finance the "IR, DP's, BSDM and so on" that you like to view when their content isn't worth a nickel on the street. The gonzo girls are already getting less work because of a reduction in the amount of content produced. Many of them won't be getting plenty of work in the future no matter who their agent is. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 10:51:42 AM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:57PM ^Actually there are still plenty of studios shooting BSDM and gonzo stuff on a regular basis. Brazzer, Reality king, BangBros, Dogfart, Mofos, Porn Fidelity, Teen Fidelity, Society S&M and all the Kink sites to name a few. The studios that shoot the least amount of porn are the contract studios because they can't afford those contracts. [Link]
InFamous Deactivated User 1051 Posts 2/12	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:06PM ^ I say that it will hurt most of the studios who shoot the different content that the fans enjoy watching. They want to see the girls in those companies that make the different content they shoot for. It will also hurt the black performers (male and female) who don't get to shoot for some companies that don't do IR. It's just a bad ideal. I do agree with pat362 the industry doesn't need more no contract girls. Edited by - InFamous on 4/18/2012 2:10:53 PM [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:11PM pat362 wrote: ^Actually there are still plenty of studios shooting BSDM and gonzo stuff on a regular basis. Brazzer, Reality king, BangBros, Dogfart, Mofos, Porn Fidelity, Teen Fidelity, Society S&M and all the Kink sites to name a few. The studios that shoot the least amount of porn are the contract studios because they can't afford those contracts. Click to expand pat362: Yes, for the time being there is still a good amount of new material being produced. That's only because laser disk sales are still providing some revenue to the studios. However, most studio insiders will tell you that they're not doing much better than breaking even right now, due to the reduced laser disk sales and availability of pirated and/or cheap legitimate content on the web. It won't be long before the primary cohort of porn viewers are those from the Napster Generation. I don't see them buying laser disks in any significant numbers at all. I'd suspect that the contract studios of today shoot the least amount of porn because they're focused on producing features. These are bigger-budget X-rated films for mass consumption. I'd imagine that these projects take much longer to plan and implement. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 2:21:21 PM [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:18PM InFamous wrote: ^ I say that it will hurt most of the studios who shoot the different content that the fans enjoy watching. They want to see the girls in those companies that make the different content they shoot for. It will also hurt the black performers (male and female) who don't get to shoot for some companies that don't do IR. It's just a bad ideal. I do agree with pat362 the industry doesn't need more no contract girls. Edited by - InFamous on 4/18/2012 2:10:53 PM Click to expand InFamous: You seem to be associating the idea of an exclusive studio contract with talent with the feature-oriented productions of companies like Digital Playground. These are two separate concepts. Just because the contract girls of today can only be found in feature-oriented X-rated films at the moment doesn't necessarily mean that contract girls couldn't work exclusively for gonzo companies and continue to perform the same gonzo-style sex acts that you prefer. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 2:26:20 PM [Link]
twohands0215 Member My first favorite Pornstar and the begining of my anal fetish 28 Posts 4/12	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 8:23PM raincoater-smutster wrote: twohands0215: This topic is specifically about whether or not exclusive contracts with porn talent and reward points systems can help the industry survive. Could we stay on topic here please?... Click to expand Whould your suggestion have popularity, sure. WOuld it save the industry? The answer is I doubt it. My post did address what the industry has to do to survive which hardly seems off topic, but way to be an a-hole. [Link]

raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:48PM twohands0215 wrote: Whould your suggestion have popularity, sure. WOuld it save the industry? The answer is I doubt it. My post did address what the industry has to do to survive which hardly seems off topic, but way to be an a-hole. Click to expand twohands0215: The topic title is "Can Contract Girls Save the Industry?". The word "contract" doesn't appear anywhere in your first three-paragraph post. Nor does this first post of yours discuss anything relating to exclusive agreements with talent. My intention was to respectfully keep the discussion on this topic to that of contracts with talent. I'm not sure why you're seemingly taking offense to my reply. At present, I don't feel that I owe you an apology. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 9:50:11 PM [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 4:59AM No I don't really think so. Porn companies have moved away from contracts the last few years. The risk/reward just doesn't appear to be what it once was. The industry and technology has simply changed too much, as has the mindset of newer younger fans. Porn, legal and illegal, is abundant online and much more varied than the old model. I think some companies like Digital Playground and Wicked will continue to follow that path, but I doubt we'll really see it many other places. Well I do think a new upstart company could find some early success with it, if they found the right girls (hot, sexual, and has screen presence) and could control at least some content. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:42AM Aplus wrote: ... The risk/reward just doesn't appear to be what it once was. Click to expand Really? Why is that? Aplus wrote: ... The industry and technology has simply changed too much, as has the mindset of newer younger fans. Click to expand The "mindset of newer younger fans" is to steal the content, rather than pay for it. This will drive change in the industry, for the worse, one way or another. [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:50AM Yes, for the time being there is still a good amount of new material being produced. That's only because laser disk sales are still providing some revenue to the studios. Click to expand I don't know if you are aware but studios I mentioned are internet studios first and dvd provider second and that hasn't stopped them from releasing new content every week. I'd even add that Kink is mostly all internet and they are still doing quite well but their content is very specific and their business plan better than others. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:16PM pat362 wrote: I don't know if you are aware but studios I mentioned are internet studios first and dvd provider second and that hasn't stopped them from releasing new content every week. I'd even add that Kink is mostly all internet and they are still doing quite well but their content is very specific and their business plan better than others. Click to expand pat362: How do you know that this "Kink" company is "still doing quite well"? If you've found a single industry insider on this forum who is making the level of profits that they feel constitutes doing well in the last two years, I'd like to read their post. Also, what makes you think that "their business plan [is] better than others"? [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:26PM ^Simple. They hire many new and established performers. They shoot porn on a regular basis. They get these performers to do more hardcore porn then some have done in the past. They update all their sites with one new scene per week and they also have live videos each day. Edited by - pat362 on 4/19/2012 12:30:08 PM [Link]
bissy Senior Member Nikki Sexx is superhot !!!! 7066 Posts 12/09	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 2:05PM I agree with the topic....having contract girls could help the industry.... [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 4:19PM pat362 wrote: ^Simple. They hire many new and established performers. They shoot porn on a regular basis. They get these performers to do more hardcore porn then some have done in the past. They update all their sites with one new scene per week and they also have live videos each day. Click to expand pat362: Based on your response, I'd assume that you don't have contact with any insiders at this company and you don't have access to this company's P/L statements. If this is the case, you don't know if they're doing "quite well". There are top studios right now, like Zero Tolerance Entertainment, who were doing "quite well" before online piracy of their content, and are not doing "quite [so] well" now, based on insider testimony you can read on this forum site. Even so, this studio is still using "many new and established performers" and they "shoot porn on a regular basis". However, if this "Kink" site you mention is offering "live videos each day", then this may be getting closer to what I've been discussing in this topic. This is an example of delivering something to the porn fans that can't be stolen, in this case a live experience. (Although a copy of it could be ripped off later, I imagine.) If this live experience also includes a way for the audience to interact with the talent, as I've noticed some other sites are offering now, that makes the experience even more impossible to steal. This is what I'm getting at. The industry studios must offer unique and exclusive experiences to the porn fans to remain relevant. I've framed this concept around studio contracts, because if porn fans can only get close to their beloved porn stars through a legitimate customer relationship with the studio who manages them exclusively, and who owns the stars' porn screen names, the studio then has a means to leverage their business relationship with the talent to their advantage. I suspect that this will be critical in the future, when the value of porn content on its own may be virtually nothing. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/19/2012 4:28:10 PM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:56PM ^I wouldn't pick ZT or any other studio that was mostly dvd for reference because they were the first ones to be affected by all the tube and torrent sites because their cost of production was and still is significanlty greater than those shooting intenet content. No I don't have any contact in the industry but I use the simple rule that any company still shooting porn on a regular basis must be making money or they would be like all the other dead studios. I will also add that my claim that Kink is doing quite well is based on the many conversations I've had on different forums and the general consensus is that their content is superior to many other studios and the forums I'm talking about are not those of freeloaders but of paying members. Of course I think Kink does have a kind of contract system but it's more in the directors rather than performers category. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 10:31PM pat362 wrote: ^I wouldn't pick ZT or any other studio that was mostly dvd for reference because they were the first ones to be affected by all the tube and torrent sites because their cost of production was and still is significanlty greater than those shooting intenet content. ... Click to expand That makes sense. pat362 wrote: ... No I don't have any contact in the industry but I use the simple rule that any company still shooting porn on a regular basis must be making money or they would be like all the other dead studios. ... Click to expand That's a logical assumption. However, we don't know what their margins are. For all we know, it may barley be worth it for the owners to keep the operation going. I checked out the Kink website and verified that they do offer live shows where the viewer can interact with the talent. That's something that gives them an edge for sure, as it's an experience that cannot be pirated. If their talent were under an exclusive contract with this studio, it would make the experience even more valuable, because porn viewers wouldn't be able to have this type of experience with these performers anywhere else. This is assuming, of course, that the porn viewers value the talent in the presentation. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/19/2012 10:32:38 PM [Link]

zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 11:42PM Contract girls are not popular anymore. Lot of female performers don't even want to be contract girls anymore because then they can work for whoever they want and put up their own websites and sell their own content. A popular independent could probably do better than a contract girl even though she may generate less revenue because that revenue will be split between a LOT less people and she will get the lion's share of the profits herself. Imagine how much cost overhead a big company like Wicked or Vivid has to pay for. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 11:51PM zambi: It's certainly a reasonable assumption that the current porn stars in the industry won't want to work under an exclusive studio contract. However, these girls were propelled to porn stardom by a previously healthy porn industry that was selling DVDs left and right. That has been changing over the last couple of years. New girls who are just off the bus may take an interest in a reasonable offer to sign a studio contract. Also, if Wicked or Vivid has high cost overhead, it may be due to the fact that they are feature film companies. As such, they should have higher costs for sets and production. I doubt that it's related to the fact that they use contract girls. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 12:55:59 AM [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 1:02AM raincoater-smutster wrote: Really? Why is that? The "mindset of newer younger fans" is to steal the content, rather than pay for it. This will drive change in the industry, for the worse, one way or another. Click to expand Simple, it's kind of hard to make money when somebody else is out there giving your new films away for free. Again, unless you can control your content, or produce something not immediately worth stealing, I think you'll be fighting a losing battle. I mean there used to be way more featured contract players than there is today. I don't think companies stopped using them because they wanted to. Some went out-of-business, or simply dropped them to (probably?) save money. I think the idea is still sound, but just think the changing times make it even harder to succeed. I can't tell how much porn is still being produced regularly on film anymore. Feels like I'm seeing more compilatons being dropped than original content in a lot of places. Add California's new regulations towards condom useage and testing, and I'm even sure how much filming is still being done there. Best I can tell though, new starlets are still coming out the woodwork, making it tough for anyone to really stand-out anymore. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 1:19AM Aplus wrote: ... Feels like I'm seeing more compilatons being dropped than original content in a lot of places ... Click to expand Yes, that's because producing new content isn't a very profitable venture anymore, because of piracy and just the glut of content on the web. That's why studios need another product to sell. I'm proposing that this product may be exclusive access to contract studio stars via autographed memorabilia, exclusive web chats, strip club tours, and porn screen name licensing to escort services. Aplus wrote: ... Best I can tell though, new starlets are still coming out the woodwork, making it tough for anyone to really stand-out anymore. Click to expand That's a very good point. If studios are interested in producing contract stars that they can market in ways other than porn content, they will have to concentrate on making them unique performers and personalities. They have to be more than good at performing sex acts on camera. They're going to need character, as well. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 1:22:10 AM [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 2:27AM Again, I think it can be done. But of all the contract stars that dropped within like the last 10 years, I can only maybe think of a handful that really stood out to me. I think it's a guessing game, at best, anyway. Not sure they have cable/satellite tv around to make up the difference anymore either. The stuff you mentioned doesn't seem like enough to offset costs. Some appear to add more, and contract stars usually commanded six figures by themselves. Add travel costs offset by too few films, and I really don't know. [Link]
InFamous Deactivated User 1051 Posts 2/12	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 7:29AM I think this ideal is stupid, there are girls who are doing better without been on contract btw. It will make it ever worst but not better, I say porn is better off without the contract girls. [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:27AM Aplus wrote: ... The stuff you mentioned doesn't seem like enough to offset costs. ... Click to expand You may be right about that. That's why I was hoping that someone from the industry would comment on this topic. Aplus wrote: ... and contract stars usually commanded six figures by themselves ... Click to expand Independent girls make six figures, as well. This shouldn't be a factor. Aplus wrote: ... Add travel costs offset by too few films ... Click to expand There may have to be fewer films with contract girls, due to tours of strip clubs and other events. However, I suspect that there's going to be fewer adult films produced in the future anyway, due to the tremendous amount of material that's already out there on the web. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 10:28:33 AM [Link]
raincoater-smutster Member 42 Posts 3/11	Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:33AM InFamous wrote: I think this ideal is stupid ... Click to expand InFamous: The word "stupid", when describing a person, is to say that one is "obtuse". This means that the person is "lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect". Perhaps you should reflect on this. Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 10:34:48 AM [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 6:32PM raincoater-smutster wrote: zambi: It's certainly a reasonable assumption that the current porn stars in the industry won't want to work under an exclusive studio contract. However, these girls were propelled to porn stardom by a previously healthy porn industry that was selling DVDs left and right. That has been changing over the last couple of years. New girls who are just off the bus may take an interest in a reasonable offer to sign a studio contract. Also, if Wicked or Vivid has high cost overhead, it may be due to the fact that they are feature film companies. As such, they should have higher costs for sets and production. I doubt that it's related to the fact that they use contract girls. Click to expand Back in the 90s girls wanted to become contract girls primarily to be get more exposure so they could become feature dancers. Once you became popular enough you didn't have to do porn anymore you could just make money feature dancing and occassionally return a do a couple movies. If you were a contract girl the company would spend significant time and money to market you and get your name out there and become known. As the internet became more pervasive women realized they no longer needed to become contract girls and could market themselves. Also the number of companies producing porn exploded offering them much more opportunities to work. Even better they could create their own websites and produce their own content. Regarding cost, of course Vivid and Wicked spend lot of money on production cost. But cost to support contract girls is not cheap either. It's not just the cost of the salary paid to the star. If you are locking a girl into a contract its because you are also spending a ton of money marketing them. The contract is there to prevent them from working for somebody else or leaving and thus making your huge investment in them a waste. So its not just the contract salary its all the marketing and advertising cost that goes with it to market that girl. [Link]
MaxxxModels New Member 2 Posts 4/15	Posted - Apr 30 2015 : 5:49PM Sorry to revive a dead horse but I'm a little bit surprised to see the OP discussing escorting services as a legal business where large companies can make money and maintain their legitimacy. I know that most adult actresses are also involved in escorting and that escorting is probably a much bigger payoff than making movies but ... seriously? Licensing a porn stars name to an escort agency? This would never fly in the US, and that's where most of the money is. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Apr 30 2015 : 8:14PM That is a long post but it touched on a important point. Like I said in the Bangbros thread 'who is the top star now' the industry has lost a crucial component by not having star power like it did in the past. Also like I have stated numerous times women of color who look really good in their scenes like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir and some Black males could be the x factor. [Link]
zambi Senior Member 1451 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 1 2015 : 1:06PM No!!! Contract girls are not the way to go. In fact Vivid dumped their contract girl business model and nowadays tries to produce more celebrity sex tapes (e.g. girls from Teen Mom and Love and Hip Hop). They make a LOT more money from celeb sex tapes. Vivid originally made a ton of money by licensing their content to hotels and cable TV during the 90s and those distributors preferred pretty white girls doing vanilla sex scenes (i.e. no IR, no anal, no facials, nothing extreme) to avoid legal hassles and protest especially in the conservative and racist southern markets. But since then porn production and distribution has exploded especially with the internet and mobile devices. So the old "contract girl" business strategy has become obsolete. Instead the gonzo and Speigler girl business models took over where "scenes" not movies are produced and sold online and new girls coming out the box performing anal, IR, facials, gangbangs, and so on right away. [Link]
vimesk Member 177 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 1 2015 : 3:27PM One reason also to why there arn't any more contract girls is that before Manwin/mindgeek bought brazzers/digital playground and the web service to wicked, there where 3 seperate huge companies in vivid, digital playground and wicked and they needed to feature their own girls so they wouldn't work for their competitors. But now you see companies only hire 1 contract girl for on short term contracts for like a 1 year, like you see with jesse jane with jules jordan and nicole aniston with naughty america. But the problem in the porn biz isn't piracy which is a huge problem, but also the lack of competion when you have one company owning the major porn brands [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - May 1 2015 : 4:34PM The industry doesn't need contract girls so much as star power. Contact girls use to be stars but now the industry is a flesh market with no star quality. The good ol days of stars like Sasha Grey, Alexis Texas, Marie Luv, Jenna Jameson, Priva are gone. The new era of porn has to address that but also give the fans what they want. [Link]
JigglyBoobs Senior Member 1614 Posts 3/12	Posted - May 1 2015 : 5:50PM ^^ I don't think those are the only problems. There's a lot of mass produced stuff with poor production value so people may not feel inclined to pay for it, not that I condone or defend that "justification". With regard to the original question, I personally feel contract girls can be detrimental to the industry. If an actress I was very fond of signed up to Studio X whose work I didn't care for, I'm not going to suddenly pay for a subscription to Studio X's site or buy the DVD's she stars in by Studio X. I would just turn my attention to actresses who aren't contracted to Studio X. Naturally, it cuts both ways as that same actress could sign up to Studio Y whose work I like very much. That being said, most of the studios that sign actresses on contracts are those I'm not keen on. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - May 1 2015 : 6:05PM There are a lot of problems with porn now but lack of star quality actresses is one, production is another. A good deal of it is lack of imagination. Some new sites seem to have it right. Those of you who like variety might want to check out the hotness who is Jade Aspen at Jade Aspen [Link]

Author

Post

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:43AM

I'm curious if the industry thinks that increasing the number of contract girls may help them get through this tough period of uncertainty, while we wait for Congress to finish their debate over the latest anti-piracy legislation (which may be a very long wait).  What I'm wondering is whether contracts can be authored and agreed to, whereby the girls agree to only perform strip club tours and work as escorts under a financial agreement with the studios.  In this manner, the porn industry will continue to find and create the starlets of the future, and then reap financial rewards from the starlets as they interact with their fans through strip shows and escorting arrangements.
Up to this point, it seems that most studios have been operating independently of most of the talent's operations.  It appears that the studios hire them temporarily through the agencies, shoot porn, and then market the porn content itself.  Some of the girls make a name for themselves in the process, and then go off on their own to make financial windfalls touring as strippers and/or working as escorts.  The problem the industry faces now is that due to piracy, the value of new porn content is low.  This value is likely to remain low or even become lower in the future if no legislative relief is received from Congress to thwart the stealing habits of the Napster Generation (Generation Y).
Perhaps the adult film studios can begin identifying young talent that they believe have the potential to develop a fan following and become starlets that are in demand with strip clubs and escort services.  Then, conceivably the studios can negotiate with these potential future starlets for exclusive contracts that pass ownership of the starlet’s screen name to the studios.  At this point, the agreements would stipulate that the talent cannot market themselves outside the studio's operations by their screen name.  The agreement should also stipulate that the starlets cannot autograph memorabilia without the studio's express written consent.
If the studios had ownership of the starlets' industry screen names, once some of the girls rise to the top to become popular with fans, the studios should be able to negotiate with other types of adult entertainment providers, such as strip clubs and escort services, for royalty payments for their permission to use the starlets' screen names for marketing purposes.  The studios could themselves make arrangements for the girls to go on tours of strip clubs under the studio's contract.  It's been said many times on this site by industry insiders that porn companies cannot promote tours like the music industry does to survive.  As a layman, at the moment, I'm not completely convinced that this isn't possible.
The industry seems to be having a very difficult time adjusting to the challenges of piracy, as well as inexpensive legitimate content on the web, for the time being.  It suggests to me that until we learn what Washington can do for us, (if anything), the porn industry must find marketable commodities other than the content itself.  It must also find ways to increase the value of its content by offering legitimate paying customers something other than the content alone.  For example, porn studios could set up reward points systems for legitimate customers on their websites.  As the legitimate customer racks up points for making purchases, they could perhaps spend those points on such things as autographed memorabilia from the contract girls that studios could have agreements with in the near future, if they work fast now.  Such reward points could also possibly be cashed in by the legitimate customers to pay a cover charge at a strip club in their city that is featuring the studio's talent at the time.  Such "porno points" may also potentially be used as a way for a legitimate customer to reduce an escort agency fee on the booking of a studio contract girl.
The value of porn content itself may be quickly fading away, but the value of the talent themselves to porn fans remains high, and may be rising higher.  You need only read the many posts on this site to see how much the porn fans love their favorite porn starlets.  They pay big money on cover charges to see porn stars dance at strip clubs.  They pay big money to experience a personal encounter with porn stars in the escorting scene.  They also pay big money to fly out to Las Vegas and visit the AEE convention to meet their favorite starlets.  Without a porn industry, there won't be porn stars in the future.  This is something that perhaps the talent agencies and the new girls need to come to grips with.  The luxury of working as an independent girl may have to end for the industry to survive enough to give them a chance to be stars in the future.
I'd be very interested in what industry insiders on this site think of what I've written here.  I'm just a porn fan.  I've been frustrated recently by the reduction in the type of content that I like to view.  I'm not sure if studios increasing the use of exclusive contracts with talent, and then leveraging those agreements can work or not in this industry.  However, this is the best idea that I can come up with.  I hope it starts a new discussion on what the industry can do to survive in an environment where the value of the media they produce is worth so little on its own.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on Apr 17 2012

[Link]

CummingLinguist

All-Star Member

5908 Posts
11/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 12:18PM

^ I never thought it through to the degree that you have, but even when the music industry was throwing fits about Napster, I was thinking "Musicians can make money the way they always have, through live performances. Recorded music can serve them as a form of advertising." So I am sympathetic to your approach.
I'm not in the industry, though, so my opinion doesn't matter.

[Link]

David Cop-a-feel
Deactivated User

Trust me, honey, it gets better
323 Posts
10/10

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 6:16PM

So are you advocating porn studios become pimps for the talent's escorting activities?

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 6:54PM

No, not exactly. However, I'm wondering whether it makes sense for the porn studios to license the rights to use the porn stars' names to escorting agencies, as well as strip clubs. The studios need to own those names first, of course. It may be easier for the porn studios to have more direct involvement with strip club tours rather than escorting arrangements.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 6:55:20 PM

[Link]

Rosco Fuji
Deactivated User

On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick!
3309 Posts
2/09

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 7:40PM

Well, it'd make sense for a studio or an agent to "bundle" all their stars into a package and send them out on tour. I personally wouldn't drive more than 10 miles to see one star feature dance, but throw together a quartet of say; Andy San Dimas, Katie St. Ives, Lexi Belle, and Marie McCray, into one feature show and I'd drive an hour to see it.

[Link]

twohands0215
Member

My first favorite Pornstar and the begining of my anal fetish
28 Posts
4/12

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 8:36PM

One can't fight the internet and win. Every industry subject to online piracy has had to adapt their methods of providing content to consumers to either discourage piracy or provide content by a method cheap and fast enough that most folks do not bother with trying to pirate it.
The porn industry will be no different. Their best bet is to make releases first available only online with instant streaming and no downloads before making downloads or DVDs available. Once a digital copy get in the hands of the public its over. Then again that's only until pirates develop a way, if there isn't one already, to capture or records streams. Like I said you can't fight the internet and win.
That is until the government employs some draconian enforcement of the internet in the name of stopping piracy. And then the pirates and hackers figures our how to get around those as well. And then the Government get's even more strict. Rinse and repeat until we live under complete tyranny on and off the internet.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 8:51PM

twohands0215:
This topic is specifically about whether or not exclusive contracts with porn talent and reward points systems can help the industry survive. Could we stay on topic here please?

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 8:56:57 PM

[Link]

Dread
Senior Member

Latex and boobs
5085 Posts
3/07

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:36PM

well if the contract starts don't SHOOT, which most of them don't outside of like 5 movies, how is that saving the industry?
----Dread----

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:44PM

DreadSynapse:
I'm not sure if it's true that contract stars don't shoot many movies. There are contract girls at Digital Playground that are cast in new movies fairly often. At any rate, my original post is asking whether or not attempting to monetize the relationship between porn fans and porn stars can be accomplished by the studios, in lieu of the fact that new porn content is likely to be worth very little in the marketplace in the future.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/17/2012 11:46:45 PM

[Link]

alucard365
Member

You may be a lover but you ain't no dancer
556 Posts
1/12

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:47PM

Contracts are so dated, I can't believe their still going on today.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 11:51PM

alucard365:
It's true that contracts haven't been utilized by studios as much in recent years. However, my original post is asking the question of whether or not they should be brought back as exclusive marketing agreements to provide the porn studios with another form of revenue that they will likely need in the future to stay in business in this environment.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 12:34:35 AM

[Link]

InFamous
Deactivated User

1051 Posts
2/12

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:00AM

^
I say no more contract girls stuff, you want girls to work with all types of companies as much as they can. Also to do acts like Anal, IR, DP, Gangbangs and other acts if they choose to that Digital Playground or Wicked won't do. It will hurt the fans of those performer who enjoy watching them for there favorite companies. The days of the contract girls are gone but you still have Digital Playground or Wicked with there boring movies.
Edited by - Infamous on 4/18/2012 1:02:53 AM

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:05AM

InFamous:
I didn't start this topic to ask what fans would like to see. I started this topic to inquire if using exclusive marketing arrangements would help the industry stay afloat in these uncertain times. It really won't matter whether or not fans want to see different girls all the time in studio lines if the studios can't stay in business.
Also, I don't see the relation between contract status and sex acts that talent is willing to perform. One should have nothing to do with the other.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 1:34:33 AM

[Link]

katie_St_Ives
Member

One and only #PenisPixie
285 Posts
9/09

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 5:27AM

I totally agree :)

[Link]

InFamous
Deactivated User

1051 Posts
2/12

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 8:03AM

I don't agree with you on this one, it's just a bad ideal.

[Link]

pornlaw
Member

578 Posts
10/05

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:42AM

The days of "porn videos" are coming to an end. Even those on the internet...
The industry has to be redefined as the "sex industry" and not just the porn industry.
Cam sites are making more than the video companies ever could. Guys will always need to masturbate (as do women) the only difference is that now the younger generation does it to a live model and not a video. Online dating, social media and PUA have changed the way women and men interact in person and in general.
As technology advances, online virtual sex will become more of a reality. AEBN has just released their Real Touch device for cams. Why will guys watch a video and masturbate when then will be able to get a real live model to do it for them for $50 ?
Virtual prostitution will be the next 5-10 yrs of this industry. Its a natural evolution of the business. I am not making any judgment calls about morality or legality but that seems to be where its going...

[Link]

aclayfan

All-Star Member

5059 Posts
8/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:47AM

Well, plenty of thought went into this presentation on how to increase income for the industry's companies. It isn't well received here because the fans {consumers} can't see anything in it for them except increased lame contract porn. You see no connection between content and contract status, but history tells us differently. You're right the porn business model is fractured, but such a structured solution seems fanciful in the internet world. It's far more likely the contract system of Vivid, DP, etc. is headed for oblivion.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:01AM

That is the reality for almost all the contract stars and I'd add that those movies don't necessarily get released in the same year that they were produced. Here's a list of studios whom I know still have contract stars: Digital Playground, Vivid, Wicked and Girlfriend Films. I may have forgotten some but these are the probably the biggest studios anyway. Just look at their contract stars and then look at which titles were released during one year.
The reasons why a contract is a great thing today is that the performer doesn't have to shoot a lot and still makes a decent salary. They don't have to pay an agent who finds them jobs. They have a studio to promote her and gets her some strip club bookings as well. The only downside is that most performers can't shoot for other studios but that's rarely a problem for them.
I still think that it's possible to make a very decent living without a contract but you may have to do certain things that contract stars don't necessarily have to do like anal, IR, DP's, BSDM and so on. Of course the most important thing for non-contract performers is their agent. Just take a look at the performers Mark Spiegler handles and you'll see that each of them gets plenty of work and that's without a contract. Of course Mark is in a class all of his own.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:32AM

aclayfan:
It's true that up to this point, the studios interested in hiring contract girls have been the feature-oriented studios. Gonzo studios have been interested in using talent agencies because gonzo fans have an appetite to see different girls in the various volumes of gonzo series all the time. However, this doesn't mean that the gonzo studios can't adjust to using exclusive marketing agreements with gonzo porn girls that they value. The content doesn't need to change, only the legal agreements. Certain sacrifices will need to be made by the gonzo studios and the gonzo porn fans alike. The gonzo fans are already making sacrifices in terms of content because the studios can't currently afford to shoot the type of content that these fans want. This will only get worse if the studios don't come up with a different business model soon.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 10:38:59 AM

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 10:47AM

pat362:
It won't be possible for independent girls to "make a very decent living" in the future when non-contract gonzo porn studios can't afford to continue to finance the "IR, DP's, BSDM and so on" that you like to view when their content isn't worth a nickel on the street. The gonzo girls are already getting less work because of a reduction in the amount of content produced. Many of them won't be getting plenty of work in the future no matter who their agent is.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 10:51:42 AM

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 1:57PM

^Actually there are still plenty of studios shooting BSDM and gonzo stuff on a regular basis. Brazzer, Reality king, BangBros, Dogfart, Mofos, Porn Fidelity, Teen Fidelity, Society S&M and all the Kink sites to name a few. The studios that shoot the least amount of porn are the contract studios because they can't afford those contracts.

[Link]

InFamous
Deactivated User

1051 Posts
2/12

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:06PM

^
I say that it will hurt most of the studios who shoot the different content that the fans enjoy watching. They want to see the girls in those companies that make the different content they shoot for. It will also hurt the black performers (male and female) who don't get to shoot for some companies that don't do IR. It's just a bad ideal. I do agree with pat362 the industry doesn't need more no contract girls.
Edited by - InFamous on 4/18/2012 2:10:53 PM

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:11PM

pat362:
Yes, for the time being there is still a good amount of new material being produced. That's only because laser disk sales are still providing some revenue to the studios. However, most studio insiders will tell you that they're not doing much better than breaking even right now, due to the reduced laser disk sales and availability of pirated and/or cheap legitimate content on the web. It won't be long before the primary cohort of porn viewers are those from the Napster Generation. I don't see them buying laser disks in any significant numbers at all.
I'd suspect that the contract studios of today shoot the least amount of porn because they're focused on producing features. These are bigger-budget X-rated films for mass consumption. I'd imagine that these projects take much longer to plan and implement.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 2:21:21 PM

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 2:18PM

InFamous:
You seem to be associating the idea of an exclusive studio contract with talent with the feature-oriented productions of companies like Digital Playground. These are two separate concepts. Just because the contract girls of today can only be found in feature-oriented X-rated films at the moment doesn't necessarily mean that contract girls couldn't work exclusively for gonzo companies and continue to perform the same gonzo-style sex acts that you prefer.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 2:26:20 PM

[Link]

twohands0215
Member

My first favorite Pornstar and the begining of my anal fetish
28 Posts
4/12

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 8:23PM

Whould your suggestion have popularity, sure. WOuld it save the industry? The answer is I doubt it. My post did address what the industry has to do to survive which hardly seems off topic, but way to be an a-hole.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 9:48PM

twohands0215:
The topic title is "Can Contract Girls Save the Industry?". The word "contract" doesn't appear anywhere in your first three-paragraph post. Nor does this first post of yours discuss anything relating to exclusive agreements with talent.
My intention was to respectfully keep the discussion on this topic to that of contracts with talent. I'm not sure why you're seemingly taking offense to my reply. At present, I don't feel that I owe you an apology.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/18/2012 9:50:11 PM

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 4:59AM

No I don't really think so. Porn companies have moved away from contracts the last few years. The risk/reward just doesn't appear to be what it once was. The industry and technology has simply changed too much, as has the mindset of newer younger fans. Porn, legal and illegal, is abundant online and much more varied than the old model. I think some companies like Digital Playground and Wicked will continue to follow that path, but I doubt we'll really see it many other places. Well I do think a new upstart company could find some early success with it, if they found the right girls (hot, sexual, and has screen presence) and could control at least some content.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:42AM

Really? Why is that?

The "mindset of newer younger fans" is to steal the content, rather than pay for it. This will drive change in the industry, for the worse, one way or another.

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:50AM

I don't know if you are aware but studios I mentioned are internet studios first and dvd provider second and that hasn't stopped them from releasing new content every week. I'd even add that Kink is mostly all internet and they are still doing quite well but their content is very specific and their business plan better than others.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:16PM

pat362:
How do you know that this "Kink" company is "still doing quite well"? If you've found a single industry insider on this forum who is making the level of profits that they feel constitutes doing well in the last two years, I'd like to read their post. Also, what makes you think that "their business plan [is] better than others"?

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:26PM

^Simple. They hire many new and established performers. They shoot porn on a regular basis. They get these performers to do more hardcore porn then some have done in the past. They update all their sites with one new scene per week and they also have live videos each day.
Edited by - pat362 on 4/19/2012 12:30:08 PM

[Link]

bissy
Senior Member

Nikki Sexx is superhot !!!!
7066 Posts
12/09

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 2:05PM

I agree with the topic....having contract girls could help the industry....

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 4:19PM

pat362:
Based on your response, I'd assume that you don't have contact with any insiders at this company and you don't have access to this company's P/L statements.  If this is the case, you don't know if they're doing "quite well".  There are top studios right now, like Zero Tolerance Entertainment, who were doing "quite well" before online piracy of their content, and are not doing "quite [so] well" now, based on insider testimony you can read on this forum site.  Even so, this studio is still using "many new and established performers" and they "shoot porn on a regular basis".
However, if this "Kink" site you mention is offering "live videos each day", then this may be getting closer to what I've been discussing in this topic.  This is an example of delivering something to the porn fans that can't be stolen, in this case a live experience.  (Although a copy of it could be ripped off later, I imagine.)  If this live experience also includes a way for the audience to interact with the talent, as I've noticed some other sites are offering now, that makes the experience even more impossible to steal.
This is what I'm getting at.  The industry studios must offer unique and exclusive experiences to the porn fans to remain relevant.  I've framed this concept around studio contracts, because if porn fans can only get close to their beloved porn stars through a legitimate customer relationship with the studio who manages them exclusively, and who owns the stars' porn screen names, the studio then has a means to leverage their business relationship with the talent to their advantage.  I suspect that this will be critical in the future, when the value of porn content on its own may be virtually nothing.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/19/2012 4:28:10 PM

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 9:56PM

^I wouldn't pick ZT or any other studio that was mostly dvd for reference because they were the first ones to be affected by all the tube and torrent sites because their cost of production was and still is significanlty greater than those shooting intenet content.
No I don't have any contact in the industry but I use the simple rule that any company still shooting porn on a regular basis must be making money or they would be like all the other dead studios. I will also add that my claim that Kink is doing quite well is based on the many conversations I've had on different forums and the general consensus is that their content is superior to many other studios and the forums I'm talking about are not those of freeloaders but of paying members. Of course I think Kink does have a kind of contract system but it's more in the directors rather than performers category.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 10:31PM

That makes sense.

That's a logical assumption. However, we don't know what their margins are. For all we know, it may barley be worth it for the owners to keep the operation going.
I checked out the Kink website and verified that they do offer live shows where the viewer can interact with the talent. That's something that gives them an edge for sure, as it's an experience that cannot be pirated. If their talent were under an exclusive contract with this studio, it would make the experience even more valuable, because porn viewers wouldn't be able to have this type of experience with these performers anywhere else. This is assuming, of course, that the porn viewers value the talent in the presentation.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/19/2012 10:32:38 PM

[Link]

zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 11:42PM

Contract girls are not popular anymore. Lot of female performers don't even
want to be contract girls anymore because then they can work for whoever they
want and put up their own websites and sell their own content. A popular
independent could probably do better than a contract girl even though she
may generate less revenue because that revenue will be split between a LOT
less people and she will get the lion's share of the profits herself. Imagine
how much cost overhead a big company like Wicked or Vivid has to pay for.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 11:51PM

zambi:
It's certainly a reasonable assumption that the current porn stars in the industry won't want to work under an exclusive studio contract. However, these girls were propelled to porn stardom by a previously healthy porn industry that was selling DVDs left and right. That has been changing over the last couple of years. New girls who are just off the bus may take an interest in a reasonable offer to sign a studio contract.
Also, if Wicked or Vivid has high cost overhead, it may be due to the fact that they are feature film companies. As such, they should have higher costs for sets and production. I doubt that it's related to the fact that they use contract girls.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 12:55:59 AM

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 1:02AM

Simple, it's kind of hard to make money when somebody else is out there giving your new films away for free. Again, unless you can control your content, or produce something not immediately worth stealing, I think you'll be fighting a losing battle. I mean there used to be way more featured contract players than there is today. I don't think companies stopped using them because they wanted to. Some went out-of-business, or simply dropped them to (probably?) save money.
I think the idea is still sound, but just think the changing times make it even harder to succeed. I can't tell how much porn is still being produced regularly on film anymore. Feels like I'm seeing more compilatons being dropped than original content in a lot of places. Add California's new regulations towards condom useage and testing, and I'm even sure how much filming is still being done there. Best I can tell though, new starlets are still coming out the woodwork, making it tough for anyone to really stand-out anymore.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 1:19AM

Yes, that's because producing new content isn't a very profitable venture anymore, because of piracy and just the glut of content on the web. That's why studios need another product to sell. I'm proposing that this product may be exclusive access to contract studio stars via autographed memorabilia, exclusive web chats, strip club tours, and porn screen name licensing to escort services.

That's a very good point. If studios are interested in producing contract stars that they can market in ways other than porn content, they will have to concentrate on making them unique performers and personalities. They have to be more than good at performing sex acts on camera. They're going to need character, as well.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 1:22:10 AM

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 2:27AM

Again, I think it can be done. But of all the contract stars that dropped within like the last 10 years, I can only maybe think of a handful that really stood out to me. I think it's a guessing game, at best, anyway. Not sure they have cable/satellite tv around to make up the difference anymore either. The stuff you mentioned doesn't seem like enough to offset costs. Some appear to add more, and contract stars usually commanded six figures by themselves. Add travel costs offset by too few films, and I really don't know.

[Link]

InFamous
Deactivated User

1051 Posts
2/12

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 7:29AM

I think this ideal is stupid, there are girls who are doing better without been on contract btw. It will make it ever worst but not better, I say porn is better off without the contract girls.

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:27AM

You may be right about that. That's why I was hoping that someone from the industry would comment on this topic.

Independent girls make six figures, as well. This shouldn't be a factor.

There may have to be fewer films with contract girls, due to tours of strip clubs and other events. However, I suspect that there's going to be fewer adult films produced in the future anyway, due to the tremendous amount of material that's already out there on the web.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 10:28:33 AM

[Link]

raincoater-smutster
Member

42 Posts
3/11

Posted - Apr 20 2012 : 10:33AM

InFamous:
The word "stupid", when describing a person, is to say that one is "obtuse". This means that the person is "lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect". Perhaps you should reflect on this.

Edited by - raincoater-smutster on 4/20/2012 10:34:48 AM

[Link]

zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 21 2012 : 6:32PM

Back in the 90s girls wanted to become contract girls primarily to be get more
exposure so they could become feature dancers. Once you became popular enough
you didn't have to do porn anymore you could just make money feature dancing
and occassionally return a do a couple movies. If you were a contract girl the
company would spend significant time and money to market you and get your name
out there and become known. As the internet became more pervasive women realized
they no longer needed to become contract girls and could market themselves.
Also the number of companies producing porn exploded offering them much more
opportunities to work. Even better they could create their own websites and
produce their own content.
Regarding cost, of course Vivid and Wicked spend lot of money on production
cost. But cost to support contract girls is not cheap either. It's not just the
cost of the salary paid to the star. If you are locking a girl into a contract
its because you are also spending a ton of money marketing them. The contract
is there to prevent them from working for somebody else or leaving and thus
making your huge investment in them a waste. So its not just the contract
salary its all the marketing and advertising cost that goes with it to market
that girl.

[Link]

MaxxxModels
New Member

2 Posts
4/15

Posted - Apr 30 2015 : 5:49PM

Sorry to revive a dead horse but I'm a little bit surprised to see the OP discussing escorting services as a legal business where large companies can make money and maintain their legitimacy.
I know that most adult actresses are also involved in escorting and that escorting is probably a much bigger payoff than making movies but ... seriously? Licensing a porn stars name to an escort agency? This would never fly in the US, and that's where most of the money is.

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Apr 30 2015 : 8:14PM

That is a long post but it touched on a important point. Like I said in the Bangbros thread 'who is the top star now' the industry has lost a crucial component by not having star power like it did in the past. Also like I have stated numerous times women of color who look really good in their scenes like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir and some Black males could be the x factor.

[Link]

zambi
Senior Member

1451 Posts
3/10

Posted - May 1 2015 : 1:06PM

No!!! Contract girls are not the way to go. In fact Vivid dumped their contract girl business model and nowadays tries to produce more celebrity sex tapes (e.g. girls from Teen Mom and Love and Hip Hop). They make a LOT more money from celeb sex tapes. Vivid originally made a ton of money by licensing their content to hotels and cable TV during the 90s and those distributors preferred pretty white girls doing vanilla sex scenes (i.e. no IR, no anal, no facials, nothing extreme) to avoid legal hassles and protest especially in the conservative and racist southern markets. But since then porn production and distribution has exploded especially with the internet and mobile devices. So the old "contract girl" business strategy has become obsolete. Instead the gonzo and Speigler girl business models took over where "scenes" not movies are produced and sold online and new girls coming out the box performing anal, IR, facials, gangbangs, and so on right away.

[Link]

vimesk
Member

177 Posts
4/14

Posted - May 1 2015 : 3:27PM

One reason also to why there arn't any more contract girls is that before Manwin/mindgeek bought brazzers/digital playground and the web service to wicked, there where 3 seperate huge companies in vivid, digital playground and wicked and they needed to feature their own girls so they wouldn't work for their competitors.
But now you see companies only hire 1 contract girl for on short term contracts for like a 1 year, like you see with jesse jane with jules jordan and nicole aniston with naughty america.
But the problem in the porn biz isn't piracy which is a huge problem, but also the lack of competion when you have one company owning the major porn brands

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - May 1 2015 : 4:34PM

The industry doesn't need contract girls so much as star power. Contact girls use to be stars but now the industry is a flesh market with no star quality. The good ol days of stars like Sasha Grey, Alexis Texas, Marie Luv, Jenna Jameson, Priva are gone. The new era of porn has to address that but also give the fans what they want.

[Link]

JigglyBoobs
Senior Member

1614 Posts
3/12

Posted - May 1 2015 : 5:50PM

^^ I don't think those are the only problems. There's a lot of mass produced stuff with poor production value so people may not feel inclined to pay for it, not that I condone or defend that "justification".
With regard to the original question, I personally feel contract girls can be detrimental to the industry. If an actress I was very fond of signed up to Studio X whose work I didn't care for, I'm not going to suddenly pay for a subscription to Studio X's site or buy the DVD's she stars in by Studio X. I would just turn my attention to actresses who aren't contracted to Studio X. Naturally, it cuts both ways as that same actress could sign up to Studio Y whose work I like very much. That being said, most of the studios that sign actresses on contracts are those I'm not keen on.

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - May 1 2015 : 6:05PM

There are a lot of problems with porn now but lack of star quality actresses is one, production is another. A good deal of it is lack of imagination. Some new sites seem to have it right. Those of you who like variety might want to check out the hotness who is Jade Aspen at
Jade Aspen

[Link]