When I came back to the adult business in 1999, I promised myself that I would never willingly or knowingly contribute to risking someone else's health. I also promised myself that I would use my own situtation of being infected on a set to try to help other performers never have to experience that.

Between 1997 and 2005, the only male to female transmissions of HIV were ALL caused in scenes that involved an anal internal cumshot. Kimberly Jade, Brooke Ashley, Delphin, me, Lara Roxxx, Jessica Dee and Miss Arroyo all received an anal creampie from the male performer who was part of that year's HIV scare. For the first 4 girls, it was Marc Wallace. For the last 3, it was Darren James.

Going by that, I to this day find it nearly impossible that any self-respecting porn producers would still find it within their comfort level to shoot internal anals. I do know that for awhile, Red Light was having their performers test for HIV every 2 weeks instead of every 30 days. I don't know if they continue this. If they do, I applaud them, but I don't know if even this balances out the extra risky sexual act of anal internal cumshots. The reason anal creampies are so dangerous is because the mucous membranes of the anal cavity are very thin and are easily torn during anal sex. If a male performer were HIV+ (and the current testing methods hadn't detected him yet, just as the testing methods didn't detect Darren James early enough to save Lara, Jessica or Miss Arroyo) and he did an anal internal cumshot, his HIV-infected semen would have direct contact with the torn insides of the girl's asshole.

I cannot in good conscience request a government-mandated ban on these activites. I enjoy the adult business very much, and I think government intervention would do more harm than good. However, I know some of the directors who are currently shooting series that have anal creampies, and I know that deep down, they are good people with consciences.
The only thing I am able to do is remain vocal about what we as a community have experienced through the years, and hope that by staying vocal, even if these movies continue to be filmed, that the girls in the business will know the history of HIV in the business, and will be better able to make their own informed decisions.
I was so emotionally sick last year every time I heard a girl say that she thought that the current HIV testing methods were enough and the she didn't know that an anal creampie was more risky than any other sexual act. How is it possible that adult performers do not understand the safety risks involved in their jobs?

If a girl knows the risks, and she wants to do this kind of scene, none of us can do anything else, but at least she knew the risks before it may be too late.

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Every 'pornfan' should realize that it is NOT possible with current standards in porn to shot such acts without an extraordinary health risk for the performer.
As soon as the next health hazard hits everyone is an 'oh so sorry' hypocrite.
Since most producers don't care for anything but the money they can make, I won't feel sorry should they be brought to reason by legislative power.

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HIV can be transmitted by PRE CUM so shouldn't all porn be condom only and dental dams if you were to make an argument?

precum and bodlily fluids

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OK, taking off my mod hat...

Chocolate_cougar, your average viewer supports many entertainment venues which involve risk. What people expect in other arenas is that the risks are managed, and they are; nevertheless, bad things happen. Just today a young man on a professional football team collapsed and died. This will not prevent people from watching football. The death of a very popular race car driver did nothing to diminish support for that sport.

I cite these examples to make it perfectly clear that people are not put off by isolated tragedies. That being the case, isn't it unrealistic to expect fans to react more strongly in the face of what, to date, have been low rates of HIV infection? Certainly some will be very concerned, while others will be totally indifferent, but the majority will simply accept that these things happen and, so long as they remain uncommon and the industry appears to be successful in dealing with the outbreaks that occur, not get too upset about it.

I appreciate your attempt to motivate the fans to be more concerned about high-risk behavior and to force a change on the industry, but you are not reaching a significant portion of the porn-buying public by posting here. I think Tricia has the more effective course of action, which is to speak to the conscience of the producers and to raise the awareness of the performers.

I don't know how it is in Europe, but in the USA producers/directors are a touchy bunch who tend to resist when they feel people are pushing them, irregardless of the right or wrong of the matter. Therefore, I suggest you look to your ultimate goal and consider whether your current approach is an effective one.

They could be, if everyone agrees that HIV infections are a danger that can't be easily
overcome by safety measures, however we all know that is wrong.
Hence those comparisons to risk management in dangerous sport events like car racing fail
in my honest opinion. However you are right about the fact that people usually are not put
off by 'isolated tragedies'.

Tricia believes that most producers she got to know are good people with consciences,
and that being vocal about the dangers of internal cumshots is enough to change things,
I don't think so. A kick in the butt is what most need ;)

Unless there is a government intervention, nobody gives a shit.
The juristic grey zone leaves enough room for unregulated capitalism putting
people at unreasonable risks that would not be tolerated in any other 'regular job'.

In my personal ideal world, everyone who requests it would be allowed to use condoms for
penetration shots without having to fear to be outcast.
I think the risk of 'external cumshots' with tested talent could still be justified,
but doing creampies would be off limits. This vision could be realized by producers
right now (and it is practised sucessfully by same lables, which proofes it to be possible),
if everbody waits for the next STD outbreak and the gov steps in, than it is likely for you
Americans to face something as regulative as these OSHA regs with gloves and googles and no
more cumshots. In that case you brought it onto yourself. Like 'from all to nothing'.

People come to ADT to have a fun time, talk about their favorite girls and barbecues ;),
however in the very moment some laserbrains selfishly request creampies and no condom porn,
debate about free will issues ignoring the common realities in pornworld, while at the same
time saying they care about health issues, I'll rain on their parade.
Same goes for all producers advertising the next creampie line and asking for feedback
in the news section of this message board. It's fans and producers like them who lose any
plausibility when discussing health concerns.

I don't know a better message board that is read by many producers to bring my opinion across.
The 'Hall of Shame' thread was directly connected to those of them who come here for feedback.
A direct attack against what I classify as careless stupid behaviour, putting people at un-
reasonable risks.
If a porn producer can't find a way to make money without risking other peoples health in non
defensible ways, s/he is the one to get another job.

Also some performers post here and a lot may read, it can't hurt to demonstrate the dangers of
such acts repeatedly. The more decide to not do creampie stuff the less it will be common practise,
ultimately the risk of new HIV infections declines, at least that's what I hope.

As for pornfans, a fan posting on boards like ADT is likely to make more impact than the 'regular fan'
who has not that much interest in this industry or the people working there.
when fans get vocal about that they would favor more condom scenes to support performers wishing
to do so, it is a good thing, the more the better.
I am not here to take the mickey out of pornfans. I also like to look at beautiful people,
or give out sexual pleasure, even if watching porn does not do much for me :)

Edited by - chocolate_cougar on 8/22/2005 2:04:53 PM

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After early 1998, the adult business switched from Eliza tests to PCR-DNA tests, and most companies decided to only accept tests from labs they were familiar with. This prevented a few would-be performers from working, who may have otherwise tested negative on the Eliza screener.

After 2004, the industry looked at what happened. Many of us saw a link between the HIV transmissions and anal internals. Some of us decided that we would learn from the situation and not play Russian Roulette with that sex act anymore.
Since the adult business has such a high turnover, I am simply doing everything I can to let the current girls that I come in contact with know the risks of the things that they are asked to do. Once they know the risks, it is their decision to make of whether they want to gamble with this risk.

I work for a fairly hard gonzo company. I LOVE seeing hard sex. But I cannot in good faith NOT help keep the girls informed about how I and several other girls got HIV.

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But I do want to say a few things. I as a performer know the risk of my job. Which I am sorry to say a lot of girls in this industry do not. I realize that any type of internal cum shot puts me at more of a risk and that is a risk I am sorry to say I am not willing to take. Yes, I love my job but I love my family and life more. So don't plan on seeing internals from me...

XOXOX,
Taryn Thomas

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In terms of what can be done and what is morally right, obviously stopping the one act which has been associated with all known cases of female HIV infection is a good place to begin. However, unlike most sports, the porn industry has no association which sets rules that all abide by. This means that what should be a simple change becomes complicated.

Obviously, the people at Evil Angel give a shit. Obviously their no-anal-creampies policy hasn't reduced them to poverty. This is a good example for others to follow, so let us remember to praise those who do well rather than just curse those who fail our expectations.

As for stating your opposition to anal 'creampies' whenever the subject comes up, more power to you.

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My point earlier was if an HIV positive penis goes into a womans butt, the woman still runs a risk of contracting HIV without being filled with 20 CC's of sperm in it.

As a porn consumer, I know that there is years and years of creampie material on the market already that would keep a stroker happy.

There was talk of putting performers in quarintine for 30 days if they worked out of country but sadly this never happened?.

Why I like cumfarts...... A small part of me says, "damn, thats gross" and a bigger and lower part of me says, "holy shit! thats hot!" Especially if there is cumplay or another girl to eat it up. I can't help it, I'm human but I know I could get off without seeing them.

Anyhow, thanks for bringing this topic up and making me see things differently.

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In the porn business, there are essentially two contracts: the studio pays the chick to act in its film; and I pay the studio to buy the result. There's no business relationship between me and the chick here, so why should I be beating myself up? The girls freely choose to do what they do; I freely choose to buy what I buy. Any health risk is on the girl's side. There's no problem for anyone here.

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I had watched a lot of your movies (you are great actress!) but never have seen the bastard Wallice to make a creampie with you, neither Delphine nor Catalin (the hungarian girl).
Catalin has only one movie with Wallice (anal scene) and the finish is facial (6-7 guys are jerking over girls face)

The creampie of Darren and Jessica is vaginal.

The scenes with Miss Arroyo and Lara Roxx are not released, so I haven't opinion about them.

Maybe the risk is presisting, not only with anal CP's but with usual anal sex.

Edited by - peterstone30 on 8/24/2005 3:21:26 PM

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Lara, Jessica and Missy all told AVN that their scenes with Darren were anal internal. I personally have not seen any of the scenes in question, I only know from talking to Jessica and Missy and from reading Lara's interviews with AVN.

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alot of people have hiv, and they didn't even get paid for it.

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Screw hypocrisy - those of us who live in the western world.....we do have a choice....

If you decide to enter porn in order to make big bucks, live fast...and not work as a waitress or whatever...you shouldn't put the blame on regulations (read: other people) afterwards...

Sorry, but thats just how I feel...

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Also, it's true these girls are not being forced but how many girls really know the danger of anal creampies? I doubt people like Jake Malone tells them how dangerous it is.

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At least that would be a constructive effort.

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I'm not really cruel and heartless - it's just that with a tiny number of exceptions none of the girls in porn mean anything to me at all, apart from the odd quick wank. When someone starts paying me $10,000 for a day's work, perhaps I'll start having more sympathy with the poor abused starlets.

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Edited by - andy2 on 8/25/2005 1:47:41 PM

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I have a pretty good idea most of them know what they are getting into before participating in an anal creampie scene. If they don't have enough common sense to realize that anal creampies are dangerous then maybe they should consider a different profession, one in which risks can be minimized and controlled.

With the amount of information readily available on the WWW, ignorance is no longer a feasible excuse. A smart, responsible person would take the time to research which sexual acts are reasonably safe and which aren't.

A third party shouldn’t have to intervene and regulate what transpires on a porn set. Pornstars have to take responsibility for their actions and do everything in their power to make good sensible choices.

Edited by - anal aficionado on 8/25/2005 4:31:35 PM

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How many have HIV?
So far as we know, a handful. That's a handful too many.

How many of them caught it from an anal "cream pie?"
So far as we can tell, all of them.

I too think that education is the best policy. In the absence of the facts however, I would prefer the girls be overly cautious.

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I hate to repeat myself, but since it appears it isn't sinking in, young people that age think they're immortal. They do stupid shit. If we're in a position to point out that they're doing stupid shit, and if the only downside is that some producer won't make as much money and us wankers don't get to see as many cream pies, then that's a pretty sorry excuse not to let these kids know the risks they're taking. If we assure ourselves that they do know, and they still want to risk it, fine. They're adults, they can make their own decisions. Let's just be sure they are informed ones.

Edited 'cause there's they're, then there's their. Sigh...

Edited by - hardware on 8/25/2005 5:45:54 PM

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My point is that (let's go with the current analogy of THIS thread) with driving a car, even the most naive person knows that people have gotten in car crashes and that some people have died from car crashes.
I simply am making sure that as many girls in porn as possible (by talking to agents, etc) know that even with current testing, it is still possible (although not likely) to get HIV. I don't feel comfortable supporting a business that preys on the naiveté of uninformed young girls.

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I do find it interesting though how many people think that these 18 year-old girls who come into the adult business (many of them because they don't want to deal with the realities of the real world, or they simply aren't ready for a real job yet) actively seek out information about risks.
But often, if a person tells them that a significant risk of something exists, they'll say something like "Oh, well I'm not going to do that then".

Hardware - I couldn't have said it better myself. These girls are young and enjoying living a free life. They think they are invincible and immortal.
My best friend in graduate school told me that he was concerned that I would get HIV 'or something'. I told him that the people in the videos got tested every 30 days and that the chances of me getting anything big were almost nonexistant.
Almost. What a big word.

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Burst-drenching cutie on thirst quenching duty, come over, cum over me.

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On the other hand, when you consider how many kids still take up smoking despite constant brainwashing about the risks, I guess we can still be hopeful that there'll be some enthusiastic young things whose desire to be nasty will outweigh any negative publicity they get exposed to.

Not that I'd wish this on anyone, but it might also help clarify the debate if someone were to catch HIV when there was no possibility that it came from a creampie - then it would be clear whatever the rhetoric that while creampies slightly increase the risk, not doing creampies doesn't eliminate it.

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Of course any doctor will tell you that anal "creampies" aren't the only way to become infected, but we are talking about a group of people who are regularly tested for HIV. That means that there's a relatively small window in which a newly HIV positive performer can pass the disease to another before being detected. According to the evidence so far, the odds are good that you have to perform a really high-risk act, like an anal "creampie," to catch the disease in that window.

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2. nobody said Darren James was duped into doing whatever it was that got him infected, because nobody has sympathy for A MAN who has no common sense

3. if your old enough 2 die in iraq you're old enough to take an a.c.p

4. you cant get hiv from an hiv- person, no matter what sex act you do. The focus should be on better testing technology

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They have safety regs in football. They can have safety regs in porn.

2. nobody said Darren James was duped into doing whatever it was that got him infected, because nobody has sympathy for A MAN who has no common sense

We don't know how Darren contracted HIV, but we know it wasn't from inside the US porn pool. We're discussing what can be done to protect those inside the US porn pool, here.

3. if your old enough 2 die in iraq you're old enough to take an a.c.p

I've already addressed the issue of personal responsibility. Your comment doesn't affect what I've stated already.

4. you cant get hiv from an hiv- person, no matter what sex act you do. The focus should be on better testing technology

I'm sure you mean that you CAN get HIV from an infected person no matter what sex act you do. Yep, been there, addressed that. As for better testing, while it would be great to have, it just isn't available at this time. That's why we're talking about options that ARE available at this time.

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Burst-drenching cutie on thirst quenching duty, come over, cum over me.

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We already got enough padding in football. Fans would never accept more padding in football.

I don't need anymore padding in my porn. Get in the game, play to win! A.C.P.

I wouldn't care if the stars only gulped down a creampie from the freshly enema-ed ass of their best girlfriend. And that creampie was the nut of their husband. And all involved has just performed the most rigourous HIV testing available. And movies like CFC 3,4 etc cost $50 each...I'd pay that for the full effect. But don't try to end run a woman's right to choose through econmic sanctions against the porn company or fear based propaganda.

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I haven't proposed economic sanctions, I've proposed education.

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Can't we all just get along and FUCK...

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Interestingly, I agree with you about Jake. He's one of the ones I was talking about when I said that I think that some of the directors shooting are REALLY good people.

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Sure, that's for just one day's work. But now realize that guys like you don't give a shit if the girl gets used up in less than a year. Figure the girl catches a couple 'minor' STDs during that year, and maybe needs to take sometime off to rest her asshole, which is becoming abused. Let's hypothesize that the girl does 100 scenes. Certainly not ALL of them will be anal creampies. So let's hypothesize taht she makes $100,000 in her 1-year porn career. $30,000 of that goes to the government for taxes.
So she's made a grand total of $70,000. Not too shabby, but in my opinion, not nearly enough that she shouldn't weigh fairly carefully which risks she wants to take.

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If I remember correctly, I seem to recall someone telling me that they sit the performers down when they show up for their first tests, and have them watch a sort of "Porn 101" tape which explains a few of the ins and outs (pun SO not intended) of the business, warns them about future social implications, and yes, talks about STDs.
I think it is very possible that they could talk about STDs and risks without having mentioned to the performers that anyone had ACTUALLY gotten HIV from a scene, or which type of sex acts it had been from.

Oh, and BTW, on another point -
enemas of the Fleet variety increase the risk of transmission of STDs to the female if she is having anal sex with a male with an STD.
Strong chemical enemas irritate the mucous membranes of the anal canal. Sometimes they cause minute tears in the girl's ass, which are essentially an open wound.

Almost all girls in porn do a thorough anal cleansing before an anal scene. Most of them use Fleet-type enemas. Some girls use the old-style enema bag with lots and lots of water.

Edited by - tricia_devereaux on 8/26/2005 2:57:39 AM

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Consider the post Tricia just made about the yearly income of an adult performer. 70K in many communities in the LA area is below the median yearly income there--how profitable is this game really to most of these girls? If someone were to sit them down before their first scene and say:

"Well, you can expect to last about six months unless you do anal, multiple men, swallowing, bukkake, anal, and creampies. Then you can last a year. 70K is average for a year. You might do much better than that, but don't lease the Modena just yet. Oh yes. Expect to get several treatable STD's, including probably herpes. Overwork leads to inflammation, injuries to the vagina and anus are common. All medical is out of your pocket, by the way, as is testing. Oh yes, and then there is AIDS . . ." I suspect that many girls would stay with nude, girl/girl, and softcore, or just go back to where they came from. And that, as Andy2 would confirm, is bad for business and bad for consumers.

Critics have argued for years then it is ignorance that sells porn to teenage girls--the idea being that an 18 year old girl will inherently make poor decisions that a 25 woman would not. Or at least that an older performer would set their own parameters and not budge from them as willingly. They claim that the idea of "freedom to choose" is rhetorical at best when you have no advocate except the agent showing you the money. They argue that a young woman who chooses to be independent is still much more likely to suffer from limited choices and economic deprivation than a man, and than the sex industry thrives on this.

I'm not going to take a position on this issue here, except to suggest that the question of HIV education for new girls in the business is a component of a larger and long-standing question about whether the majority of performers have a full understanding of the facts and are in a position to make responsible choices about what they do for a living. I don't think this is a white/black area, either; I imagine there are a lot of very nice people (as well as assholes) who produce porn who are well aware of the conflict of interest in telling the next Jenna all the facts about STD's and watching her leave the set forever before her first shoot. So let's not simplify the "freedom of choice" for the girls who perform for us, since it is a lot more complicated than that, so murky and dark that many fans (and people in the business) would rather not think about it at all.

A couple of other things I was thinking about, which could apply to the "Anal-Creampie" thread as well as this one. I know of few businesses in America (or anywhere in the industrialized world) were workers are free to choose or not choose to behave in the safest manner possible. Health workers must wear gloves, construction workers must wear helmets, etc. None of this is up to the individual to decide. The reason is partly outside regulation, but it is also liability--the presumption that anything that goes wrong at the workplace to an employee is the responsibility of the employer. The adult industry is unique in that producers accept (to my knowledge) no responsibility, financial or otherwise, for the health and safety of the people they contract to work for them. So if you get an STD (including HIV) on set--too bad. If you tear your rectum--tough for you. If you choke to death on cocks and cum--it was nice knowing you. There is no insurance, no pension, no liability applied to the producer at all. Now, while it is obviously in their interest to have safe, STD-free sets, and to treat talent with the utmost care and respect, there is no legal liability, no clause or facet of any contract or model release, compelling them to do so. (If I am mistaken on this, please tell me).

Lastly, I have read so many of these kinds of threads on ADT, and participated in quite a few discussions about the sex industry in general over the years--there is always a philosophical division seemingly based on those consumers who want to see the same constructs of social and ethical responsibility applied to adult entertainment as are taken for granted elsewhere in our public and professional lives . . . and the second group, who see such notions of social ethics as a laughable oxymoron when applied to sex workers. It is pretty easy to identify who belongs to which camp on this thread (and its current neighbor), isn't it?

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