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All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 371 > Characters are more important than stories
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JuicyTweaks
Member


Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 6:20AM
This is my first post.
This should probably be on a personal blog. But I don't have one, so I'll share this essay here.
These are some ideas that've been floating in my mind, recently.
I'm in my mid twenties, & with humility, I'd describe myself as a renaissance man.
Basically, I'm a nerd who's into art, math, politics, environmental issues, economics, etc.
To top it all off, I've got an intense libido.
I'd like to hug Russell Brand & say: "I GET IT!".
The only reason I mention this is to explain why I love the idea of porn, but hate its execution.
In one sense, I'm like alot of guys: Porn is a quick & convenient way to exercise my sexual nature before going out on weekends.
But in a more tragic sense: My nerdiness prevents me from enjoying much of the porn that's out there.
What turns me on is reality, whereas porn tends to imitate reality television.
That is to say, it's very fake & limited.
The obvious, & over-worn, argument is that there's a lack of story.
But I don't like this phrasing, because it implies too much.
It implies that you need expensive costumes, boring melodrama, horror, or action stunts.
You don't need that.
What you do need are characters, motivations, & subtlety.
- Characters who have real ambitions, jobs, opinions, & quirks.
- Motivations that make me believe she'd want to blow someone so passionately.
- Subtlety which lets you say things (through clothes, glances, & behaviour), without saying anything.
I'll just provide two examples where the above principles worked.
By no means are they perfect.
They're only meant to highlight how decent characters/motivations/subtlety made both a classy & amateur scene work.
On the "classy" end, I recently saw a mansion scene starring Dana DeArmond.
She played a real estate agent trying to sell a house to a wealthy black man.
The guy (perhaps he's not acting) acted like a totally spoiled rich perv.
But the beautiful thing was Dana's acting.
She was hesitant at first, then gave in displaying such shame, but soon grew to be animal-like at the prospect of closing the sale.
What could have been the usual mansion fuck scene...turned into this great depiction of greed & exploitation...leaving me to wonder who was really screwing who in the transaction.
On the "amateur" end, I saw a blowjob scene with Mika Tan.
Every other scene in this series involved mechanical face fucking with the minimum of dialogue.
For some reason, Mika decided played an actual character: a motor-mouth girlfriend.
This guy charges in, & Mika begins listing off a series of complaints about the relationship.
Instead of sitting down & listening, he proceeds to face fuck her.
The beauty of this was that Mika kept reciting a laundry-list of complaints, with a cock in her mouth, throughout the entire scene.
What could have been a boring abusive oral video, turned into this weird commentary on troubled relationships...with the girl frustrated but refusing to give up on her man...and the man just oblivious & selfish.
Again, these aren't perfect examples.
In fact, they're both examples of exploitative porn, made more effective.
If there was porn that reflected love, I'd mention it...but alas, we can only dream...
That's all I have to say right now.
Thanks for letting me share/vent.

Edited by - juicytweaks on Nov 18 2009

BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 6:40AM
Juicytweaks, you should check out some of the best features from the 70s (hop on over to the Features forum for that) and/or the gonzo films of Mason for what you're looking for.
JuicyTweaks
Member

Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 12 2009 : 8:14AM
Thanks for posting.
But I feel really awful about my response.
I checked out a bunch of "Mason" vids at a VOD.
It's looks very stylish & sexy (and kinda sexist, for a female director).
Sadly, it also follows the formula of many paysites: Introduce girl, fuck girl.
The girls came off as brain-dead ho's, which was probably the point (again, kinda surprising for a female director).
Perhaps you suggested "Mason" because the two scenes I described leaned towards "rough"?
It wasn't my intention to solicit that, so sorry for the confusion.
I'll check out the 70's stuff...
But I have to admit, watching porn produced before I was born...it creeps me out!
Again, sorry for the unenthusiastic response.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 13 2009 : 1:39AM
Try Annette Schwarz is Slutwoman or Kristina Rose is Slutwoman, they are both kinky and rough but also, imo, very revealing of the performer's personalities.
kristinarose
Member

797 Posts
2/08
Posted - Nov 13 2009 : 4:03AM
Mason is amazing at exposing people to a performers personality. Not just their porn persona but who they are as a person. I feel very special that I got to be one of the luck ladies she has chosen to showcase. :)
 
Savoy All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06
Posted - Nov 15 2009 : 12:52AM
Seems to me this guy wants vignettes with good actors in them.
The porn sites are pretty flimsy with set-ups and characters and backstory. Sometimes features are too. I like the inactive "Sodomania" series from Elegant Angel for setting up perverse scenarios and keeping talent in character. (I just bought vol 2 and 3 comps for less than 30 bucks at ADE. Yay!)
If you want to try a feature, "Corruption" did an AMAZING job of keeping the sex scenes true to character and important to the storyline.
I would also just follow the girls you mentioned. With vignettes, the power of it greatly depends on the performer's role-playing abilities. Mika Tan is awesome at it, so was Penny Flame.
And as far as Mason's character study pornos go - you can't just watch the sex scenes. The girls' are allowed to shine in the filler between with interviews and random footage. They should really be watched as a whole (if possible).

Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 15 2009 : 10:51AM
Yep - I agree with all the Mason recs- and would like to add Tori Black is Pretty Filthy, and Kristina Rose: Dirty Girl. I really enjoyed the intimacy in those films (as in, the in-between segments that really created a sense of the performer's character).
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 15 2009 : 10:14PM
There's a series called Dirty Little Stories that sometimes has very good scenario scenes in it, I remember one with Gianna and Stefano that was terrific.
Ferrara's Evilution series also is vignette based, but may be too kinky for your tastes.
ninja1
Senior Member

2939 Posts
1/08
Posted - Nov 16 2009 : 12:28AM
Most of Rodney Moore's scenes are based on some sort of scenario, ranging from absurd to humorous to kinky. The girls aren't trained actresses, but most of them manage it OK. I get the sense that Rodney just explains to them the fictional set-up and how it's supposed to play out, and they just ad-lib it from there. Maybe a bit crude for a Renaissance man, but it's much better than "zero to pounding in 60 seconds".
JuicyTweaks
Member

Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 16 2009 : 6:54AM

I just re-read my original post. And I kind of regret how long-winded it is
It was a late at night, & the lack of interesting content on my VOD pissed me off.
Exhaustion, disappointment, fear of posting for the first time (& possibly weed) contributed to that beautiful mess up there.
But I still love the idea expressed: That before the sex turns me on, the characters have to.
Will do.
I make no judgment of those suggestions, because I haven't seen them yet.
But for stars themselves to excite me...it has to be more than just intense kinky sex.
Reveal your pet peeves, politics, or hobbies.
Otherwise, I just don't get excited.
I just realized...
The idea of "Mason" is more of a turn-on than some of the sex she produces.
(No offense to you Kristina, because I haven't seen your stuff yet)
At first, I thought she was some actress just reading lines a male director gave her.
So I googled some interviews, to see if she was legit.
I found some long one she did with a guy named "Luke". And she was so interesting, talking about everything from her politics, to dislikes, to admirable goals about "protecting girls" in porn.
The idea of this interesting person, barking orders & encouraging filthy sex...
While maintaining the admiration of Kristina (a star) & BlackSix (a fan)...
To me, that's a character! And that kinda turns me on. ;)
LOL!
(I'm imagining myself reciting my original post as a university lecture.
The audience responds by scratching their heads.
Then you shout that quoted sentence. :) )
Thanks for the suggestions.
Sometimes, I wonder if porn creators ever lost their virginity...or lost it too fast.
It's like the shit was produced by fifteen year olds enamoured by nudity & penetration itself.
What happened to the excitement of meeting a new girl at a bus stop?
Exchanging glances?
Watching her twist those hips as she boarded?
As Tupac Shakur sang: "Tease me, I don't wanna hit the sack easy!"
I LOVED "Night of the giving head" & "Talk Show Tarts".
Those were the total packages: Funny characters/stories combined with great sexual acts.
Though, alot of his "casting couch" type stuff is tragedy.
He's butt ugly, & I don't want to see his nasty body.
And when I can get past that...he ruins it by reducing the girls to various flavours of prostitute (hookers, ad-responders, etc.).
Still, his best vids more than make up for his saggy white ass. :)
Savoy All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06
Posted - Nov 16 2009 : 7:09AM
I laughed when I read this. Watch GGG's rec of "Kristina Rose: Dirty Girl". There is actually a segment on one of her hobbies - collecting gnomes and she shares that she used to paint watercolors. She shows a few and they are AMAZING.
There are many "Sodomania" scenes where the set-up to sex lasts longer than the actual fucking. Patrick Collins gets it and you don't have to watch him fuck - er, wait. Scratch that. You might. I haven't seen everyone of them. There's somewhere around 40 volumes.
kristinarose
Member

797 Posts
2/08
Posted - Nov 17 2009 : 3:50PM
^^^^
Annnnd thanks to Mason and that wonderful idea of putting my gnomies in Dirty Girl, I'm now lucky enough to sometimes get gnomes from fans at signings. So when I look around my house I can see my gnomes and remember all the people that gave them to me! Makes collecting gnomes like 10 hex s more fun!!!
Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05
Posted - Nov 17 2009 : 7:05PM
Vignettes was my first thought too. I love vignettes myself and wish there were more produced. I do generally think more are being made though, although the degree of their affectiveness tends to vary. The OP spotlighted Dana DeArmond, while you sight Mika Tan & Penny Flame. I personally think it takes a certain kind of performer to do that stuff well, as well as directors who will let them go for it. The three mentioned are the rare female performer who can work many scenarios or s/l's well. I personally like Jenna Haze in such things also. It appears to me that a good percentage of performers hate the performance (play-acting) side of it, which is ashame. I used to like porn from the 70's & 80's for the different set-ups and scenarios alone, but the feature films of today lost that part somewhere.
I know Naughty America does a lot of vignettes based on teachers, MILF's, housewives, and whatever. Can't say everything I've seen has been great, but I generally like their attempts at least. There are a lot of films being made around the premise of secretary's, which are scenarios I generally find interesting if not for the hot dresses or outfits alone.
Edited by - aplus on 11/17/2009 7:14:21 PM
Captain Tight Pants
Member

337 Posts
9/09
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 2:18AM
Interesting thoughts...
My question is: is it hard to do? or is no one trying?
In some of the scenes done by Pink Visual, especially the Her First Lesbian Sex, the girls stay in character and act out a situation. It's sort of like an impov acting exercise. i think sometimes the girls are just playing themselves. So it almost is real. or seems real.
JuicyTweaks
Member

Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 4:12AM
If we're trying to reflect reality...
Many relationships (long & short) start off without saying a word.
You glance, smile, & use body language...to convey interest & even tease.
And if words are involved, many times they're wooden & said with hesitation.
You use small talk, rambling, & talk about the lamest things.

One of my friends models jackets for international clothiers, & he's working on a BA.
The most interesting thing is to see what goes on around him at a library.
Alot of girls in his vicinity are too nervous to talk, so they do the most silly physical things to express interest (hair tosses, shaky legs, quick longing stares, etc.)
My feeling is that you can create a porn series around a guy like him.
And it wouldn't require much dialogue memorization from the girls.
Because you can express alot without saying anything at all.
HOLY CRAP!
I've just seen some retro vids, and they're freaking me out.
They're so simple, & exciting...like this guy walks into a store shopping for his wife, proceeding to seduce the shop girl. Another one is about this business getaway turned "Clue"...only it involved sex rather than murder. Then there's some mafia thing with a girl named Vanessa Del Rio...AMAZING!
And I have to say, the retro "mature" girls look WAY realer than the "mature" girls of today.
Maybe it's the lack of plastic surgery or something.
I just adore this lady named Kay Parker.
Good call BlackSix & others.
I said most porn reflects "Reality TV", not reality.
And that says it all.
"Reality TV" may well be easier, cheaper, & quicker to produce.
But it ends up being faker than alot of the scripted stuff.
Sadly, I can't seem to find the HBO of porn.
 
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 1:31PM
^ Glad you found Kay Parker - she's lovely. You should check out Sex World - I rewatched it over the weekend, and it was a ton of fun.
What are the names of the movies you watched? I like the sound of the one that's like Clue.
RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06
Posted - Nov 18 2009 : 2:00PM
I've always loved Rodney's stuff. I used to take him for granted but over the years as most porn got worse and worse, Rodney was always reliable. What's cool about his setups is that they don't try really hard to make it some serious acting performance and yet it still adds something amazing to the scene. Rodney seems to have always had a knack for getting some real personality to come through.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 19 2009 : 12:38AM
Sex World is great, the first xxx feature that really impressed me.
JuicyTweaks is so lucky that he's just discovering the like of Kay Parker and Vanessa Del Rio! Not to mention Leslie Bovee, Samantha Fox, Annie Sprinkle, Susan McBain, Serena, etc.
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 19 2009 : 8:47AM
^ I know - it wasn't all that long ago for me, but I'm still jealous.
Flash All-Star Supporter
Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 1:52PM
I was hoping the OP was going to come back and identify the Clue movie.
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 1:54PM
^ Me too. If they don't, then I'm gonna have to assume it was an illegal download...
JuicyTweaks
Member

Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 5:38PM
I am NOT a "pirate".
In order to prove my innocence, I'll have to get detailed & technical.
First, let me clarify two things:
1) I only post here in the mornings, if I have time before classes & real life.
That's why I didn't jump back into this thread sooner, as it gets me excited & rambling.
2) For the record, I'm an AEBN subscriber.
So settle down, I pay for every minute...good or bad.
Secondly, I don't know the name of the "Clue"-type movie.
(Bear in mind, it wasn't actually trying to be "Clue". The storyline was that there was a business getaway, & this guy kept making love to each of the wives. The other husbands spent alot of time blaming each other & trying to figure out who it was.)
The night I watched it was the first time I've ever searched for retro vids.
I was shuffling through scores of vids to get a good sense of the genre.
I used AEBN's "advanced scene search".
This lets you specify a category (problem #1: I don't remember whether I used 80's or 70's).
And within that, you can specify preferred sex acts (problem #2: there are 4 different variations of sex act I was searching for).
The search results are video hyperlinks that jump to scenes which match your criteria.
In terms of the nameless "Clue" movie, I only watched the last twenty minutes, because that's when the drama took off.
Thirdly, my habit is to only "favourite" series or stars.
I've never saved a "one off" feature title, because I don't tend to watch something twice.
So keeping that in mind...
The one retro series which I did "favourite" was: "TALK DIRTY TO ME"

I've only seen #1, but it was enough to convince me there's potential.
All the scenes are interesting, but "SCENE 3" SOLD ME!
The actress hits it out the park with BOTH her character-acting & skilled sexual acts.
In fact, it came off as a more polished version of the Dana DeArmond scene I previously described.
In the future, I will make note of the ALL the good stuff & share it with you guys.
Again, thanks for your interest.
Bear with me, as this is the first time I've actually discussed porn with other people.
Before this, I was a very selfish viewer. :)
Edited by - juicytweaks on 11/20/2009 5:48:48 PM
datdude
Member

72 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 6:13PM
Great post! I feel the same way! It was nice to hear anothers response to what I feel.
Im into POV porn and it could be greatly improved if they did a quick real life clip. Meet her at a bar, club,school,wedding,friends sister,coworker,waitress,and everything else life throws at you.
I would like to see women wear real clothing, Imt talking, Jeans, nice shirt, or something they would wear outside. Panties and bra's also. Make them like real hook up's, it would add to the fantasy.

JuicyTweaks
Member

Porn should be as complicated as you & me
11 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 6:54PM
Right on bro! On both counts.
My long-ass post can best be summarized by what you said.
The legit entertainment that currently inspires porn are:
- On TV, MadTV & SNL skit shows
- In the movies, crazy big budget action/horror/suspense movies.
Instead of SNL...
On TV, watch "Curb your enthusiasm" or "It's always Sunny in Philadelphia".
Those are filmed in real-life settings, no sets or expensive theatrics.
It's the characters & realism that makes them effective.
Instead of some big budget flick...
In the movies, watch Richard Linklater's "Before Sunrise" & "Before Sunset".
It shows backpacking strangers talking & teasing each other...basically falling in love.
But at the end, the movies abruptly stop where porn can take over.
In both, the thing to look for is how realistic characters & their simple conversations can seduce the audience.
Porn has the advantage of taking it to the next level, by expressing the actual love (or "sex", or "fucking", "gagging", "ass-fucking", "tickling", etc.).
Edited by - juicytweaks on 11/20/2009 6:57:57 PM
datdude
Member

72 Posts
11/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 7:11PM
Thanks! Its true that porn follows pop-culture instead of real life. Hooking up and having sex is not some pop culture bull-shit, it is two people having some kind of chemistry.
 
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 20 2009 : 8:33PM
Glad to have prompted you into posting.
I'm so glad you mentioned Talk Dirty to Me - that's one of my favourite films. Be sure to watch Nothing to Hide, which is the unofficial, but "truer" sequel. It's mindblowingly sweet.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 21 2009 : 3:18AM
JuicyTweaks, Anthony Spinelli directed Talk Dirty to Me, Nothing to Hide and Sex World. He is great, you might also like the comedies of Chuck Vincent, my favourites include Fascination and Misbehavin'.
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 21 2009 : 3:19AM
Oh, and I also use VOD quite a bit, I agree it's a great way to explore stuff you're interested in but aren't ready to spring the full $20+ to just check it out.
Captain Tight Pants
Member

337 Posts
9/09
Posted - Nov 21 2009 : 7:52PM
I loved "Before Sunrise". That was a great film.
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 21 2009 : 8:18PM
Just ordered Fascination on your rec. I love MisBehavin, so I hope I like this one too. Thanks!
BlackSix All-Star Supporter
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pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07
Posted - Nov 21 2009 : 9:48PM
I hope you enjoy it Gore Gore, I find Fascination actually funny, which few porn comedies are. There's a number of good, clever scenes in it, Ron Jeremy is actually charming in it!
I should have also mentioned Vincent's Roommates, Jack n' Jill and In Love, unfortunately In Love isn't available on DVD.
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 8:59AM
^ I love Roommates, but haven't seen the other two. Sucks one isn't available. Maybe I can track it down on VHS.
Captain Tight Pants
Member

337 Posts
9/09
Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 10:13AM
Nothing to Hide 2 is really good too. Roxanne Blaze is terrific in it
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 22 2009 : 11:25AM
^ Awesome - the first one is in my top movies of all time. I love that goddamn movie.
Savoy All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

Sucker for Sinners
1844 Posts
12/06
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 10:36AM
I just watched it a few days ago. So strange to watch a porno that feels like a real movie. Makes me sad that people can't seem to do that anymore these days.
I could not stop laughing at the end of the last sex scene when he gives that girl he didn't want to fuck a facial and she FLIPS OUT!! hahaha My, how things have changed.
 
Gore Gore Girl All-Star Supporter
Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09
Posted - Nov 24 2009 : 11:30AM
^ I know!! That movie is rad in a host of ways. Anyone that knows me should know one of my favourite things in the whole wide world is a 1970s/1980s montage sequence, and Nothing to Hide is way up on my list of favourites.
charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09
Posted - Feb 10 2010 : 1:49AM
Candida Royalle.
Bluto
Deactivated User

511 Posts
3/09
Posted - Mar 10 2010 : 8:42AM
She also had a nice butt, tho never used.
Fernandez
Deactivated User

781 Posts
12/08
Posted - Jun 8 2010 : 8:58AM
Candida had an awesome butt.



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