There is no 100% safe way to cut off someone's breath for any longer than how long they can hold it all on their own. Sorry, but that's the truth. Even if they not die from asphyxiation or a stroke, heart attack or seizure, then you have to take into consideration the effects that lack of oxygen has on brain cells and the brain stem, itself. This is another cumulative effect of oxygen deprivation.What I'm saying is that by thinking, "Well I MAY die from this..." doesn't have the same impact in the human mind as saying "I will die from this." Ask any smoker... "This may kill me" is not the same as "this will kill me." It is true that the usual term is "may", as there is a good chance that you will survive that one time. But how about the next? Or the next? When will that blood clot that is forming when you are being clasped by the throat cut loose and kill you? It may not even happen during the actual choking - it rarely does. It usually happens some time after the arteries are released from the grip of whatever is there cutting off the breath in choking play.Less risky, yes. But now we're talking about the difference between killing off brain cells (how many, how fast, and what is the cumulative effect, especially with long term exposure to this type of practice?) and having a stroke or heart attack, Tricia. Neither one of those is something that most people want to think about. As anyone knows that has taken CM Hurt's/Cynthia's or any other person's class on the subject, pressing on the front of the throat screws up the muscles and larynx in an even more immediate way. Unless you put absolutely no pressure there, and in that case, it doesn't cause loss of breath at all, and is all for show. I have taken the classes, including CM Hurt's, I have read the medical aspects, I have played with it myself. I even understand why some people are into it. I could get into it, if I didn't know what I know about it. But, unless everyone involved in a production is as educated about it as some of the people in here are, including yourself, then there should be a full explanation of what the outcome might be from doing it, and a signed consent agreement in place (just as you must do for skydiving, and thank you for that analogy, Tricia) before the scene begins filming. Because without it - everyone involved will be tried for murder if something so random and unpredictable as death should happen from choking or other types of asphyxiation on that set. What people choose to do in their own bedrooms is another matter - but even they need to have an understanding of what happens to your body with any of these practices and the potential outcome of all of these practices.
Black and Blue Media: PR and Publicity
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jul 26 2007 : 10:11PM
LadyB: I don't have anything to add aside from saying that I appreciate your posts in this topic.
OK. The bottom line here is that it can be dangerous. So can having unprotected sex. Also, the same people who are running around ringing their hands about this probably think nothing of boarding an airliner that will take them up to 30,000 feet and several hundred MPH. Oh, but that couldn't possibly be dangerous, could it? You zip around in a car at 65-70 MPH. If you happen to have a sudden encounter with an object of equal or greater mass, you might have a really bad day. People still drive. How many people have been scraped off of the road? Are you stupid or are you taking a calculated risk? But here we are arguing about it. Why? Because it relates to sex, of course. Nothing is ever that big of a deal unless it's sex. Now I just wonder why that is? I have my own theory but I'll leave people to formulate their own. An airliner crashes and 300 people die. Oh well. Just another day and another 300 dead. It's a big story for a few days but people still fly. Something went wrong. It was the exception, rather than the rule. A few people hang themselves trying to get off and the sky is falling. Odd? Not at all! It's sex, after all! They should have known. Look. Most people who have any common sense at all can figure it out that this sort of thing can kill you if something goes wrong. I'm pretty sure most who do it are aware of the risks. They may not be medical doctors but really. How hard is it to figure out that allowing someone to choke you might end badly? Edited by - randomprecision on 7/27/2007 6:29:10 AM
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 6:33AM
RP: See a multitude of posts in WN&N (I know you have) and you'll remember that what you call "common sense" is hardly common. If it were this thread wouldn't exist. Stupid dangerous behavior is common, sense is pretty rare. Transportation related safety concerns are a little different. Sure there is a calculated level of danger from flying. You get into a car or plane knowing what to expect. The problem with choking is that there is no way to calculate it ahead of time. The risks are great and unknown.
Look. What I'm saying is that simply living is a risk. I could be taken out right now by a freak tornado or struck by lightening walking my dog. lots of people have played around with choking and sex. Most live to tell about it. The few freak cases get a lot more attention than the (perhaps millions) of people who do it successfully and survive. personally, it's not really my thing. Maybe a little. I enjoy the rough stuff to some degree if the girl is liking it but I'm claustrophobic so it's not something I'd enjoy in my private sex life. But more to the point, who is responsible for people who have no common sense? Their parent's, perhaps. But they apparently had little to none either because they probably knew they didn't have the best genes and chose to breed anyway. So yeah. It could end badly. It's been done relatively safely quite a lot, however.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 1:03PM
trisha There is NO "responsible" company doing choking or asphyxiation. It is a practice that even BDSM groups dondemn and on premise BDSM clubs strictly forbid it. If you think that EA or anyone else is doing it in a responsible manner, the only person you are fooling is yourself.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 4:43PM
Mike- You could easily spell my name correctly just by looking above my avatar. Secondly, you have no idea what goes on before or during shooting on an EA set, so please don't pretend that you do. LadyB- All excellent points, none of which I am disputing. I will also admit that my personal prefences do bias me somewhat in this subject.
Also think about the consequencies that an accidental death of a star because of breath play might have to the industry, with a written consensus or not I think it could be a safe way to put them in dedicated lines if anything happen that line can be closed and all the others are safe , but if that thing is available everywhere than it might be considered as the regular porn and because of this can put the whole industry in great danger. Even in Europe.
The accidental death of a star? C'mon lets be realistic here. People pretty much never die from accidental choking, that's just not the way our bodies were designed. How many UFC or other martial artists died in the ring using real blood chokes and real hard choking as opposed to wrapping your hands around around the throat? Sure there is one guy who CLAIMS to have killed his lover by accident and honestly I call bullshit. I've choked out enough people in the military and been choked out enough times to know a simple rule. If they stop fighting, let go. They wake right up, pissed off and disoriented but alive and more or less unharmed.
The lack of oxygen in brain tissues and cells could lead to an heart attack or a collapse , no matter how young you are I don't know how many studios have an intensive care unit at their disposal when shooting, also that is totally unpredictable it might not occur for 100 times but might happens the 101st time even when you're not even pushing or choking hard also look at this especially the back cover they are all auto asphyxiation flicks with masturbation even with plastic bags you sure nothing might happen ever?
Choking and breath play are different animals despite being similar. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody died by plastic bag for any number of stupid reasons. To be fair I'm sure you could somehow manage to choke a girl and accidently kill her. It would take an unimaginable amount of luck, a girl with some kind of pre-existing probably unknown problem but it could happen. A girl could probably drown on her vomit during a throat fucking sessions to.
^ No pre-existing problem are needed a perfectly healthy girl might die for that , every time a girl get choked or asphyxiated or breath plays in any way the lack of oxygen creates damage to the tissues and especially brain and lungs along with arteries the body might react badly anytime , no matter how experienced someone might be its not the lack of experience the issue here of course experienced people are better than unexperienced , but heart reactions are completely unpredictable its like a panic attack with people who never had , unpredictable. Edited by - hardware on 7/28/2007 1:10:22 AM
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 8:44PM
Make no mistake about it Tricia, if you think I don't talk with people who have shot for EA you are delusional. While I have never officially been on an EA set I do know what happens on them. There is a name for employers who, through negligence cause an employee to be harmed or killed. They call them "Defendants". And there are companies in porn, whom as I write this, have found themselves in that very situation.
Edited by - hardware on 7/28/2007 1:11:16 AM
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heart pure Deactivated User
66 Posts 7/07
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 9:17PM
Let me approach this in a different angle. Cutting off blood supply to brain does induce some degree of euphoria. But who this euphoria for? Mostly for the girl, almost zip for the majority of porn viewers (don't think even BDSM viewers will care for it) Hand-choking is a service for the girl, kinda like cunilingus. I hate to see girl hand-choked and the reason I hate it is the safety issue. However I think I am in the minority on this because most porn viewers simply wouldn't care. Performers' health has not been, is not and never will be the point of porn. Hand-choking will not disappear with this approach. It will disappear when it don't sell and I think sooner or later it won't sell. Do the choking by deepthroat instead. Edited by - heart pure on 7/27/2007 9:39:08 PM Edited by - heart pure on 7/27/2007 10:06:34 PM
To the original poster: Yep, I've seen the advertising, and I don't like it. Not my cup of tea. Should it be banned? I don't know. I'm not a hardcore libertarian, I'm more of a pragmatist. If the consequences of a such "trend" in porn would be more deaths (actors or viewers), I could certainly sympathize with people who want to ban it.
Even if it is as you say a service to the girl it doesn't mean it isn't risky , also do the performer exactly know how risky it is? While I agree that the most part of consumers don't care about it, I disagree with the second statement , if that practice is placed among regular porn flicks it will not affect the selling of the DVDs , in fact even those who cares will jump to the next scene but not avoid that DVD. However more than one per DVD is too much , I won't buy anymore a director who places too many choking scenes , actually I already don't buy throath gagging DVDs , or fuck my face and so on
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 7/28/2007 2:46:31 AM
When the choking starts I either fast-forward through it or go to some other scene. It's a wood-killer and I hate it. I do appreciate a woman who likes to get her ass slapped though. Especially when another hot woman is slapping it. Such is the wonderful world of sex and porn; who can explain kink? Edited by - BobArctor on 7/28/2007 3:06:12 PM
It's not that risky! Holy shit show me the last time somebody died in UFC! Show me the last time somebody died wrestling. Show me how many people die annually in military training each year? Ask anybody who has done martial arts, or even rolled around in the yard with his friends. It's pretty damn hard to choke somebody out on purpose, forget by accident. The choking, like the gagging, like the slapping is for the guys. Same as the titles Tear Me a New One, Throat Gaggers, Fuck My Skull, let's be honest with ourselves. There are plenty of guys with mysogynistic thoughts. JM productions and Max Hardcore are pretty much companies built around the idea that torturing a woman is not only ok, it's entertainment. Stop lying to yourself, either decide (like me) that you're okay with it. Or don't and start boycotting these titles and the companies who make them. Vote with your wallet. The chances of somebody accidently being strangled to death is nil and until and unless you can show otherwise, not, well braincells start dying immediately, bs then there is no point in the conversation.
I actually don't buy nor rent anything coming out from Max or JM I saw 'em once and that was really enough. You still misunderstood and understimate the risks , you misunderstood (willingly?) that the major risk is an heart attack , you and many others understimate the risks of that practice in the long period , it is LETHAL the same way that smoking is , some can survive but many will not the damage is cumulative , and this practice is only of a recent diffusion , it is only a matter of time , it is difficult to die because of too much smoking in 5 years nor in 10 years nor even in 20 years , but at the thirty year of smoking the dead are thousands , it's a cumulative damage to kill brain cells , lung cells and heart cells among the others is not a healthy way to live long. It is also a matter of time before a star will die on the set because of that and if that happen then the industry will be shut down. It is a risky way even for healthy peaple but sometimes in the industry there are stars addicted to drugs or alchool or partying too much , if they arrive in a set not completely recovered from the excesses of the night before than the risk will rise , if the star is high the risk will be even higher. again are you sure that all of this is impossible? Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 7/28/2007 2:27:49 PM
Look. The whole thing about something like this is that you're never gonna get a straight answer from any medical professional. No doctor in his right mind is gonna sign off on anything that could even be remotely dangerous. And if asked, he or she will always point out the worst case scenario. Why? Because....yes. It could happen. And if it does, he or she obviously doesn't want the surviving participant to point and say "But HE said it was completely safe!" Find me one doctor who will guarantee that unprotected sex is 100% safe as long as everybody gets tested regularly. You will not find one. And if you do and he or she goes on record, they're opening themselves up to untold litigation. So if it's risky, it's because medical professionals are afraid to be completely honest and choose to err on the side of caution. Rather than describing how to do it relatively safely, they simply say there's no safe way to do it. And they're right. But there's no safe way to do anything that could be lethal if done improperly or something goes wrong. Ask a doctor how to safely cross the street and he;ll probably tell you the safest way is not to cross it at all. You have to realize nobody wants to be sued. So again.....you will never get a completely honest answer as to exactly how dangerous it is. Everyone knows it's risky to some degree. But people are gonna do what they like. As long as the information is out there, there's no excuse for people not to look it up. Especially if they're thinking of doing something like this. I'm a big fan of letting people decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies. I'd legalize assisted suicide if I could. Nobody has a right to tell someone "You can't do this because it isn't safe and I don't want you to".
We have not statistics on that matter yet , it is a relatively new practice there are not even linkage between homicides with women strangled or suffocated and that practice About the fact that not even unprotected sex is safe is ridiculous to say the very least even to breathe isn't 100% safe , even to eat , but doesn't mean that a dangerous practice is safe. Billions of people literally have uprotected sex and yet the percentage of risk is minimal given the number and the risk isn't in the practice itself but in some disease , heart attack are minimal and might occur in protected sex either, also if a married couple is faithful the risk of unprotected sex is practically inhexistent, those practicing breath play are a relatively small number but the risk is much more high , this time it is the sex act itself to be risky , it is a regular sex PLUS asphyxiation is that PLUS the danger. I'm not asking to stop that after all they are all adult and willing people and I'm not a bigot I don't thing that what i don't like is wrong but what I like is good and right, I just don't like mistreatment of star and useless violence this practice although very risky is not imposed by violence , no one is forced to do it at least so far. I'm only pointing out the risks and the fact that stars should be very well informed before doing such things also if there's a scene like that or similar to that pratically in every movie instead of a dedicated series , then if by accident someone die (and at this rate of shooting such things that will happen for sure) while doing this , the least that will happen will be to outlaw such thing so another massive recall and editing of almost every movie. If another Gonzales handles that matter the whole industry will be at risk.
Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 7/28/2007 5:01:06 PM
I've notice over the year that you become less sensitized to stuff like this. I used to not like choking at all. Now it's awesome. Sometimes I worry about that. It can be kinda like booze.
