How well do adult DVDs sell?

Author	Post
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 9:45PM I was thinking about this the other day and was curious, how many copies sold is considered a best seller? And how many copies sold is about average? I was reading a book that said you won't see good sales until you get into your 2nd/3rd+ in a series. I'm not exactly sure why but I assume because it gets lost in all the inventory out there. If there are a few in the series to link them altogether it draws in more attention to the group of DVDs. I know in music, selling 1 million CDs is considered a platinum hit. But what would it take for an adult DVD to make best seller status at online adult dvd stores? 100,000 copies sold? And what is the all-time best selling DVD..how many copies were sold? I know that is a reach..since I doubt that info is available. Edited by - leeroy magic on Jul 10 2007 [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 10:34PM There is lots and lots and lots of inventory out there. I can tell you that much. But, I've never heard a definitive answer around number of pieces sold and what type of volume is considered average, good, excellent, etc. I would guess that at the wholesale level, 5,000 sold the first week of release is way above average. But, I would like to hear some real numbers for a representative company like RLD, Anabolic, or ZT. [Link]
JEWEL (imposter) Jewel De'Nyle 736 Posts 1/06	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:20PM 5000 week was happening like 3-4yrs ago now you're going strong when you do 1500 of each title you put out. Edited by - JEWEL on 7/10/2007 11:31:33 PM [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:29PM JEWEL wrote: 5000 week was happeing like 3-4yrs ago now you're going strong when you do 1500 of each title you put out. Click to expand Just to clarify, when you say 1,500, are you referring to per week or consistently at around 6,000 a month. Or is that typically just launch figures with the numbers sold tapering off throughout the year? That still seems like a lot but I could see how coming in below that could hurt. What do you think happened in the last 3-4 years to create the drop like that? I know a lot of people say the internet but the internet has been around for longer than 3-4 years. :) My guess would be online rentals? Edited by - leeroy magic on 7/10/2007 11:37:39 PM [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:49PM Leeroy Magic wrote: Just to clarify, when you say 1,500, are you referring to per week or consistently at around 6,000 a month. Or is that typically just launch figures with the numbers sold tapering off throughout the year? Click to expand I think she means total pieces sold forever and ever. At least that's what I've heard from other industry folks. It's very rare that a studio has to do a reorder after its initial production run. I'm kinda surprised more gonzo studios aren't putting their product out on DVD-Rs due to the relatively low volumes some are able to move. BTW, selling 1500 pieces and getting paid for 1500 pieces shipped are two very different milestones in today's market. [Link]

Mr. B Member 15 Posts 11/05	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 1:38AM What do you think happened in the last 3-4 years to create the drop like that? Click to expand A lot of BAD productions...that's what happened. And I really mean it. It seems like nowadays everyone can shoot porn (ok, gonzo), or so a lot of "directors" think. The reality is that there is massive oversaturation of titles that offer very little in the way of quality acting. Hence the sluggish sales per title. In fact, I have first hand sales-data from one of the large MidWest distributors and what Jewel pointed above is exactly right. Not to blame it all on bad gonzo but...it is a fact that gonzo quite well undermined a quality threshold that existed about 7-8 years ago. [Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User 3735 Posts 10/02	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:01AM It would be interesting to see a breakdown of sales by studio, including residual sales following the first week of a release. I don't see how it's even economically viable to ship only 1500 pieces of a given title. Razor-thin margins I guess is what it comes down to. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:03AM Frankly, I don't think you can leave Piracy out of the equation. It's just unrealistic to think it's not affecting sales at all. And lower sales means less money to work with. Which translates into a lower quality product. And when people get desperate, they will try to churn out a higher volume to pay the bills. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:41AM Drew Black wrote: I think she means total pieces sold forever and ever. At least that's what I've heard from other industry folks. Click to expand Wow that's pretty bad if 1500 units sold can get you on a best seller list. What about landing the all-time best seller lists? I noticed at one large online retail store, these where the all-time bestsellers.... Flashpoint, Award Winning Sex Scenes, Island Fever, Pirates, Island Fever 3, All-Star, All-Time Best Teen, Dream Quest, Virtual Sex With Jenna, Briana Loves Jenna. How many units would you guess you'd have to move to top Flashpoint? :) Edited by - leeroy magic on 7/11/2007 7:42:20 AM [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:45AM Mr. B wrote: Not to blame it all on bad gonzo but...it is a fact that gonzo quite well undermined a quality threshold that existed about 7-8 years ago. Click to expand That's an interesting point. So you feel Gonzo in general has caused it. So in this oversaturated market what stands out to you? Who's doing it right? [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:52AM Leeroy Magic wrote: I noticed at one large online retail store, these where the all-time bestsellers.... Flashpoint, Award Winning Sex Scenes, Island Fever, Pirates, Island Fever 3, All-Star, All-Time Best Teen, Dream Quest, Virtual Sex With Jenna, Briana Loves Jenna. Click to expand Most of those have been out for a few years, have broader appeal than just to a raincoater market, pick up good reviews and in most cases display reasonable production values. The sort of figures being quoted here, which I believe to be true re 1500 copies, makes it all the more incredulous that people think porn is some kind of money making juggernaut. A jizzillion dollar industry! Edited by - hardware on 7/11/2007 12:24:03 PM [Link]
Festus Member Don't let me stop ya. I just likes ta watch. Heh...heh...heh. 95 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 9:51AM It make me sad inside to read on this. I love my porno. And I love the people that take the times to make it with care and lust. It hurt me inside to think they not making millionairings in doing such. I always thought that the producers and the stars got waterfalls of moneys and live in those hot mansion with servants and limos enjoying the good life like a Jules Jordan movie seems. It give me pleasurings to think after I have a big gusher of a comings that all is well with my good porno peoples. Now it not so and this scares me. I buy many films each month and rent many more and have memberships at internet porno sights to. Every night I enjoy them in darkness. It make me feel good to be spendings so much money because I think it all go to let the stars live plush life they have a deservings for. Now I worry for them and for me if the porno stop. Is the good times about to close off? ---- "You cannot blame porn. When I was young, I used to masturbate to Gilligan's Island." Ron Jeremy [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 10:20AM Here's another good topic to read about the economics of porn production. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 12:32PM Drew Black wrote: Here's another good topic to read about the economics of porn production. Click to expand Interesting read but unfortunately the John T. Bone article about "what it takes to start and run a porn production company" is no long working. It's a dead link. :( I did catch the line on.. "How many titles will accually sell-out their 3000 unit run? (from what producers on this board tell me in private, not very many)" So that would indicate 3,000 total sold is a high number over the lifetime of a DVD. That's pretty surprising and sad at the same time. [Link]
OREN Anarchy Films 250 Posts 12/03	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:21PM In this industry you will never get a true answer. I know some companies that say they move 6,000 units. I know it is not true, but they also don't tell you what price it's sold. Some titles will sale less, some will sale more, but I think Jewel hit the target. Average sales in the first week is about 1,500-2,000 units. Which is very respectable. Oren [Link]

Mr. B Member 15 Posts 11/05	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 3:13PM Leeroy Magic wrote: That's an interesting point. So you feel Gonzo in general has caused it. So in this oversaturated market what stands out to you? Who's doing it right? Click to expand No one is doing it right. Once again I have a very close look at sales and Jewel's comment is not too far off what the ACTUAL numbers are. Gonzo, as much as it droved the industry for awhile, has practically killed two aspects that used to be an inseparable part of the market: quality threshold which I already mentioned and bigger sales margins. This leads me to believe that either a) the market will correct itself rather soon and some of the shaky distribs will disappear and b) a new format will prolong the existing status quo (that may happen to be the mass adoption of either BR, more likely, or HD-DVD. Edited by - Mr. B on 7/11/2007 3:14:27 PM [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 3:53PM The porn business today reminds me of the oil business in the early twentieth century. There were so many producers that the bottom fell out. I doubt we can count on the kind of government intervention that stabilized the oil business. However, BushCo might be doing the business a favor by going after JM and Max Hardcore. That should certainly scare producers away, assuming they succeed. PS - I don't agree that gonzo is the issue. Consumer electronics and the internet are what have changed the marketplace. [Link]
henry.black Deactivated User cyberspace 73 Posts 6/06	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 8:28AM I doubt we can count on the kind of government intervention that stabilized the oil business. However, BushCo might be doing the business a favor by going after JM and Max Hardcore. That should certainly scare producers away, assuming they succeed. Click to expand You're kidding right? Max Hardcore is the problem for low sales? And that justifies going after him? You're killing me. [Link]
henry.black Deactivated User cyberspace 73 Posts 6/06	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 9:14AM I would like to know how much an avn-awarded vivid or wicked feature sells compared to a standard gonzo flick from red light or anabolic. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:25AM henry.black wrote: You're kidding right? Max Hardcore is the problem for low sales? And that justifies going after him? Click to expand Yes, Max is to be blamed for all problems, worldwide. We'll never attain world peace while Max is still in business. BTW, did you miss or simply ignore this part of Hardware's post? However, BushCo might be doing the business a favor by going after JM and Max Hardcore. That should certainly scare producers away, assuming they succeed. Click to expand [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:27AM henry.black wrote: I would like to know how much an avn-awarded vivid or wicked feature sells compared to a standard gonzo flick from red light or anabolic. Click to expand 4x - 15x the pieces of your average gonzo release, sometimes more. A feature like Pirates is 50 hex . [Link]
jackthetreacleeater Senior Member Shame on you! 2003 Posts 10/06	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 11:07AM Is it me or is Festus like a Mexican version of Borat? Nothing says romance like anal sex. [Link]
MrFuckinSunshine Member I read your blog you magnificent bastard! 274 Posts 12/05	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 11:53AM Great thread. I noticed the other day that it seems production is way down for most of the big distributors out there. From what I've read, I can see why. It seems like one of the things the industry needs to do is find a way to enforce their copyrights. How they are going to do that, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But, these bit torrent sites have to be cutting into profits significantly. Gene Simmons was on the Rollins Show the other night and as much of a douchebag as he is, he made some good points about how the music industry has suffered because they were never very successful at stopping free downloading. I think the porn industry in in the same fight for their economic lives. They may be even more vulnerable to free downloading since many people are ashamed of their sexual appetites and would much rather download it anonymously than pay for it and have the purchase found out by a family member later. read down to beat weasel's rationalization for free downloading [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 1:19PM henry.black wrote: You're kidding right? Max Hardcore is the problem for low sales? And that justifies going after him? You're killing me. Click to expand I think you overlooked the last sentence of Harware's post: PS - I don't agree that gonzo is the issue. Consumer electronics and the internet are what have changed the marketplace. [Link]
henry.black Deactivated User cyberspace 73 Posts 6/06	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 2:45PM MrFuckinSunshine wrote: Great thread. I noticed the other day that it seems production is way down for most of the big distributors out there. From what I've read, I can see why. It seems like one of the things the industry needs to do is find a way to enforce their copyrights. How they are going to do that, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But, these bit torrent sites have to be cutting into profits significantly. Click to expand I think some movies get more downloads from newsgroups and torrent sites than actual copies sold. For new productions, it seems the amount of people who are going to see the movie for free is almost equal to the amount of people who will pay for it. Edited by - henry.black on 7/12/2007 2:47:55 PM [Link]

Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 2:47PM I'd guess way more see it for free, or at least large portions of it, than those that actually pay to purchase it. If 1500 pieces out the door is considered "good" I bet some movies see that many downloads in a day across the various bitorrent sites. [Link]
HarryWild Member Make me believe 622 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 3:11PM I know that selling 10,000 copy is considered a "BIG HIT!". The biggest selling adult video I think is "A night in Paris" starring Paris Hilton sold over 1 million copies. Following that is the Linda Lovelace movie: "Deep Throat". Please correct this if it is wrong! Thanks. [Link]
Digmen1 Member 629 Posts 7/07	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 4:14PM I am in New Zealand. But surely there must be more than 1,500 Adult shops or DVD video hire shops in the USA and many more than that world wide !and if each one bought one copy of a movie surely that would be much more than 1,500 copies ! Regards Digby [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 5:16PM henry.black wrote: You're kidding right? Max Hardcore is the problem for low sales? And that justifies going after him? Click to expand 1. Lots of people read in the mainstream media about how porn is making a shit-load of money. 2. Many of these people think 'How hard can it be to film sex?' In other words, porn looks like easy money to them. 3. If Max and JM are successfully prosecuted it will be all over the news, and most of these people will have second thoughts about what a good idea a porn career is. In other words, it is the prosecution that is relevant. Who is being prosecuted is only relevant to the extent that they aren't just bit players. 4. Some, perhaps many people who are already in the industry will decide to get out, rather than risk the government taking all their money and throwing them in jail, resulting in more market share for the remaining players. See, that wasn't so hard. [Link]
Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 7:43PM A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn. Bootlegs are more likely to steal revenue. And mainstream media like most mainstream people don't know shit about porn... but they are still pretty sure they do. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 8:58PM Digmen1 wrote: I am in New Zealand. But surely there must be more than 1,500 Adult shops or DVD video hire shops in the USA and many more than that world wide !and if each one bought one copy of a movie surely that would be much more than 1,500 copies ! Regards Digby Click to expand I don't really think there are that many porn shops in the US these days to tell you the truth. The mom and pop stores used to sell porn out of the "back room" but almost all mom and pop shops are gone due to the big video chains and department stores and even supermarkets renting and selling regular movies. So now the only place to buy and/or rent porn movies is a porno shop and there just aren't that many of them across the country these days. Of the ones that are left you have to figure that even on a "big hit" title they aren't going to order more than 4 or 5 copies tops. [Link]
nateglass Member I must break you 201 Posts 12/05	Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:39PM Gunzo wrote: A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn. Bootlegs are more likely to steal revenue. Click to expand You have a good point, when someone who would never pay for porn in the first place downloads a movie, there's no lost revenue in that individual 'transaction'. However, not everyone d/l files is that type of individual. But I often use this line of thinking as my basis for refuting the claims that VOD is going to kill brick-n-mortar stores. The type of person who would rather do VOD probably isn't shopping at the stores anyway, the VOD and DVD customer can often times be 2 different types of customers. Studios should also focus on not giving away so much free stuff on their websites. IMO, that's almost as bad as filesharing if we were to rank these problems. A major problem is bootleg DVDs, either cheap crappy knockoffs, or even more, the professional jobs. In this industry, it's sadly common for a replicator to over replicate a title then sell the excess at cheap rates that de-value a product and steal from the producer. [Link]
Drew Black broken crankshaft 8009 Posts 9/99	Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 12:45AM Gunzo wrote: A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn. Click to expand This makes sense but I disagree with your logic. For most of the internet's public existence the "free porn" was generally limited to photos and brief, poor quality video clips. Think of these free items as teasers for the sites/studios/movies they were ripped from. It could be argued that the presence of these free photos and clips actually stimulated the market in some respects and caused some consumers to seek out online sources to purchase the movies to see the hot chick in the free internet photo actually get fucked in crystal clear video on their television. (Many people would never walk into an adult video store to make a purchase but they would buy a movie online.) With very fast broadband internet connections everywhere these days and torrent sites dominating Google's search results things are different. You can download DVD-quality rips of these movies. No need to purchase them. I bet the number of people consuming porn has doubled or tripled in the past few years but they aren't purchasing it. If they weren't the torrent sites wouldn't be so damn popular. I do think a lot of it boils down to the age of the consumer though. The younger the consumer the more conditioned they are from a young age to assume they can get essentially anything for free from the internet and not think twice about it. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 6:26AM Gunzo wrote: A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn. Bootlegs are more likely to steal revenue. Click to expand I think "free" porn has an effect on DVD sales. On a messageboard I visit regularly (not really a porn site)on occasion a poster will ask where he can buy cheap or certain porn DVDs. Anytime that sort of question is asked there will always be many replies mockingly asking "BUY?!" or "Who buysporn?". I'm sure those kinds of comments make a person feel silly for for buying it and try to get it for nothing. While I understand some people care about quality and will seek out the DVDs many people are willing to put up with crappy quality for the sake of getting it free. Just like music a few years ago where someone was willing to put up with crappy illegal downloads that often skipped and sounded horrible instead of buying the CD. [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 7:10AM Draxxx wrote: almost all mom and pop shops are gone due to the big video chains and department stores and even supermarkets renting and selling regular movies. Click to expand The big problem for porn producers is market-over-saturation, rather than free downloading. I used to live in New York City, Blockbuster is a non-entity, and there are probably 1000 mom-and-pop video stores in that city alone. There may be communities in America where it's hard to find a place to rent porn, but there are communities where stores compete with each other over the size and quality of their porn collections. But even in Greenwich Village (a very porn-friendly community), you may go to ten stores looking for "Rocco: Animal Trainer #23" and still not find it, because no store could possibly carry every title by Rocco, much less Evil Angel, much less the dozens of other companies out there. Let's say some bright young entrepreneur decided to open up a store in Times Square, a block from Port Authority, so all the commuters from New Jersey would pass it on the way home from work, and he were to differentiate himself from the competition by carrying every single DVD on the market. This would be a great value to the customer. "Great, I can watch the whole Animal Trainer Series, and I don't need to go from store to store looking for it." People would rent there, in droves. But he can't afford to buy the inventory. So he goes to the distributors, and he says, "Send me one copy of every DVD you release. I'll pay for it the moment I open the plastic. If a title proves to be popular, I'll purchase more. I'll even put really really popular titles out front, so the customer's will see them when they walk in." He's the Gandhi of porn; the most honest guy who's ever lived, every producer in the porn business knows how honest he is, so they go for it. But the entrepreneur is going broke paying New-York-City-rent for the storeroom. So he decides to rent a warehouse across the river and create an on-line system. Customers get in their orders by 3PM, and the DVD will be waiting for them by 5. Great, but he's still going broke, because, let's face it, he would need a huge warehouse in NJ, and a staff of trained librarians to manage the inventory. Find an obscure title on Adult DVD Talk, then search for it at an on-line rental company. Even with a warehouse out in the middle of nowhere, a company can't stock every title being produced. [Link]

conquistador Deactivated User Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03	Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 7:18AM If you haven't actually seen what you're looking for finding it by title can be nearly impossible. You would actually need a staff of librarians and a damn good system worked out at that. [Link]
Gunzo Senior Member 1377 Posts 2/05	Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 2:35PM Drew Black wrote: You can download DVD-quality rips of these movies. Click to expand But how common is it really? You need to be a hardcore fan of porn to download gonzo (not too hardcore though, cuz then you buy the movies). The torrent sites I've visited lists very few rips like these, mostly compressed full movies. I think you'd need to join a filesharing group or whatever it's called for it to be really efficent. I don't know, I hate the 1337-ism in circles like that. I don't see the point in downloading a movie, skipping through it, jerking off, next time downloading a new movie, skipping through it, jerking off... in that case, wouldn't a tiny little shitty clip do the work just as well? Why burn it to a DVD and store it, then years later finding out that the disc can't even be read no more? Anywho... I think the problem will be solved by Hollywood, they will force ISPs around the world to block the largest filesharing networks regardless of existing rights. [Link]
Leeroy Magic Member 178 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 4:52AM Hardware wrote: However, BushCo might be doing the business a favor by going after JM and Max Hardcore. Click to expand I didn't know they were going after them. Is there a link to this news or a thread? [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14594 Posts 3/02	Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 2:03PM Do a search in Porn News - Press Releases. [Link]
darkside762000 Member United Kingdom 91 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 4:13PM I despise piracy (and I include filesharing in that because it's theft as well), but the industry could really do a little more to get the product into the hands of paying consumers. As a citizen of the UK, I am unable to even browse the adult section of Ebay.com (you need a US registered credit card), and I cannot create a membership at adultdvdmarketplace either (which really pisses me off...there's a ton of reasonably priced stuff on there that I want to buy, not d/l, and I can't do it! ARGGHHH!!!) Also, companies that don't offer VOD need to wake up...if you have a six scene DVD and the customer is only interested in one scene, it's better to get some money for that one scene rather than no money at all. If they can't rationalise buying the whole DVD for just one scene, and they can't get the scene any other way, then odds are that they'll get it off a torrent site. [Link]
codswallop Member 39 Posts 11/06	Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 5:54PM Probably the saturation of the gonzo style which has killed it off. Theres too many volumes of the same themes and literally every gonzo flick I see uses the same tired format and mostly same performers. I'm not surprised theres quite a few old films being re-issued on dvd. Much better and more fun. [Link]
Jerry Hardman New Member Seattle 5 Posts 9/06	Posted - Aug 5 2007 : 10:13PM Consider the notion of the Gonzo genre bringing the whole industry down. First of all, quality level is independant of genre choice. There is quite a bit of excellent quality Gonzo material out there, and there is quite a bit of unwatchable quality Gonzo, which could be said about every genre, so why would a viewer lower their standards to watch poorer quality Gonzo vs. higher quality Gonzo? Besides, before Gonzo became a true genre, there was amateur, and typical amateur material was a hell of a lot poorer quality than typical Gonzo material. Moreover, when the industry was rampant with amateur it was pinned as the culprit that was bringing the industry down that people are describing Gonzo as now. Secondly, if you buy into the argument that Gonzo is characteristically poor quality, the claim that Gonzo degrades the quality standards of the industry as a whole implies that customers don't know the difference between good and poor quality products. Some buyers don't, which explains why some of these websites that sell fuzzy, pixelated, choppy, low res streams where you can hardly tell the difference between an ass and a set of tits seem to thrive and grow amidst the competition, but let's blame that on the media and reality TV where they're fed so much lies and scripted drama under the pretense of documentation that they can't tell the difference between what's real or fake anymore. Anyway, Gonzo only brings the rest of the industry down in terms of the choice that it offers viewers; the ability to spend their money on titles of one genre vs. titles of another genre. If a customer prefers Gonzo, it's based on their choice. The capitalist system is meant to emphasize choice in part by breeding competition. In a competitive system low quality is no perfect substitute for high quality, therefore competitors are forced to stay on top by increasing quality standards, which means that studios producing poor quality Gonzo won't be able to compete. Edited by - Jerry Hardman on 8/6/2007 3:17:32 AM [Link]
sam46 Deactivated User 564 Posts 1/07	Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 4:42PM We could use some new creative directors, getting very stale. Rarely does the flick match the cover. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:11PM Drew Black wrote: I'm kinda surprised more gonzo studios aren't putting their product out on DVD-Rs due to the relatively low volumes some are able to move. Click to expand I don't think that would be wise. Me the customer wants a real DVD and a nice cover. Drew Black wrote: BTW, selling 1500 pieces and getting paid for 1500 pieces shipped are two very different milestones in today's market. Click to expand Please explain. Edited by - juha on 9/18/2007 6:12:44 PM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:33PM Are there any numbers on differences between Gonzo and Feature piracy? I would guess that Gonzo sales are much stronger affected by online piracy than Feature porn. Edited by - juha on 9/18/2007 6:34:59 PM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:46PM Gunzo wrote: A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Click to expand No offence. But this sounds like a pretty lame excuse to me. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:48PM Leeroy Magic wrote: I was thinking about this the other day and was curious, how many copies sold is considered a best seller? And how many copies sold is about average? Click to expand I read that the average Club Jenna release sells 50 000 copies. Don't know if its true. Probably the all-time bestseller is Wicked's FLASHPOINT. [Link]
Learned Hand Member 175 Posts 2/06	Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 4:07AM Gunzo wrote: A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn. Click to expand Well, that may be the attitude of many young people these days, but take away their internet, and they would be plenty willing to pay. The presence of a wide world of piracy and free porn of various types has certainly eroded the market for porn you actually have to pay for. The idea that there are a large number of men who would just inherently never pay for porn is ludicrous. It is solely the availability of free porn and easy to steal porn on the net that makes this attitude possible. In the absence of this ocean of free porn in which we swim, all these men would be paying for porn, just like their fathers and their fathers' fathers ad infinitum. It may be that the problems porn is having is just the result of a generational shift. Young people won't buy porn just like they don't buy music. Porn producers suffer just as music producers are suffering. Perhaps we need a new generational label. Nobody likes "Generation Y" anyway right? Baby Boomers Generation X The Thieves [Link]
Flying Circus New Member 3 Posts 9/07	Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 7:09PM "Let's say some bright young entrepreneur decided to open up a store in Times Square, a block from Port Authority, so all the commuters from New Jersey would pass it on the way home from work, and he were to differentiate himself from the competition by carrying every single DVD on the market. This would be a great value to the customer. "Great, I can watch the whole Animal Trainer Series, and I don't need to go from store to store looking for it." People would rent there, in droves." There is such a store that may not have every single title ever made, but has a tremendous selection of releases from many, many different production companies (although they don't rent). They have expanded several times over the years. I cannot even estimate how many thousands of DVD's they have. They also have the cheapest prices in the area, they seem to make their money on volume of sales (the store can be crowded). I hope I am not out of line giving this store a free plug. I have no interest in the store whatsoever except that I have been a loyal customer for years. In my opinion, no other store comes close in terms of selection and prices (they also give a discount when you pay cash). It is called 300 dvd center, and is located down the stairs in the times square subway entrance on W 40th st on the SW corner of 8th ave (next to the Chase bank on the corner). I think if there were more stores like this one it would help overall dvd sales. Most stores in the NY area have much higher markups. Huge selection and cheap prices make you feel like you're getting a deal. I always end up buying more dvd's than I planned when shopping there. Just my 2 cents. I hope I am not out of line plugging this store, but it it is a good store for the dvd industry (and the porn enthusiast)in my opinion. [Link]

Author

Post

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 9:45PM

I was thinking about this the other day and was curious, how many copies sold is considered a best seller? And how many copies sold is about average?
I was reading a book that said you won't see good sales until you get into your 2nd/3rd+ in a series. I'm not exactly sure why but I assume because it gets lost in all the inventory out there. If there are a few in the series to link them altogether it draws in more attention to the group of DVDs.
I know in music, selling 1 million CDs is considered a platinum hit. But what would it take for an adult DVD to make best seller status at online adult dvd stores? 100,000 copies sold?
And what is the all-time best selling DVD..how many copies were sold? I know that is a reach..since I doubt that info is available.
Edited by - leeroy magic on Jul 10 2007

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 10:34PM

There is lots and lots and lots of inventory out there. I can tell you that much.
But, I've never heard a definitive answer around number of pieces sold and what type of volume is considered average, good, excellent, etc.
I would guess that at the wholesale level, 5,000 sold the first week of release is way above average. But, I would like to hear some real numbers for a representative company like RLD, Anabolic, or ZT.

[Link]

JEWEL (imposter)
Jewel De'Nyle

736 Posts
1/06

Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:20PM

5000 week was happening like 3-4yrs ago now you're going strong when you do 1500 of each title you put out.
Edited by - JEWEL on 7/10/2007 11:31:33 PM

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:29PM

Just to clarify, when you say 1,500, are you referring to per week or consistently at around 6,000 a month. Or is that typically just launch figures with the numbers sold tapering off throughout the year? That still seems like a lot but I could see how coming in below that could hurt.
What do you think happened in the last 3-4 years to create the drop like that?
I know a lot of people say the internet but the internet has been around for longer than 3-4 years. :)
My guess would be online rentals?
Edited by - leeroy magic on 7/10/2007 11:37:39 PM

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 11:49PM

I think she means total pieces sold forever and ever. At least that's what I've heard from other industry folks. It's very rare that a studio has to do a reorder after its initial production run. I'm kinda surprised more gonzo studios aren't putting their product out on DVD-Rs due to the relatively low volumes some are able to move.
BTW, selling 1500 pieces and getting paid for 1500 pieces shipped are two very different milestones in today's market.

[Link]

Mr. B
Member

15 Posts
11/05

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 1:38AM

A lot of BAD productions...that's what happened. And I really mean it. It seems like nowadays everyone can shoot porn (ok, gonzo), or so a lot of "directors" think. The reality is that there is massive oversaturation of titles that offer very little in the way of quality acting. Hence the sluggish sales per title. In fact, I have first hand sales-data from one of the large MidWest distributors and what Jewel pointed above is exactly right.
Not to blame it all on bad gonzo but...it is a fact that gonzo quite well undermined a quality threshold that existed about 7-8 years ago.

[Link]

Porn Scout
Deactivated User

3735 Posts
10/02

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:01AM

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of sales by studio, including residual sales following the first week of a release.
I don't see how it's even economically viable to ship only 1500 pieces of a given title. Razor-thin margins I guess is what it comes down to.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:03AM

Frankly, I don't think you can leave Piracy out of the equation. It's just unrealistic to think it's not affecting sales at all. And lower sales means less money to work with. Which translates into a lower quality product. And when people get desperate, they will try to churn out a higher volume to pay the bills.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:41AM

Wow that's pretty bad if 1500 units sold can get you on a best seller list. What about landing the all-time best seller lists?
I noticed at one large online retail store, these where the all-time bestsellers....
Flashpoint, Award Winning Sex Scenes, Island Fever, Pirates, Island Fever 3, All-Star, All-Time Best Teen, Dream Quest, Virtual Sex With Jenna, Briana Loves Jenna.

How many units would you guess you'd have to move to top Flashpoint? :)
Edited by - leeroy magic on 7/11/2007 7:42:20 AM

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:45AM

That's an interesting point. So you feel Gonzo in general has caused it. So in this oversaturated market what stands out to you? Who's doing it right?

[Link]

Loraine
Senior Member

1559 Posts
3/04

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 7:52AM

Most of those have been out for a few years, have broader appeal than just to a raincoater market, pick up good reviews and in most cases display reasonable production values.
The sort of figures being quoted here, which I believe to be true re 1500 copies, makes it all the more incredulous that people think porn is some kind of money making juggernaut. A jizzillion dollar industry!
Edited by - hardware on 7/11/2007 12:24:03 PM

[Link]

Festus
Member

Don't let me stop ya. I just likes ta watch. Heh...heh...heh.
95 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 9:51AM

It make me sad inside to read on this.
I love my porno. And I love the people that take the times to make it with care and lust.
It hurt me inside to think they not making millionairings in doing such. I always thought that the producers and the stars got waterfalls of moneys and live in those hot mansion with servants and limos enjoying the good life like a Jules Jordan movie seems.
It give me pleasurings to think after I have a big gusher of a comings that all is well with my good porno peoples. Now it not so and this scares me.
I buy many films each month and rent many more and have memberships at internet porno sights to. Every night I enjoy them in darkness.
It make me feel good to be spendings so much money because I think it all go to let the stars live plush life they have a deservings for. Now I worry for them and for me if the porno stop.
Is the good times about to close off?

---- "You cannot blame porn. When I was young, I used to masturbate to Gilligan's Island." Ron Jeremy

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 10:20AM

Here's another good topic to read about the economics of porn production.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 12:32PM

Interesting read but unfortunately the John T. Bone article about "what it takes to start and run a porn production company" is no long working.
It's a dead link. :(
I did catch the line on..
"How many titles will accually sell-out their 3000 unit run? (from what producers on this board tell me in private, not very many)"
So that would indicate 3,000 total sold is a high number over the lifetime of a DVD. That's pretty surprising and sad at the same time.

[Link]

OREN
Anarchy Films

250 Posts
12/03

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 2:21PM

In this industry you will never get a true answer. I know some companies that say they move 6,000 units. I know it is not true, but they also don't tell you what price it's sold. Some titles will sale less, some will sale more, but I think Jewel hit the target. Average sales in the first week is about 1,500-2,000 units. Which is very respectable.
Oren

[Link]

Mr. B
Member

15 Posts
11/05

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 3:13PM

No one is doing it right. Once again I have a very close look at sales and Jewel's comment is not too far off what the ACTUAL numbers are.
Gonzo, as much as it droved the industry for awhile, has practically killed two aspects that used to be an inseparable part of the market: quality threshold which I already mentioned and bigger sales margins. This leads me to believe that either a) the market will correct itself rather soon and some of the shaky distribs will disappear and b) a new format will prolong the existing status quo (that may happen to be the mass adoption of either BR, more likely, or HD-DVD.
Edited by - Mr. B on 7/11/2007 3:14:27 PM

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 3:53PM

The porn business today reminds me of the oil business in the early twentieth century. There were so many producers that the bottom fell out.
I doubt we can count on the kind of government intervention that stabilized the oil business. However, BushCo might be doing the business a favor by going after JM and Max Hardcore. That should certainly scare producers away, assuming they succeed.
PS - I don't agree that gonzo is the issue. Consumer electronics and the internet are what have changed the marketplace.

[Link]

henry.black
Deactivated User

cyberspace
73 Posts
6/06

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 8:28AM

You're kidding right? Max Hardcore is the problem for low sales? And that justifies going after him?
You're killing me.

[Link]

henry.black
Deactivated User

cyberspace
73 Posts
6/06

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 9:14AM

I would like to know how much an avn-awarded vivid or wicked feature sells compared to a standard gonzo flick from red light or anabolic.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:25AM

Yes, Max is to be blamed for all problems, worldwide. We'll never attain world peace while Max is still in business.
BTW, did you miss or simply ignore this part of Hardware's post?

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:27AM

4x - 15x the pieces of your average gonzo release, sometimes more. A feature like Pirates is 50 hex .

[Link]

jackthetreacleeater
Senior Member

Shame on you!
2003 Posts
10/06

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 11:07AM

Is it me or is Festus like a Mexican version of Borat?
Nothing says romance like anal sex.

[Link]

MrFuckinSunshine
Member

I read your blog you magnificent bastard!
274 Posts
12/05

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 11:53AM

Great thread. I noticed the other day that it seems production is way down for most of the big distributors out there. From what I've read, I can see why. It seems like one of the things the industry needs to do is find a way to enforce their copyrights. How they are going to do that, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But, these bit torrent sites have to be cutting into profits significantly.
Gene Simmons was on the Rollins Show the other night and as much of a douchebag as he is, he made some good points about how the music industry has suffered because they were never very successful at stopping free downloading. I think the porn industry in in the same fight for their economic lives. They may be even more vulnerable to free downloading since many people are ashamed of their sexual appetites and would much rather download it anonymously than pay for it and have the purchase found out by a family member later.
read down to beat weasel's rationalization for free downloading

[Link]

Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 1:19PM

I think you overlooked the last sentence of Harware's post:
PS - I don't agree that gonzo is the issue. Consumer electronics and the internet are what have changed the marketplace.

[Link]

henry.black
Deactivated User

cyberspace
73 Posts
6/06

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 2:45PM

I think some movies get more downloads from newsgroups and torrent sites than actual copies sold.
For new productions, it seems the amount of people who are going to see the movie for free is almost equal to the amount of people who will pay for it.
Edited by - henry.black on 7/12/2007 2:47:55 PM

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 2:47PM

I'd guess way more see it for free, or at least large portions of it, than those that actually pay to purchase it. If 1500 pieces out the door is considered "good" I bet some movies see that many downloads in a day across the various bitorrent sites.

[Link]

HarryWild
Member

Make me believe
622 Posts
2/05

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 3:11PM

I know that selling 10,000 copy is considered a "BIG HIT!".
The biggest selling adult video I think is "A night in Paris" starring Paris Hilton sold over 1 million copies.
Following that is the Linda Lovelace movie: "Deep Throat".
Please correct this if it is wrong! Thanks.

[Link]

Digmen1
Member

629 Posts
7/07

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 4:14PM

I am in New Zealand.
But surely there must be more than 1,500 Adult shops or DVD video hire shops in the USA and many more than that world wide !and if each one bought one copy of a movie surely that would be much more than 1,500 copies !
Regards
Digby

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 5:16PM

1. Lots of people read in the mainstream media about how porn is making a shit-load of money.
2. Many of these people think 'How hard can it be to film sex?' In other words, porn looks like easy money to them.
3. If Max and JM are successfully prosecuted it will be all over the news, and most of these people will have second thoughts about what a good idea a porn career is. In other words, it is the prosecution that is relevant. Who is being prosecuted is only relevant to the extent that they aren't just bit players.
4. Some, perhaps many people who are already in the industry will decide to get out, rather than risk the government taking all their money and throwing them in jail, resulting in more market share for the remaining players.
See, that wasn't so hard.

[Link]

Gunzo
Senior Member

1377 Posts
2/05

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 7:43PM

A lot of people would never actually PAY for porn, so I don't think filesharing is a very big issue here. Most people seem to think it's simply weird to pay for porn when the internet was created for finding free porn.
Bootlegs are more likely to steal revenue.
And mainstream media like most mainstream people don't know shit about porn... but they are still pretty sure they do.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 8:58PM

I don't really think there are that many porn shops in the US these days to tell you the truth. The mom and pop stores used to sell porn out of the "back room" but almost all mom and pop shops are gone due to the big video chains and department stores and even supermarkets renting and selling regular movies. So now the only place to buy and/or rent porn movies is a porno shop and there just aren't that many of them across the country these days. Of the ones that are left you have to figure that even on a "big hit" title they aren't going to order more than 4 or 5 copies tops.

[Link]

nateglass
Member

I must break you
201 Posts
12/05

Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:39PM

You have a good point, when someone who would never pay for porn in the first place downloads a movie, there's no lost revenue in that individual 'transaction'. However, not everyone d/l files is that type of individual. But I often use this line of thinking as my basis for refuting the claims that VOD is going to kill brick-n-mortar stores. The type of person who would rather do VOD probably isn't shopping at the stores anyway, the VOD and DVD customer can often times be 2 different types of customers.
Studios should also focus on not giving away so much free stuff on their websites. IMO, that's almost as bad as filesharing if we were to rank these problems.
A major problem is bootleg DVDs, either cheap crappy knockoffs, or even more, the professional jobs. In this industry, it's sadly common for a replicator to over replicate a title then sell the excess at cheap rates that de-value a product and steal from the producer.

[Link]

Drew Black
broken crankshaft

8009 Posts
9/99

Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 12:45AM

This makes sense but I disagree with your logic. For most of the internet's public existence the "free porn" was generally limited to photos and brief, poor quality video clips. Think of these free items as teasers for the sites/studios/movies they were ripped from. It could be argued that the presence of these free photos and clips actually stimulated the market in some respects and caused some consumers to seek out online sources to purchase the movies to see the hot chick in the free internet photo actually get fucked in crystal clear video on their television. (Many people would never walk into an adult video store to make a purchase but they would buy a movie online.)
With very fast broadband internet connections everywhere these days and torrent sites dominating Google's search results things are different. You can download DVD-quality rips of these movies. No need to purchase them. I bet the number of people consuming porn has doubled or tripled in the past few years but they aren't purchasing it. If they weren't the torrent sites wouldn't be so damn popular.
I do think a lot of it boils down to the age of the consumer though. The younger the consumer the more conditioned they are from a young age to assume they can get essentially anything for free from the internet and not think twice about it.

[Link]

Draxxx
Senior Member

3831 Posts
2/07

Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 6:26AM

I think "free" porn has an effect on DVD sales. On a messageboard I visit regularly (not really a porn site)on occasion a poster will ask where he can buy cheap or certain porn DVDs. Anytime that sort of question is asked there will always be many replies mockingly asking "BUY?!" or "Who buysporn?". I'm sure those kinds of comments make a person feel silly for for buying it and try to get it for nothing. While I understand some people care about quality and will seek out the DVDs many people are willing to put up with crappy quality for the sake of getting it free. Just like music a few years ago where someone was willing to put up with crappy illegal downloads that often skipped and sounded horrible instead of buying the CD.

[Link]

SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 7:10AM

The big problem for porn producers is market-over-saturation, rather than free downloading.
I used to live in New York City, Blockbuster is a non-entity, and there are probably 1000 mom-and-pop video stores in that city alone. There may be communities in America where it's hard to find a place to rent porn, but there are communities where stores compete with each other over the size and quality of their porn collections. But even in Greenwich Village (a very porn-friendly community), you may go to ten stores looking for "Rocco: Animal Trainer #23" and still not find it, because no store could possibly carry every title by Rocco, much less Evil Angel, much less the dozens of other companies out there.
Let's say some bright young entrepreneur decided to open up a store in Times Square, a block from Port Authority, so all the commuters from New Jersey would pass it on the way home from work, and he were to differentiate himself from the competition by carrying every single DVD on the market. This would be a great value to the customer. "Great, I can watch the whole Animal Trainer Series, and I don't need to go from store to store looking for it." People would rent there, in droves.
But he can't afford to buy the inventory. So he goes to the distributors, and he says, "Send me one copy of every DVD you release. I'll pay for it the moment I open the plastic. If a title proves to be popular, I'll purchase more. I'll even put really really popular titles out front, so the customer's will see them when they walk in." He's the Gandhi of porn; the most honest guy who's ever lived, every producer in the porn business knows how honest he is, so they go for it.
But the entrepreneur is going broke paying New-York-City-rent for the storeroom. So he decides to rent a warehouse across the river and create an on-line system. Customers get in their orders by 3PM, and the DVD will be waiting for them by 5. Great, but he's still going broke, because, let's face it, he would need a huge warehouse in NJ, and a staff of trained librarians to manage the inventory.
Find an obscure title on Adult DVD Talk, then search for it at an on-line rental company. Even with a warehouse out in the middle of nowhere, a company can't stock every title being produced.

[Link]

conquistador
Deactivated User

Hellhamster.
2947 Posts
10/03

Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 7:18AM

If you haven't actually *seen* what you're looking for finding it by title can be nearly impossible.
You would actually need a staff of librarians and a damn good system worked out at that.

[Link]

Gunzo
Senior Member

1377 Posts
2/05

Posted - Jul 13 2007 : 2:35PM

But how common is it really? You need to be a hardcore fan of porn to download gonzo (not too hardcore though, cuz then you buy the movies). The torrent sites I've visited lists very few rips like these, mostly compressed full movies. I think you'd need to join a filesharing group or whatever it's called for it to be really efficent. I don't know, I hate the 1337-ism in circles like that.
I don't see the point in downloading a movie, skipping through it, jerking off, next time downloading a new movie, skipping through it, jerking off... in that case, wouldn't a tiny little shitty clip do the work just as well? Why burn it to a DVD and store it, then years later finding out that the disc can't even be read no more?
Anywho... I think the problem will be solved by Hollywood, they will force ISPs around the world to block the largest filesharing networks regardless of existing rights.

[Link]

Leeroy Magic
Member

178 Posts
6/07

Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 4:52AM

I didn't know they were going after them. Is there a link to this news or a thread?

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14594 Posts
3/02

Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 2:03PM

Do a search in Porn News - Press Releases.

[Link]

darkside762000
Member

United Kingdom
91 Posts
3/06

Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 4:13PM

I despise piracy (and I include filesharing in that because it's theft as well), but the industry could really do a little more to get the product into the hands of paying consumers.
As a citizen of the UK, I am unable to even browse the adult section of Ebay.com (you need a US registered credit card), and I cannot create a membership at adultdvdmarketplace either (which really pisses me off...there's a ton of reasonably priced stuff on there that I want to buy, not d/l, and I can't do it! ARGGHHH!!!)
Also, companies that don't offer VOD need to wake up...if you have a six scene DVD and the customer is only interested in one scene, it's better to get some money for that one scene rather than no money at all. If they can't rationalise buying the whole DVD for just one scene, and they can't get the scene any other way, then odds are that they'll get it off a torrent site.

[Link]

codswallop
Member

39 Posts
11/06

Posted - Jul 16 2007 : 5:54PM

Probably the saturation of the gonzo style which has killed it off. Theres too many volumes of the same themes and literally every gonzo flick I see uses the same tired format and mostly same performers. I'm not surprised theres quite a few old films being re-issued on dvd. Much better and more fun.

[Link]

Jerry Hardman
New Member

Seattle
5 Posts
9/06

Posted - Aug 5 2007 : 10:13PM

Consider the notion of the Gonzo genre bringing the whole industry down.
First of all, quality level is independant of genre choice. There is quite a bit of excellent quality Gonzo material out there, and there is quite a bit of unwatchable quality Gonzo, which could be said about every genre, so why would a viewer lower their standards to watch poorer quality Gonzo vs. higher quality Gonzo? Besides, before Gonzo became a true genre, there was amateur, and typical amateur material was a hell of a lot poorer quality than typical Gonzo material. Moreover, when the industry was rampant with amateur it was pinned as the culprit that was bringing the industry down that people are describing Gonzo as now.
Secondly, if you buy into the argument that Gonzo is characteristically poor quality, the claim that Gonzo degrades the quality standards of the industry as a whole implies that customers don't know the difference between good and poor quality products. Some buyers don't, which explains why some of these websites that sell fuzzy, pixelated, choppy, low res streams where you can hardly tell the difference between an ass and a set of tits seem to thrive and grow amidst the competition, but let's blame that on the media and reality TV where they're fed so much lies and scripted drama under the pretense of documentation that they can't tell the difference between what's real or fake anymore.
Anyway, Gonzo only brings the rest of the industry down in terms of the choice that it offers viewers; the ability to spend their money on titles of one genre vs. titles of another genre. If a customer prefers Gonzo, it's based on their choice. The capitalist system is meant to emphasize choice in part by breeding competition. In a competitive system low quality is no perfect substitute for high quality, therefore competitors are forced to stay on top by increasing quality standards, which means that studios producing poor quality Gonzo won't be able to compete.
Edited by - Jerry Hardman on 8/6/2007 3:17:32 AM

[Link]

sam46
Deactivated User

564 Posts
1/07

Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 4:42PM

We could use some new creative directors, getting very stale. Rarely does the flick match the cover.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:11PM

I don't think that would be wise.
Me the customer wants a real DVD and a nice cover.

Please explain.
Edited by - juha on 9/18/2007 6:12:44 PM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:33PM

Are there any numbers on differences between Gonzo and Feature piracy?
I would guess that Gonzo sales are much stronger affected by online piracy than Feature porn.
Edited by - juha on 9/18/2007 6:34:59 PM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:46PM

No offence. But this sounds like a pretty lame excuse to me.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Sep 18 2007 : 6:48PM

I read that the average Club Jenna release sells 50 000 copies.
Don't know if its true.
Probably the all-time bestseller is Wicked's FLASHPOINT.

[Link]

Learned Hand
Member

175 Posts
2/06

Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 4:07AM

Well, that may be the attitude of many young people these days, but take away their internet, and they would be plenty willing to pay. The presence of a wide world of piracy and free porn of various types has certainly eroded the market for porn you actually have to pay for.
The idea that there are a large number of men who would just inherently never pay for porn is ludicrous. It is solely the availability of free porn and easy to steal porn on the net that makes this attitude possible. In the absence of this ocean of free porn in which we swim, all these men would be paying for porn, just like their fathers and their fathers' fathers ad infinitum.
It may be that the problems porn is having is just the result of a generational shift. Young people won't buy porn just like they don't buy music. Porn producers suffer just as music producers are suffering.
Perhaps we need a new generational label. Nobody likes "Generation Y" anyway right?
Baby Boomers
Generation X
The Thieves

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Flying Circus
New Member

3 Posts
9/07

Posted - Sep 27 2007 : 7:09PM

"Let's say some bright young entrepreneur decided to open up a store in Times Square, a block from Port Authority, so all the commuters from New Jersey would pass it on the way home from work, and he were to differentiate himself from the competition by carrying every single DVD on the market. This would be a great value to the customer. "Great, I can watch the whole Animal Trainer Series, and I don't need to go from store to store looking for it." People would rent there, in droves."
There is such a store that may not have every single title ever made, but has a tremendous selection of releases from many, many different production companies (although they don't rent). They have expanded several times over the years. I cannot even estimate how many thousands of DVD's they have. They also have the cheapest prices in the area, they seem to make their money on volume of sales (the store can be crowded). I hope I am not out of line giving this store a free plug. I have no interest in the store whatsoever except that I have been a loyal customer for years. In my opinion, no other store comes close in terms of selection and prices (they also give a discount when you pay cash). It is called 300 dvd center, and is located down the stairs in the times square subway entrance on W 40th st on the SW corner of 8th ave (next to the Chase bank on the corner).
I think if there were more stores like this one it would help overall dvd sales. Most stores in the NY area have much higher markups. Huge selection and cheap prices make you feel like you're getting a deal. I always end up buying more dvd's than I planned when shopping there.
Just my 2 cents. I hope I am not out of line plugging this store, but it it is a good store for the dvd industry (and the porn enthusiast)in my opinion.

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