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| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 |  Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 6:02AMA physically average 33 year heterosexual married woman in England voluntarily attained a cosmetic clitoridectomy (nearly complete clitoris surgical removal) from an accredited physician after an earlier surgery of a cosmetic labiaplasty (reduction by trimming the labia minors)! Her labia minors were also, normal before surgery. She reported that she retained orgasm capability when stimulated in her vagina's g-spot by her husband after the clitoris removal! She denied that she was being coerced towards surgery or that any sadomasochism was involved. She stated, "she was dissatisfied with her clitoris normal appearance from puberty believing it to be unattractive". She waited until after she had given birth to two children to have the surgery because, privacy issues with the obstetrics operating room team. The psychiatrist that gave her a pre-operative evaluation didn't consider her desire for the cosmetic clitoridectomy to be Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) but, body modification! This woman has a college degree and obviously she felt the surgery gives her greater feminine empowerment. Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on Dec 2 2012 [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 10:19AM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 11:05AM Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/2/2012 12:27:30 PM [Link] |
Hardware  All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 1:09PM Experimental research and development in all these fields is necessary to technologically evolve to improve humanity... Humanity is not going to be 'improved' by cosmetic surgery, but perhaps we have a language issue. At any rate, the value in cosmetic surgery is in repairing debilitating deformities and gross physical trauma. On the face of it, a larger than average labia and clitoris don't seem to qualify. Rather, it sounds like this woman has body-image issues. Obsessives tend to obsess, so if you take away one issue they'll just find another. Obsessives are much better off treating the root of their disorder, which is psychological, not physical. Women should have the choice of cosmetic clitoridectomy if they think it's an improvement and the benefits do outweigh the risk! Obviously, they do have that choice, but it is highly questionable whether said benefits do outweigh the risks. Since there is no unbiased group to serve as a control, you've really got nothing in the way of proof. [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 1:58PM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 2:31PM perhaps we have a language issue. On the face of it, a larger than average labia and clitoris don't seem to qualify as a repairing debilitating deformities or gross trauma. Non_MD_Futurist stated: Call it reconstructive plastic surgery instead of cosmetic surgery. This woman was physically normal but, probably considered her genitalia that of an inter-sex (which admittedly is my own diagnostic interpretation)! She was determined to be psychologically well balanced by an accredited psychiatrist in his preoperative surgery evaluation. I have a thorough list of the all test. Body modification and not Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) was his conclusion! Body modification examples are generally tattoos and piercings... I think you extremely under-estimate the psychological trauma caused by being classified an physical inter-sex! Non_MD_Futurist stated: Women should have the choice of cosmetic clitoridectomy if they think it's an improvement and the benefits do outweigh the risk! Hardware stated: Obviously, they do have that choice, but it is highly questionable whether said benefits do outweigh the risks. Since there is no unbiased group to serve as a control, you've really got nothing in the way of proof. Non_MD_Futurist stated: The English woman was the first and only case in an recent, modern medically technological advance culture or nation! There are multitudes of cases in the third world nations as Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)! Many of women and men in those primitive countries consider women clitoridectomy recipients physically normal but, are classifying them often as physical inter-sexes. The "inter-sex motive" I think is predominantly the same as the modern English woman mentioned in this thread (which admittedly is my own diagnostic interpretation)! More thorough investigation on researchers part is necessary for this isn't as an overly simplified motive of sexual repression in those third world countries. I believe the motives are often currently greatly misinterpreted by researchers why these people are performing clitoridectomy! realtip stated: female equivalent of circumcision Non_MD_Futurist stated: This thread isn't about female circumcision but near complete surgical removal of the clitoris. Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/2/2012 5:14:22 PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 2:40PM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 2:55PM Isn't it the same thing? Non_MD_Futurist stated: There are different types or categories of clitoridectomy. [Link] |
| lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 4:12PM Realtip said:Male circumcision is debated all the time. There are threads on it here, threads on the amazon.com board, and pretty much all the other active general types of forums. [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 5:17PM It's ridiculous on all levels 1). Do no harm doesn't mean do stupid unnecessary surgeries that have significant risks during surgery (post-op and during surgery/anesthesia). 2). The health care field has limited resources (facilities, beds, clinicians...) and taxed in many places. To do this, could be taking away resources from someone who needs real help. For example, Doc/Nurse: "Mr. John Doe, we only have 2 surgical suites and there's an emergency aortic repair in one and cosmetic clitoridectomy in the other, so you'll have to wait for the clit removal surgery. I know your appendicitis could burst cause massive sepsis/septic shock/death, but you'll have to wait." 3). Just cause a patient wants a medical/surgical procedure, doctors and surgeons are tied to professional ethics, guidelines, and state/federal regulations, which means, a doctor doesn't do anything the patient wants, there has to be a clear medical benefit to justify the risks. 4). Is there significant medical evidence that removing the clit helps at all, especially long term? Removing an organ is a big deal and permanent with permanent consequences. I'm guessing there's no longitudinal studies on this. [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 6:20PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 7:35PM And just because it's debated doesn't indicate equal levels of social disapproval. After all, which one is illegal, and which one is commonplace? [Link] |
| lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 8:20PM [Link] |
| realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04 | Posted - Dec 2 2012 : 8:27PM Edited by - realtip on 12/2/2012 8:28:20 PM [Link] |
| lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 1:17AM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 6:25AM There are no medical benefits, it's cosmetic ridiculous surgery that embryonically (the penis is the clit embryonically speaking and hood is foreskin). Non_MD_Futurist: 1) If you are satisfied with being a bi-sexual that is attracted to adult alleged female clitorises that resemble male young children's penises in size and structure, that is ridiculous to me! Experimental g-spotplasty operations could possibly originate from clitoris surgery (root/corpus cavernsum repositioning only), that could enhance those women that have an inefficient vagina's g-spot arousal reflex (My own personal theory - no b/s)! 2) It's ridiculous for you to think we'er living a society with some vast hospital bed shortage! I live in an America were most plastic surgeons are greedy! The majority have situational ethics when it comes to making a buck... 3) You must think your opinion should override the accredited psychiatrist preoperative evaluation and plastic surgeon that performed the English women's clitoridectomy! I doubt you have a medical degree to say what is necessary or what is truly medically unethical. 4) My username advertised stated I'm not an M.D. but, most if not all of the guys on this website have the psych profiles of bi-sexual pedophiles! I mean the pedophilia medical definition, not the legal definition of an adult having sexual relations with a minor! 5) Women should have the choice of cosmetic clitoridectomy if the benefits outweigh the risk! Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/6/2012 1:39:23 PM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 8:15AM Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond. Think before posting. Trolling (baiting people by intentionally posting inflammatory messages) or incessantly harping on an issue/person will lead to the deactivation of your account. BYOB_Kenobi Stated: 1) Totally against surgical professional "Do no harm". And the risks outweighed the benefits tremendously. 2) Do no harm doesn't mean do stupid unnecessary surgeries that have significant risks during surgery (post-op and during surgery/anesthesia). Non_MD_Futurist stated: I would call that ^ harping! Some Senior Members think the Adult DVD Talk Etiquette Policy doesn't apply to them for they think themselves specially privileged! Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/5/2012 11:15:22 PM [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 10:35AM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 10:49AM Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/6/2012 2:33:53 AM [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 7:07PM If my opinion is contrary to yours, I don't know what to tell you, but claiming that I violated ADT terms/etiquette just cause you didn't like my opinion isn't applicable. You posted a experimental and controversial surgical procedure. You have to expect opinions criticizing the procedure (which I provided medical/surgical/health care merit). [Link] |
| BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 7:18PM Hospitals don't have unlimited ORs, surgeons, anesthesiologists, surgical nurses/assistants.... For #2, this is a long time problem in US and growing. Many plastic surgeries/surgeons who prey on insecurities of people for procedures with no physiological/anti-pathological benefit, but significant risks, who make extremely lucrative salaries/benefits. Even worse is there is a doctor shortage in US and has been (if you don't believe me, look it up) and big shortage of General Surgeons. So pardon me if I don't subscribe to medical students specializing in plastic surgery, when there are many shortages in other specialties with greater need and more beneficial medically or surgically. [Link] |
| Redish Poetic Moderator Long and Cursive road to the Ivory Pagoda in the province of Loraine 4076 Posts 12/03 | Posted - Dec 3 2012 : 8:58PM And everybody already knows is the moderators are special around here. [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 4 2012 : 11:32AM pardon me if I don't subscribe to medical students specializing in plastic surgery Non_MD_Futurist stated: Plastic (cosmetic and reconstructive) surgery is a necessary practical speciality field! Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/6/2012 2:00:05 PM [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Dec 4 2012 : 12:34PM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 4 2012 : 1:11PM Do you watch porn much? Seen all those not-very-good boob jobs? That's the result of medical students specializing in plastic surgery because of the money it brings in. BYOB_Kenobi is absolutely correct in suggesting that we, as a society, don't want to encourage a medical profession that supports that kind of behavior. Non_MD_Futurist stated: I have subscribed to fee based porn websites consistently since 2007. I prefer photo set downloading for customized photo retouching with Photoshop professional version, for my experimental prototype anthropometry (mathematical measurement of women) hobby! I agree with you about the botched boob jobs being pathetic incompetence on the surgeon's part! Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/5/2012 8:19:03 PM [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 5 2012 : 11:28PM As you pointed out in #4, MD or not, people can have an opinion and I would be extremely cautious about assuming I don't have experience, exposure, and knowledge in this area. BYOB_Kenobi stated: Do no harm doesn't mean do stupid unnecessary surgeries that have significant risks during surgery (post-op and during surgery/anesthesia). Non_MD_Futurist stated: 1) What exact experience, exposure, and knowledge do you have in this area of specific complications posed by having a clitoridectomy (elaborate work and hobby history)? 2) BYOB_Kenobi extracted quote: "1) risk during surgery (2) post-op and 3) during surgery/anesthesia)" is vaguely generalized. What are those exact (elaborate every category 1-3, specific complications posed by having a clitoridectomy)? BYOB_Kenobi stated: So pardon me if I don't subscribe to medical students specializing in plastic surgery, when there are many shortages in other specialties with greater need and more beneficial medically or surgically Non_MD_Futurist stated: Plastic (cosmetic and reconstructive) surgery is a necessary practical speciality field! 3) Would you answer for yourself, instead of letting Hardware answer for you to my response? Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/6/2012 3:50:46 PM [Link] |
| Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2012 : 2:16AM Back on topic, you completely missed the point of my last post, which is not the incompetence of surgeons performing breast augmentation, but the inevitable corruption of medical practice when money takes precedence over the patient's welfare. In other words, their sin is not one of incompetence but of indifference. Enough about the doctors, let us talk about the patients. I'll wager that the vast majority of women who get breast implants are not suffering from some disease, they are suffering from low self-esteem, as in, "If only I had bigger breasts I would be normal. If only I had bigger breasts I would be more self-assured, more popular with boys, etc." Why should we seek to dissuade them? Because the foolishness of placing self-worth in one's body image is a fact which any octogenarian can attest to. To put it bluntly, the body is going to go downhill with you in it, so you'd better figure out a better reason to like yourself than the image you see in the mirror. Furthermore, there is an old and hallowed saying that a doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient. If that is true, then how much bigger is the fool who tells his, or her, doctor what treatment to prescribe? Even if there was no shortage of physicians to do necessary and compelling procedures, this makes 'elective' surgery a problem. [Link] |
| Non_MD_Futurist Deactivated User 13 Posts 11/12 | Posted - Dec 6 2012 : 3:01AM Edited by - Non_MD_Futurist on 12/6/2012 4:12:33 PM [Link] |
| lindi Senior Member 12345 3205 Posts 9/02 | Posted - Dec 6 2012 : 4:23PM [Link] |
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