How does one find work as crew on productions? I'm an actual film grad, not a fan boy. All the work I've ever done is mainstream, so I don't really know many people connected to the adult world, and connections are usually where the jobs come from.
Porn is much harder to get into than "legit" film. The crews are MUCH smaller and it's more "closed" for obvious reasons. Paying gigs are getting harder and harder to come by in porn. So many people are willing to work on a porn set "for the experience". Frankly, the last thing porn producers/directors want on a set is a film school grad. No offense meant to you, but many times I've seen film school grads come onto a porn set and try to use their knowledge to "better" the production. I'm not saying most porn shoots aren't treated as a professional set - they are. But it's "gun-and-go" shooting. something that a lot of film school grads have been taught is bad filmmaking. So my advice would be to not even mention your years in film school if you get any connections in the business.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 1:27AM
It would be great if this guy could get himself hired onto a Zero Tolerance shoot, and spend the day babbling incessantly at Quasarman about mise-en-scène and shit like that.
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm aware porn is shrinking also, but I was just interested in increasing the possibilities. As far as the film grad stuff, well I'm about as far as you can get from the type of person you're picturing - but I know exactly who you mean because I had to suffer through classes with that type of guy as they spouted on about this or that. I know what porn is and what it isn’t. I only mentioned it because I know how to set a light, hold a camera, etc. Again, thanks.
If you're suggesting that film porn would be better shot and lit if film school grads were on sets I'm not sure you understand the skills an experienced pro brings to even a porn shoot. I make an excellent living as a camera operator on reality shows, TV series and films in addition to my work on porn. I dropped out of high school. A film school grad doesn't necessarily bring more to a set than someone like me would.You're welcome. I know why you mentioned going to film school. And that's why my advice is to not mention it when looking for a gig. Too many film school grads ARE the type who spout on about their knowledge and understanding of cinema that guys like you get the short shift without even getting a shot. I know you spent a lot of money to learn how to light a set and hold a camera, but the vast majority of crews on porn sets know how to light a set and hold a camera without ever going to film school. And most producers and directors have been burned by the ones who treat them as if they are "just" porn guys. Hard to believe that most of us actually take pride in our work because there are so many who don't.
I'm simply stating that there are people who can make a slice of pizza look sexy. If that guy can make pizza look sexy, imagine what he could do with a beautiful naked woman. I'm not necessarily criticizing you. I have no idea who you are. Maybe your stuff is good. I just think maybe it's not a great idea to lock people who have actually had training out.
RandomPrecision posted what I was thinking. I'm not gonna argue the merits of schooling vs. experience, yada yada. But the fact is that most porn sucks because the camera work sucks. And you seem to be confirming what I have always suspected: The camera work sucks because the cameramen are set in their ways and don't know any better and probably aren't aware that it sucks because they never watch the finished product and/or can't see it in same way the porn consumer sees it. Maybe you're one of the very few who has a clue. If so, my apologies. But...regarding the rest of the bunch, replacing them with film school grads couldn't hurt.
And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09
Posted - Dec 9 2009 : 11:56PM
Yeah... People who know composition, colour balance and grading are a benefit not a hindrance. Porn is full with people who seem unable to handle recording equipment. The most celebrated contemporary directors are all able to shoot the best angles and make the whole thing look good. Mike Quasar for example, seems to know a lot about the equipment he uses and it comes across in his productions. Others such as William H., Jules Jordan and the like all display superior abilities when shooting and general production. They are though, in the minority. Also, according to his bio, Johnni Darrko crossed over from mainstream photography, and that was a benefit to the porn he's made. People with technical ability should be welcomed.
Fair enough. Maybe camera operators who graduated from film school are better than those of us with experience on set. Let's hope people like Roland migrate to porn. And I apologize for giving the impression I was locking him out of anything. My intent wasn't to lock him out, but to offer a little of my personal insight and experience into the politics of a porn shoot and the directors, producers and crew. Often in this business (and in mainstream) throwing around the film school grad card isn't the best think to do when trying to make connections. It's sad when good people get lumped in with the bad ones, isn't it? I know I get it all the time. So I amend my comment. Roland, be proud of your film school accomplishment. I hope you find work in porn. It doesn't pay well anymore and the hours are long and unfortunately the producers and directors don't really care if the crew is lighting the set well or the operator is getting good shots, but it beats the hell out of working at Starbucks. Maybe more film school grads will make the product better. Apologies for those of you who love working at Starbucks.
Thanks CameraOp for the reply and the insights. Not meaning to gang up on you...it just kinda turned out that way. We never get any insider response or even acknowledgment on the topic of camera/technical gripes in spite of it being brought up in one form or another in dozens of threads. You accidentally stumbled into a snake pit of sorts. Anyway...Welcome to ADT and hope you hang around.
And on that fateful day, the hatred consumed me... 1423 Posts 3/09
Posted - Dec 10 2009 : 1:23AM
^^+2 Agreed. CameraOp, it wasn't jumping on you, it was just general complaints. Welcome also, to the forum. A lot of people without specific training (self-taught) can be equally, if not better than those that are. It's overall quality that matters. Generally, just taking the time to learn the craft in anything would pay dividends. Doesn't really matter how you're taught as long as you've got the knowledge and can use it practically.
I didn't really take your comments that way. I understand where you are coming from 100%. I probably should have just included that I've done mainstream work for several years instead of my schooling. As you well know, schooling doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot - practice does. I get the feeling like you may have thought I was taking a dig at porn crew guys by bringing it up, but I assure you it was just to be clear that I wasn't some yahoo trying to get on set because I "like to watch." Thanks again for your insight. Edited by - Roland Piche on 12/10/2009 3:06:30 AM
And I would babble back about the subtleties of scrotum-cropping. In all seriousness though, I have had occasion over the years to work on "mainstream" projects where I was shocked at the sheer incompetence of the "film school" guys. We may just be hack porn shooters but we learn how to wear many hats. Some of these guys were truly clueless. There are also a few guys in this business who blow me away with their ability to make porn look like as good as "mainstream". Just like anything else, you either have some degree of innate skill or you don't, and no amount of education can change that. I will say though that it seems that the era of point and shoot gonzo is coming to an end which will mean the companies that survive this transitional period will be looking for bigger talent on the other side once things shake out. It's lock-down mode right now and those of us who are gainfully employed are very grateful. I know many talented guys who are sitting at home right now looking for a gig. It's definitely not the best time to be looking for work in the porn biz. Edited by - mike quasar on 12/10/2009 9:42:56 PM
The sad thing is, it has gotten to the point were us professionals are competing with the "I like to watch" guys. The producers can hire a guy with a camera who likes to watch for less money than a guy like me will work for. In the past few years I've lost jobs because I actually want to get paid to shoot.I know I try. And with a background in both I'm one of the ones who can do it. It's more often the producers/directors who don't want the lighting to look too good, or to allow us a little time to kill a shadow of add some fill.
Camera OP - Silly question- Do you have problems focusing your eyes after using the eyepeice? I get it shooting photos all the time. If I spend 30 min or more on a shoot I cant get my eyes to focus till I sleep it off. Just wondering if it happens to a pro...
Introducing Lady LorReign
Posted - Dec 8 2009 : 2:03AM
