Devil Effect

Author	Post
Mitch Cumstein Member Putting at night 28 Posts 6/07	Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 11:21PM I have read many articles about how to pick up women by being more confident, reading her body language, controlling your own body language, getting her to follow your movements, and so on. I am a male, and on many occassions over the past 5 or so years, every woman that I have been interested in has never given me any signs verbal or non verbal that she is interested. I have finally come to the conclusion that I must not be attractive enough to get the initial conversation started. I have been reading a bit about the halo effect, and the devil effect, and have to admit I am experiencing the devil effect. I would like to know if anyone else agrees with these theories, and I would like to know what you have done, and if anything can be done to reverse the effect. [Link]
JahGentle Member 64 Posts 9/09	Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 12:53AM Id throw the article out along with the belief you arent good enough looking, confident...whatever the perceived faults you are seeing in yourself. Its not real, there is nothing wrong with you at all [Link]
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Jan 27 2010 : 9:14AM Another gimmick to sell books. [Link]
LeeRoy New Member 5 Posts 1/10	Posted - Jan 28 2010 : 5:32AM i would give up reading books cause i think there's nothing better than natural charm -------------------- streaming porn kills true feelings Edited by - LeeRoy on 2/1/2010 4:16:49 AM [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 12:23PM JahGentle wrote: Id throw the article out along with the belief you arent good enough looking, confident...whatever the perceived faults you are seeing in yourself. Its not real, there is nothing wrong with you at all Click to expand Ummmm....sometimes confidence just pisses women off. Especially the really hot ones. They get tired of dealing with men they don't find attractive hitting on them anyway regardless of whether or not they gave them any indication they might be interested. Generally, if you're an ugly dude, you're expected to know it and behave accordingly. [Link]

Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 1:03PM RandomPrecision wrote: Ummmm....sometimes confidence just pisses women off. Especially the really hot ones. They get tired of dealing with men they don't find attractive hitting on them anyway regardless of whether or not they gave them any indication they might be interested. Generally, if you're an ugly dude, you're expected to know it and behave accordingly. Click to expand I agree with RP. The key to dating to me, is that you must know and realise where you stand in the pecking order, lookswise! Then, only approach women who are at your level, it's then cool to be confident with these! The exception to this, is if you are very wealthy. I'd view these dating books as all BS. [Link]
lovegeneration Deactivated User 18 Posts 1/10	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:13AM jayo wrote: Another gimmick to sell books. Click to expand True! [Link]
bi_girl Member 157 Posts 11/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 9:43AM True attractiveness comes with being sure of who you are. It's not about confidence, really; you can't deduce attraction to a few theories, discrete emotions, simple gestural cues, or instructions. Love yourself, be yourself. To me nothing's hotter or more sexy than a person who can show their true face and doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it. That kind of attitude will benefit you in the long run, because who wants to be with someone if they're not 100% accepting of who you are? Also, I'm not so certain about this looks hierarchy. The innumerable times I've seen butt ugly dudes with hot chicks would indicate otherwise. I tend to find really hot guys assholes; less attractive men are generally nicer, as they're more humble, and will most likely put in more effort to show they care. Same goes for females. It appears that the only thing that's stopping you is your own perception of yourself. Notice your strengths, and run with those. Once you're comfortable with yourself, all of the "right" body language will follow. Body language is the quintessential subconscious communicator; no matter how many books you read you will never be able to master it. So it's a lot easier to start with the stuff you can manage, like your self-esteem. It's not about being cocky or arrogant, just purely accepting and loving of who you are. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 5 2010 : 2:19AM Personally, my advice is this: Quit caring. I got a lot more women when I really didn't give a fuck than when I really cared. Confidence IS a huge factor. Who wants to be with someone desperate?? And I call bullshit all over the pecking order. I also argue to approach women like a good telemarketer: Don't take no for an answer. I believe most women give you a "no" for starters just to see if you're serious or confident enough to fight for it... so fight. But ultimately, as I said, "watching the water boil" is a lousy way to get cooking. So do what pleases you and pretty soon it will seem less important, and it will become much less difficult to approach women, hot women included. Once you get to that point, they should start approaching you even. Also, I would say there is definitely real psychoanalytical tricks involved in the initial stages of attraction. Like it's a stupid thing to just fall all over them. I like to confuse them a bit and don't be apologetic about it or anything else. It's really the law of the jungle... so be a predator, or you'll be prey quick enough. By predator, I mean be the aggressor, dominate the situation, etc. What was that show about taking the geeks to suave? I forget, but it did have several truths to it. Like not acting too interested, or always acting like you had somewhere more important to be... not giving her your full attention, etc. Lastly, I do agree with the others that books are probably a bad way to go... unless they are psychology books. Instead, I would say: Practice makes perfect. How did you get confident riding a bike? It wasn't by quitting every time you got a skinned knee. Treat the situation like Vegas: Have NO expectations, go into it to have fun (and learn) and nothing more-anything more is a "Bonus". The same approach is used by men taking the "numbers" approach: The more women I hit on, the higher my chances of getting laid. There is truth to all of that. So quit giving a shit, get out there and fail with a smile on your face if and when you fail. Pretty soon, you'll get the hang of it. It can't hurt. Tolstoy said "Unhappiness is Having Regrets". Smart man. So go out there and fail if that's what happens, it will be better than going home, jerking off and wondering what COULD have been. Instead, worst case scenario, you go home, jerk off but can grin and say "ya, but I tried, didn't I". Good Luck, and forget about looks... MEN are visual, WOMEN are emotional.... looks are a bonus, but in my opinion, women are much more turned on by a man who is interesting, surprising, and a bit intimidating..... I'm not sure what this "devil effect" is... but women are certainly interested in the "bad boy". [Link]
matchmaker Senior Member 24909 Posts 4/05	Posted - Feb 5 2010 : 3:00AM bi_girl wrote: True attractiveness comes with being sure of who you are. It's not about confidence, really; you can't deduce attraction to a few theories, discrete emotions, simple gestural cues, or instructions. Love yourself, be yourself. To me nothing's hotter or more sexy than a person who can show their true face and doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks about it. That kind of attitude will benefit you in the long run, because who wants to be with someone if they're not 100% accepting of who you are? Also, I'm not so certain about this looks hierarchy. The innumerable times I've seen butt ugly dudes with hot chicks would indicate otherwise. I tend to find really hot guys assholes; less attractive men are generally nicer, as they're more humble, and will most likely put in more effort to show they care. Same goes for females. It appears that the only thing that's stopping you is your own perception of yourself. Notice your strengths, and run with those. Once you're comfortable with yourself, all of the "right" body language will follow. Body language is the quintessential subconscious communicator; no matter how many books you read you will never be able to master it. So it's a lot easier to start with the stuff you can manage, like your self-esteem. It's not about being cocky or arrogant, just purely accepting and loving of who you are. Click to expand I like your post. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 5 2010 : 7:36AM seedfeeder wrote: And I call bullshit all over the pecking order. Click to expand So you're saying that you're an ugly bastard who can get women by being aggresive and domineering? [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 5 2010 : 7:54PM Bobcat wrote: seedfeeder wrote: And I call bullshit all over the pecking order. Click to expand So you're saying that you're an ugly bastard who can get women by being aggresive and domineering? Click to expand Well, if that's the only thing in my post that struck you as interesting, then I think you have a listening disorder-I'd bet money on it. In answer to your question: I meant exactly what I said. According to the confused soul that mentioned a pecking order (was it you?) a "10" is the only one with a chance at dating a "10", which is nothing short of idiocy. A 3 can date a 7, and a 5 can land a 10. If you don't know this, then clearly you are looking for an excuse not to approach women that you think are out of your league. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 5 2010 : 8:01PM While I doubt you'll pay any attention bobcat, allow me to elaborate in your language in case there is any hint of humility within you that allows you to consider that someone else might know something you don't: You mentioned "exceptions".... but your list was foolishly short my friend. You mentioned "money" as your exception: I'd say aspects of personality alone would stretch that list out to 2 pages. Approaching women is quite like sales. You are selling yourself. I might buy an ugly car if it's going to save me lots of money or has features that are rare. I might buy a hideous looking dog because I liked his demeanor. And so forth. For example: A man who can talk can make up for any shortcomings he may have physically. And this is also true for women. Sex appeal is NOT just in physical looks, I'd say it has much more to do with attitude. Look at porn: I am much more inclined to watch a girl who is all cock happy and eager to worship that penis yet is only a "5" than to watch some top porn actress who acts like she's there for the money. And what is the difference? The 5 turned me on, the 10 did not. Think about it, you've clearly been missing opportunities. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 6 2010 : 12:45PM ^ Are you the same dude who tries to trick chicks into eating his cum? Sorry can't take anything you have to say seriously after that . [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 6 2010 : 1:00PM And yeah, perhaps I was guilty of over simplification, but I'm positive if you did a scientific study of a large sample size, that you'd find beautiful people date beautiful people, average with average and ugly with ugly, this is a generalisation and not meant to be an exact statement. As for me, I'm happy dating miss average! [Link]

Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - Feb 6 2010 : 1:14PM As long as she takes it up the ass... [Link]
jayo All-Star Member 2117 Posts 7/04	Posted - Feb 6 2010 : 2:16PM You can't radically change your personality. You can fake it for awhile but people will sooner or later see through it and realize you're a phony. Either that or you'll get tired of the charade yourself. People attract who they attract. Women are as diverse as men. Some women like sensitive guys. Some women like assholes. Some women like Don Draper from Mad Men, and some women want an outlaw biker. Some women are shallow and all they care about is looks and money and flash. Some don't. If you're shy and you have trouble meeting women (like most shy men do), put yourself in situations where you mingle with women and they get to know you over time. Join clubs. Take classes. Volunteer. Find things you like to do and you'll find people with similar interests. If a woman sees you day after day or week after week, she'll get more than just the surface impression of you that she'd get at a bar. You really want to meet women? Take dancing lessons. Most women I know love to dance and most men I know don't. If you take lessons, you're expected to be awkward at the beginning. I'm not talking about one-on-one at Arthur Murray--I'm talking adult ed community-college type, where you're in a roomful of other awkward people. Most women I know love NAPOLEON DYNAMITE, and they swoon at the end when he dances. A man's man sits at bars and drinks and tell stories. A ladies' man dances. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 6 2010 : 2:24PM jayo wrote: You can't radically change your personality. You can fake it for awhile but people will sooner or later see through it and realize you're a phony. Either that or you'll get tired of the charade yourself. Click to expand Eeven if you could, I want to date girls who want to be with me, my looks and my personality! I’m not particularly interested in learning some sort of “hard sell” verbal BS technique, to trick girls into liking a persona that is not the real me. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 7 2010 : 3:47PM Bobcat wrote: jayo wrote: You can't radically change your personality. You can fake it for awhile but people will sooner or later see through it and realize you're a phony. Either that or you'll get tired of the charade yourself. Click to expand Eeven if you could, I want to date girls who want to be with me, my looks and my personality! I’m not particularly interested in learning some sort of “hard sell” verbal BS technique, to trick girls into liking a persona that is not the real me. Click to expand Personally, I didn't really suggest "fake it" as an overall strategy. But rather to focus on your strengths and work at your weaknesses, that's all. I still say most of this whole chemistry thing boils down to conversation. Can you add to a conversation and keep it going? Can you make her laugh? Do you tell stories well? Do you know how to flirt in the right way? If you can, I am confident that in the long run, she'd choose you over Christian Bale, or whoever you think they think is a 10. And bobcat: You don't have to take me seriously :) But I can tell you this: I've dated 10s and I've dated 3s and everything in between and generally find that I dated those women for different reasons. I don't find that overall women are that much different from men. And I would point out ONE interesting difference: Men are concerned with how WOMEN look. And women are actually more concerned about how THEY look compared to the WOMEN around them lol. This is further proof of what I'm saying. Many women choose men, not so much because they are personally attracted to them, but rather because they feel the man adds to their image (thus the rule above). We are like "accessories" to women, at least in the early stages of a relationship. This is the only legitimate place your theory holds water. SO... This suggests that all a man needs to do is give her enough benefit in any variety of ways to outweigh any possible image issues that the appearance, job, cleanliness, etc. of that man presents to her image concerns. This is interesting... it reminds me of that show "Sex in the City" where Charlotte (who is indeed pretty hot) dates this Jewish Lawyer who is bald, fat, short, and hairier than an ape. He talks his way in, and his abilities in bed keep him there, if I recall correctly. She is conflicted... but she keeps going back for more. Would you marry a 10 if she was a complete airhead who you could never really talk to, who really had very little to offer other than her curves and face? You might roger her good, maybe even 50 times... but sooner or later we all need to connect on a deeper level. And THAT is precisely why your model may have some numbers but they are based on self fulfilling prophecy and nothing more. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 8 2010 : 7:33AM seedfeeder wrote: We are like "accessories" to women, at least in the early stages of a relationship. This is the only legitimate place your theory holds water. SO... Click to expand But that is what the OP was asking, "how to pick up women", not to find a wife! I fail to see why you think what happens in "Sex in the City" has any relevance to real life, it's a tv show, driven by script writers, they decide who dates who . Most guy's I know don't care about a womans intellect, whether she would make a good mother, if she can cook or even if she's a hot fuck. They want a throphy, to take to dinner parties or clubs, it's about one-up-manship, in the same way people buy expensive cars with 400bhp that do 175mph, they don't need that, it's about the badge, it's an image thing. My gf is hotter than yours type of thing. Guys who say they can't get a date, don't mean that, what they do mean is that they can't get a date that looks as hot as the type of girl they fantasize about. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 8 2010 : 11:12AM Bobcat wrote: seedfeeder wrote: We are like "accessories" to women, at least in the early stages of a relationship. This is the only legitimate place your theory holds water. SO... Click to expand But that is what the OP was asking, "how to pick up women", not to find a wife! I fail to see why you think what happens in "Sex in the City" has any relevance to real life, it's a tv show, driven by script writers, they decide who dates who . Most guy's I know don't care about a womans intellect, whether she would make a good mother, if she can cook or even if she's a hot fuck. They want a throphy, to take to dinner parties or clubs, it's about one-up-manship, in the same way people buy expensive cars with 400bhp that do 175mph, they don't need that, it's about the badge, it's an image thing. My gf is hotter than yours type of thing. Guys who say they can't get a date, don't mean that, what they do mean is that they can't get a date that looks as hot as the type of girl they fantasize about. Click to expand And I already answered the OP's question. As I have already addressed your claims. And I didn't use a TV show to legitimize what I had stated-so again we see that listening disorder. I simply stated that it "REMINDED" me of that and had thought of it because it is true. You should know this, you certainly have seen hot women with some ugly dude before, we all have. And men do not compete the way women do, which is with appearance. Women check other women out to place themselves, men hardly do that. Do you take note of some dude's shoes when you walk into a bar? No, you scope for hot women. And again, I must assume that your rebuttals are designed to make you feel better about not trying to get girls you like and rather settling for what you think you can get. Just because you've invented a lengthy reasoning for why you don't hit on girls hotter than your "class", doesn't mean you couldn't. And if you did, you'd get some. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 8 2010 : 12:31PM seedfeeder wrote: And again, I must assume that your rebuttals are designed to make you feel better about not trying to get girls you like and rather settling for what you think you can get. Just because you've invented a lengthy reasoning for why you don't hit on girls hotter than your "class", doesn't mean you couldn't. And if you did, you'd get some. Click to expand My "rebuttals", are my observations as to why some guy's are single! I'll repeat, it's because they aim above their their league and aren't prepared to compromise on looks....., all fool to them! Your view of, if they tried harder with hot chicks they'd get them, just doesn't wash with me, I say they need to lower there expectations. I guess it's time to agree to disagree! BTW, I have a long term partner, whom I WANT to be with and I also play with high class hookers, this works for me, it's something I enjoy doing, I wouldn't want it anyother way! [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 8 2010 : 1:17PM Bobcat wrote: seedfeeder wrote: And again, I must assume that your rebuttals are designed to make you feel better about not trying to get girls you like and rather settling for what you think you can get. Just because you've invented a lengthy reasoning for why you don't hit on girls hotter than your "class", doesn't mean you couldn't. And if you did, you'd get some. Click to expand My "rebuttals", are my observations as to why some guy's are single! I'll repeat, it's because they aim above their their league and aren't prepared to compromise on looks....., all fool to them! Your view of, if they tried harder with hot chicks they'd get them, just doesn't wash with me, I say they need to lower there expectations. I guess it's time to agree to disagree! BTW, I have a long term partner, whom I WANT to be with and I also play with high class hookers, this works for me, it's something I enjoy doing, I wouldn't want it anyother way! Click to expand So you are in a serious relationship or something and you ALSO bang high class hookers? Wow, please do elaborate, as that is nothing short of interesting. I'm just curious. Also, I never said these guys should ONLY go for 10s, I simply said they shouldn't shy away from it based on a mental cage they built. [Link]
Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 8 2010 : 2:35PM If you live in London, have a high sex drive and a large disposable income..., why not, what is their to elborate on? Banging hookers is a hobby, I got board of porn! Just one website, that I'm a member of, has around 10,000 available independent girls, offering services, in the city. As much as I've tried, I just can't get my head around having sex with one girl at a time, I've been down the affairs road and found it gets too messy and ends in tears! Hookers are discrete and no one ever need know, most of the girls I've seen have a majority of clients who are married men. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 8:41AM Bobcat wrote: If you live in London, have a high sex drive and a large disposable income..., why not, what is their to elborate on? Banging hookers is a hobby, I got board of porn! Just one website, that I'm a member of, has around 10,000 available independent girls, offering services, in the city. As much as I've tried, I just can't get my head around having sex with one girl at a time, I've been down the affairs road and found it gets too messy and ends in tears! Hookers are discrete and no one ever need know, most of the girls I've seen have a majority of clients who are married men. Click to expand Well... why didn't you offer this obvious and simple solution to the OP in the first place Limey? [Link]

Bobcat Senior Member 1490 Posts 2/08	Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 11:32AM seedfeeder wrote: Well... why didn't you offer this obvious and simple solution to the OP in the first place Limey? Click to expand Getting a date is not the same as getting laid, they're two different question in my book. Also, I assumed the OP lived in the "land of the free", where consenting adults could end up in jail for doing this, which is not the case in the UK. [Link]
seedfeeder Member My balls are full, who's hungry? 716 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 6:31PM Bobcat wrote: seedfeeder wrote: Well... why didn't you offer this obvious and simple solution to the OP in the first place Limey? Click to expand Getting a date is not the same as getting laid, they're two different question in my book. Also, I assumed the OP lived in the "land of the free", where consenting adults could end up in jail for doing this, which is not the case in the UK. Click to expand lol, Listen here Lobsterback: Everything we know about fascism, we learned from YOU!! [Link]
Mitch Cumstein Member Putting at night 28 Posts 6/07	Posted - Feb 10 2010 : 9:22PM Bobcat wrote: seedfeeder wrote: Well... why didn't you offer this obvious and simple solution to the OP in the first place Limey? Click to expand Getting a date is not the same as getting laid, they're two different question in my book. Also, I assumed the OP lived in the "land of the free", where consenting adults could end up in jail for doing this, which is not the case in the UK. Click to expand The above is exactly true... A little more information, I have had a few girlfriends, just seems that it has always been an uphill battle. I have experienced that being unattractive can also mean you are a creep. Because unattractive men are not generally given any opportunity to speak to a woman If she doesn't find you attractive, and if the unattractive man does have the confidence to walk up to her and speak she is creeped out from this unwanted attention. As I have said, I have read articles, not books, on body language, and I have never read about a woman's body language when she isn't interested, but for me it is obvious now. This is why I am experiencing the Devil Effect. [Link]