Did Brazzers save porn?

Author	Post
fanman44 Deactivated User 474 Posts 1/13	Posted - May 2 2014 : 3:15AM I know the tube site model isn't looked highly upon here but it makes money. Plus, they saved a lot of companies like RK, Digital, and wicked from going under. This makes it incredibly easy for me to collect tens of scenes of my favorite stars for relatively cheap. I just grab a bangbros subscription and it's almost guaranteed I won't miss a girl who even performs for just a few months. Plus with twistys I get soft core. Now it may seem like a ruthless business model, but I'm glad classic sites like RK and twistys that I grew up on still exist. In my 18-30 demographic about 1% probably pays for porn , no exaduration. So u think brazzers business model is right for the times. [Link]
Joey Starr Senior Member Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00	Posted - May 2 2014 : 3:22AM Is it a poll? There's a polls forum on ADT too! Just sayin' and copy/pasting... [Link]
2bollocks Senior Member 3586 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 2 2014 : 11:49AM fanman44 wrote: I know the tube site model isn't looked highly upon here but it makes money. Plus, they saved a lot of companies like RK, Digital, and wicked from going under. Click to expand How do you come to that conclusion? [Link]
fanman44 Deactivated User 474 Posts 1/13	Posted - May 2 2014 : 3:11PM 2bollocks wrote: fanman44 wrote: I know the tube site model isn't looked highly upon here but it makes money. Plus, they saved a lot of companies like RK, Digital, and wicked from going under. Click to expand How do you come to that conclusion? Click to expand people always bitch about tube sites on here [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 2 2014 : 3:35PM fanman44 wrote: I know the tube site model isn't looked highly upon here but it makes money. Plus, they saved a lot of companies like RK, Digital, and wicked from going under. This makes it incredibly easy for me to collect tens of scenes of my favorite stars for relatively cheap. I just grab a bangbros subscription and it's almost guaranteed I won't miss a girl who even performs for just a few months. Plus with twistys I get soft core. Now it may seem like a ruthless business model, but I'm glad classic sites like RK and twistys that I grew up on still exist. In my 18-30 demographic about 1% probably pays for porn , no exaduration. So u think brazzers business model is right for the times. Click to expand Do You know how come that Mafia went so strong in some communities? They did laundry with their money buying stores, megastores , chains of stores , needless to say after pushing them out of business with impossible to pay "protection" so they "saved" them , they then sold their stuff at an impossible price for any honest trader pushing them out of work, then again they "saved" them. Those communities really think that Mafia is their saviour , giving jobs and keeping the trades running , there's no understanding that they have less than half the stores they had , unemployment is over 30% instead of 6% to 7% as it was before the mafia took over Basically all the jobs are in their hands [Link]

2bollocks Senior Member 3586 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 2 2014 : 4:43PM fanman44 wrote: 2bollocks wrote: fanman44 wrote: I know the tube site model isn't looked highly upon here but it makes money. Plus, they saved a lot of companies like RK, Digital, and wicked from going under. Click to expand How do you come to that conclusion? Click to expand people always bitch about tube sites on here Click to expand What? My question was how did Brazzers save those companies from going under. [Link]
JB_X Deactivated User addled 1500 Posts 10/12	Posted - May 2 2014 : 5:21PM They ran DP into the ground... [Link]
MorganKane Senior Member 6037 Posts 10/10	Posted - May 2 2014 : 5:36PM Didn't Digital Playground do well before Manwin bought them? I was sure I read somewhere that they were one of few companies still making a profit (might not be true tho). I didn't see any signs of RK or Twistys going under before being bought either. Does Brazzers/Manwin actually own Wicked? I thought they only ran their website or something to that extent. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18631 Posts 4/08	Posted - May 2 2014 : 6:58PM I posted this the last time someone asked about Brazzers/Manwin (now Mindgeek): Step 1: open a bunch of tube sites that show other people's videos for free. Step 2: use the money you're making off of these tube sites, put it together with the money you're making off of your subscription sites and other business ventures, and buy pretty much all the tube sites you don't already own. Step 3: run the tube sites so well that people don't go anywhere but to them to get their porn. Now everyone who makes porn no longer makes any money. Step 4: smile, because even though some of your own vids end up on the tube sites as well, it doesn't matter because you make money whether people watch them on your site or on the tube site, because you own them both. Step 5: Now that you have more money than everyone else in porn, why not buy their companies as well? (See: Brazzers just bought Digital Playground.) If they refuse to sell to you, offer to pay almost every single one of their employees far more, so they all come over to you, effectively buying their company anyway. (See: Brazzers buying out most of Jules Jordan's employees.) It's pretty tough not to see them as the devil incarnate if you work in porn. [Link]
Quorrl Senior Member 2835 Posts 3/11	Posted - May 2 2014 : 7:46PM ^ That seems a good summary. If RK etc. were in economic trouble, it was as least partly caused by Manwin (or by developments that Manwin did support, like the tendency of people not to pay for porn). When Manwin then uses that, I wouldn't call that "saving". [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 3 2014 : 12:11AM KillBill that's as good a summary as I've ever seen. A non-digital example would be if Chrysler stole every Ford on the road and gave them away for free on the chrysler lot. Sure, most people would just be happy with the free Ford and drive away but every once in a while someone might actually buy a Chrysler. Of course, if that actually happened, every one at Chrysler would go to jail and the people driving the free Fords would be pulled over and have their vehicles impounded. Oh, and once you've stolen every Ford on the road and they end up selling to you for pennies on the dollar, make sure you lay off all of the Ford employees and bring in people who have no fucking idea how to run a car company. (DP) and that's all I have to say about that. Edited by - mike quasar on 5/3/2014 12:12:33 AM [Link]
realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - May 3 2014 : 12:28AM I'm not defending Manwin, and I agree that they are largely responsible for ruining porn through the practices killbillvol69 described. But I also have to wonder how many other porn companies are just wishing that they had thought of doing the same thing first. Let's face it, if it hadn't been Manwin, then it would have just been someone else. With all the technology that now exists that allows people to access entertainment for free, porn was not immune. To play Devil's Advocate, didn't Manwin just capitalize on what was already inevitable anyway? [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 3 2014 : 1:13AM realtip wrote: To play Devil's Advocate, didn't Manwin just capitalize on what was already inevitable anyway? Click to expand Inevitable or not, it's a business model predicated on the theft of intellectual property, and even though no government entity will ever do a damn thing about it, it's also illegal. [Link]
fanman44 Deactivated User 474 Posts 1/13	Posted - May 3 2014 : 1:49AM Mike Quasar wrote: realtip wrote: To play Devil's Advocate, didn't Manwin just capitalize on what was already inevitable anyway? Click to expand Inevitable or not, it's a business model predicated on the theft of intellectual property, and even though no government entity will ever do a damn thing about it, it's also illegal. Click to expand hey its called the 1st amendment. the same thing keeping porn legal today [Link]
Boogie With Stu Deactivated User 1723 Posts 1/13	Posted - May 3 2014 : 1:53AM So theft = free speech now? Wow... [Link]

realtip Deactivated User 2301 Posts 6/04	Posted - May 3 2014 : 3:10AM Mike Quasar wrote: Inevitable or not, it's a business model predicated on the theft of intellectual property, and even though no government entity will ever do a damn thing about it, it's also illegal. Click to expand Manwin is obviously not the least bit concerned about ethics. I'm not defending them or saying that they're right. My point was to say that if they came up with a plan to make more money than anyone else in the business, and get away with it despite using unethical or illegal practices, then why wouldn't they? You just said yourself that the government isn't going to interfere. So what's stopping them? It seems to me like the owners of Manwin just said, "Hey, somebody is going to make a shit load of money doing this, so it might as well be us." [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 3 2014 : 3:29AM fanman44 wrote: hey its called the 1st amendment. the same thing keeping porn legal today Click to expand The first amendment says nothing about copyright infringement (which is the nicest way to describe what they're doing). The literal only thing that protects their ass is the Safe Harbor clause of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), which states that they aren't liable for what the "users" of the tube sites upload as long as they take it down in a reasonable time frame after being notified. And even that is questionable, given the tactics that they've used to get content uploaded to their sites (like paying people to upload competitors content). And the fact that they make it as difficult as humanly possible to actually report your content so that it can be taken down. [Link]
Sexy Sadie All-Star Member I came to turn on everyone 978 Posts 6/10	Posted - May 3 2014 : 5:26AM Mike Quasar wrote: Inevitable or not, it's a business model predicated on the theft of intellectual property, and even though no government entity will ever do a damn thing about it, it's also illegal. Click to expand If no government entity does a damn thing about it then, in reality, it ceases to be illegal and consequently the intellectual property becomes essentially valueless. Given Manwin/Mindgeek have correctly calculated there are no legal consequences to their actions then they are just faster, bigger and smarter than the porn dinosaurs they have gobbled up. Note I have made no comment about ethicality of their actions or whether they have 'saved porn' - both pretty much a matter of opinion. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 3 2014 : 11:53AM Sexy Sadie wrote: Mike Quasar wrote: Inevitable or not, it's a business model predicated on the theft of intellectual property, and even though no government entity will ever do a damn thing about it, it's also illegal. Click to expand If no government entity does a damn thing about it then, in reality, it ceases to be illegal and consequently the intellectual property becomes essentially valueless. Given Manwin/Mindgeek have correctly calculated there are no legal consequences to their actions then they are just faster, bigger and smarter than the porn dinosaurs they have gobbled up. Note I have made no comment about ethicality of their actions or whether they have 'saved porn' - both pretty much a matter of opinion. Click to expand If I break into your house and steal your TV because I'm certain that the police won't come, that doesn't make me smart, it makes me a criminal [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 3 2014 : 12:23PM Consider another side of the matter , they also shortened the careers of the talents,after few months even with a regular membership you will have almost all of what the star you like had done, ONE membership at say $ 30.00 will grant access to some 20 or more different sites. Once you had to pay for each of them , the stars were in demand and the sites were competitors to each other so that they tried to get as many different stars as possible to satisfy every request and taste from subscribers plus DVDs and Sites were different markets what was online stayed online and what was on VHS/DVD was available only on VHS/DVD , thus the stars were working for different markets again each company competing with the others. Now most DVDs contain actually the same scenes you would find on the sites , that means that the stars career is limited to a tour for the same company in some of their sites and that's all. This will cover all the sites and the DVDs with only a few scenes , unless you are a big name, but very few big names are coming out now , there's no time to rise to greatness. Very few can make it [Link]
fanman44 Deactivated User 474 Posts 1/13	Posted - May 3 2014 : 12:41PM The tube sites would have still come around. So would you rather a bunch of bankrupt sites or a few good sites making money. Many people on this board come from an older generation, and I can tell you this new generation has no intent in paying for porn, and nothing will convince them to. So, these sites would have lost to the tubes anyway. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 3 2014 : 1:02PM Yes tubesites were already there but those guys put them to another level, they pay those who upload content , and more each time some content is downloaded or viewed , so that what was some kind of amateur behaviour become a market giving prize to those who rip and stole content the most. Hare has been named a company Digital Playground one of the biggest , they almost faulted in less than a year , they were used to big budgeted productions in the order of MILLION dollars for some titles (Pirates 1 $ 6 million I'm told) but all their stuff was put on tubesites for free for months, with a drop in sales so great they had no way to recover the expenses at one point they weren't able to pay even their workers and sold the company for few million dollars, way less than they would have paid a year before Edited by - LCF on 5/3/2014 1:04:10 PM [Link]
2bollocks Senior Member 3586 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 3 2014 : 2:43PM I wonder how the business would look like today if Brazzers had never been around. Honestly though, it was likely already going into this direction(tube sites and all). [Link]
Sexy Sadie All-Star Member I came to turn on everyone 978 Posts 6/10	Posted - May 3 2014 : 4:36PM Mike Quasar wrote: If I break into your house and steal your TV because I'm certain that the police won't come, that doesn't make me smart, it makes me a criminal Click to expand Firstly I acknowledge the fact Manwin/Mindgeek are completely undermining the porn business model you've been operating within and thereby threatening your livelihood. I have also noted your righteous anger whenever there is a discussion on ADT involving tubesites. There is no denying that if the 'legal system' damn well did something about it things may be different. However your persistence in using consumer product analogies (cars, TVs), while useful in summoning up moral outrage, misses the point. The issue is not stealing your things but 'stealing' your intellectual property. The extent to which intellectual property has economic value to the property-holder is entirely dependent upon the legal regime that creates and supports the existence of the intellectual property in the first place. This becomes even more relevant when the intellectual property is digital code that can be infinitely, perfectly and, practically, costlessly reproduced; and where 'policing' requires disincentivizing 'uploaders' (virtually anonymous), 'distributors' (close one site down, if even feasibly achievable, and Hydra-like two more could appear), and cosumers (yeah, right, like any one or a sufficient number of these could/would be prosecuted, convicted and then given a sentence that would deter the remaining global free porn users). Moreover, it is porn we're talking about here - no Establishment credibility (as opposed to the Hollywood/MegaUpload situation) and, in the bigger picture, absolutely no economic clout (the Bitcoin market is possibly of a higher value than porn). So yeah, Manwin/Mindgeek aren't smart at all - they're only responding to and taking advantage of the blindingly obvious. It's not that I'm not supportive of your situation (I certainly don't buy into the 'saving porn' argument - I'm actually of the porn has got worse persuasion), but it's just that the genie is out of the bottle and no amount of anger is going to put it back in again. But go ahead, knock yourself out. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 3 2014 : 5:39PM LCF wrote: Yes tubesites were already there but those guys put them to another level, they pay those who upload content , and more each time some content is downloaded or viewed , so that what was some kind of amateur behaviour become a market giving prize to those who rip and stole content the most. Click to expand And, in my opinion, that's not even the worst thing they did. The worst thing they did was that, for a while, they actually had a tube site up and running within the Brazzers membership site. It was started basically a year or so before they got sued by Pink Visual. So basically, not only could you watch all Brazzers scenes with a Brazzers sub, you could watch everyone else's scenes in there too, and because the site was inside the membership site, they were much less likely to get takedown notices because you'd basically have to pay to issue them. I don't think most people realize how completely underhanded and ruthless Manwin/Mindgeek/Mansef actually was/is (also, see the aforementioned issue with Jules Jordan and their DVD distribution). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/3/2014 5:40:38 PM [Link]

pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 3 2014 : 8:18PM Firstly I acknowledge the fact Manwin/Mindgeek are completely undermining the porn business model you've been operating within Click to expand See I never thought that Manwin/Mindgeek was out to undermine the porn industry. I always thought that they were outsider's with large pockets out to make a shitload of money as quickly as possible and in any way possible. Sort of like edge fund traders who care about only two things. That they make money and there company makes money. The fact that they are screwing tons of people over and destroying the economy never enters their mind because they will be rich before the system crashes. Of course their actions have undermined the entire porn industry but I don't think they intended to do that. I also don't think the majority of porn producers would ever have done what Manwin/Mindgeek did if for no other reason that their goal is and always was to produce porn that hopefully will allow them to make money while the Manwin/Mindgeek approach is to make money from the sale of porn but without any interest in the final product other than it be profitable. [Link]
pervybrit50 Deactivated User 473 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 4 2014 : 7:09AM http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VE7Mge5kMG8/UnKoEPGFo3I/AAAAAAAAF_Q/RvYZNshmYY4/s400/Untitled-1.gif [Link]
Donkey_10 Member 21 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 4 2014 : 8:17AM "Edge funds" - really? That's not a thing. If you're asserting that the most recent economic collapse in the US in 2008 was because of "edge funds," you're mistaken. Comparing hedge funds, whose business model is to make money through investments made within the securities laws and regulations of the US, with the owners of tube websites, whose business model is to make money by selling advertising for their websites that actively violate US copyright laws, is a false equivalency. Are there hedge fund managers who have violated US securities laws? Sure. But most of them operate within the bounds of US law, because the costs related to actively violating the law outweigh the benefits of doing so. Conversely, tube site owners' business models comprise of the active violation of US copyright laws. They establish themselves with the intent to break the law. American porn producers should find some lawyers who will work on a contingency basis and begin filing copyright infringement suits against the owners of these tube sites. These cases should be relatively open-and-shut and the lawyers would be compensated from any judgments or settlements earned from the suits, resulting in no out-of-pocket expenses to the producers. Furthermore, any judgment would most-likely result in an injunction shutting down the tube site. I saw earlier in the thread that someone asserted that the current generation has no intention to pay for its porn. I don't disagree, but I wonder if any of those people realize that if the piracy continues unabated, then the producers of porn will not make any profits from producing their content. In that event, there will be no reasonable business incentive for them to continue producing new content. Further, there will be no money to pay new starlets to enter the business. In other words, the US porn industry will end and no new content will be produced. If money cannot be made, then porn will not be made. [Link]
NotMyRealName Member 487 Posts 6/13	Posted - May 4 2014 : 11:26AM First of all I don't think Brazzers saved porn. I think what it has done is inspire a raft of indistinguishable productions that are not helping the situation. 2013, on a whole, was a bad year for porn (not trying to point fingers at anyone, it's kind of understood that 2013 was a low, especially after the high of 2007 - 2012). @MikeQuasar: My 2 cents -- ZTOD should be making more orgy, gang bang, blow bang type movies, MindGeek doesn't do these. "3 on their knees", "Blow Me Sandwich", "Face Invaders", "Hand to Mouth" all this specialty stuff was done really well back in the day. ZTOD could really do well with professional product offering these niches. I would leave the vanilla sex to the MindGeek companies, they can crank out those scenes way faster and with more variety. Also, where are the trailers for Overwhelmingly Black and Baseball Orgy? (Baseball Orgy cast looks good by the way!) Good Luck to you and ZTOD in the post tube porn world! Edited by - NotMyRealName on 5/4/2014 11:33:19 AM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 4 2014 : 11:27AM ^I'm not necessarily disputing your opinion on edge fund traders but I'd like to point out that edge fund traders and high speed traders may not necessarily be braking any existing laws(time will tell if they are or if laws are passed) but one thing is for sure and it's that they have no qualms using any means to make large sums of money without any care to the consequences. I think you haven't been paying attention to what's been happening or you truly believe that porn producers don't already have lawyers working for them because I'm pretty sure they all do. The reason why tube sites are able to get away with what they are doing is that they aren't the ones uploading the stolen material so that gives them an out for litigious actions. I'm sure they gladly pull down the stolen material the moment they get a legal notice to do so because they know that it will be back up within such a short period that it's almost as though it was never gone. It also doesn't help that the video files are often renamed so that you need top view it to know it's stolen material. Of course you can always go against the owners of the sites but the servers for those tube sites are probably all over the world and probably in Countries that don`t care too much about copyright laws so getting the owners to trial would take many, many years and cost many millions and in the end the only people making any money would be the lawyers. If there was an easy solution to this problem than someone would have come up with it a few years ago. These days porn producers sleep with the enemy because they at least make some money. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 4 2014 : 11:39AM ^ Your last statement reminds me of an old story about a gold miner during the gold rush , he was playing poker with some guys and losing badly, then someone told him they were all cheaters , then the miner said: I know but this is the only poker table available in town. Edited by - LCF on 5/4/2014 11:40:20 AM [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10081 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 4 2014 : 8:42PM ^I laughed when I read your post because it makes for a great joke. Of course being that it is true then it also makes me sad. The porn industry took decades to build itself up to the point where most players could make a decent living by working in the porn industry and a bunch of outsiders have managed to tear it down in less than 5 years. [Link]
Thyrium Deactivated User 44 Posts 3/09	Posted - May 6 2014 : 1:14AM I hate how brazzers markets milfs with fake tits as "teens"... But seriously, how does putting money into their pocket "save the industry"? [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - May 6 2014 : 2:15AM The porn industry is in some deep shit. Tubesites may be only a distraction while bigger issues sneak up and destroy it. The concentration of an entire industry in SoCal, the disaster capital of America and a battleground of cultural conflict between America and Mexico, could end it in ten years or tomorrow. [Link]
barrister Member 7 Posts 4/14	Posted - May 9 2014 : 2:25AM Brazzer saving porn is like the man that kill his wife to save her. [Link]