All truth is parallel; All truth is untrue 768 Posts 10/11
Posted - Dec 30 2011 : 6:19PM
I believe it was mentioned on his facebook that he was responsible for the transition from the 90s soft porn to the really hardcore stuff we see nowadays. Any truth in that?
What BlackSix said. I suppose you could credit Max for sticking to the same wave, but, basically, he stole everything but the cowboy schtick from the Germans. Verbal abuse? Check. Tons of anal? Check. Pissing? Check. Lolita porn? Check.
^I guess we could credit him with bringing that type of porn to the American public since Foreign porn isn't for everybody. I was a huge Max fan in his early days not because he was original but because he loved to shoot anal and was good at it. of course pissing, chocking, vomiting and everything else he became infamous for weren't really part of his schtick.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Dec 30 2011 : 10:47PM
^He definitely became more extreme as time went on. If I'm remembering it correctly, his stuff first started popping up in the mid-90's and at the time it wasn't much more extreme than the typical gonzo stuff that companies are pumping out today. But then he started incorporating the speculum and other weird shit and I drifted away to other directors. I would also look at Anabolic as a key player. The first Gangbang Girl came out in 1992 I believe, and at the time that was the craziest shit I'd seen.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Dec 30 2011 : 10:51PM
If you want to look at what revolutionized porn, look at how improved technology lowered the cost of entry to the business in the late-90's and early 2000's. Unicorn explains it really well here. As the cost of entry to the business shrunk, it became more and more feasible for small-time producers to open up shop and start catering to more niche audiences, and make a lot of money doing it. This was great for consumers because all of a sudden we were able to find lots of content for the types of sex acts we wanted to see. This really seemed to accelerate in the early 2000's. Previously, when the typical budget for a production was 100K+, studios had to try and appeal to the broadest audience possible. The new technology destroyed that model.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 31 2011 : 2:22AM
I'm not sure I would describe video as 'improved technology.' More convenient and cheaper yes, but most of the shot-on-video material from the 80s and 90s looks terrible today.
Just another bare bum in the shiower 1739 Posts 12/04
Posted - Dec 31 2011 : 3:30AM
He was responsible for bringing unwanted attention to the industry from law enforcement agencies. I think that is about the extent of his trailblazing. There have always been porn companies that pushed the envelope with depictions of rough sex. Max was just much more flamboyant and a better marketer of his brand than most.
I think Rocco Siffredi/ Buttmans partnership should be given credit for the harder edge aspect of porn coming to the US. Max really just took it and ran with it, probably from seeing it and liking it from what he saw in European porn. He put on the american hat in much the same way the Brits use the union jack to indicate some domination/ conquest of sorts. You cant get more american than a cowboy hat unless you wear a confederate flag of course
I can't say if Max Hardcore revolutionized porn or not. But one thing I like about his porn movies is that they are very consistent in the type of sex they show. When you buy a Max Hardcore movie, then you know more or less exactly what kind of sex-action to expect. And the looks of the ladies you can check out on the cover. You are much less likely to be disappointed with a Max Hardcore movie than with other porn films, because with a Max Hardcore movie you know exactly what you are getting before you buy the film. I think there is something to be said for a porn stud establishing his own personal brand of fucking, and then having him fuck various ladies the same way every time. If you like his style of fucking and the ladies he chooses to fuck, then you've got it made as far as choosing porn films goes. Because you know exactly what you are getting, every time you buy his film. I think the porn industry needs more one-man porn shows like Max Hardcore had. And of course, one guy like this isn't enough, because every guy has his own unique fucking style. If you are to have variety in porn, then you need to have many Max Hardcores with different fucking styles and not just one. Edited by - Dan on 12/31/2011 10:33:26 AM
^We can thank Sony for that one. They were wise enough to realise that there was a huge possibility in allowing porn company to use their VHS media. Why do you think that Beta who was a superior system failed miserably.
Max did indeed break a lot of ground on much of the harder stuff we see nowadays. He was not necessarily the first to do many things, but he did bring it to the American market on a regular basis, for better or worse. Go to any video on evilangelvideo.com, and you will see a lot of the stuff that Max brought to the mainstream.
I don't hink her revolutionized porn but what he did do, albeit not through his own instigation, is to raise the awareness that the application of some laws can lead to infringement on the right to free expression. I feel that those of us who enjoy porn need to look far beyond whether we feel the style or manner of what he produced is offensive to us. Instead we need to understand that, "There for the grace of God could go me". I understand that the charges had to do with transporting his work and all but my point is that federal and state laws are both voluminous and vague enough that politicians and prosecutors with an agenga could do the same to anyone producing porn.
I tend to think that Max created that whole style of porn out of necessity. If Max had stuck to just being typical male pornstar he wouldn't have had much of a career and/or wouldn't have lasted that long as a performer. He was older, not good looking, not that big, and his performances weren't anything special when he was just a typical porn guy. He needed a gimmick/style/genre to set himself apart. He played off his "dirty old man" looks and took the "degradation" type porn up a few notches from what was typically seen in the US and there was a big enough audience to sustain it and make him successful.I think there have been lots of "one man porn shows" over the years but when those guys become successful with their style/gimmick other people tend to copy it and sometimes do it better. I think some people have taken elements of what Max did and applied it to their style. But they leave out some of the creepy stuff that isn't sexy or really sexual and the stuff that is frowned upon my the massess. Plus, they just can't/don't do the creepy old guy thing. Realistically, Rocco and some of the EVIL ANGEL guys aren't really that far removed from the Max Hardcore style of sex but they don't slow or bog their sex acts down with appliances, the non-sex degrading stuff, and they don't have the creey/perv factor Max has. Max is/was doing a ninche type of porn that I don't think has a big enough audience to sustain it if other people started doing the same type of thing.
I don't think Max "revolutionized" porn but I think he had a influential style that some may have borrowed elements from. But I also think there were plenty of people who've had a bigger influenence in porn than Max. If there were a top 10 list of the most influential people in porn Max probably won't make the list.
The special thing that made me like Max Hardcore's movies was the way he debauched the asses of his sexy lasses every time. He was so thorough and so complete with his fingers and his cock inside his lady's ass that you just knew the pretty lady on the cover is going to get the anal fuck of her life with this guy, even before you've seen the film. I didn't always like his choice of ladies to fuck. And some of his degrading attitude towards the women I didn't appreciate either. But Max was so good at debauching the asses of his sexy lasses that even these negatives weren't enough to keep me from watching his films. Max was a true ass-master, not only because he did it well but also because he was so thorough and so complete in the way he debauched the asses of his sexy lasses. He basically left nothing for your imagination. He did everything that could be done inside the lady's bum with his fingers and cock. And that's what made him so good. He was sure to fulfill every man's anal fantasy by doing everything that could be done inside the nice lady's ass. And I'd say that in this way Max Hardcore was better than any other guy who tried to imitate his style of porn. Because I can't think of any other porn stud who has been so thorough and so consistent in debauching the asses of his sexy lasses every time. Even Rocco Siffredi isn't consistent or thorough in the way he debauches the asses of his sexy lasses. You never quite know from one film to another how long, how hard, or how fast Rocco is going to bang the ass of his sexy lass. And you can't say how much he is going to finger the ass of his sexy lass either. Sometimes he does it a lot and sometimes not at all. Edited by - Dan on 1/1/2012 9:50:43 AM
^^ Max is a short dicked guy , Rocco isn't he can't do anal the same way as Max he would very likely hurt a girl , in a bad way I mean , besides Rocco has a production line way more diversified also he's less abusing than Max
It's true that Rocco is limited in what he can do inside the nice lady's ass because of his size. There is something to be said for talented short-dicked guys, who can play ball inside the nice lady's ass from all kinds of weird and unusual angles. Porn needs diversity and not same-looking guys and same-looking ladies every time in every film. Edited by - Dan on 1/1/2012 12:03:33 PM
I guess I agree with you but have to point out that the reason some of the other guys who imitate that type of style are more popular and have a bigger audience than Max is because they don't spend time doing all that stuff to a girl's ass. To each their own but I have to believe that most people don't find stopping to stick medical devices, drawing a ring around the anus with lipstick, jamming fingers in the vagina til it shows through the anus to be hot or sexy. It's strange and perhaps interesting to watch a time or two but I'd have to imagine most people aren't turned on by it. I'm not putting down those that are turned on by it but pointing out that's the reason others don't do it. I think Max intentionally makes "creepy" (for lack of a better word) porn and it works for him but most other performers/directors don't want to go there because that audience isn't that big compared to people who prefer that sort of intensity without the creepy factor and gimmicks.
^ Exactly why I don't like Max , and you left his watersports out, I feel that he used a girl like a doll as if she wasn't a human being but a toy to play with, it's disturbing, I mean for me, anyway he's not always the same I enjoyed some of his movies for example with Anastasia Blue or Jade Marcela not all of them but a couple movie surely yes
I actually liked a lot of Max's early stuff. If memory serves this was the first time I had ever seen a 'gaper' of any sort (This is before anyone knew who Rocco was) Then he just kept kicking it up another notch and another and another and when he started with the 'GASP! I'm cutting class, You're not going to tell my Daddy are you mister?' Then he started with the abuse and the spit, the piss and the gyno tools and lipstick/clown makeup and making them puke and cry.I had to throw in the towel. I believe that sort of video directly contributed to the .2257 code and other legislation being written to expressly criminalize depicting someone OVER 18 as being UNDER 18. So yeah, if he revolutionized anything, it was the move from the 'putting the talent on a pedestal'to something very different. And a lot of people copied him.
Actually Rocco gaped his partners even when he wasn't the director ,in his cooperatin with Stagliano for example , he entered in porn almost ten years before Max and what max did was already common in some German movies , even worse the Avantgard series pushed its limits to the scat not only piss.
Rocco didn't invent the gape - see Ron Jeremy and Tamara Longley in Caught From Behind 3 (1985). With the likes of John Holmes around, I'm sure they weren't the first in American porn, either. So yeah, if he revolutionized anything, it was the move from the 'putting the talent on a pedestal to something very different.
See Salieri and, again, the Germans.
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HollywoodBilderbergGroup Deactivated User
Undiscovered Genius 361 Posts 7/11
Posted - Jan 1 2012 : 8:23PM
Lol I am tho, it's undisputed. I think Max definitely influenced the game tho. His energy took on a life of its own. Plus I respect the guy for standing up for what he believed in.
^(@Hardware) I think the Germans still put the girls on a pedestal. Even the girls who were getting fisted and pissed on were the center of attention, as far as the feel of the movie. It came off as: "look at how extreme stuff this particular girl is capable of taking" and the viewer is in awe of her depravity. But the Max Hardcore atmosphere is more about "look at how big of a asshole I can be and look at all these crazy scenarios I dreamed up to do to these girls". Max and his schtick are the center of focus, and the girl is just a prop. I really do think Max was an innovator from that standpoint; making porn about the guy and his schtick, and not about the girls. Edited by - ninja1 on 1/1/2012 8:51:08 PM
What I find disturbing is that this seems to reflect his real personality rather than it just being a performance. One complaint about his behaviour could just be a bad day at work, but when the horrible experiences on set pile up it paints a pretty dark picture. With his behaviour in the documentary 'Hardcore', Max has been a gift for anti-porn campaigners, more so than anyone else in the industry. It's his attitude and treatment of women that I have a problem with, not the actual content of the videos. Kink.com can film women being tied up, gangbanged, humiliated, pissed on, dehumanised and treated like objects, without a genuinely misogynistic douchebag needing to treat them with disrespect. Max gives us perverts a bad name.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Jan 1 2012 : 11:05PM
Nah, he didn't revolutionize anything. If anything, he helped define certain genres, but that's about it.
John Holmes was probably the first male that was the center of attention, even though his only schtick was his dick. So, sure, we can credit Little with taking existing elements and melding them around a unique character to create a successful and long running series - no small accomplishment in itself - but that's about it. Of course, Stagliano's Buttman is another successful character creation, and Seymour Butts had a good run, so Max Hardcore isn't even unique in that regard.
Fat bottomed girls make the rockin' world go round! 1551 Posts 5/09
Posted - Jan 2 2012 : 3:19AM
I wrote a letter to Max, while he was in prison in Texas. I tried to encourage him. I thanked him for fighting for my 1st Amendment rights. AVN posted an article about him recently, including a photo of him holding a plastic tote containing hundreds of letters he received while he was in prison. The Federal authorities can pick and choose the jurisdiction to try their cases, often in the most conservative communities. They also decide what is and isn't acceptable for viewing. They draw the line. That just seems wrong to me. The deck is stacked against defendants in obscenity prosecutions.
If he revolutionised porn, then current mainstream porn would have pissing, puking, enemas and the like. However, the type of material he became popular for is still very much niche. But he was part of the wave that brought more extreme gonzo material to mainstream 'western' audiences and I do remember that his studio was one of the earliest to have a significant web presence. In terms of a revolution, perhaps not, but he did manage to have many beautiful US stars perform the most outrageous stuff, such as Briana Banks, Roxy Jezel and Rebecca Linares - until then you really had to look towards Europe and then it was hard to find and the girls were a bit skanky. That's my 2c.
Misogyny may not be a criminal offence, but that doesn't mean I have to respect someone who revels in mistreating women. Max seems to have gone out of his way to make working with him an unpleasant experience, bullying performers into doing things they didn't want to do, and leaving a number of them in tears by the end of the shoot. I don't see that as acceptable behaviour for anyone in any business. "1st amendment hero" or not he's a pathetic character.
The watersports is part of what I call the non-sexual stuff. In my mind and perhaps most people, urination, vomiting, spitting, slapping, the devices in orifices aren't sex. They're gimmicks to humiliate and degrade the women. There's an audience for that but it isn't that big and that's why more people don't do that stuff. Plus, most porngirls don't want to and refuse do that stuff. So, since most of porn doesn't do all that stuff and it's still a ninche, as someone pointed out it Max couldn't have "revolutionized" porn because it's still ninche porn. A true revolution would mean it effected mainstream porn in some way. If Max's claim is he revolutionized porn because he was the first to be "extreme" that would be very, very debatable.
I like some of his stuff but it mostly depends on the girls he's with. I'm not into the "schoolgirl" stuff at all but when he has "older" pornstars (girls who aren't portraying barely teens) and if the non-sexual degrading stuff is cut out his stuff isn't bad. It still has a bit of that creepy factor it's interesting to watch. Not something I like on a regular basis but sometimes watching a woman "getting it" Max style can be an interesting change of pace.
Of course it's not but to make it real might be , if you bully a pornstar especially a newbie into doing things she doesn't want to do is hardly a simple attitude. One of the reason I desrespect Max is what he did to Anastasia Blue who was a regular with him, he pissed in her mouth she performed but ended asking him not to put that in the movie , she said he promised , but then not only he put that in the movie but also on the cover , when she left the business , she said there's no respect for female performers especially referred to him I had a brief argument with Chico Wang some years ago here on ADT about what Steven French did to Trinity Post , he's another one with an "attitude" he was fucking her doggy on a couch all of a sudden he grabbed her face forced her to turn then he slapped her and spit on her face , she stayed shocked it was very apparent, then continued to fuck as if she was in bliss with pleasure. Chico said he had an argument with him , it was completely out of script, luckily Trinity was a professional and a trooper and didn't ruined the shoot. I saw him doing such things too often he's in my no no list. Anyway those at JM production were way worse than Max in that abusing manners , I'm surprised they're still free. One of the movies used against Max was one with Summer Luv , she ended crying but after three days she left him a message: I want more. she did 10 more scenes with him and might have continued if he wasn't convicted. Kami Andrews here defended Max she did some scene with him and said he was never abusive with her, but Kami was a name not a starlet. Edited by - Laurie Cameron Fan on 1/2/2012 9:25:55 AM
I think Max and Rob Black both gave a glimpse into the attitude that exists in some of today's rougher porn. Agree that revolutionized is a bit to strong a term. Mostly, I remember he seemed like a total jerk.
Max used to say, quite proudly, that he "invented" throat fucking. That is, NOT deep throating, where it is generally the girl carefully going down on a cock, holding it down for a bit and coming up for air. And not the facefucking stuff popularized by Brandon Iron in the Slaphappy series. He meant the kind of fucking where a girl is laying on her back with her head tilted over the edge of the infamous yellow couch, and he fucks her throat in an identical matter that he would her ass (meaning deeply and relentlessly). "Invented" is probably the wrong word, but he clearly mastered the technique, though his success clearly had a lot of which has to do with the average size of his johnson. No matter how much Rocco may have wanted to "throatfuck" a parade of girls like Max, it just wasn't in the cards. The other thing I heard max talking about inventing is his patented "throatpissing." It's kind of a sight to behold, in the way that the two-headed baby calf in the sideshow at county fair is a sight to behold. Basically it's the same set-up as the throatfucking routine, but instead he manages to piss out of his hard cock (thank you viagra!) and starts to shove the cock into the girl's throat while still pissing... then holds it there for a good five seconds, and then pulls out, demonstrating that he was pissing the entire time. Basically Max is the Thomas Alva Edison of porn.
watching that link to youtube of max hardcore, that english girl looks and sounds absolutely terrified thats a major turn off if everything is discussed and the actress is 100% into doing that sort of thing cool but to hire them for a scene then go further than agreed...or in her case threatening to make sure she doesnt get hired by anyone if she backs out fuck thats just wrong fuck max hardcore and to the thread, he didnt revolutionize shit... european porn was always way more hardcore than us stuff yes, vivid and wicked were pumping out shite left right and centre but im sure americans knew of rocco and other euro hardcore porn...max didnt do shit
The people at JM have gone so far as to threaten the owners of this forum's lives over some posting that happened here about 11-12 years ago. Technically mentioning the name JM is verboten on this forum but I think since you are telling the truth and making them look bad for their own misdemeanors and felonies your post should be OK. There is a really old thread that explains what happened but it is so old that the search function does not bring it up anymore and I unfortunately do not have a link to it.
Max Hardcore @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 30 2011 : 6:19PM
