Difficult decisions for performers?

Author	Post
Pete Zaface Senior Member 3064 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 12:10PM I've always wondered, and will probably never understand, what motivates an attractive young woman to engage in various sex acts and have permanent, commercially available records of their activities made. But I'm sure glad they do! ;) But I'm curious as to how difficult the decision to do porn is, and, once that decision is made, how difficult some of the decisions that follow are and what the decision process is. I'm sure that a lot of girls, having been through Ed Powers' lair or taken a ride in the Bang Bus, have not at that point really contemplated the possibility of blowbangs, IR, DP, DPP, DAP, a visit to Gangland, etc. I know it must vary from performer to performer -- a girl who's fucked 300 guys by the time she's 19 probably has a lot fewer reservations about some things than someone who's had only one boyfriend. So I guess the question requires anecdotal more than general answers. Is it a difficult decision to do porn, and are some of the steps performers take in their careers more difficult than others? If so, why, and why did, or why didn't, they take those steps? [Link]
blowfish Member 874 Posts 1/08	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 1:03PM What I find amazing is the older woman that were reserved until they reached middle age then decided to get in to the business. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 1:59PM The decision, such as it was, wasn't difficult for me. I didn't even have any specific plan to be in porn, I was just hanging around on a set, as a driver for a performer, and I was asked who my agent was and what was my rate and was I available to do a scene that week. I don't think I thought about it for more than ten seconds before I was booking my first scene. I'm sure the process is much more involved for some, weighing pros and cons. I didn't think there were any cons, at that time. I believed I had nothing to lose and no reason NOT to do it. I didn't really think I had any sort of future ahead of me. I had next to no self esteem and I was outrageously flattered that someone asked me to be in their porn, rather than me begging someone to let me be in their porn. For me, it was like a dream come true. As far as the sex acts themselves, I had already had an uncountable list of partners, many of whom were strangers that I wasn't attracted to, or strangers that I was attracted to when I was drunk and didn't know the next morning. I had been paid for sex before so that element didn't even register on the "think this over radar" (yeah, lots of strippers will go with you if the price is right and you're not creepy and the environment doesn't appear to be dangerous). I had done everything I could think of that didn't gross me out, and a few things that I didn't think would gross me out that did. I had absolutely no reason to say no and every reason to say yes. [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 5:48PM I've never found a man or woman's decision to appear in porn that strange and unexplainable. The money alone seems like a compelling incentive for someone in a low paid job. Yes, there are loads of issues with porn, from society's disapproval to the health risks involved, but it's legal, pays comparatively well, and there are always people willing to do more unpleasant or risky jobs for some extra cash. A friend of mine works 48 hours a week in her customer service job, earning £5.85 per hour, often dealing with angry and abusive customers that leave her upset and stressed out. That's £280 per week (before tax/national insurance), or about $410 US at the current exchange rate. Add the cost of a rented flat and driving to work 6 days a week and, even without having any kids to support, she isn't left with a whole lot of money. Despite the crappy economy and lower performer rates, a single vanilla porn scene would still pay more than she earns in a week. She's an attractive woman who could probably do quite well in the sex industry if that's what she wanted. Even if she disliked being in porn, even if she was embarrassed about anyone else finding out about it, I still think it would be understandable if she did it. I wouldn't consider it an irrational decision to choose a job, any job, just because of shorter hours and higher pay. Of course plenty of people are worse off financially than her, in debt, unemployed, or a single parent supporting a family. I'd bet that women in that kind of situation make up the majority of sex workers. Certainly outnumbering any real nymphomaniacs escorting because they love the sex, or genuine exhibitionists stripping and performing in porn for the thrill of it. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 7:11PM Dave_K99 wrote: Of course plenty of people are worse off financially than her, in debt, unemployed, or a single parent supporting a family. I'd bet that women in that kind of situation make up the majority of sex workers. Certainly outnumbering any real nymphomaniacs escorting because they love the sex, or genuine exhibitionists stripping and performing in porn for the thrill of it. Click to expand You know, I wonder about that, at least in porn. In stripping I would guess you are probably right, and probably escorting, too. I think the money might be less of an incentive to start doing porn, though. Not that the money is bad, just that going in you really don't have much of an idea how much work you will be offered, be able to handle, or how much it will pay. The money certainly had nothing to do with my porn career. At no time was it my primary source of income. I had a full time office job and I worked for a bachelor party agency on the weekends when I started porn. The bachelor party job was my primary income, the office job was my health insurance and secondary income. Between them I made about 40,000 a year. For the (approximately) 50 scenes in (roughly) 3 years that I was active in hardcore porn, I only made about 30,000. [Link]

BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 7:43PM Kimi Lixx wrote: I had been paid for sex before so that element didn't even register on the "think this over radar" (yeah, lots of strippers will go with you if the price is right and you're not creepy and the environment doesn't appear to be dangerous). Click to expand I'm curious as to what kind of money (a range) constitutes the "right price"? Are strippers actually looking/hoping for the extra income to be earned from prostitution? Are there "bargains" to be had at the end of the month when next month's rent is due? I've always figured that a certain amount of this goes on, but can't imagine how the girls and/or the customers bring the topic up. (Although, I'm sure there are crude customers who do all the time... not caring about the girl, the club or the consequences.) What kind of things might a girl say to hint around at it? Also, my observations have been that the majority of the dancers don't make all that much money -- particularly in today's corporate strip-clubs -- but, that there are always the really hot girls that also work hard and make serious money dancing (i.e. $500-$1000/per night regularly, more on really good nights). My assumption being that, a really hot girl making that kind of money dancing is probably not too interested in fucking strip-club customers (unless she's a druggie or in a pimp-relationship... either of which I wouldn't want any part of). Plus, why risk losing a good $1000+/week job? BTW, I'm not thinking of doing this, but I am very interested in knowing all the real facts. When I was younger, this would have tempted me. However, as I've gotten older, and the equipment really isn't up to the task of really enjoying a woman, the idea of spending money to have sex with a woman, who wouldn't even talk to you if it weren't for the money, has lost its appeal. And, yes, I have paid for prostitutes (when I was in my 20's and 30's). [Link]
Pete Zaface Senior Member 3064 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 8:53PM This is going off-topic, but I'll respond anyhow. There are two types of extras available from strippers: in-house and off-campus. In-house activities are more prevalent in some jurisdictions than in others -- depending on the girl and the club, for example, you can get almost anything you want in Dallas, while anything beyond an air dance is almost unheard of in Fort Worth. Some clubs have hidden corners or private booths; in others, you need to build a "stripper fort" of high-back chairs too hide your activities from club management, most of whom know what's going on and will turn a blind eye unless you make it obvious what's going on. It would be erroneous to assume that all dancers are available for either type of activity. Some are; some aren't. You're more likely to find it in some clubs than in others, because the dancers who aren't available don't want to associate with those who do, and, more importantly, don't want to put up with propositions and bullshit. Usually, in-house activities are prompted by the dancer, who'll notice the effect she's having on you and, if she's a player, will direct the conversation to determine if you're a player as well. You'll negotiate a rate, and it's off to wherever such activities are conducted -- it might not even require relocation. You'll need to beware of the markup, because most strippers who play are keenly aware that once you've agreed to a $40 handjob and your dick is in her hand, you'll pay more to have her put it in her mouth and even more to fuck her -- with the ultimate price being a lot more than you'd pay to get laid by an escort. Off-campus activities can be initiated by either party, but you shouldn't have any qualms about asking if shes available for private dances. Unless you're her first customer, she's heard it before. If she's not interested, or not interested in you, conclude the conversation politely (if she hasn't already) and wait for another dancer to stroll by. Sooner or later, you'll find a receptive young lady, and, after that, you're on your own as far as setting up the appointment goes. Waitresses can be great pimps and your best friends, and you can enhance your chances of success by befriending one, letting her know you're interested in more than dances, and tipping her heavily. Some of them also have no qualms about making a little cash outside the club -- the best escort I ever had was a waitress at a topless club in Dallas. The great thing about fucking a dancer instead of calling an escort is that most escorts will take anyone who's clean and polite and who they believe poses no legal, physical or financial threat to them; whereas a dancer has a whole lot of potential suitors to choose from. The fact that she's chosen to do what she's going to do with YOU and not the guy in the next chair (at least for the moment) can be quite a powerful aphrodisiac. You can find out quite a bit at www.aspd.net, where many cities and states have message boards where various dancers and clubs are reviewed. I'm not familiar with any boards outside of Dallas and Houston, but it's pretty easy to put together a to-do list from those boards if you're planning a trip to either city. [Link]
Dave_K99 Member 497 Posts 12/07	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 9:13PM Kimi Lixx wrote: You know, I wonder about that, at least in porn. In stripping I would guess you are probably right, and probably escorting, too. I think the money might be less of an incentive to start doing porn, though. Not that the money is bad, just that going in you really don't have much of an idea how much work you will be offered, be able to handle, or how much it will pay. Click to expand I think a common public misconception is that earnings in porn are significantly higher than they really are. I see people assuming that every girl who's been in porn for a few years must be a millionaire, or at least living a wealthy and glamourous lifestyle, as if Jenna Jameson (or her public image at least) is a typical example of a "porn star". I only know for a fact that's untrue from reading forums like this. It wouldn't surprise me if some agents misrepresent the likely earnings to get new girls into porn. I don't know if it's still there, but LA Direct Models used to say "earn $250,000 a year" in their recruitment adverts. It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few performers end up disappointed with the money they earn, and disillusioned with the porn lifestyle. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why so many girls quit porn before they've even spent a full year in the industry... Kimi Lixx wrote: The money certainly had nothing to do with my porn career. At no time was it my primary source of income. I had a full time office job and I worked for a bachelor party agency on the weekends when I started porn. The bachelor party job was my primary income, the office job was my health insurance and secondary income. Between them I made about 40,000 a year. For the (approximately) 50 scenes in (roughly) 3 years that I was active in hardcore porn, I only made about 30,000. Click to expand Obviously there's a difference between someone in your situation, and a performer who moves to LA, making porn their full time job. There are a fair few performers who've shot that number of scenes in their first 6 months. I imagine that porn is the primary source of income for them... Then there are the strippers and escorts who shoot some porn to boost, rather than just supplement, their earnings from other aspects of sex work. I don't know how common that is, but I've seen a couple of strippers talk about shooting porn to get on the feature dancer circuit. I'm sure that even that $10,000 per year would be incentive enough for someone in a really bad financial situation. For someone living on unemployment benefits, or even working part time for minimum wage, that'll be more than their annual income. Even a handful of scenes could be enough to pay off a debt before the landlord kicks them out, or the bailiffs come round to take their belongings. I've known people risk prison by stealing a relatively small amount of money, I can see some turning to porn out of the same kind of desperation. Then there are drug addicts looking for quick money for their next fix... Please don't think I'm trying to say that's the norm for porn performers, I just think that the quantity of money necessary to be a financial incentive is going to vary greatly between different people. [Link]
BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 10:00PM Pete Zaface wrote: This is going off-topic, but I'll respond anyhow. (snip) Click to expand Thanks for the response, Pete. But, I was hoping Kimi would elaborate more. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 10:57PM I think something that I've mentioned before comes into play here. There are people (I couldn't even guess how many) who just don't do so well in ordinary jobs. It wears them down and gets to them in ways it doesn't really do to other people. Some environments are just too confining for some people. A secure factory job that you could keep for as long as you want it might technically be a better job than being a porn star but some people can't hack that for 40 years. Of course, a porn career for a woman might not last very long so it's probably more an act of desperation for some than anything else. Porn seems to be the kind of thing where you can work as much or little as you really want and you might be able to take time off whenever you need to. That's something few ordinary jobs offer. Edited by - randomprecision on 12/28/2008 10:58:03 PM [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 12:22PM BigBobxxx wrote: I'm curious as to what kind of money (a range) constitutes the "right price"? Click to expand I'm sure that's as individual as the girls and the cities they work in. In the Cleveland/Akron area, the only area I'm truly familiar with, a couple hundred dollars is generally enough to get a "7" to do a "private show". Are strippers actually looking/hoping for the extra income to be earned from prostitution? Click to expand No, not really looking for it, just aware that it is out there and that they can take advantage of it if they want to. It's sort of empowering. You have options. Are there "bargains" to be had at the end of the month when next month's rent is due? Click to expand No more than any other time. It generally isn't about the girl being desperate for money. The girls are also very, very aware that if they give you a bargain price, you'll ask for the same price again, and that guys talk and she'll get labeled as cheap and never get her real asking price again. There is also talk between the girls, and no girl wants another girl to get more money than she does. What kind of things might a girl say to hint around at it? Click to expand Things like telling you what time her shift is over, saying that she is horny, making exaggerated comments on your package, and, of course, bluntly mentioning the private show option(or wording to that effect). My assumption being that, a really hot girl making that kind of money dancing is probably not too interested in fucking strip-club customers (unless she's a druggie or in a pimp-relationship... either of which I wouldn't want any part of). Plus, why risk losing a good $1000+/week job? Click to expand Usually the girls that do make that kind of money don't do extras. They don't need to, and they don't want to. There are rarely more than one of those girls in any given club (in the Cleveland/Akron area). Actually, in my area now, there is not much money in dancing anymore. Between harsher laws/rules and the economic situation in the rust belt (which has been bad for a lot longer than this specific recession the country is just now coming up to speed on) a lot of women who used to be club dancers are becoming full time escorts and the price of time with an escort has fallen dramatically. Also, the quality of the escorts is higher. It used to be pretty much all white middle aged heavy women, with a few thin, younger women with emotional/drug problems. Now there are all ages, all body types, and all sorts of skin colors. [Link]
mariemadison Member 57 Posts 2/04	Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 3:27PM I got into adult entertainment on a whim, out of curiosity. I spent most of my college years fucking for fun - and for free - and always enjoyed adult films, I answered an ad for 'adult models' just to find out what it was about. This was in 2000, and I signed on to do an amateur 'interview / blowjob / fucking' scene - very vanilla, but I had a lot of fun and I got paid $500. I was making $480 a week at my 'day job'. I continued on my own, with a cheap Digital 8 camera and a basic light set up and just shot a few really amateur scenes, literally playing around. I built a small site and nearly shit when the first DVD order came in. For a few years I was a 'porn hobbyist', until 2003 when I finally made the leap and quit my 'day job'. For me, it's the freedom the lifestyle allows, that's addicting to me. I doubt now that I could ever go back to a 'real job' and consider myself very lucky that over the years I have a big enough following to just allow me to be 'Marie Madison' for a living. But I am by no measure 'rich'. My income is very 'middle class' and even that's largely because of where I live. I couldn't survive on my income in LA, or NY but that's okay, because it's hard for me to put a price tag on the freedom I have to do whatever I want. Every morning I wake up, I don't loath the drive to work, instead I get to have my coffee and think about what I WANT to do today, not what I HAVE to do today. Everyone in the industry has their own reasons, and this is just mine, but I thought I'd throw it out there. - Marie [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 8:44PM From what I've heard from most pornstars interviewed over the years none of them set out to be in porn, it was more of a progression of several jobs titles that would earn them more money, or make them more valuable or seem to be the next logical step. A goodlooking girl needs money and starts stripping. At some point during her stripping she meets a pornstar that pornstar thinks the girl has the looks and could be doing a lot better for herself if she were were in the biz. The stripper sees the perks and money the pornstars makes and decides to check it out. A goodlooking girl answers an ad for models. It turns out to be nude modelling. She accepts the job and what stars out as solo nude modelling over time turns into semi hardcore posing with men. At some point the thinking becomes "I'm practically banging guys on camera at this point, I might as well take the next step and do it on film..." A goodlooking girl starts turning tricks and at some point becomes a successful hooker. At some point someone convinces her or she decides that she could become a more successful and higher priced prostitute if she became a famous or semi-famous pornstar. She enters the world of porn and doing movies becomes a means being more "famous" and more in demand for her primary job as an escort. I think those examples over a large segment of the women who do porn. I think it usually stems from a girl entering the adult business at a lower entry level and taking the next logical step to go to the next level or make more money. [Link]
BigBobxxx Senior Member 2681 Posts 5/04	Posted - Dec 29 2008 : 9:24PM Thanks for sharing Marie. Is this you? Do you have more movie credits than we (IAFD) are aware of? Can you link me to some good pics of you that I can harvest for a headshot pic for the IAFD? [Link]
mariemadison Member 57 Posts 2/04	Posted - Dec 30 2008 : 9:31AM Do you have more movie credits than we (IAFD) are aware of? Can you link me to some good pics of you that I can harvest for a headshot pic for the IAFD? Click to expand Yes Bob, that does seem to be me. I sent an e-mail to IAFD with an update of my bio. I've performed in almost 50 titles, a directed a few beyond that. In 2005 I took a year off, to deal with some personal and legal issues, and returned to 'active duty' in 2006 and continue on to this day. This doesn't seem like the right forum for me to go and on about me, so please feel free to e-mail me at marie@mariemadison.com and I'll get you whatever you need to update the data base. - Marie [Link]

Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Dec 31 2008 : 4:33PM Draxxx wrote: I think those examples over a large segment of the women who do porn. I think it usually stems from a girl entering the adult business at a lower entry level and taking the next logical step to go to the next level or make more money. Click to expand I accept your theory. Aside from individual specifics, your very general statements seem sound. For example: As a stripper, I didn't meet a porn star and decide to check it out. I did work with a woman who became a performer, and, in the course of fulfilling my job requirements, ended up on a porn set as her driver. I did do swimsuit, lingerie, adult products and fetish modeling prior to hardcore porn. None of it made me think the next step was sex acts on camera, but having your naked body in compromising bondage video on the internet is rather liberating. Really, after having your clamped, chained, enema'd, clothes-pinned, flogged, spanked image out there for the world to see, sex seems minor and just might prove to your mother that you aren't too terribly perverse. (Honest Mom, I do it the normal way, too!) I had turned tricks when I was a bar dancer, and quit when I quit the bars (no way to meet guys... I thought). It never even occurred to me that being in porn might give me a more lucrative experience as a call girl. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Dec 31 2008 : 6:52PM ^ I gave the senarios to illustrate what might've happened to make the girl go from step "A" to "B". Individual experiences might vary from girl to girl from what've heard those are the most common stories (mostly based on listening to Stern and Playboy radio). I think the stripper one is the most common overall and the model example tends to most common for girls who end up being big names in porn. Penthouse in particular seems to be the breeding place for many future pornstars...I think. Sometimes I can't tell if a girl does Penthouse first then becomes a pornstar or if Penthouse simply uses lots of girls who are already pornstars. [Link]
HeroinJuggernaut Deactivated User Punisher 51 Posts 11/08	Posted - Dec 31 2008 : 7:12PM they are "free" so its not a problem for them. it sucks though when they quit and nobody takes them seriously. [Link]