Edited by - dr. mabuse on Jul 10 2002

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The box cover for "All Star" lists the sites www.digitalplayground.com and www.ascensionfilms.com.

The second URL brings you to Adult DVD Empire's site. The corporate name of ADE is Right Ascension, Inc.

Also, Digital Playground's main competitor in the virtaul sex DVD arena is Digital Sin. ADE doesn't have these discs under the Digital Sin name. They list them under "New Sensations" which is apparently the parent company of Digital Sin.

The last thing is that (until recently) the default studion in the pull down menu was always Digital Playground. That appears to have changed.

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1) DP was one of the first adult studios producing DVDs back in 1997. (They may have been the first, I'm not sure.) Empire was one of the first online retailers focusing on DVDs. I believe Empire started in late 96 or early 97. It's only natural that the first two players in this market segment would develop a strong, mutually beneficial business relationship after so many years of working together.

2) It's not uncommon for manufacturers of any products to provide incentives, compensation, marketing funds, etc. to a retailer for providing preferential product placement. When you see Pepsi at the end of the isle in the grocery store it's because Pepsi is providing some type of compensation for this placement. I'm not saying that Pepsi is handing over cash for the placement, they provide compensation in more creative ways such as advertising/marketing dollars and/or discounts on product. This kind of practice does occur to some extent with almost all of the larger adult DVD studios and retailers. I don't think it's a bad thing unless a retailer is shamelessly promoting horrible products, which is certainly not the case with Digital Playground. They consistently produce some of the highest quality DVDs out there.

On a different note, I don't want to see this thread or this forum become a place for someone to vent their frustrations or work any public agendas against a retailer or studio. If you didn't get your answers from participating in Empire's forum please don't expect that you'll learn anything new here.

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Say what you will, I am sure that someone in the know could tell you that there is a link there. Especially if a web address on DP's "All Star" case points to the site...

There's no real cause for alarm here, except that poor Digital Sin may be getting screwed (not that I really care -- I hate virtual sex titles). Transparency, however, ought to be the word of the day, especially with all of the corporate shenanigans going on now. Porn fans are fickle, and though they like their toys I get the sense they don't like feeling like theyve been toyed with...

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-Drew Black

I will assume this statement is meant for me. To be honest it is really more about curiosity, and having way too much free time. I have no serious problems with Adult DVD Empire, I think that they run the BEST online adult dvd store in the world hands down. However I am curious as to why I should not expect to learn anything new here. This is a forum called Adult DVD Talk, and I am talking about Adult DVDs with other people who seem to have made similar observations.

If I have a public agenda, then my agenda is to provide and share honest and accurate information , reviews, and opinions about adult DVDs. From what I can see that is exactly what this very site seems to do an excellent job of. I really do believe that this site provides an excellent service for its members, as well as for the better online retailers.

May be you are right and I am venting a little frustration. If it is frustration, is it wrong to vent it? Especially if it is done in a factual, respectful and reasonable manner.

"It's not uncommon for manufacturers of any products to provide incentives, compensation, marketing funds, etc. to a retailer for providing preferential product placement. When you see Pepsi at the end of the isle in the grocery store it's because Pepsi is providing some type of compensation for this placement. "

I totally agree! I feel that they have the right to make any decisions they want to regarding how and or what they promote, but shouldn't I be free to comment on it.

I think that if you are a site like Adult DVD Empire and you invite your customers to submit reviews, and help the site sell product, than you have a right to be curious as to why some products get preferential treatment. I know the reason I love reading the reviews of real customer, like so many of the reviews on this site, is because I feel I can trust them.

I realize that this site has a relationship with AdultDVDEmpire, like it does with all of the better online retailers, and if my comments or opinions have caused problems I sincerely apologize. If this type of a dialogue is not welcome on this forum I will simply drop it. As you can see I am an avid poster, and in the short time I have been posting here I like to think that I have been contributing to this forum in a positive manner.

Edited by - Gold_Member on Jul 12 2002

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If you were unable to get the answers you seek from participating in Empire's forum with Empire employees then I highly doubt that anyone around here knows the details you seek about the inner workings of Digital Playground and/or Empire. I certainly don't have the anwser and I've personally known the owners of these two companies for years.

In any case, DVD Empire and Digital Playground are privately owned companies operating in a very competitive marketplace. I don't think that either of these companies have any responsibility to publically disclose the nature of any relationships with suppliers, customers or creditors. While it's OK to inquire about such relationships please don't be offended if there's no answer provided. If the question is repeatedly revisited in order to keep it in the public's eye as was the case in Empire's forum the motivation behind the inquiry becomes suspect.

Steph and I used to run an adult DVD store. Some of you may remember Divadee.com. Back then there were only a few dozen adult studios making DVDs. At that time Digital Playground titles consistently accounted for 30% - 40% of our total sales revenue and we didn't position their products any more favorably than titles from VCA, Wicked or Vivid which were our other major sellers. Why did we sell such a disproportionate percentage of their stuff? The only thing I could come up with is that it was simply customer demand. I can only assume that other online retailers had similar sales percentages. When 30% - 40% of your revenue is generated from one supplier you tend to try to cultivate that relationship into something special to be sure it never goes away.

I can also say that Samantha Lewis at Digital Playground is one of the smartest and most determined people we worked with while at Divadee. (It was a pleasure to work with her when compared with many of the other studios that didn't have a clue what day tomorrow was or when my order was going ship.) I'm not sure if you've ever looked through AVN and compared the quality of DP's ads with those of other companies. Digital Playground has managed to build an amazing public image over the years and must spend tons of money in promoting it. They know how to put their product out in the public's eye. DVD Empire is the single largest adult DVD retailer on the internet in terms of sales revenue and possibly customer traffic. It only makes sense for DP to develop a strong relationship with such a large sales outlet. Maybe they pay for product placement? Makes sense, nothing wrong with that. Maybe they provide additional incentives to their customers to promote their products exclusively against some of their key competitors? That's possible too. Is it wrong? I don't think so. Does a privately owned retailer need to publically disclose these marketing relationships? Absolutely not.

Your posts in this thread have in no way damaged our relationship with DVD Empire. I apologize if my previous post implied that in any way. I was merely trying to set the tone for what will be acceptable if this thread is to continue.

With respect to Ascension Films being on the All Star DVD case, I think there's a perfectly logical explanation. All Star was a very expensive production which took a long time to master. (I saw footage for it in a digital editing bay on a visit to Digital Playground's facility in early '99.) In the mainstream movie world it's not uncommon to seek outside investment to help fund expensive productions. Why should the adult world be any different? Maybe DVD Empire as a company made an investment in the production to ensure its availability for the fall and holiday sales period knowing that they could sell tons of them? Maybe there was an investment made personally by DVD Empire's owner? Makes sense, smart thing to do if you ask me. I would have done it had I been given the chance while at Divadee. Would I have disclosed my role in the production on a public message forum? Not a chance. This explanation for the DVD case is only my personal guess and is not based on insider knowledge.

Edited by - Drew Black on Jul 12 2002

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Drew, you are of course right that neither Digital Playground nor Adultdvdempire have any reason to publicly divulge any relationship short of co-ownership, which appears to not be the case.

I was just thinking that, again, in this atmosphere of corporate crap, it would be nice (and possibly even good for business!) for companies to be a bit more transparent about their relationships.

Of course, in terms of customers, transparency is the last thing we want in xxx (though it's fine when applied to the performers clothes!).

mp

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I not sure you remember my original question, because I certainly never asked it in Empire's forum. My question was simply:

"I was just wondering if anybody knows the lowdown on the relationship between these two. I suspect one owns a rather large piece of the other. Does anybody know for sure?"

While it seems you do have the answer! "In any case, DVD Empire and Digital Playground are privately owned companies operating in a very competitive marketplace."[i/]

As for not getting answers to the rest of my questions in Empire's forums, your right I did not get answers to them, but I did not ask those questions in this forum or thread. What does concern me is that you know I was asking questions in that forum. The only way you could know that is if you were to compare IP addresses. Why would you be doing that?

The rest of your reply goes on to more or less defend the business practices of the Empire, and more over to state that it is pretty understandable. You know what your right! No one was arguing that, I certainly wasn't. Of course companies will have strong working relationships. Companies will also go out of their way to shut out their competition, all the time. Look at Coke and Pepsi, for example there are hundreds of examples where they give incentives to stores to carry their products exclusively, in an attempt to eliminate their competion's presence.

"I can also say that Samantha Lewis at Digital Playground is one of the smartest and most determined people we worked with while at Divadee. (It was a pleasure to work with her when compared with many of the other studios that didn't have a clue what day tomorrow was or when my order was going ship.) I'm not sure if you've ever looked through AVN and compared the quality of DP's ads with those of other companies. Digital Playground has managed to build an amazing public image over the years and must spend tons of money in promoting it. They know how to put their product out in the public's eye. DVD Empire is the single largest adult DVD retailer on the internet in terms of sales revenue and possibly customer traffic. It only makes sense for DP to develop a strong relationship with such a large sales outlet. Maybe they pay for product placement? Makes sense, nothing wrong with that. Maybe they provide additional incentives to their customers to promote their products exclusively against some of their key competitors? That's possible too. Is it wrong? I don't think so. Does a privately owned retailer need to publicly disclose these marketing relationships? Absolutely not."

I don't understand why we are arguing? Of course they do not have to publicly disclose these marketing relationship! I am not calling for them to do so. As a matter of fact I would consider it stupid to do so. To quote you once again "Maybe they provide additional incentives to their customers to promote their products exclusively against some of their key competitors?". While I believe that that is exactly the case, with DP and DS. Is it wrong to engage in such cutthroat business practices, I don't really think so because it is done in almost every area of the business world. But why would you or anyone on this forum care, that I am bringing these practices to light? Is it wrong for a consumer to wonder or speculate on such relationships or business practices?

The only reason I touched on this subject in the Empire forum, was not because I wanted to embarrass or finger point, but because I want to see a product that I am interested in buying promoted to a higher level. I want to see Staff reviews and screenshots so I can make a more informed decision on the latest My Plaything. To be honest I don't really blame Empire I blame Digital Sin for not fostering a better relationship with Empire, as tough as that might be. Empire has always claimed that they listen to their customers and they give them what they want. So what is wrong with a customer voicing his opinion?

I am not seeking any secret knowledge of Empires inner workings, I am not trying to expose some kind of watergate, all I am doing is wondering why a great product is being ignored, in favor of a Digital Playground product. Again is that so wrong??????????????????????????????????????

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I see no reason to clutter this thread further with any additional responses. You obviously have an axe to grind, I'll not be your sharpening stone.

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Drew BLACK. Robert BLACK.

Very eyebrow-raising, huh?

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Gold member,
As great a resource as the Empire is, for truly unbiased reviews, you gotta come here first. I did a quick search, and came up with 27 reviews for the Virtual Sex series, 30 reviews for My Playthings.
For the record, I too think Digital Sin's My Playthings are superior, but as people have pointed out, a lot of it has to do with the star.

I think this war of the Virtual Playthings might become moot when VCA comes out with their hands-free voice activated dvds, however. Just think - no more futzin around with a mouse, gettin it all clogged up.

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However I fail to see how you have gotten the impression that I have an axe to grind from my posts. I think I have been extremely fair and factual.

You are certainly not obligated to answer or respond to any of my points, but it does seem to my that you have not really responded to my questions. Like what is wrong with me exploring this topic in this manner?

I might also point out that, you engaged me in this disscusion.

I think it is best if we just agree to dissagree. I am not sure of what we disagree on exactly, except for the fact that you seem to think I have some ulterior motive. I am not out to get Adult DVD Empire, they provide a wonderful resource for porn fans, and do a lot for their customers. Trust me if I had an axe to grind it would be a whole lot sharper than this and would cut a whole lot deeper.
Anyway I think we have flushed this issue out more than enough at this point and I know I am more than happy to move on. I hope there are no hard feelings, I know there are none here.

I must admit though I am curious as to what perspective other on this forum might have on what has transpired on this thread.

In closing I would once again like to commend Adult DVD Talk on providing an invaluable resource for porn fans everywhere, and that certainly includes people like
Drew who help make this site possible.

Goldmember

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Unfortunatly I just discovered this site about a week ago, because your right you really do have to stop here before you even think about ordering anything. Plus this is a great forum with a lot of knowlegable active members. I also love the fact that some of the companies actually communicate with their customers directly here. It is just so good to see.

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