I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 13 2019 : 7:03AM
I've been following porn for the last 19 years and since this forum is a respectable place with people from the industry posting, I would like to ask several questions and state my opinion. I am ready to stand corrected for anything (actually I would be thankful). Please feel free to add and correct.
Why does teenage girls/boys get into porn? My opinion: I can get somewhere between $300-400 for a BJ to $1500+ for anal just working 2-5 hours so why not?
Why do girls quit porn so abruptly? First, I do not get the "she was caught", her family probably knows that she is sexually active so what's the big deal unless they are some religious people that stay virgins till marriage (Respect). There is the shaming fact, but I do not think these girls would care.
And back the title to my thread, does porn provides a "return on investment", for instance some girls get massive implants for somewhere between $3000 to $1000, then she shoots between 1 to 10 scenes, assuming she did get $1000/scene, she barely gets even to what she paid so why stop?
For instance, stars like Julia Ann who are in the industry for nearly 2 decades now are probably rich, but what about the one hit wonder actresses like those we see in sites like MILF Hunter, Dancing Bear and similar, was it even worth it? or was the scene a promotion to other side jobs?
Any inputs would help especially from people working in the domain.
Some actresses are dancers at clubs and will do a few adult movies to enhance their profile at the club. Doing porn doesn't make you rich. There are also a lot of costs involved. The actors and actresses have to undergo testing for STDs often. Many use an agent to get them work, which isn't free. Smaller shoots require the performers to bring their own costumes and do their own make-up.
It's definitely a lesson in economics. People tend to think most everyone with a media presence is affluent. Understandably so, as they're often seen in exclusive/exotic locations, using sponsored products, etc. But, as with most industries, they're most often viewed as "assets" in the bigger picture, and not necessarily high-cost ones. The people who are truly benefitting off of all that money floating around, you rarely see them or even know their names.
^^I believe her but she isn't a very good example to use for this kind of discussion because she basically worked for two studios over a period of 1 year and while IAFD list 29 titles to her name. I suspect that only about half are actual scenes she was paid for while the others are the dvd release of her inter net videos. For that reason it makes sense that she only made 12,000$.
Edited by - pat362 on 8/13/2019 1:16:00 PM
[Link]
crazyike Deactivated User
237 Posts 9/18
Posted - Aug 13 2019 : 1:21PM
^ yes, but you'd still expect her to make a lot more than $12k during an entire year.. Most porn chicks demand the highest rates when they're new, and to add to that, she had the whole middle eastern/Muslim chick niche to capitalize on, a niche that has little competition.
Porn CAN make you rich if you're GOOD at it and know how to promote yourself. The reason Mia only made 12K is because she only shot a few scenes and she didn't promote herself. She didn't buy her domain name. She didn't create her own content. And she signed a bad contract. The pornhub views and all that WOULD be lucrative for her BUT she doesn't own any of the material. So its not the fault of porn that she only made 12K. Its her not capitalizing. Im a guy and I make way more than that every month. Because im good at marketing and i stand out as a performer. And for girls-who are the main atttaction in straight porn-they can make wayyyy more. I know girls making tens of thousands every month. What do these girls have in common? They know how to market. They know how to perform. Or they are simply drop dead gorgeous. Without one or all of those 3, you'll end up like Mia, angry at porn because YOU didn't capitalize on it. Porn is hard work.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 13 2019 : 5:00PM
Thanks for the contribution guys.
As for Mia Khalifa, first of all, I do not believe the 12k at all unless she spent what she got on drugs and/or other addictions. Second of all, she had more exposure than any other porn star since Jenna Jameson, she capitalized on her Lebanese status to get that exposure. As you may or may not know, Lebanon is an Arab country, most of its population is muslim with a Christian minority, Playboy and Penthouse are the only magazines allowed there since mid 2000s, porn is illegal aka you cannot buy the porn DVDs or magazines, other adult "activities" are also illegal and held under the radar.
I believe the quotes from other pornstars, but these girls have a lot of scenes and stayed in porn for along time. I question the ROI of those who stayed under 6 month which seems to be the trend these days.
^^Also this, ironically. She's done more than an adequate job of marketing herself outside of porn, be as it may "because of" porn. Who knows how much money she has or has earned, but she's definitely leveraged herself into a bigger name than 99% of porn girls will ever be... and seemingly for a lot less work.
They must be making money from dancing and from escorting.Plus i am sure many of them have some rich sugar daddies buying them stuff.Infact i think the money they make primarily from porn scenes may be much less of a proportion of their overall income than their other activities.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 13 2019 : 6:44PM
Yes, I suspected this because, and especially, in older scenes, you'd see performers with massive implants, yet it is their only scene and filmed in a warehouse or the back of a store or a street somewhere, so they must be some escorts that were brought for a couple of hours that's why so many old Milf Hunters scenes start in a cafe somewhere then go have sex the same thing can be said about Dancing Bear.
What about ex-military girls and guys, is it allowed or they might face prosecution especially if they shoot in their uniform?
As for Mia Khalifa, she might try to look and sound stupid, but she is not.
Gone are the days of Jenna Jameson...I believe the ONLY performers who are rich (besides Ron Jeremy thought to have saved EVERY SINGLE DIME according to his doc) are those who end up owning their positions be it as a studio or owning their own significant content or other industry related business...
Performers as performers do not make as much as you'd think plus most have to also work as dancers escorts webcammers to supplement their porn work...I am told that many if not most male performers have other incomes in other words DAY JOBS!
Also check the Rialto Report Podcast on Porn's Golden age...You'd be surprised the numbers of exPornStars who don't only die broke they die broke broken and fucked off....
You should be asking 'Does porn make you fucked off?' for many it is clearly a YES that is if they do not commit suicide or otherwise die prematurely...
pornstar typically get paid per scene and no more than that , they may make some money if they run their own site themselves , but if it is a producer just collecting her scenes to make money over her fans and commercials then she'd see zero money.
It's $400 per scene pretty much standard for someone who just entered in porn as she was back then , did only vanilla (no anal ,no DP , no gangbangs) and never worked for a major site and , as it appears, she didn't profit over the few IR scenes she made either
^Well based on a recent article about porn rates then a g/g scene can earn on average between 700$ and 800$ while a b/g will earn between 900$ and a 1000$. Now that doesn't mean that some douche producer won't try to short change a performer and pay her a lot less but you would hope that a light would come on and she would realise that she is being cheated. Now solo and oral only is likely going to be around 400$ and she did at least four of those type of scenes.
Let's say for argument sake that she was paid for 20 videos of which 4 are at 400$ because they are solo or oral only and the others are 900$ because they are b/g. The maximum she would have earned is 16,000$. Not sure if she had an agent but if she did then at least 1600$ went for his fees which means that she now has only 14,400$ but since the industry requires a 14 day STI test and I think cost is about 150$(give or take) then it would have cost her 3900$ to work for a full year in testing. In my calculation she only made 10,500$ but that does not include food, lodging and other essentials. That's why I think her 12,000$ amount makes sense to me.
^ I don't think those wages are real, I remember a BTS where Taylor Rain stated her wage for a DP was $ 1,200 and this when the money was flowing, Amy Reid could ask and be given $ 8,000 for her first IR and it was still profitable , still a major name like Taylor could only charge $ 1,200 for a double penetration? Take note she only did two at the time of that BTS including the one in the movie (a Diabolic/Anabolic production) And now when the market shrinks ,there's a shortage of working opportunities for the stars , the prioducers only place 4 scenes per DVD instead of the 5 common at that time and yet they are paying the stars even more than the average of that era?
I don't buy it , it's against the Rules of Acquisition , when the offer of workers available is higher than the work opportunities prices and wages tend to lower , they do not raise
The wages you stated must involve at least some anal
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 15 2019 : 5:19PM
Yes, these have been the rates for the last decade or so. These are some numbers that I got from a pornstar who is a friend. Boy/girl $1,100 Boy/girl anal $1,700 Handjob $250 Blowjob $350
That's what explains the thread's title, is it really worth it? You're branded for life as a "whore", if you get married and have kids, they're gonna suffer, I know many Playboy Cybergirls of the week (for those who do not know, a girl who did a session in a hotel for an hour) whose kids are suffering.
I'll take for example Scarlett Snow, she did like 10-20 scenes including 1 gangbang and 1 orgy, she does anal but wasn't offered until now, her implants are massive and must have cost a lot, so after deducting the costs mentioned earlier and the implants what is left to her?
Speaking of Scarlett, is there something as "not too pretty for porn", she was attacked for her looks but once an insider told me that whatever your looks is, there is always a market for you.
Remember 2005 when Red Light District Platinum X were the shit? Well this thread is Mackenzie Pierce fighting (plenty of dirty laundry) with director Brandon Iron (RIP). What is fascinating is that it inadvertently shows how Blowbangs (8 dicks) get pressured into Gangbangs at just $500...
One of the BEST reads I have read here...A bit time consuming but well worth it...
Tasha Reign writes about the economic conditions porn performers need to consider, using Mia Khalifa and her own (very different) experience as examples:
I don't think that anyone besides the top top stars get rich. And there are probably very few who reach that status as a performer. However, the Mia Khalifa number doesn't make sense. She's very popular (in the sense that the vast majority of us recognize her name immediately), it simply doesn't make sense that she would have made do little. People have said that she's only done 20 scenes. Is that true? She seems to have been around for a while now, could she have worked so little?
^ why not? A pornstar get paid per scene whether she gets popular or not , maybe on the long run a "name" can ask more, but Mia quit after just 3 months , either nobody hired her any more or she just got tired , either way most of her work was done before anybody knew who she was , they first shoot the scenes and then they market the star , nobody would risk any money into promoting someone who could change her mind and quit without shooting any scene.Well I'd like to know how those figures match up with Mia's $12,000 for 25 scenes instead of at least $30,000 according to your figures
Though Tasha is a completely different beast for example while stillperforming she Gaduated at UCLA and could design a business plan that suited her plus could figure out just about anything running in the industry and exploit it or counter when needed.
as it would appear MIa did nothing of this sort , she just had a very brief run , quit and tried to get a job outside of porn , she greatly underestimated her value she says she's baffled by the success her old scenes are still having 5 years later . Not just her, everybody around her at the time did the same too otherwise she wouldn't quit
[Link]
crazyike Deactivated User
237 Posts 9/18
Posted - Aug 16 2019 : 11:51AM
Gone are the days where we would have the Jenna Jameson types. She was glorious! She was the true porn "Star", today we don't have stars, only porn actors.
I know some folks on this board like to whine that "but she never did IR", and to you folks I say, get a life! Every woman should have the right to share her body with whomever she pleases to. If she doesn't want to fuck you, don't be a sissy.
Also, check this story about porn actor Jenni Lee. I wouldn't be surprised if many other porn actors of today's age will end up like this or at at least in situations where they are struggling to make ends meet.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 16 2019 : 6:09PM
Since we always get back to Mia Khalifa, I'll reiterate what I've said, the exposure came because her Lebanese origins not because her talent or beauty.
But the question is why did she got into porn in the first place? As I said in my inaugural post, isn't because porn is an easy money? are there any other reasons to get into porn?
[Link]
ineedmilf Deactivated User
330 Posts 11/12
Posted - Aug 17 2019 : 6:47AM
@kristin-Sure,it is a get-rich-quick profession. We can list so many of them who benefited millions from this industry.Of course, (as mentioned above)Mia Khalifa could have done that in a short while if she shot new hardcore contents for core studios,launched her website,own her own content. With all those fame & popularity, she could have made a regular presence on the money making platforms Onlyfans, Facecentro,Manyvids, Clips4Sale,VODs,webcams...I think the countless death threats that she had received from muslim hardliners, her Arab family and relatives' influences in her formative porn career played the key role for her early disappearance. But I agree with the figure that she has put.Even most of her interracial one-on-one and threesome(with Rico Strong & Charlie Mack) scenes were condom-only and she has never done anal.She only shot close to twenty softcore vanilla porn.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 17 2019 : 5:30PM
The big questions: Why did Mia and other barely legal (sometimes not) teenage girls get into porn or even pose nude for Playboy for that matter?
Best answer: quick cash, a former pornstar friend told me why not get paid $300 for a half an hour HJ. Other legitimate answers: she does not want to keep a day job, if you read Holly Madison's book about Playboy, she'll tell you that most girls do it just to get cash and stay there unemployed, of course it backfired on most of them. She has medical bills, she is in a messy divorce/custody battle and needs cash for lawyers. There is also "she used to be the schools slut, the easy girl, she was gangbanged by the football team", but I take these with a (huge) pinch of salt.
Why did she (and other pornstars) stop so suddenly?
It was and still my original question and biggest wonder? For the American and other western people, Mia Khalifa was just another pornstar with massive implants, no more no less. The controversy came, as I said earlier, because of her origins, in Lebanon and other Arab countries, sex is a taboo topic, you do not talk about it, if you follow mainstream arab TV you'll see that blood and violence is a normal thing but if you go as much as a kiss, the actress will be branded as a slut, I guess you get my idea.
As for setting a pay site, it is really working these days? Two decades ago, many PB playmates used that, but Instagram is killing it, why should I pay for a site to see a girls naked while I can see someone hotter, with bigger boobs wearing a thong for free.
I think it really depends a lot on your definition of "rich".
Earning $100k to $300k per year for 3 to 5 years is a really good income in some areas of the USA. But it's not nearly enough to retire. There's no royalties or recurring income. It's a job that requires a good work ethic, business smarts and determination to really make the most of it.
It's a good way to pay for a college education working on breaks/summers and finish school with no debt.
^I agree that the term "rich" may be misnomer when discussing people who do porn because 100k while a huge sum is still not that much if you earn it over a couple of years and even if it's in one year. They are some pretty steep expenses involve with working in the porn industry. Not least of which the 14 day testing that performers have to pay for. That said how many women in their 20's can claim to have worked in an industry where they earned 100k per year?
If you can use porn to get your name out in the world and then get other income streams going, you might be able to make a decent living, but to me the definition of "rich" is that have enough passive income that you don't need to work for a living. Porn performers are definitely working.
I don't know Mia Khalifa's story, but I'm guessing that both she and Megan Abbott (the woman interviewing her) are hustling in this interview. Megan's is doing the "Life Coach" hustle, and they are working together to create clickbait.
Like porn, few people get rich off Youtube, but it's a hustle. A "Life Coach" who gets over 1 million views on Youtube might be able to get one or two more clients that way. Similarly, a porn star who can help a "Life Coach" get a million views might be able to get some free life-coaching, which might be really important for someone trying to build a career after porn.
I don't think any of us should mix any possible side earnings if there are some to the porn earning per se ,those are collaterals , especially without considering all the missed job opportunities she mentioned she suffered because of porn consider that she has a PhD it would appear, those are collatareals too , but apparently nobody's bothering to even figure out the losses of that. Anything on the side even though could be related to porn, isn't porn per se hence shouldn be taken into consideration besides we don't know if she did , or better yet I'm not aware of any snapchat/fancentro/onlyfans to her name
She has a youtube channel with hundreds of thousands of views , but still it's not a porn earning
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Aug 19 2019 : 5:16PM
Thank you all guys for your valuable inputs.
I think porn SHOULD make you rich because it is a huge risk to take even in the most liberal place in the world, not like the place from where Mia Khalifa came, that's why I asked if 6 months to 1 year is enough to give you cash to be jobless for the rest of your life since that's is the lifespan of a porn career but the stigma will be forever.
I know so many Playboy cybergirls and amateurs (not playmates) who posed nude for half an hour and were either fired from their jobs or no body hired them after, that's why I think going into porn should be worth it because you might be jeopardizing your entire future doing that.
Less identical crap, more sleaze and bush! 2378 Posts 7/09
Posted - Sep 9 2019 : 6:21PM
^^ Still hasn't made me rich, no-one calling after my most recently repeated offer of working for a sandwich
^ Of course that would be ideal to be paid in kind for the risk, but to think for as you say a girls 6 months to a years work she is going to get paid enough to never have to work again or for as long as it takes to not be recognised is a bit optimistic?
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Sep 10 2019 : 12:47AM
I've also found an old thread asking why 18-19 years old go into porn. That's why in my personal opinion porn SHOULD, whether it does is another story.
I'll reiterate what I've said earlier about Scarlet Snow and others, you invested tons of money to get these huge implants that will attract looks and thoughts on you, that should be worth something.
^I don't think it's a question of should because at the core of the problem is that if an 18-19 years old thinks that doing porn will make her rich or even well off then she was either lied to by a recruiter or she was delusional. Maybe once upon a time when there were so many studios shooting porn on a regular basis that you could have the odd performer able to make huge sums of money but that time was both short and is long gone.
As to Scarlett or any other performer who gets implants once in the industry. Most of them do not get them because they want to do more porn because I think every agent would tell them that altering their looks is a terrible idea as it will likely kill more job offers than it will create. I'm not going to speculate what other reason they have to get implants but it ain't because they think it will get them more porn offers.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Sep 10 2019 : 5:39PM
Not all agents, my best (now former) pornstar friend was pressured by her agent to get implants, that girl was only 20, had big natural boobs and naturally they become to sag, she was pressured by her agent to get a boob job, she didn't have the 5k to do it so she was forced to take a different turn and then left porn forever.
[Link]
crazyike Deactivated User
237 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 10 2019 : 6:04PM
According to one porn actress, porn stars only make about 20% of their income from porn. Their remaining 80% revenues come from strip clubs and through other avenues that I cannot mention on this forum.
20% is pretty low, but with the popularity that comes from porn they're able to charge and obtain "premium rates" when performing other "adventures" outside of porn.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Sep 11 2019 : 3:53AM
So that begs a question aside from the obvious one: "why do teen go into porn?", well these are looking for a quick cash and haven't seen anything in life so these are disillusioned, but what about real women in their 30s or 40s, why go that road and invest in surgeries to have bodies that compete with girls at least a decade younger unless there is something?
Another pornstar friend of mine told me that she had cancer and went that road to pay medical bills.
PS: for those who will say since you have so many pornstar friends, why don't you ask them and spare us this, it is a bad idea unless she is really a good friend of yours for some time, otherwise she'll ignore you or block you, a Playboy playmate did that to me.
[Link]
crazyike Deactivated User
237 Posts 9/18
Posted - Sep 11 2019 : 9:31AM
You’re living 20 years behind. Today they don’t give a shit. Everyone does collaterals with no shame and without giving a shit. From a social perspective, it affects them in no negative ways. From a mental perspective, I have no clue!
The world is different today. A chick can get gangbanged by 15 dudes on camera today and then get married to her “loving monogamous fiancé” the next day. It beats me how some men end up as that fiancé, but it is what it is.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Sep 11 2019 : 9:59AM
PERSONAL opinion, it applies to many cases in some societies, some of it are from my own experience.
They end up that because some of them have an uptight background (religious or other) and probably never had sex, gone on a date or even kissed a girl, all they do is watch porn and masturbate, and in an uncalculated, nothing to lose, I was rejected by my ugly classmate/coworker, out of nowhere move they dare talk to a pornstar or nude model (like I did) whether online or in a convention and surprise the girl says yes and accepts so here you go. Of course some guys lived to regret it and some guys had a really successful marriage better than marrying a virgin.
For instance, there are some Playboy playmates, cybergirls, amateur models and pornstars that I would marry even they had sex at least tens of times more than I did.
So you think saying I'm a pornstars is no different than saying I'm a hooker?
I'm European here we don't put over pornstars the same stigma they put in the USA but believe me it's not the same , a prostitute does get a backlash even here.
Edited by - LCF on 9/11/2019 1:53:26 PM
[Link]
Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Sep 11 2019 : 2:14PM
As I understand it, the majority of girls that enter the industry barely make enough to survive while they are actively shooting, and then when they retire or go inactive, have very little to show for it. So this would probably apply to your typical girl that comes into porn, shoots a handful of scenes, and then disappears. Girls with longer careers seem to do better because they have a plan of some type, though it's hard to know exactly what that plan is because they don't usually want to talk about it in interviews. Included in that may be "the adventures outside of porn" that we can't go into detail about on this platform.
If I wanted to know what the real deal was, how to succeed in porn (as a performer), I would seek out those with longer careers. Two that come to mind off the top of my head are Brandi Love and Ariana Marie. Lisa Ann is another but she's into the content production and ownership side of the business now, so it's a bit more obvious how she's making her money.
It's been alleged that Kendra Sutherland has several thousand paid snapchat followers. I can't recall offhand what she charges, but if you have numbers in the thousands that are paying you just a few bucks a month, that can be big money. Of course, youth and beauty fade so that won't last forever.
I am just a simple man trying to make my way in this universe. 237 Posts 2/13
Posted - Sep 11 2019 : 2:41PM
Please keep an open mind from what I have to say about US vs Europe in regards to nudity and adult materials in general.
I am neither, so my opinion should be considered neutral and I have got it from observation, of course you know your countries and cultures better.
I sense that europeans are more open to sexuality and nudity in general even in mainstream movies, pretty much every european actress has done nudes, also european censorship is more lenient towards nudity (Swimming Pool was -10 in France while it NC-17 and edited to an R), so is porn, european ones are open to anal more than their US counterparts.
Posted - Aug 13 2019 : 7:03AM
[Tweet is no longer available]