Im not happy that the traditional DP shot seems to have gone out fashion at the moment. Most DP's are seen from the side for a lot of time where you cant see the penetration. Personally i like it where camera man gets between the two guys and gets a close up of the penetration (cowgirl of doogy are both great and i like to see both). Some of the hottest studios like DVLX and RLD are like this at the moment. A classic example is No Come Dodging Allowed 2 (great facials but lame DP's)
Does anyone know any studios that still shoot DP's close up and from behind?
Spod,my brother,I feel your pain!There are a few of us on this board who are very picky(and vocal)when it comes to DP camera angels.
Although I don't think I'm being even picky,it's seemingly a trend among many companies lately to shoot from the side or quarter angle.And NEVER let us have the "crotch shot"that I prefer to see,at least a few seconds of it.Some guys shoot the side angle and just pan back and forth between the face and lower body,I hate that!
This is why I avoid Vince Voyuer directed DP scenes,and John Strong sometimes forgets he can move the camera too.It's like a bunch of people started shooting DP's the same way.Perhaps it's easier for the editor.
i can't speak for the other studios or producers but here is my 2cents.
Our d.p.'s are shot crotch on (mostly), but recently we have gotten a request for more side shots. The reason given; the fellas like to see the shape and curve of the female's ass.
I'm not sure if this is because we are mainly an ethnic company "Big butt lovers", or if this is what directors are aiming for in the general market.
I think a mixture of both styles give little for all.
I would like to see someone shoot a DP in 1st person point of view (POV). Private gets it, but only for a split second, in "More than she Expected" and Mike John gets close in "No Cum Dodging Allowed #2" with the camera directly above Briana Blaze's face during her DP (which I think was great BTW), but unfortunately with no POV penetration shot (cum on Mike I know you can do it!). Or what about a POV blowjob and pop shot while the babe is getting DPed? Now that is something I would like to see.
Bawdy. _________________________________ Bawdy by name, Bawdy by nature
oh yes, I agree, Mike Jonh is the worst of all director that do that. (well Erik Everhart is right second) ...all I can say about Mike Jonh videos is great swallowing, ..lamest dps ever captured on camera. He forgets that there are some of us that would like to see frontal view of the girl's ass when she is dp'ed also. That view from the side (quarter angle) is not bad, the problem is when the camera stays there for the entire duration of the dp. Then the quarter angle becomes b-o-r-i-n-g! ..I used to like Erik videos alot, but these days I buy them less and less, the guy is hopeless since his camera man is Mike Jonh in most of his videos if not all. ...some one said you can't make everybody happy, ..to that I say: yes you can. mix the angles show both. Mike and ERik videos have dps that last usually 4-5 minutes at least. If someone don't like the crotch shot (that will be weird ) or the quarter angle he can always fast forward to the part he likes. ...for me today there is nothing to fast forward to in those videos, so I try to keep myself away from them.
unfortunately there's a dilemma when it comes to shooting 'gonzo'd.p. scenes; forego the action for a straight shot, or use the energy of the d.p. to carry over into the scene? It's not the late 80's people, if you want that kind of footage you gotta invest in more 'feature' flix.besides, one can only gaze into the dueling tea-bags for so long, especially when holding the camera.personally, the hottest d.p. scenes always seem to capture the broad looking back whilst being banged heavily, to show just how 'into' it she really is. it's all opinion anyways isnt it? lates Von-S
I personally hate it when they shoot a DP all in close-ups. I want to see a wide angle where we can see the girls face also and her legs and feet of course. RLD movies are the worst when it comes to shooting DP's. Those directors have no clue how to work the camera and that's why I never buy their movies.
As is often said,it's not rocket science,it's simply keeping the camera as still as possible while capturing the action.
I'm not saying I want it to be always "crotch on",I do like to see the girl"looking back"as von_swine said,and I do like many different angles.Some of these brilliant artists shoot dp's so bad you can't even tell if the guys are doing double vag or dp(hello Woodburn). It just seems people are lazy in how they shoot lately.
I realize positions and camera angles are a matter of personal taste but I am tending to agree more with people who say gonzo is going stale.Sometimes I can close my eyes and when I open them I will know exactly where the action will be,it's so predictable.
If this keeps up,I might have to take drastic measures and start having intercourse myself!!!!!
standing dp i find the hottest especially when the camera man gets down directly underneath the girl so we can see the penetration in all its glory, i find the jules jordan shoots really good dp footage, shooting from the side, close-up quarter angle, close-up and also a medium to long shot sometimes.
Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01
Posted - Jan 25 2004 : 10:36PM
The solution is not all that difficult. It is to move slowly across different positions so that the viewer gets to see all perspectives when the camera pans across the action. The trick is good camera motion without herky jerky motion and to pan. Do not cut between the scenes as the continuity is now lost. The cameraperson should slowly move across from closeup to side to rear to front in a slow and continuous taping with full conitnuity and without random cuts. Nothing pisses me off more than cuts with face, then cut to action (without face), then cut to somewhere else.
I could not agree more. Some camera guys in the business should really take notes from your post. I always find it curious how people can watch the exact same thing and get two completely different variations of what they just saw. Bad camera work in adult films has always been my biggest complaint but I see more and more improvement in almost every new film I watch. I use to hate the way RLD shot their DP scenes but, with the exception of Vince Voyeur, I think most of the directors are better than before. I love watching DP action but not when it's the only focal point of the scene and I hate the constant DP close-up, then rush to a close-up of the face, then back to the DP close-up. The scene leaves so much to be desired overall when it's filmed that way but it's hard for camera guys to get out of their personal constraints of shooting. I've noticed they are getting better.
If you want to see DP closeups, watch a few Private titles.
I agree w/ Lori on having the camera zoom around w/o any continuity breaks. I've only seen one scene that was like this w/ the Private videos and that was the one in Brides&Bitches w/ Michelle Wild. But even that was only for a short segment and not the entire scene.
Flipping back and forth during closeups, especially when there are multiple couples, is totally disorienting..
Watch any dramatic television show or movie and just count on your fingers how often the camera angle changes in the coarse of five minutes. A good editor moves the viewer through different points of view so smoothly the viewer often doesn't even realize that the camera angle has changed.
So in answer to my original question, can anyone suggest any dvd's or studios which specialise in long raw close up crotch shot dp's? Im after really well lit detail so it looks like your face is next to the action!
I like close-ups as much as (and probably more than) the next guy. But don't you get bored when they just go on and on and on and on? Tell me what you're seeing between the 11th and 20th second of the shot that you don't see in the first 10 seconds of the shot. Expand my mind!
...the same question should be asked to camera guys like Mike Jonh or Erik Everheart that show 5 minutes straight of the quater angle when the girl is dp'ed. Don't you get bored when they go on and on and on and on and on? ...I have seen Red Light dps where this view from the side lasted 10 minutes, besides some zoom in/out that was it, period. ...I mean, in no way, I'm saying don't show the quarter angle..BUT.. extremes are bad, the hottest camera angle (close up or wide angle) will suck if they abuse it. Move the camera brother, show me a second point of view for a change! ..It won't kill you. ..Variety is the name of the game.I really would like to answer your question my friend but most Red Light directors don't even show the 10 seconds that you are talking about.
After having seen ALL of our DP line..(that's a whole lot of double penetration) I have to say that I think Alex does a very good job of making sure that you can see the DP action up close, and that you get good shots of the girls. And I'm saying this objectively. No really, I swear.
DVSX. com - Free pics, free clips, NO pop ups, simply the BEST adult studio website.
I haven't seen work from Mr. Everhard or Mr. John, so I can't speak to their work directly. I will say this:
One of the most important differences between film and real life is that real life takes place in one long (well hopefully long) continuous take; film is made up a little bits and pieces, usually no longer than 30 seconds and mostly much shorter.Even when you're asleep, the "camera keeps rolling".
I don't completely understand the psycho perceptive aspects of it, but for whatever the reason, changing camera angles (when done artfully) seems to create the best similitude (are you listenning Walter?) of the change of emphasis we experience as real life unfolds in front of us in real time. That is to say, most audiences will more easily forget they are watching a film when it is well edited vs. watching the same scene unfold in one long take.
I can barely make it through the opening of Touch of Evil without getting a little restless; I can't imagine 5 (let alone 10!) minutes of one camera angle of DP or any other single sex act. I'm not sure I could take 5 straight minutes of beautifully photographed, beautifully edited DP. I guess I just have a short attention span.
thank you for the support, sun, you publicity whore, you.
ok it's time i chime in. i often shoot 2nd camera for alex, so i can vouch for what sun just said. so with 2 cameras covering all the angles, there's no reason why we wouldn't be able to provide a balanced mix of close-ups and wides for all to enjoy. if that is indeed what you are looking for, then may i humbly suggest any dp scene lensed by alex ladd; he shoots lots of them outside of the dp series as well. *side note: 'double parked' did get a nomination for best videography, if that means anything to you.
I have actually found the Double Parked dvds I've seen to be pretty good.For a series that is all about DP,it damn well better have some variety in camera angles.I did have some issues with the lighting/videography in one volume,where it seemed too dark/shadowy in the crotch areas.Good series,but belive it or not,I haven't watched every volume because the girls don't really do it for me.I think I've personally seen enough of certain Euro girls,but that's just me.
Dreaming of Double Parked:Courtney Devine,Lani Kaluha,Misty Mendez..............
You might enjoy the three-way scene with Judy Star in Internally Yours #3 (Elegant Angel). It's directed by Mason and does have rough themes. Like most of Mason's scenes she does an above average job of capturing everything the scene has to offer, in this case, including the DP action. Have fun.
Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01
Posted - Jan 26 2004 : 9:43PM
The problem with most changing angles is the cut is too abrupt and without verification shots. You see the dp in closeup and suddenly the camera cuts to the face. When that happens, an internal voice in me says "fake fake fake." How do I know that the action is real? For it to be real, I need to see the initial penetration with whole body and face shots or pans from the body to the face. Whenever there are cuts, I do not know for sure whether it is the same body or whether a body double is used. There have been many fakes even in porn so fakes are not out of the question. I know that it is probably not cheaper to use a fake unless the fake scene is ripped from another scene but cuts without continuity is very unsatisfying.
Staying too long in one position is also boring and for me, the best way to capture the scene is with the camera panning around in a slow and non jerky way. This means that the cameraperson must be good or a good professional stand be used. Too often, porn camerawork goes the cheap way of having two cameras, each capturing a different view somehat sloppily and then trying to put everything together with editing fixes. The editing should never be used to fix camera problems. The best solution is to have the camera capture everything coherently and minimize the editing. Edits cannot correct problematic camerawork. However, very few cameramen can shot a long scene of 20 minutes without having jerky camerawork, but it can be done.
I really don't know why spod mentioned DVSX and Red Light in the same sentence. There is a big different of style there. At least in my book you guys are more than all right. ..But trying to understand what spod really meant, maybe just maybe he was talking about that he would like to see more of this angle in your dps
I really don't know why spod mentioned DVSX and Red Light in the same sentence. There is a big different of style there. At least in my book you guys are more than all right. ..But trying to understand what spod really meant, maybe just maybe he was talking about that he would like to see more of this angle in your dps
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If that's all Wally go check out "Inch Freaks" I gona open myself up to a world of hurt here! But I try to cover all the the shots in my DP's but if I am missing something check me on it. You guys have many more eyes then I do and can keep me up to date on things you like and in turn I can put them into sum steamy sexy scenes! Keep up the good work! Yani Z
If that's all Wally go check out "Inch Freaks" I gona open myself up to a world of hurt here! But I try to cover all the the shots in my DP's but if I am missing something check me on it. You guys have many more eyes then I do and can keep me up to date on things you like and in turn I can put them into sum steamy sexy scenes! Keep up the good work! Yani Z
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your response is very refreshing Yani. Usually (some) porn insiders/camera guys get offended when someone complaints about their camera work or a specific angle. ..good to know you are open for honest feedback. I'll check out the Inch Freak video
props to RonK for (somewhat) chastising the two camera set-up for what it is; an excuse to be sloppy. at gangbangsquad and teensforcash we always ran two cameras which drove me totally insane. bad porno relies on post-production to clean up a director's/shooters inconcistencies, and in this day and age (even on a competition level) thats un-acceptable. the game is too fast now to slow down or skip a beat, and that's why some of the 'name' director's in gonzo have a LOT of stuff that looks similar; because you HAVE to stick w/a formula that's tried and true. this is business people, and TONS of money is at stake, and that's what makes this forum so golden, the fact that all of us can have input both positive and negitive to try and keep this medium as fresh as possible. Von S
I agree with just about everything RonK wrote, although so much has been said by everyone (dps are probably the hottest scenes in porn) I'm losing track. Bottom line is dps are better than ever. They're shot better than ever. And RDL does a great job. Porn has come a long way on this one. Camera wise it's very seldom to see a truly terrible one now and they used to be ruined all the time by the old time directors. All those cuts from close ups of faces to tight shots of the dp. It ruined scenes. Like RonK said, you just knew it coulda been faked. You do need those verification shots. But you get a great girl doing a dp, it's fucking gold and I don't mind a long quarter angle shot holding on the action so you can see everything. It's great action with a great view. Porn ain't film and the same editing rules don't apply. Edits kill porn. The less the better. Great action shots and pans cover everything and verify everything. Be nice if they weren't herky jerky but I don't even mind that as long as it's a pan and not a cut. And like Von Swine said, I also love a girl's nasty look back at the action. That's great stuff. But the actors turned directors now are doing great with as few edits as possible. The goal here is not to be Francis Ford Coppola. It's to make great porn. I saw the recent Teen Meat 2 and the only thing that looked good was the kid directors name in the credits. (Three names, just like FFC!) Porn is basically pretty simple. Although achieving may not be. Great girls, hot action, good looking video, and good camera coverage (even if it's stays static on a great shot) with as few edits as humanly possible. And I'd add anals, dps, and swallowing. And if we can get to see great girls (like, hopefully Teagan) do stuff like this, it's kinda hard to complain. That ain't boring.
You bring up an interesting point: editing is consistently bad in porn. We get everything from obvious inserts of close-ups of stunt-doubles to truly dizzying continuity breaks ("Hey, where'd her clothes go?") and it is taken as axiomatic that editing can only make the porn watching experience worst. (If all you ever drank was Budweiser you wouldn't think beer was very good either,) and many porn enthusiasts' ideal of a scene is one long take. I'd agree, if I have to choose between bad editing and no editing, I'll take no editing, and use the FF button as needed.
Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01
Posted - Jan 27 2004 : 9:47AM
I too agree with Sammyboy. Too much porn is shot lackadaisical and the cameraman tries to catch a few seconds of this action and a few seconds of that action and leaves it to post production to fix any problems. The problem is the entire approach is problematic and fixing a mess is not good. For example, an outtake scene of a recent release shows the director/cameraman and well known porno star holding the camera in a lackadaisical manner and catching a few seconds of this and a few seconds of that with a few smart ass comments thrown in. He is obviously not bothered to try to catch the best angles and to catch the action with continuity, and the end results clearly shows. With editing, some of the mess can be fixed but the end result is not satisfying. What I want is a cameraman who will willingly sacrifice his back to stay hunched in an awkward position for 45 minutes (or however long it takes -- 10 hours if necessary) catching everything that should be caught in the best way. Editing then polishes the scene.
Also, the editor needs to have some soul when catching dp's. I have seen edits where a .5 second segment is shown just before penetration without face. Would it hurt if the edit included 2 or 3 seconds with a face shot and then show the penetration? The editor in this case lacked the artistic soul to portray the scene or is just sloppy or careless.
Most dps are poorly presented because of sloppy camerawork, lighting, editing, or directing.
Of course, the action in the scene, chemistry between talents, and attractiveness of the talent are also important.
I like that camera angle the best, as long as the director can keep the guy's asshole out of the picture.
I also like the 1/4 side view (best way to describe it), where the camera is to the side, but pointed towards the crotch at an angle, so that we see penetration.
But what I hate most of all is quick editing, where the camera angle jumps around. I'd say the average DP scene should have about half as many edits, with shots that last twice as long, which would result in the same time length.
Why thank you Wally. Being more than all right can only be a good thing.
In reference to the comment about us using only European girls, our newest release of Double Parked 7 we do have American girls in the cast, the very sexy Aria, and Jordan Styles. We are planning on using more American talent because more girls are starting to do DPs. So maybe we can change your mind.
DVSX. com - Free pics, free clips, NO pop ups, simply the BEST adult studio website.
Yes Wally, thats exactly the angle i mean (cowgirl or reverse cowgirl preferably both in the same scene) close up and sustained for at least a little while.
Sunchen I do have a couple of double parked dvd's (1 and 4) and they are good. I havent bought any more yet though as i prefer both pop shots to be facial or internals (not on the tits/neck or ass cheeks). Just my own personal taste.
you are so right, Manolo. And that really sucks! ..hey, spod, if you are still looking for good dps, look for Jules Jordan videos or this new Anabolic director Chico Wang. ...just stay away from Mike John/Erik Everhard stuff and you'll be safe.
TonyC, pardon my French . But the seconds numbered 11 to 20 may be the difference for the male who is watching the scene with one of his hands strategically positioned and moving .
“The world is full of people who want to screw up what we love.” - Michael Jackson (the Beer Hunter); 19 June 2003. My adult bookmarks.
If you like DPs Airtight-Fanatic I just finished Double Stuffed 9 Which has 5 DPs in it. I move more or less depending on how the scene moves me! I get shots up close and wide. Side shots, between the leg under shots, and straight down pile drive shots, even upside down shots! Since this trend is old I sure most people don’t shot one way anymore. I also shot a 3 blond team doing the nasty DP a while back. It has inbetween the leg shots :-) lots of them :P You get to see two full pussies instead of hairy man ass and the balls are made out of hard rubber but so are the dicks. Yeah it’s a girl-girl-girl scene lol. But DP in it is hot! It should be coming out in Nasty Girls 35. Hope this helps Yani Z
Yes , variety is vital . Thanks for the information also . I have " Double stuffed 2 " , where I like the scene featuring Alexia Knight . But overall , in the video there is too much DPP and DAP , which I don´t like .
Also , I don´t get aroused by females using dildos , but each to his own . Seems that I am a " plain and simple Dp " - purist ...
I will be checking the cast list for " Double stuffed 9 " .
Don’t want to steer your wrong Double Stuffed I shot starting from DS 7 has lots of DA DV as well. I know sales will hate me for this but if you really not into DA and DV then these might not be the video for you as there tons of it, as you say I savored the moment. DS 8 hasn’t come out yet I notice but should be coming out soon. Hopefully no later then Jan.
The Girl movie (Nasty Girls) is just that so you know what you’re getting. I mixed it up, some scenes have toys others do not. Like you guys I get bored easy and try to mix it up. With 5-6 scenes I consider each scene as a min movie.
Take a look at Balls Deep I started shooting it at BD9. I have anywhere from 2-4 DPs in those. Talent has also told me that I’ve been nominated for best 3-way sex scene. But since it’s Anabolic and they don’t advertise in the AVN I don’t think it’s going any farther. Also if you’re into the interracial part of it Up Your Ass has some DP’s in it as well. Ok hope this helps out Yani Z
