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I like DVD Advantage for their great prices and speedy service, but I do have a complaint that I think others should be aware of.
Recently I ordered a DVD for a birthday gift for a friend. Because of DVD Advantage $5 flat rate shipping, I decided to tag a few cheaper DVDs on for myself. Shortly thereafter I was informed via email that the DVD I ordered for my friend (Girls in Blue)was out of stock. They shipped my DVDs and CANCELLED my order for Girls in Blue. What I can't understand is why they cancelled the out of stock DVD instead of just sending it when it came back in stock. While the DVDs I did get I wanted, the whole point of my purchase went down the tubes. Had I known that this would have happened I wouldn't have ordered at all! I just wanted the gift!
Many times I've had ordered a DVD that turned out to be out of stock at Five Star. They send what is available and about a week or two later the out of stock one arrives by itself. No having to order it again or pay more shipping charges!
This is the second time this happened to me at DVD Advantage. Once before I ordered Nurses of the 407 ($20 at the time I believe) and tagged on two $6 DVDs with it. Nurses was out of stock and my order for it cancelled. But I still got the cheapies and paid an extra $5 for shipping making them not worth it. I thought maybe the first time had been a fluke, but I guess not.
In my opinion that's not professionalism. I ordered something and expect to get it, even if that means having to wait longer for that particular one. Do they think that just because its out of stock that I don't want it anymore? I see the flat rate shipping as a plus and it's a reason i shop there but I dont want it used against me. I would like to see them change this policy regarding the out of stock DVDs especially since they don't list 'in stock' or 'out of stock' on their site. How am I supposed to know I won't get what I want until it's too late?
I plan to stay away from them for a while because of this. I like to know that I will get what I ordered and not end up paying $5 shipping on a $6 DVD because the others are out of stock!
Hi! Black Coffee This is Michael from DVD Advantage.
As everyone on the forum knows, I am very committed to our customer service. And – very sensitive to the needs of our customers.
It is exactly this commitment that is the foundation for 2 of our policies. The first is that we DO NOT back-order merchandise. The second (which is related to the back-order issue) is that we do not pre-sell any NEW RELEASES
Why – simple: our ability to send you the DVD’s you want is entirely dependant on the availability of the DVD’s from the manufacturing studios.
On NEW RELEASES, studios are notorious for announcing the release date, and then pushing it back weeks, if not months. This is very aggravating to a customer, and a nightmare to any company that actually responds to inquiries from its customers – as we do!
With regard to back-ordered items, the same problem exists. Specifically – if we are crediting off an item from your order, it is because we just ran out of stock, and the manufacturer does not have that title presently available. Generally – the manufacturers do not tell us that titles are unavailable until we place a re-order. If they let us know earlier, then we would set our inventory control level to our stock on hand.
We built DVD ADVANTAGE on 2 principles – Lowest Prices and World Class Customer Service. I hope that you understand our policy not to back-order DVD’s – it is because we want our customers to be satisfied!
Please feel free to call me with any questions. Our toll-free number is 1-877-707-5662.
MCR - Here's a suggestion to help avoid the back-order to cancelled item issue: When an item is out of stock or unavailable to ship for any reason don't allow people to add it to their shopping cart. That way there aren't any surprises when they find out a DVD didn't ship.
Drew, when I know I can't get anymore of a title I do delete it from the site. What were talking about here is when we run out of a title and place a re-order from the studio only to be told that they are out of stock and are waiting for fresh merchandise, which they won't have for at least another etc, etc,. If the studios would tell us there wouldn't be this problem. MICHAEL
A simple solution to this problem that will satisfies both seller and buyer is to inform the buyer of any changes made to the original order and wait for the responses before proceeding. It a little more work for the seller but in the long run, everyone will be happy :)
I agree. That's a great idea Osiris. Had I been informed of the changes to my orders, I know would have cancelled both times.
Also thanks for responding to my complaint Michael. I appreciate you taking the time to try and serve your customers. Thanks for explaining your policy, but I doubt I will be buying from DVD Advantage anytime soon because of that policy unless something changes. [Maybe something like Osiris' idea]
I just had this happen to me on a DVDAdvantage order. What really pisses me off (besides the facts that there was no correspondence that an item was being cancelled, the cancelled item appearing on the invoice, the cancelled item being charged to my credit card, and an e-mail reply that was completely inappropriate for the problem that I was asking about before finally telling me that the item was on backorder and a promise to credit my card for the missing title) is that the title that they cancelled (Skin Dance) HAS NOT been removed from the site and people are still capable of ordering it.
So Michael, maybe you can explain which part of my experience with your company would be considered "World Class Customer Service", because I certainly can't figure it out.
Yup, I just received my first DVDAdvantage order as well, missing 2 movies. Quite an annoying policy. I understand why a company would choose not to inform you & just ship anyway ("if they don't know, they won't cancel") but it's really not a good way to get any repeat customers. Who would want to order again when they don't know what they'll actually be receiving?
Another thing that I found annoying is that I ordered on Sunday & expected the package to ship on Monday, but apparently it didn't even go out until Wednesday. What's the point of priority shipping when it takes 2-3 days just to leave the building?
Anyway, I probably won't order from them again. However, since this was my first online order of adult dvds, I don't really know what to expect from the other companies. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
I thinks Drew's suggestion sounds very simple, and Michael didn't really address this. I don't understand why their inventory control is tied in with the studios, if the studios are the cause of the problem. As soon as their (ADA's) stock on hand is depleted, why don't they put up an 'Out of Stock' sign? I've had Black Coffee's experience, though not necessarily at DVD Advantage, more than once. I insist on knowing at check-out, or at least before my order is shipped, just what is being sent. Can Michael give me any fill-rate stats that could persuade me to shop there, because they DO have some good deals, but this is really a major point with me.
It seems like this is a pretty big issue based on the feedback here. I'm curious now. Here's a little non-scientific survey.
1) Have you ever ordered from DVD Advantage?
2) If you have never ordered from them are the issues mentioned above the types of problems that would keep you from ordering from them?
3) If you have ordered from them have you had items cancelled in this fashion? Was this your last order with them?
4) Do the low prices compensate for the lack of back-order capabilities?
I'm not looking for bashing here. I would simply like your opinions and constructive feedback. It's entirely possible for a store to not realise the nature of a problem without a decent amount of feedback.
*If you have ordered from them have you had items cancelled in this fashion? Was this your last order with them?
I had several discs cancelled in this fashion (naturally the ones I most wanted) and when I e-mailed CS it was a "who's on first sitation" where it took several tries to get them to simply say "they don't do backorders"-- and even then they still didn't say that. If I'd the site stated somewhere that there was the possibility that the stock was not available and that they didn't do backorders I would have definately made different choices. I did order from them one more time after that but until the shipment actually arrived I was nervous that I wasn't getting the discs I wanted and have made the decision never again.
*Do the low prices compensate for the lack of back-order capabilities?
Anybody can offer cheap prices on non-existant merchandise.
2. I am concerned if out of stock items are not indicated to the customer and charged to the credit card. I think a store should tell the customer about out of stock items promptly and definately should not charge for them. In fact, I thought the rule was that retailers could not charge for mail order items until they ship.
3. I have not experienced these problems personally. I was happy with my orders all the way around.
4. Low prices are great, but in all honesty, I do want to know what is going to ship and what exactly my charges are.
I ordered from DVDEmpire recently, and some of the items were out of stock. I was informed right away, and they gave me the option of shipping twice (and paying multiple shipping charges) or waiting until everything was in stock and paying one charge. These options seemed OK -- at least they gave me control over the process.
I've made a number of orders from Advantage since they've been open. I like the lower prices they tend to have and the service has been exceptional. The flat rate shipping, for me, is a great deal (the only better shipping is at 5 Star-if you buy larger numbers, it's free there).
If I were placing orders of one or two dvd's, the flat rate wouldn't be competitive but let's face it-my orders tend to be $200 or larger at a time. I can understand where someone ordering a small number of movies would be miffed if they ran into an out of stock problem. It has happened to me a few times but again, the size of the orders tend to lower my shipping with them to a negligible amount. I know Michael has run into a lot of static from other companies and people who are shills for those companies. Luckily, the complaint here is a bit more general in nature.
I agree with Drew that unless a change in shipping policies occurs, like a hold until order complete feature, I'd rather have something prevent me from being able to order from a site. It might require more work on Michael's part but it'd be a big help.
In answer to Drew's questions: 1) Yes, I've ordered from them a lot. I only do so because they have such a great level of service at great prices so often.
2) N/A
3) I have had a few dvd's cancelled and it wasn't my last order with them.
4) Generally, the lower prices compensate for the lack of back order capabilities. I think it could be worked out where the best of both worlds might be achieved though-great prices and backorder capability or a feature preventing OOS orders from being placed. At very least, an option to either cancel an order or hold off on an order should be added.
1) Yes. 2) Although this question is asked of those who have never ordered from DVD Advantage before, I think that my last experience will certainly make me think twice about buying from DVD Advantage again. 3) Yes, my problem happened with my most recent order. 4) Their prices are good, but they're not THAT good.
DVD Advantage's business process could actually be considered a form of "Bait & Switch". On my order, the title that didn't ship was the primary title that I was ordering. I added the other titles as "I may as well" titles. Had the first title not been advertised, I probably wouldn't have ordered anything at all, and added those titles to whatever site I DID purchase the first title from.
I had a long chat with Jon at DVD Advantage today over the issues in this thread. Jon is one of the owners over there and from my conversation I could tell that he is very concerned about making sure their customers are satisfied.
First let me start by saying that they are listenting and are very aware of the issues. They are currently working on ways to resolve them. They have some major changes in the works for their store, one of which is real-time inventory status. (They will also be adding real-time online order status and tracking too.) Jon explained that their current site needs to be completely redesigned from the ground up to support real-time inventory. Jon mentioned that DVD Advantage has recently switched ISPs and hired a new ecommerce development group. He and Michael are working directly with the new developers to implement the business process changes required to support their customers.
I asked him if he had a schedule for the real-time inventory and other new features. He didn't have any concrete dates yet but estimated a completely new order processing system would be in place within a few months.
Someone emailed me this afternoon inquiring about why I sound like a cheerleader for DVD Advantage in my post above. I think they had a valid point so I wanted to address it.
I called Advantage today to discuss the issues in this thread. Adult DVD Talk is very selective in choosing the stores represented here. When we hear valid complaints about any store on ADT we investigate. In the post above I was merely relaying the things I learned during the conversation. I think it's important for us to share this type of info with our community members. Had I not been impressed with Jon's plan of action and responses to my questions my post above would have been very different. I was relieved to learn that they are actively pursuing solutions to these problems and thought that many forum members would be as well.
Personally, I am pleased to read the DVD Advantages realizes that this is a problem, and is doing something to fix it (as opposed to calling is "World Class Customer Service" as they did in an above post).
I hope that they will let us know when their upgrade is complete so that I can begin doing business with them again.
Drew, as in almost any net related activity, some people can't read between the lines. When you pose a question to people who have already made up their minds, they may decide that you are playing cheerleader. I'll readily admit when I get good or great service from a company-as I have with DVD Advantage, Five Star, and some others-I'll spread the word, just as I'll relate problem orders too.
The bottomline is that Advantage took the comments posted and are actively working on a solution to make us happy. If that isn't enough to at least consider doing business with them, no one else will make them happy. It's like when a company offers a sale for $5 off each dvd and someone complains that shipping is 50 cents higher per order.
Is Advantage perfect? No, and neither are any of the other great affiliates here-they all have quirks. Which quirks bother people the most is a personal matter. I have yet to be disappointed by either Advantage or 5 Star without them fixing the problem for me or giving me a price break/other incentive on my next order.
PS: To me, "world class service" sometimes translates into bad service-all the companies that ship to the entire world have huge problems when doing so. Just a thought...
I, too, would like to thank DVD Advantage in advance. When the problem has been remedied I will begin shopping there again. Please keep us posted.
I also want to thank Drew & Steph for creating Adult DVD Talk, otherwise I don't think this problem would have ever been addressed seriously. It's great to see consumers banding together to bring about improvements. And it's great to have a place to voice our opinions and concerns. It feels good to be able to make a difference! (Okay, I'll end the speech here before it gets out of hand!)
Well, it isn't the minor cost overcharge; it's the principle. If a company can't stand by its word, it's not going to gain trust by its customers.
How about when a company charges you $1.50 per order over than what the S&H should be? And not just one order but for at least 5? Does this now warrant a complaint?
Osiris4isis, I suppose if you mean that you placed an order and they charged you more than the agreed upon price-I'd hold a picket in the line beside you. If you mean that they have higher shipping prices all the time that add up to more than the USPS/UPS/Fed Ex/Etc label, I'd have to disagree. "Shipping" is the actual cost of the mailing service whereas "handling" can mean almost anything. One of the reasons I stopped buying much on ebay several years back was when people started boosting thier profits by adding outrageous shipping & handling charges. I started bidding again when I found a few dealers that would be fair.
One of the reasons I like Advantage so much is that shipping is a fixed rate, regardless of how many dvd's I buy. Those who know me, many such people are regulars here, know that I buy a bunch at a time so the cost averages out to a very small amount. 5 Star is great because I order more than 4 every time so I get free shipping. Some of the others hold specials from time to time and that's when I bleed my credit cards dry (recent maninstream orders totaled over 4 digits...).
I understand the principles involved, I just felt obligated to point out that the overall savings should be factored into the equation. Advantage has stated they're working on a solution and they've always come through in the past so I have no reason to doubt them now. Yay!
Its only bother me when I get overcharged AFTER the order has been placed. I still have the invoices that I printed out for each orders when it was made which are different from the invoices that arrived with the order. I am going to dispute the overcharges.
As far as companies that has high S&H cost; all I can say is customers are smart, they will consider the total cost of buying something and not just the item cost.
You are right about auctions; not just ebay, but ubid and egghead also overcharge their S&H.
I think that it is great that stores like dvdadvantage has fix S&H and stores like fivestardvd has free S&H for ordering more than x amount of items; it encourages bulk purchases (a win-win situation :)
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - May 21 2001 : 11:22AM
osiris4isis
please let me know the name of the retailer via email (webmaster@adultdvdtalk.com). even if the retailer is not listed on our site, we regularly get requests from new stores to be added. charging more after the order has been submitted is illegal.
Hi adultdvdlinks, this is Michael from dvdadvantage.com. There is just to many ways to answer this question so I'll just say we list and stock on a regular basis well over 8,000 titles. Happy shopping. MICHAEL
OOP'S, I guess that figure was only wishfull dreaming, my mistake. I thought we had many more than only 4,096. But it won't be long before were there at the rate were adding new titles. MCR
I've had a basket full of DVDs at DVDAdvantage for days now, but haven't bothered completing the order as I'm wary of not receiving some of the titles. Unless this is addressed soon, I'll probably just look up all the titles on another site and just place my order there.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Jun 2 2001 : 9:16PM
DVDAdvantage has always impressed me from the view of a production company. Michael NEVER calls to order 1 copy of a title that he needs. If he notices he's running (I can only guess less than 5?), he'll order 5 copies all at once. John I also love that they offer our titles at a lower price. I can tell you that Michael is a very strong negotiator, and was incredibly pleased to see that he passes his savings on to his customers.
As far as the back order problem, I agree that this a large problem that would upset me if it happened to me as a customer. Take Michael's advice and call their customer service line if you are really afraid. I'm pretty sure that they will gladly spend a minute on the phone with you so that you can feel confident enough that the DVDs you want are in stock, and then put your order through.
In case you think there's favoritism, I can't force you to believe me, but I don't often come to this section of the forum. I would speak up for any of the retail sites that I think do a good job of representing Evil Angel's titles.
Finally, I would suggest that you send emails to the production companies who sell their discs to a site that you have a strong complaint on. Believe me, we don't like doing business with people that make our customers unhappy.
However, the Out Of Stock problem is often the production companies fault. (Thankfully, usually not Evil Angel. Although we have missed a few street dates, once we have released a title, it is always in stock.) I can't speak for other manufacturing/production companies.
You can always tell when Advantage has a great sale (either % off order or on Evil Angel dvd's) because you'll see me review a bunch the following week. That's because I wait for the sales and then scoop up a half dozen or so titles.
Drew, I know that at some point you posted a list of requirements for a retailer to become one of the ADT stores.
I haven't been able to find it that post. Would you please list these requirements again.
The reason that I ask this is that I was one of the people who's credit card information was compromised a few weeks ago by the problem that A&B Sound had on their web site.
This got me thinking about the DVD Advantage inventory problem and wondering "If they can't do something as basic to on-line retailing as integrating their Inventory and Sales modules, what should make me think that they are any more competent with my credit card informtation?"
The only saving grace is that I know that you have requirements that the retailers must meet. I have to believe that at some level of data security is one of them.
By the way, you might want to give some consideration to requiring that your retailers be able to tie inventory to their sales system in order to prevent problems like this from occurring .
Bill, no online stores have perfect inventory systems and the ones that provide you with an in stock estimate are often wrong. I've ordered a lot of stuff over the years and every store that claimed to have an accurate inventory has proven to be wrong at least once, usually more. I'd like such a system too though.
I think Advantage is working to improve their system as we speak and others have, in the past, upgraded in response to various complaints. Empire usually has a pretty good handle on their inventory although they have had their share of problems too.
Minimum qualifications for affiliate status: treat the customers well, pay ADT on time, provide the needed information for the database, etc. Right?
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Posted - Jun 3 2001 : 1:39PM
Bill - We do have some basic requirements of retailers (secure server, physical address posted on site, timely response to inquiries, etc.) But we also look at a store's potential and willingness to spend money/time to improve their store. DVD Advantage is working on a real-time inventory system - it's actually a lot more expensive and time consuming than you'd think. Had they said 'screw the customer our system is fine the way it is' then they wouldn't be on our site. But that is not their attitude. They want to fix the problem and have shown us that they are working toward that solution.
We recognize that this is a problem. DVD Advantage recognizes that this is a problem. However, we would not remove a store from our site that has so much to offer adult DVD shoppers.
Every day I get emails from new stores wanting to be on our site. I look through their site and think what does this store have to offer that other stores don't? That question is very easy to answer with all of our long-term retail partners, including DVD Advantage.
Steph, I hate to disagree with you, but no...it's not. Before I continue, let me explain what I do for a living. My title is "IS Manager of Warehouse, Inventory and Financial Systems". Among my responsibilities, I design and manage the development of mainframe software doing exactly what we are talking about for a direct marketing company that processes and ships between 30,000 and 500,000 orders per day (depending on the time of year). We support mail order in the US, Canada and the UK as well as the Internet and multiple Continuity programs.
Inventory does NOT need to be real time in order for a web site to apply the basic inventory principle of "If I don't have it, and can't backorder it, then I can't sell it".
If the inventory is not being shared across multiple fulfillment systems, all they need to do is to add an Inventory Quantity field to their Product Database that is loaded with the initial inventory quantity of that item. Whenever they sell that item, they subtract from that amount. If that amount reaches zero, don't let the customer order it.
Every day, you take a feed from your warehouse (inventory) system of all of the inventory adjustments for the day (excluding the shipping of orders that have already been counted when the item was sold). You then add (or subtract) the inventory adjustments for each item to the Quantity on the Product Database. This is NOT rocket science. Receive a shipment...add to your inventory. Sell an item...subtract from your inventory. This is Business 101, first day of class.
Granted, no inventory system is perfect. There is always some level of breakage, data entry mistakes, or even theft in the warehouse that can cause inventory errors. However, starting a business with NOTHING in place is crazy.
Anyone telling you that adding an inventory check is an expensive and time-consuming process is either lying, incompetent, or being lied to by their technical staff.
In any of these three cases, I don't know why anyone should be comfortable letting someone like this having access to their credit card number. What should make anyone think that they will do a better job of managing your credit card information than they do of managing their inventory (which is their largest asset).
Bill, I think you're making an assumption that these stores have a lot of resources (either captial or personnel) to re-engineer processes or implement better back-end solutions. My experience has been that except for the very largest adult retailers, the average store profile looks something like this:
* A couple of owner-employees. * Someone who does both purchasing and marketing. * One or two people who do both shipping and returns in the warehouse. * A couple of customer service/sales reps. * One "computer guy" who handles the servers and probably is the web developer too.
And in terms of infrastructure:
* A handful (maybe even as few as two) of web servers, located in the company's office suite, running Microsoft IIS. * A single SQL server, maybe even MS Access. * One router, one switch or hub, one ISP, one telco circuit (probably just a T-1), no power backup, and no disaster recovery plan.
My point is that it may be assuming a lot to assume that some stores have a more sophisticated inventory management system than paper and a pen. Okay, that's an exaggeration, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that many stores aren't anywhere close to the sophistication and resources of a serious, mainstream e-business.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Jun 3 2001 : 6:51PM
Bill - I know exactly what is involved - nobody is telling me anything. Moreover, I know exactly what is involved in the specific case of DVD Advantage.
Many adult DVD stores do not have in-house programmers. Many began with a boxed commerce solution. As an IS Manager you probably know how difficult it is for an outside programmer to modify someone else's boxed commerce solution. Implementing a new inventory system also requires a full physical inventory - which isn't easy to do while trying to ship a ton of orders and receive new product (when some studios make mistakes in every shipment.)
I'm trying not to respond to your condescending tone...
Maybe it's me, but I think this thread is getting blown way out of control. I understand that sometimes people don't receive a complete order, but things like that happen. DVD Advantage reconizes these concerns and are looking at fixing them. I actually have a suggestion to Bill, if you care so much to argue how easy and inexpensive it is to incorporate a inventory tracking system. Then, why don't you donate your time and expertice at no charge to DVD Advantage and fix the situation. Argueing over this is going to lead nowhere.
Steph - The "let me explain what I do for a living" part of my post was in no way intended to be disparaging toward you (or anyone else for that matter). If it was taken that way, I apopogize. I only intended to set a foundation to show that I DO know what something like this takes.
As far as dealing with vendors and packaged commerce software is concerned, I have had multiple vendors tell me multiple reasons why they would be unable to prevent people from purchasing out of stock items off of web sites that we are supporting. In EVERY case, when I proposed the same solution that I did in my previous post, they agreed that they could support that functionality.
I know for a fact the DVD Advantage has the ability to put an item on their site, while not allowing it to be purchased. I have had this happen to my when attempting to purchase a couple of Elegant Angel titles that they had not yet received, but had already been added to the site (and became available within two days). Basically they don't have an "Add To Cart" button for these titles.
This says that there is at least some type of indicator on their Part Master file that will prevent orders from taking place for a given item.
The inventory quantity field doesn't have to be added to the Part Master from the package software, it can be easily created in a separate file that would have the same key as the Part Master. This separate file can be updated by an external program that would be kicked at an exit point within the existing software (preferably at the time that an item is added to a shopping cart, but this is more complicated because the reverse would need to take place if a shopping cart were abandoned). Virtually all of the packaged software has exit points. Even if the one that DVD Advantage has doesn't have any exit points, the update program could be kicked off by the confirmation of order e-mail that DVD Advantage currently sends (the e-mails already contain the SKU (item number) of each item on the order.
This called program would subtract the appropriate quantity from inventory. Once zero is reached, the flag that already exists on the package Part Master would then be set to whatever value is currently used to prevent the next customer from ordering the item.
The process that I described above achieves the desired intention of preventing someone from ordering an item that is unavailable without touching the code from the original package.
The problem with most vendors (and consultants) is that they look at doing "All or Nothing". They want to implement totally integrated "real-time" inventory, and know immediately when an item has been received, or else they don't want to do anything. This is totally unrealistic in a business environment. Most companies don't need this level of sophistication.
I realize that the simple solution has flaws that real-time inventory wouldn't have. But commerce sites have to "learn to walk before they fly". If you have absolutely no inventory control within your system, get something simple in quickly before spending months of time and too much money putting in something state of the art.
Once again, if you took any offense to my prior post, I apologize, there was no offense intended.
I just wanted to publicize the fact that I recently had a very good experience with DVD advantage. Granted, it started with a mistake, but it showed that they care about quality, personalized customer service.
I ordered @ $100 worth of DVDs from them, while they were running their 'free bonus DVDs' promo (which I believe is still going on). My order entitled me to two free DVDs, and they only sent me one, and it was not one I had selected.
Once alerted to the problem, Mike rushed me the two original bonus DVDs and gave me the 'accidental' bonus DVD for the trouble. His emails were prompt and apologetic.
My point: Everyone makes mistakes. It's how you make up for them that counts.
