Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Apr 9 2016 : 7:56PM
Maybe you guys and girls here at ADT can chime in and give your opinion on the etiquette of contacting retired industry members about porn? One of the most rewarding aspects of collecting for me is networking with industry members and obtaining rare content not available to the general public. Occasionally, the search for older content, such as from sites that have closed, puts me in contact with people who have left the business. I feel the situation out and try not to be intrusive. In many cases, I have been able to purchase rare content for a price that is very agreeable to both parties. In a handful of cases, I've held off on contacting content owners, because they have left the industry so far behind. These people include a florist, a singer for a punk band, and pot brownie shop owner. They've each got $1000 or more waiting for them if they could help me, which they could do by simply taking a few minutes to upload files, but I have still held off. I held off because I got their contact info through accident, not through connections. For the florist, an asshole ex-member leaked her real identity, which probably was what led her to close her site. For the punk band singer, a fellow porn fan aptly pointed out to me in a forum that the singer was once a well known porn model, matching tattoos and everything. For the pot brownie shop owner, she was a big enough name in porn, it's common knowledge what she is doing now. Anyway, I expect the consensus will probably be that I am doing the right thing by holding off. But then again, if I offer real money, and do so politely and discretely, am I really that unwelcome?
I'm not sure what the others will write but here is my take. 1- If the performer is retired from appearing in porn but is still working in and around the industry and has the social media that demonstrates her interest in having an exchange between herself and her fans than I see nothing wrong in going that route. 2- If the performer is retired and is no longer associated in any way with the porn industry and her social media imprint in no way shows her having an interest in discussing said porn past than the decent thing is to leave her alone. Nothing good will come from getting in touch with her and bad stuff can happen to her.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Apr 9 2016 : 8:51PM
I think what you are doing is absolutely inappropriate. Searching the internet for real names of retired porn women ,and then trying to seek them out in the civilian world, finding a way to contact them....... just something I find repugnant. The fact you searched for someone enough to find out she was a florist and where her shop was and such.... just way over the line. Sorry to be blunt, your motivations seem gentle enough. I just don't like it. People retire for a reason ; they want to move on to a new life. Sure maybe you contact some and they are happy to take the money; however, the process of looking and finding a performer in their civilian life puts me off. Unless they have stayed connected to the industry in some way; I think it is unacceptable.
Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Apr 9 2016 : 9:10PM
Your point is taken, but I think you've got me wrong. I did not seek anyone out. I stumbled across photos that someone had posted that had her IRL info watermarked on them. She is probably the best example of someone not to contact. Remember, this post is about what I am NOT doing. These are people I have decided to leave alone. I am not one of those assholes who tries to uncover and post IRL identities of porn models. Neither am I searching the internet for real names of retired porn women. Let me give you an example of situations that did work out. I find an email posted long ago on a webmaster forum by a guy trying to sell his domain. I ask about the content from the members area, and we make a deal. He was long since retired. Anyway, I guess your strong reaction settles any doubt in my mind.
Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Apr 9 2016 : 9:26PM
You yourself acknowledged that you are being blunt, but maybe you should not make assumptions before you berate people? I know all detailed info not because I'm some sort of creep stalking a performer, but because I'm just more interested in porn and it's history than most.
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groland Deactivated User
46 Posts 4/16
Posted - Apr 9 2016 : 10:45PM
What exactly is a pot brownie? Is it similar to a space cake? Oh well just asking...
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Apr 10 2016 : 10:42PM
You wanted opinions, you got mine. You don't have to agree with it. I think finding out a girls real name then seeking her out on facebook or some other social media to email her or contact her at work is wrong. That is my opinion; I don't think being an "historian" makes it any better. I don't particularly buy the history angle when you just want to get the unsold content from Performer A's old website; you just want to see some scenes that have not been marketed before. This isn't a museum you are building here, so unless you are making a "history of porn" archive and documentary, then you are just doing this for your own personal pleasures and I don't agree with contacting people in their real lives if they are no longer connected to the industry. I wish you all the best in whatever you do. There is more than one view on this issue; mine is more militant.
Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 4/10/2016 10:44:15 PM
Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 10:31PM
I appreciate your bluntness. I think "historian" is a stretch too, it implies an academic affiliation, I'm just a guy that knows a lot about porn and it's history and cares about it. I agree with you in what you say - "Finding out a girls real name then seeking her out on facebook or some other social media to email her or contact her at work is wrong." It could have consequences for them, and that is why I have not done it in such situations. So, why do I even post about it? I guess I don't know what else to do. Lets face it, porn has had a rough ten years. Half of the sites that were around in 2006 are gone today. Could you imagine if this happened to another industry, for example, the motion picture industry? Imagine if you wanted to watch a classic, for the sake of example, let's say the "Wizard of Oz." You went to the store or online to find it, but you found that it had been pulled from the market because the owner MGM closed, and rather than sell the content and rights to another studio, they destroyed their copies plus their entire portfolio of film so that they could use the loss as a tax write off. It might seem like a far fetched example in the film world, but it has happened before in film, and it is happening now in porn. It happened in mainstream film on a widespread scale in the silent era. Some estimates claim that 75% of commercial silent films have been lost. See this wikipedia article here for an overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_film#Preservation_and_lost_films. It seems that many studios did not think twice about discarding them when technological change rendered them obsolete, but now they are sought after historical gems. The same thing is happening in porn today. There are places like Vintage Erotica Forum where people discuss and post their finds from the era of magazines, film, and VHS. If you talk with other people who are into vintage porn, you realize that there is this shared disbelief at how people let so many great things slip away. What so few realize though, is that nothing has changed with digital content, it is actually being lost faster than the older physical media. I can't tell you how many times I talked with content owners only to hear back that the content was too old, they deleted it, it was lost due to a hard drive crash, a software glitch, a web hosting company terminating their account without warning, forgetting to renew a domain, they sold it to another company with a content policy that forbids them from releasing it, and the list goes on and on. One famous fetish photographer who sold me some prints, whose work was published in TASCHEN books and shown in art galleries, agreed to dig up his backup CD from when he ran a membership site that closed in the early 2000's. We shared a moment of heartbreak when he emailed me a photo of the CD, with "Backup" penned on the cover, followed by a screen shot of what was inside. It was empty - he had apparently never checked that the backup was successful before he stored it away. At times like that, I wonder why I made this one of my battles in life. Porn is so much simpler when you just get off for 20 minutes and then go on with your life. But then again, even though I fail often, it is the successes that make it all worth it. I don't want to boast here, I really don't, so I will just say that it has definitely been worth it so far. So, if you are still with me, maybe you can now see why the idea of contacting those people had crossed my mind, even if I hadn't or wasn't going to do it. I guess posting about it is a way of venting frustration. Realizing that I may have to let any chance of it surviving go, out of respect for the people who created it. People who keep no industry contacts are best left alone. Edited by - LPee23 on 4/11/2016 10:33:07 PM
Dude is a perv demonstrating "magical thinking" that he can achieve relationship with persons he has no legitimate contract with; demonstrates delusion of grandeur, characterizing his "collecting" as something more noble than laying on the couch and whacking off. Grow up. Get a girlfriend. They are out there, even for pervs like you.
^ Is a business transaction really "a relationship"? I suppose it fits the most strict definition, but my understanding was the guy just wants to buy old material, not be their pen-pals.
Just chiming in. If a retired porn star doesn't make it explicit that contacts are welcome, then contacts are not welcome. I would think that social media entries are explicit, but google image search, or any other method where it cannot be inferred that she wants fans to be able to contact her, are not. Come on, it should be extremely easy to tell the difference for someone who is not fantasizing and is rational about it.
Better to be pissed on, than to be pissed off. 248 Posts 1/15
Posted - Apr 19 2016 : 10:41PM
Thanks bro.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Apr 19 2016 : 11:05PM
I like how you had to put yourself over by telling us your wife used to be a model. Just because a beautiful woman married you; doesn't make it less offensive to look up real names of retired girls and contact them on facebook or at their place of employment asking if they have any scenes they never released that you are willing to buy. Just because some you found happened to say "sure"; doesn't make it right. I can't imagine you would even think of the consequences if you emailed someone at their work and an IT guy saw it on the email server; or contacted them on facebook where it happens they allow their significant other to log in as well. Hey, I got my favorite retired porn stars too. Would I love to find one and get some unreleased scene she made for her website so I can say "Yay! I saw something nobody else saw"... sure, that would be fun. However, I wouldn't contact them in the civilian world about it and certainly wouldn't present it under some bullshit "I love porn history and want to preserve it". Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 4/19/2016 11:06:43 PM
It's dumb the OP starts a thread about this, but... ...if people choose to cover their tracks and other people uncover those tracks, that's just the way it goes. Ex-pornstars are no different than anyone else who tries to make a break with their past - it might not work. Better to embrace your past experiences than try to pretend they never happened. If someone feels ashamed about what they did, hiding from it is no cure. Personally I have no interest in what the OP is going on about - either he makes contact and is told to fuck off (or not), or he doesn't attempt to make contact. Of course, if he is told to fuck off, he should do so. Starting a thread in a porn forum is just dumb and pointless. But so long as he doesn't do anything illegal, then frankly, it's his call. People are entitled to seek information, ask questions, find out about other people. The only real boundaries and limitations in respect of such a search are legal; outside of that it's a matter of personal ethics, the extent to which you respect another person's privacy, and the degree to which you feel concern regarding the hurt feelings of the person who may believe their privacy has been violated. All of which should be at the front of a searcher's mind. But, let's be clear: the only real right to privacy is that which can be successfully prosecuted (or injuncted against) through the courts - everything else is open slather. The moral outrage exhibited in this thread is sanctimonious and laughable.
I guess I will chime in. I am affiliated with academia, and I make contact with many retired producers, actors, editors, writers, publicists, etc etc. Some of them are open about their porn past. Others are really hard to track down and require a hand-written letter. I think rhetoric is very important when reaching out to someone--you must be discrete, open about motives, clear that you are not interested in outing or anything else. Explain what it is you seek from them. Having said that, there are cases where I have refrained from making contact based on what I see on their social media or simply by a sense I get. I see that they have zero friends from the industry on fb, for example. You have to be sensitive to what vibe a person is giving off. I have a friend who made contact several times with a performer (their favourite) who made it 100% clear they didn't want to be contacted, and I found that to be a gross invasion of privacy. I don't care how much you value that person's contributions--they have moved on, and the mere experience of receiving a note that essentially says "I know who you are and where you work!" no matter how fluffed up or praising that note is, could be incredibly traumatic for the performer. At the same time, I and others in my position are seeking interviews and other information. It seems the OP is seeking product. Why would you contact the performer instead of the studio, the producer, or a fan forum? This makes me think you perhaps simply want to to collect interactions. If that's the case, don't.
^ Well, sometimes performers are in a position to still have older material. It may have been commissioned personally for their site, or they may have been a director as well. For example, I've wondered if Michael Stefano still has photo sets from the old Red Light District days since a lot of that stuff is no longer on their site and directors essentially owned their own lines. He's retired now, so if I wanted to find out I would have to track him down. My desire for that material isn't strong enough for me to make the effort, so I won't. But that's an example of a performer who might still have access to hard to find or even unreleased material.
I guess where I am calling bullshit is there is no way this is some academic "porn history and preservation" project. It's just a guy who wants to see unreleased scenes because it is a rush to see stuff nobody else has seen. he is trying to frame this as some social justice mission and comparing it to preserving lost classics from the silent film era! I object to contacting retired people by searching out real names and contacting them. Maybe retired porn performers think I am over reacting; this is just how I feel. I just remember what Taylor Rain has gone through with her Real Estate career once her real name got out there and I am sure she is not the only example. If this was an actual project or legitimate mission; he would be offering up a website with his archives to celebrate the scenes he has saved from the bowels of destruction. I wonder if there is a Tori Welles (my first porn crush long long ago) double anal scene hidden in there some where. I might bring in my hypocrisy and pay for that one myself. I have said my points on the matter; he will certainly do what he wants I am sure. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 4/20/2016 3:10:38 PM
Because hosting a public website with gigabytes of data is such a trivial endeavour... Besides, how would you know what his eventual goal is with all that work? As usual, you're quite happy to jump to conclusions about other people based on nothing more than your own imagined motives they allegedly have. Edited by - shalalin on 4/20/2016 4:05:27 PM
Because hosting a public website with gigabytes of data is such a trivial endeavour... Besides, how would you know what his eventual goal is with all that work? As usual, you're quite happy to jump to conclusions about other people based on nothing more than your own imagined motives they allegedly have.