Euro girls can actually cum.

DenverDon

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Edited to pint out that I forgot to mention Please! 9, which has a good scene of Nacho with Claudia and another girl (Sheri, from RRP2 and other movies), and a great scene of Nacho with Amanda Angel and Jessica Fiorentino, where Amanda allows herself to be dominated by the other two. The movie isn't on DVD yet, but the award winning Amanda, Jessica and Nacho scene is on the DVD of All Star Best of Please!.

Edited by - speelie on 6/29/2004 7:36:05 PM

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lordish

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IMO, this dicussion has been beaten to death already, if not on ADT (where it has been discussed several times already), than certainly on RAME. So excuse me if I have formed a rather lengthy and stubborn opinion on this.

I have broken my post in two parts, which coincidentally are congruent with your header: ”Euro Girls and Orgasms". I will first discuss orgasms (in porn) and in the second part, I will discuss Euro Girls (or better yet, Euro Girls in (different kinds of ) porn). Both parts are more or less verbatim lifted from old e-mail discussions I have had with Speelie. Maybe he will remember them.
If you don't like to read too much, you can just skip all the mumbo-jumbo and go straight to the conclusions at the end of both parts.

Part I: Orgasms in porn
I believe this is a very difficult discussion.
There is the Patrick Riley (a RAME regular of yesteryore) approach, which is utter bull if you ask me. Riley once made the following comparison: he believes an orgasm can not to be acted because it is an involuntary reaction, just like when you hit yourself on the hand with a hammer and you have to scream out of pain. Of course, his point is completely irrelevant. Just because an orgasm is supposed to be a involuntary reaction doesn't mean that that reaction can not to be faked or acted in a convincing way. If anyone is naive in matters regarding 'porn orgasms', it is Riley: he seems to say that every believable orgasm he sees in a video, must be the real deal.
I take a complete other approach: that of believability or vraisemblance/verisimilitude. If an orgasm looks 'real' - whatever that may be and that may change from situation to situation and from person to person (look further) - I am not really interested anymore in the question if the orgasm was 'real'. Why? Because either way, the performance has the same effect on me: 'blissful rupture'.
The tricky part is of course that believability is not a natural thing, but can and will differ from person to person, being as it is related to personal experiences and knowledge, both of things porn and of the 'real' world. Therefor the difference between 'experienced' viewers and 'average' viewers or 'rookie' viewers, is a very important factor when deciphering clues that will address questions of vraisemblance. I believe that the more experienced viewers look for something different than the casual viewer or the 'unsophisticated' viewer.
Read back my piece on 'blissful rupture' and the piece on the systematic porn pragmatics and some of the answers I formulated to the reactions of different ADT members. 'Sophisticated' viewers, by and large, are looking for meaningful details in performance. The problem with these details is that they are extremely elusive in nature. That is why I believe that they can not be 'directed' or 'orchestrated' and that is also why I think that they are very hard to 'act out'.
So, what I am saying, is that minute details of performance related to the concept of vraisemblance are key to understand what is going on with 'porn orgasms'. This relationship between vraisemblance and performance has been addressed somewhat differently by different performers. There seem to be 2 schools. By lack of a better description, I will call them the American school and the European school, keeping in mind that both these styles are being practiced in both Euro porn and American porn.
The American school pretty much believes that bigger is better. It is best illustrated by the theatrical and demonstrative performance styles of Chloe Nicholle, Debi Diamond or Mila. The European school is based on the idea of 'underscoring' and 'naturalistic' acting. While the American school looks more fake than the European school, I really can point to minute details in both performance styles which may lead to a high degree of vraisemblance. Sure, a lot of time the American style is nothing more than clearly fake moans (cf. DB's complaint of caterwauling), but there are over the top performances that do contain details which lead me to believe that something believably genuine has crept into the performance. The funny thing is, that a lot of these details are basically the same in the different performance styles: a twisting of muscles in the thighs, becoming flushed in the neck, actions that seem to indicate that the performer is forgetting that a camera is present, ...
All in all, I do prefer the restricted European style. The reason is somewhat personal and has something to do with 'blissful rupture'. I have stated that 'blissful rupture' is primarily a question of details. So instances of 'blissful rupture' are usually not very spectacular. In the over the top American school, these 'unspectacular' instances run a greater risk of being overlooked and being judged as anti-climactic, than in the European school: even the most 'unspectacular' moment of 'blissful rupture' can be a true climax in the seemingly uneventful European style.

Conclusion : Instead of talking about orgasms in porn, it is much more fruitful to discuss if performers seemed to have enjoyed themselves.

Part II: Are Euro Girls Cold and Do They Lack Personality?

Well, consider this:
I saw Private Reality 14 , which was a nice surpirse and one of the better recent (OK, this was written some time ago already) Private titles I have seen, which isn't saying much. Apart from the first scene, all the scenes were really pleasant to look at. Beautiful girls, decent camerawork, not too many annoying edtiting tricks and some very selective moments of enjoyment which weren't lost thanks to the use of direct sound. But the two 'behind the scenes' segments were the real eye-openers.
The first one was about the Venus Erotica festival in Berlin of 2002. Here is what I wrote about this segment in a private e-mail to Toni Ribas:

Conclusion : If you want to see Euro girls enjoying themselves, you have to pick your movies carefully. The same goes for American girls, btw.




Lee O said:
"I wish camcorders were more expensive ."

Edited by - Walter Burns on 6/30/2004 12:04:50 PM

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I've read (fairly carefully), Walter's response, but I'm not sure I understand. I think Walter is saying that to make an orgasm seem believable (whether it is real or not), there have to be things other than just vocalizations that make you think it's really an orgasm, and touch your internal triggers that tell your brain (and more importantly your libido) that the person doing this is having the sexual time of their lives.

That makes sense to me. I've seen quite a few orgasms in porn that I thought were real and turned me on like hell (which is the important point for me). But in the Adamo movies I've seen, the girls don't seem to orgasm, or even fake orgasm. There is just a constant drone of low to medium loud vocalizations. The familiar "Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh....", ad infinitum.

When done properly this can be somewhat exciting, but it's not orgasm.

Whether or not the orgasms are truly real, I'd still like to see the "euro version" of this. If Walter or anyone else has any specific suggestions for orgasms that excited them and seemed real enough, I'd be delighted to check them out.

As for euros and personality, that's a whole other discussion and a pretty interesting take on it. I'll table that for now as I'm kind of focused on the primary topic at the moment.

Thanks again for the commentary.

Dr. P

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1. The last scene of PXP's Ultimate Asses 2, with Sandra Romain and Manuel Ferrara. Sandra must have at least 7 orgasms, all easy to see (her body tenses up, she gets quiet, she throws her head back).

2. The first scene of RLD's Sport Fucking 1, with Tera Joy, Erik Everhard and Steve Holmes. I lost count how many orgasms Tera has. With this vixen, it's not only her entire body that tenses up, but you see her face and neck flushed red (no one can fake that).

3. The last scene of Digital Sin's Anal Perversions, with the Czech actress Janet, and Dillon Day. Janet is on the quiet side, but she certainly looks like she's feeling a lot of pleasure.

4. The Polish actresses Katya, Agnes and Elizabeth in "Rocco Invades Poland". All very natural, enthusiastic performers.

I can't think of one single American actress who can top these performances, not in terms of naturalness and authenticity, though Cris Taliana comes close. One of the reasons I enjoy watching Euro-porn is that it is blessedly free of actresses caterwauling to high heaven, squirting all over the place, and it's free of actresses constantly calling themselves 'filthy, fucking whores', like that is the height of sensuality (in reality, it's American directors who by and large make them say such stupid things).

Yes, some European actresses give what I call passive performances, where they basically do whatever they're supposed to do, without much interest. But there are others who like performing on film: their scenes are either the first or last in a movie, usually.

I haven't noticed much difference in actress enthusiasm or orgasms, with regard to whether the male performers are black or white. I have noticed that some American male actors (white or black) screw things up when they are over filming in Europe, by swearing at the women incessantly, or spouting out insults, or asking the women about their private lives, things you rarely see European men do.

The one Antonio Adamo film I've watched, Cleopatra, was incredibly boring. It's clear he over-directs the women, and you can practically tell when he's just told one to mug for the camera. However, I've read reviews of the movie, where people absolutely loved it, because they like seeing beautiful women dressed up like Egyptians, and men like Romans, all having sex. Boring, overly-directed sex, but sex all the same.

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I just read your reviews of Ultimate Asses 2, Anal Perversions, and Rocco Invades Poland. The box cover to Sport Fucking didn't appeal to me much as it seemed to have a lot of group sex which isn't a favorite of mine.

Your reviews of these three movies were more than enough to convince me to order them. Your descriptions are very observant about sexuality and pretty hot to read. I'm looking forward to watching all three of these.

Strangely, the chemistry in Rocco Invades Poland seemed to be the strongest according to your description. Then again, maybe it's not so strange. Girls might just like a good looking Italian man who's ripped, has a huge dick, and can fuck like an animal. Imagine that. Who would have guessed?!? :-)

Thanks for the recommendations. If anyone has more, I'm anxious to hear them.

Thanks,

Dr. P

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Perhaps it was that these three Polish women weren't jaded porn actresses, doing their umpteenth scene of the year.

Another good scene with Rocco and two of these Polish women is the last one in his Animal Trainer 13, which also has a good 30 minutes of bonus footage as well.

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There are lot of Euro girl-orgasms out there, but you need to check the right directors and pairings. The hot orgasmic scene I watched was Jessica Fiorentino in Out Numbered 2. - It is so much fun to watch a girl getting off!

Besides: Very interesting post of Walter Burns. Of course vraisemblance is the key in a porn film not reality, still it is heartwarming to see Sandra Romain cum and be sure that she really does feel like she vrai-sembles.

Edited by - Mienhagen on 7/2/2004 5:16:11 PM

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