All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 690 > Everybody's a director now
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skronker
Notable Legendary Icon


Scopophiliac
9780 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jul 9 2004 : 11:54PM
Is it me or does it seem that every day some previous talent-only individual has inked a deal with a company to direct their own line of smut?

Is this the new trend? I'm guessing that with the explosion of girls (and to some degree guys) wanting to be porn stars, that just being a porn star is no longer enough. Now it's the Porn Valley version of the old, "But what I really want to do is direct."

Which is fine by me, though I'm always gonna consider the Joey Silveras of the biz to be auteurs , if you will, while siding with Chico Wang along the lines of "any monkey with a DVX-2000" can be a gonzo director. Obviously, some will be great -- and there is the solid argument that the "veteran star" of the scene is the "true" director in most gonzo, driving the girl (or, sometimes, guys) and making shit happen.

What I'm getting to is just how many individual lines and contracted actor-director talent can any studio support? Is there no fear of glut?

It seems like RLD really kicked off this trend (as we now know it), with the Diabolic Diaspora dispatching all the Everhards and Vinces to a new company, which rapidly became the Thing That Ate Cleveland -- proving that the shotgun approach to mass porn production could be a successful business model. Gradually, everyone else has followed suit -- at least in the Gonzo World.

More the merrier. I'm just curious if a) the consumer industry can really support this; and b) are companies worried about losing the forest for the trees?

All purely rhetorical. I'm not assessing how good anyone's work is -- a bunch of these folks maybe have yet to produce a movie. (I haven't seen Ashley Blue's debut, or Ariana's, for that matter, though the idea of actresses making their own titles is kind of exciting -- if they are really calling the shots. Ashley took a few shots at some folks in a news release from JM, which implied that some "names" really don't direct their stuff).

I'm interested in hearing any and all thoughts. This seems like THE new thing in porn (gonzo anyway), I guess besides -- gee -- double anal or something.

*Mutt*
Deactivated User

752 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:07AM

gonzo has become McPorn. anybody can do it, the VX 2000, a house or hotel room, Jim South's number, you're a producer and director. Most are horrible, some are ok, and a small number of people will make something pretty good out of the same talent, the same camera and locations.

Sanders
Member

424 Posts
9/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:42AM
It's getting kind of corny with every big name performer feeling to that they have to direct. The best directors are always gonna be the ones that's purpose was to direct. The greatest coaches in professional sports made a name for themselves as coaches not as players and thats the same way it is in porn. I understand that everyone wants to evolve and become more well rounded but I believe if a performer still has a demand to deliver quality performances then that is what they should focus on. When Ashley Blue retires she could be remembered as the Greatest Female Performer of all time but I doubt that would happen if she chooses to put more time into directing.
Coyote
Member

Daylight Savings Time, is it really Necessary?
972 Posts
3/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 1:06AM
I think it's a good thing. More possibilities to have new ideas and perhaps different projections on the screen. It's like anything I think, best to start doing the work then stepping forward to take control of it. Though it always doesn't work it's a good idea.
Van Styles
Member

Starr Power
306 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 3:26AM
i have been directing for almost 2 years and i am sure i am still considered a newbie....but in my opinion just cause you have a vx 2000 and you film people fucking doesnt make you a director. if someone swings a baseball bat it doest quite make them a major league ball player. it takes alot of time and effort. you got to wanna learn all the things to directing. and believe me there is alot of things. i still try and learn everytime i shoot cause i think if you are having fun it should be a constant evolution. but i guess in the end what i am trying to say is you dont become a director over night.
 
EagleSpirit
Member

Somewhere Doing Something Stupid
439 Posts
7/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 3:47AM
Well I am about to go shooting in the dark on a subject I only speculate on. Here is my "Theory," that actors and actresses don't make much money for the amount of work they do and the directors get all of the cash. So if one is a director they will make more money.
Yes I think that it is a growing trend and I also think it will not last forever as the Adult Business is BOOOMING aside from what people think from HIV scares and Ashcroft.

Gonzo is the most heavily saturated market right now, people just want to see sex. After all why else would you rent a fuck flick? Gonzo has taken up a "need" in the marketplace that comps used to fill.

Some Gonzo is tasteful and artistic where other Gonzo films are just a comp with fresh faces and hype.

I used to sell porn films for a living and have noticed certain trends. Some of what I say is "theory" while some is fact.

Distribution is a key element, a new company needs to diversify it's product line and not only are more companies popping up but they need director's and lot's of them to compete.

Male talent is the key, if a company can lock in a good performer to an exclusive contract they are one step ahead of the rest. If that means making that person a director then so be it.

Now this is just all mostly theory, so please don't bash me too hard!!!

XXXXXXXX
Member

306 Posts
11/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 4:13AM
exactly. the differences in case of a female director should be clearly visible,
however, if the majority of viewers likes that , i have no clue
but variety sounds like a good thing to me.
i think that really depends on your contract, sometimes you may just be credited as director
for marketing reasons, other times you will have to fight for your contract to participate
in the final sales.
but i do think talent will have even more motivation when it's involved in the merits.
though sometimes it maybe more clever to take the quick money and go before everything breaks down.
i second that, though i would like to strip the 'male' part.
talent is the key,
if you have the right performers not much can go wrong. (in case you dont forget to switch on the lights)
the rest is craftsmanship.
skronker
Notable Legendary Icon

Scopophiliac
9780 Posts
9/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 4:14AM
You sound sensible.

My thought is that by directing, it's the surest way for a star to "own their product," rather than be working their scene rate only. Some people have a "vision," while others are cranking it out. I guess my concept of porn, while not exactly counter to all of this, carries over from mainstream cinema, where you have real Class A filmmakers -- and I guess I tend to have a different, perhaps higher regard for directors of porn who are not always also talent. Or rather, they are talent emeritus (or semi-emeritus, like Silvera). On the other hand, Rocco has made some of the hottest porn ever -- and it's all driven by his persona, on and off camera. Mike John, master of POV, is sorta talent -- but I really think of him more as a director who gets a blowjob now and again. Jules Jordan may be the highest-end young director in porn, and appears in his scenes, but you never see him anywhere else, so that's different.


It's late. I may not be making any sense. Forgive any babbling. This just struck me as an interesting topic.

EagleSpirit
Member

Somewhere Doing Something Stupid
439 Posts
7/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 4:51AM

Edited by - eaglespirit on 7/10/2004 9:47:32 AM

vodka tonic
coolest cucumber

who
1243 Posts
11/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:03AM
The shots were directed at Bridgette Kerkove & Britney Foster. I also read this somewhere, possibly at adultfyi or lukeford. But everybody takes a shot at Bridgette, it's porn's very own national sport.
Ramsey
Senior Member

Trina Michaels fan
10332 Posts
10/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:11AM
You know you have a problem when an overrated pornstar like Ashley Blue makes stupid remarks towards a goddess like Bridgette Kerkove.

As for all these new directors; how many are really a real director? When I think a real director I think people like John Stagliano and John Leslie for example. They are the real directors in my opinion. Almost all others just shoot sex, in my opinion there's a difference.

Chico Wang
Member

775 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:16AM
Skronker, it's true. Any "monkey" with a 3 chip camera can shoot gonzo. I'm living proof.

The real reason is that shooting porno is one of the easiest professions you can do once you master the basics. As I've always said, this shit is not rocket science.

For those of you who don't shoot porn and think it's difficult, think about these basic steps and see if you can do it ...

I tell newbies three cardinal rules right off the bat.

(1) Do not hit the focus ring after manually focusing the lens.
(2) Make sure you are recording when you're shooting.
(3) Stay steady.

Pretty simple huh? You'd be surprised how many people fuck up these simple task.

After that, it becomes a series of framing shots, moving from position to position, composing your look, and getting a strokeable sequence.

Some shooters shoot to edit. As an editor myself, I shoot not to edit.

The stuff is simple as hell and I'm just amazed how many people simply cannot handle these basic facets of shooting. After much practice, it all becomes second nature and you can start being more creative with the camera without disturbing the action at hand.

The real problem for most directors is the intangibles: organization, respect from talent, vision, booking, authority, chemistry, etc.

This business has a plethora of morons and a few shining examples of 'artists'. I just with more qualified and creative new blood flooded the marketplace to show these directors what directing really means.

Basically, if an idiot like myself can direct, anyone with half a brain can learn to do it too. Anybody with a whole brain can make a killing.

Chico

picman
Senior Member

Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass.
2884 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 7:50AM
What else can a performer, especially a male one, do? You get into porn and get paid to fuck beautiful women for a good living. You spend your 20's in this idyllic state and one day you wake up and you're pushing 40. You don't look that great, the 19 yr. olds that you fuck call you daddy and your johnson isn't as reliable as it used to be. The consumers are tired of seeing your now grizzled mug and it's time to move on. To what? What are you trained to do? You've been involved in enough shoots to understand the basics of making porn. The cameras are almost idiot proof. You know every producer in the valley and how to book talent. Being a director is a no brainer. Being a good director is another story. Talent that's smart enough to look ahead early in their career get started early and use their performance availability as leverage to get a good deal. Women who perform get spat out of the industry much faster and need to make these decisions quicker if they want to continue in porn. I think a lot of us would like to see a woman's true vision in gonzo. The women having success right now just seem to be trying to outdo the men at their own game. I would expect a woman director to produce something more erotic and verbal. Think of Candida Royalle, but with more satisfying and graphic sex.
TonyC
Comstock Films

2523 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 8:29AM
Genius!

-T.C.

Edited by - TonyC on 7/10/2004 3:28:57 PM

bridgette
Bridgette Kerkove

228 Posts
7/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:01PM
Since I've been rather kind to Ashley Blue, in addition to giving her work, by hiring her for my movies, before she went with JM. To give her extra money, I hired her as my production assistant; to get food for the set and make copies of the talents paperwork.Which is an easy job most people can do-and she volunteered herself-I thought "why not" she seems nice. Not only did she hand me a reciet(that I unfortunately, looked at later) for food she never brought to the set!(she obviously kept it for herself)And another receipt for 90$ of CAT SUPPLIES. Which I had to then pay for, out of my pocket because I couldn't hand in a pet store recipt to Metro-I don't think they would appreciate it. I didn't. Nor did I hire her again.

I never claimed to be Paul Thomas. I solely Produce and Direct my movies. If someone can't handle that, thats o.k. its an issue they have. Anyone can watch me on the BTS, plenty of press has seen me in action, as well as my crew. God knows I run my sets with complete efficiency-my crew tells me about OTHER PEOPLES SETS-and they thank me for how smooth I run the sets.


Bridgette Kerkove

 
Zoid
Senior Member

Boobies and Anal
2004 Posts
5/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:13PM
That could have provoked interesting response though.
cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:16PM
I thought everybody was a comedian?
bridgette
Bridgette Kerkove

228 Posts
7/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:27PM
Exactly Zoid! She actually thought nobody would notice! Then had the nerve to complain about her check coming late in the mail-after she put the wrong address!! LOL I still laugh about it-as do the rest of the crew whom witnessed it.

Bridgette Kerkove

cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 12:29PM
It's the speed.
Chico Wang
Member

775 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 2:12PM
I may be speaking from a different point of view but in my mind, in general, the best directors are not male performers. The best directors are editors or people who have spent a considerable time in the edit bay. Let me tell you a fact about some directors in the business ...

Joey Silvera edits his own movies as do John Stagliano, Mason, Jules Jordan. I don't know how they do it. I edited one movie, Un-Natural Sex #12 and thought it was a pain in the ass and it was just one movie. Other directors sit directly in the edit bay and focus on each cut like Zupko, Everhard, Mike John, Darkko, etc.

I believe I had this argument with the affable John Strong at one point. He commented that only male performers can direct because they're intrinsically the best at it. I told him I thought that theory was a bucket of bullshit among a myriad of his many ever-changing, self-serving theories. The best directors in the business are perverts with an videographer's eye for what they want. Often times, male talent prove to be the worst directors in the business.

Nobody taught me how to shoot camera except one person, Cal444. Sitting with that beer pig in the edit bay for over 3 months taught me more about shooting porno than years at UCLA Film School.

Chico

Edited by - Chico Wang on 7/10/2004 2:15:21 PM
cobalt60
Knuckle Dragger

2046 Posts
2/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 2:29PM
Tell that beer pig to post occasionally, wouldja? I miss him.
picman
Senior Member

Nothing says I love you so much as a tongue in the ass.
2884 Posts
1/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 2:29PM
I wasn't trying to say that performers make good directors. I just think that they have more access to get started, for better or worse. I'm not sure that you can generalize about who might make the best directors. Keep in mind that Joey Silvera was a performer in just about every porn film made for more than a decade. John Leslie also had a celebrated run as a performer.
Chico Wang
Member

775 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 2:43PM
I'm not saying that male performers can't make good directors. Shit, there's enough examples proving that wrong. However, the cream of the crop male performers either edit their own movies or have significant experience inside the edit bay. Performing is one thing. Being able to deal with the creative and technical intricacies of film making is a whole 'nother matter.

For any production company, the ideal would be to have a performer director. One who can make good movies and is available to perform for others.

All I'm saying is without considerable knowledge gained from the edit bay, performer or not, nobody will become a decent director. It is that experience which is invaluable.

Chico

Zoid
Senior Member

Boobies and Anal
2004 Posts
5/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 3:00PM
Maybe they use storyboards.
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 3:06PM
I couldn't agree with these statements more. So, to round them all up, perhaps we agree that some of the best directors in the business are performers (or ex-performers) who have significant editing experience, and who are true perverts with an eye for what they want.

At Evil Angel, when we took on the distribution of Jules Jordan, Jonni Darkko and Justin Slayer, the thing they had in common that stood out was that they were all true perverts and fans of pornography. I think I can safely say that about all the directors who distribute at the Evil Empire. And my husband is the king of the perverted!

 
Ramsey
Senior Member

Trina Michaels fan
10332 Posts
10/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 4:30PM
Who wants to be a director like Paul Thomas anyway?
Chico Wang
Member

775 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 5:35PM
The beer pig is drunk off his fucking mind watching the bikinis roll by at the Boardwalk. I envy the buddha.
TonyC
Comstock Films

2523 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:45PM
I'll add my amen to this. I watched the footage my DP was shooting for me get better and better and better as he fought his way through editing his first feature.

I'll add another amen to Chico's "shoot not to edit" comment. Video encourages a "shoot everything and then find your movie in post" approach. 19 times out of 20 it's a lazy and ultimately inefficient way of doing things (I've been as guilty as anyone.)

Having some idea of what you're doing, and "shooting not to edit" creates better footage and leaves the editor to choose between good and better instead of bad and worse.

-T.C.

DenverDon
Benevolent

Firmly Embedded in Depravity
5914 Posts
7/02
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:49PM
I like the way you state that.

DenverDon

bigbadwolf16669
Deactivated User

387 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jul 10 2004 : 6:54PM
Im not a dorector but if i was rich,with my ideas yeah i would take my chance in the porn bisness
Chico Wang
Member

775 Posts
1/04
Posted - Jul 11 2004 : 5:21AM
The edit bay is intregal especially if you're a cameraman director. I know alot of directors who just keep sludging out scene after scene and have never even sat in an edit bay. There's no growth pattern here. If you can't see what you're doing wrong and your editor has to cross dissolve out of every sticky situation, in general, your ability as a director will remain limited at best.

Of course, the key to any great director comes straight from the head. A pervert's eye and a vision. But in order to incorporate these perverted, creative visions and apply it to the final product requires a serious knowledge of the edit bay which teaches you camera work and style, rhythm, pace, flow and storytelling (yes, even in porn, there's a story being told albeit at a very minimal level). Some people like Silvera and Jules have it. Other people with their formulaic, every scene looks the same, cookie cutter bullshit will always remain in the gutter.

I think this Darkko cat is one of the best and to my knowledge he has never participated in a D.P. on-camera. Just because he was never a performer to me does not distract from the fact he's one of the best directors I know.

Who knows. Maybe I'm talking out of my ass.

Chico

Renee
Member

765 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 11 2004 : 11:26AM
Do most performer-directors, even if they don't sit with the editor in the edit bay, take a look at the final film once the editor is done? Do they at least give some direction to the editor about what the film should look like?
bridgette
Bridgette Kerkove

228 Posts
7/03
Posted - Jul 11 2004 : 2:21PM
Completely! If I don't see what the editor has done how can I know WHAT he has done. I give Chico direction on the format of the movie. From graphics to music, to how I want it cut(some intro's I have him speed the film or slow it down depending on my vision). Then when he is completely done, I go over it-and usually make more changes!LOL But he loves his work so we work great together.

xoxo Bridgette Kerkove

TonyC
Comstock Films

2523 Posts
8/03
Posted - Jul 11 2004 : 5:46PM
One more comment on "shooting not to edit"

Depending on a wide variety of variables, I typcially budget 1/2 day to 2 days of organizing and editing per minute of screen time. Obviously if one is expected to turn out a 120 minute video per month there simply aren't enough hours in the day to edit at this pace. But Zero Tolerance's approach in Non Stop, Drive Thru Porn might actually be an answer to the problem; and Chico's comments about how important time in the edit bay is are germane.

20 minutes of uninterupted footage of anything from someone who doesn't know how an editor turns raw footage into finished stories would likely be as dull as watching paint dry. But a cameraman who is a real student of filmmaking with a real passion for shooting sex just might pull it off. I'd lay even money that they result would be at least as watchable than the 120 minutes in two days editing that most porn gets (probably more so because there wouldn't be as many eratic jumpcut or "if you can't solve it, dissolve it" moments) , and it's two days of not having to sit in the damned edit bay too!

-T.C.

OREN
Anarchy Films

250 Posts
12/03
Posted - Jul 12 2004 : 1:21PM
First, beautiful Bridgette refers to Chico Redfield, not Chico Wang and I have to agreee with her. Chico is a great editor and him and Pinki, his wife, really love what there doing and it shows.

Second, I just love the new trend of female talent becoming directors. The Kerkoves have started the trend and now it's booming. I've rather watch an Ariana movie or a Bridgette movie over some old stinky director. The Porn industry is so man dominated that it is a nice change. Diversity is spice of life. And I also think that now female performers have a choice, they don't have to work for an old smelly guy anymore, they call the shots. When the time is right for them, they don't have to work infront of the camera if they choose not to. They have options.

Oren
Anarchy




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