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All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 426 > Evil Angel = technically inferior
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Prophit
Member


378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 9 2009 : 5:56AM
Why is it that the best studio out there is always behind the competition in terms of technical quality?
They shoot in HD now but their DVDs don't have anamorphic widescreen transfers! Most people probably won't even notice this but it's really getting on my nerves because their movies look totally crap that way and the advantages you get from shooting in HD are squandered.
I'm not going to pay 20-30 Dollars for a technically inferior product...
Please, Trishia, if you are reading this could you speak to someone who is responsible for that kinda stuff about it? Thanks.
Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jan 9 2009 : 12:23PM
hey it is a business...I imagine that it can get pretty expensive to keep up with technology that changes almost weekly.
Sheky666
Member

100 Posts
2/01
Posted - Jan 9 2009 : 3:20PM
Anamorphic vs. Letterbox has been part of the DVD spec since day 1. The DVD authoring apps that I have used it amounts to nothing more than clicking a checkbox. No excuse but lack of attention to detail.
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 4:05AM
Exactly. Seriously I don't know why they do it. Maybe you can squeeze a little bit more playtime on a DVD that way but since they often include 2 DVDs in their movies anyway I don't see why they should do that.
In the past mainstream movies didn't have anamorphic transfers because not everyone had a widescreen TV and people wouldn't complain about the "black bars on their screen". But seriously what's the reason today? Almost everyone has HDTVs these days!
killbillvol69 All-Star Supporter
All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18631 Posts
4/08
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 4:31AM
Maybe in your neighbourhood they do... I only know one person with an HDTV. And he doesn't live in my neighbourhood.
 
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 5:17AM
Okay maybe I exaggerated a bit. But sooner or later everyone will own one and then they will want to watch their movies the way they were meant to be watched.
phatbasey
Senior Member

1390 Posts
1/05
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 12:01PM
I too do not want to dog Trica or Evil Angel but I agree with Prophit. For the price they charge per movie they should be state of the art.
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 2:08PM
If you spell my name right, maybe. :)
When we receive an anamorphic master from a director, we DO author the DVD as anamorphic.
Each of our directors owns their own product and has their own editor, so we don't technically control the edit process. I have repeatedly asked the directors who shoot in widescreen to please give us an anamorphic master.
I do agree with you that it shouldn't be difficult and I don't have a better answer for you than that.
I know that John Leslie gives us anamorphic since he started shooting widescreen. Jay Sin JUST started shooting widescreen. John Stagliano's latest Buttman movie was anamorphic.
Manuel has been having problems with his editor and is aware of the problem.
Are there any other of our specific directors that you're seeing it with? Off the top of my head, I can't remember any of our other directors shooting HDV but not doing anamorphic.
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 4:25PM
Interesting. I didn't know that the directors themselves are responsible for this!
I mainly have this problem with Belladonna's movies. All her new ones are letterboxed. I don't know if she is technically one of your directors but her stuff is released under your company so I thought I should ask you about it.
Oh and sorry about your name! :)
HarryWild
Member

Make me believe
622 Posts
2/05
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 4:40PM
I personally think most studios are just wait for the prices to come down on equipment. Plus it a recession too! You make due with what you have until you think it the right time. When HDTV is 35% of the households then I would do it! Most still have standard definition TVs.
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 7:16PM
Yes - all of "Evil Angel's directors" are independent producers, and we distribute the movies that they own.
That's why Jules Jordan and Justin Slayer each brought their movies with them when they started selling their own movies.
I'll make sure that Bella sees your concern. She definitely cares a lot about her fans.
Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 7:40PM
Tricia, I don't wish to get into the specifics of your deals with the various directors who release their titles through your label, but is there a sort of time limit when Evil Angel has exclusive distributotion rights to their titles, or can they just walk away at any time taking their films with them? Are their films completely self-financed, and Evil Angel just acts as distributor? Which films does Evil Angel fully finance and are fully owned by you?
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 14 2009 : 7:44PM
OK, just talked to her. Her current movies are formatted anamorphic. Of the last several movies, Oddjobs 4 had some scenes that were shot originally in standard def. But Evil Pink 4 and Foot Soldiers should be anamorphic.
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 3:15AM
Thanks for talking to her! That's what I call customer service. :)
Ok then I suppose her movies being letterboxed was just a temporary thing. That's what I was hoping for! Thanks for clearing that up.
bauer024
Senior Member

It is what it is
1345 Posts
12/05
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 4:43AM
Belladonna has the new camera System RED ONE her stuff will be top shelf soon with that thing

Dan
RED ONE Cameras

 
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 5:07AM
Wow really? I was under the impression that these cameras were probably a bit too expensive for the porn industry.
This is crying for Belladonna porn on Blu-ray! [:P)]
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 12:13PM
I just confirmed that Christoph's movies are also indeed anamorphic. I was pretty sure, but I wanted to be really sure first.
Len-
The movies owned by John/ Evil Angel are the ones that don't have another production company logo on them. That would include the ones directed by John, and the Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women movies from Tristan Taormino and the Buttman Comics Presents movies.
All of the other director/producers finance their own movies. If a director chooses to leave Evil Angel, they would have a time frame when they could use the Evil Angel logo in association with their previously-released library movies, and then they would need to remove our branding from their movies and especially the packaging.
At the time when they are with us, they release new DVDs exclusively through us.
Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 12:18PM
Thanks very much for the informative reply Tricia. But can you just clarify one more point: if a director decides to leave Evil Angel and you have a sizeable inventory of DVD's in warehouse/duplication plants/pipeline, what happens to the product?
Edited by - Len801 on 1/15/2009 12:22:27 PM
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 2:04PM
That's fairly detailed. All of our producers know the answer and could get clarification if need be.
ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03
Posted - Jan 15 2009 : 8:33PM
i thought most people shot in HD now even if they don't put out bluray and stuff? that way they'll have it for the future to put it on an HD format.
or at least that's the impression i got from talking to Ivan...
HD cams aren't THAT much more expensive than SD cams when you look at it. to get something decent youre gonna have to drop a few grand so pay one more and get HD...that's what I think at least.
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 2:00AM
Some directors don't like an HD image for porn. It removes some of the fantasty element. There's also a different framing situation which means that when you switch to HD, you have to switch the majority of your camera angles and you lose some of your favorites.
Those aren't necessarily all my opinions, just some comments I've heard here and there over the last few years. I think the super-sharp image comment is a valid one both ways. In one way, it can be an awesome thing. And then again, when you have a great sex scene, but the performers have less than supermodel-perfect skin, do you really want to be seeing it in HD on a big screen TV? Some will answer yes, and I've also heard others answer no.
That being said, David Lord and I were the first directors at Evil Angel to release an HD-quality DVD (a Windows media HD disc enclosed with the standard def set). That was back in... umm... 2005 or 2006.
Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 3:10AM
"Vault of Whores" right? I remember that one, liked it a lot. So I guess that made you one of the pioneers in releasing porn in HD! Then I don't understand why Evil Angel is so shy in releasing movies on Blu-ray right now. Can we expect more of those soon, Tricia? Any chance to see some of Belladonna's movies on Blu-ray in the future?
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 11:52AM
Thanks for remembering. :) I adore David Lord, and even though we both have really strong personalities on set, I'd direct with him again in a heartbeat if the opportunity ever presented itself.
As I said before, it's up to the directors. If people start buying more Blu-Ray product, I'm sure more of our directors will feel encouraged to put their product on Blu-Ray.
Dennis774
Member

29 Posts
12/08
Posted - Jan 16 2009 : 10:36PM
Tricia,
Regarding the pricing of blu-ray titles, I have noticed that most studios release their blu-ray titles at about a $10 premium over the DVD version. Is that price difference the approximate additional cost per disc it takes to author a blu-ray title...or has the authoring prices come down now to the point where the additional expense is negligible?
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 1:08AM
If only 200 people buy a DVD, then the cost per disc to make the Blu-Ray would be significantly higher than $10 extra per disc.
 
Jaktarn
Senior Member

4798 Posts
5/05
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 4:49AM
Great topic, its very insightful about distributon and the technical aspect. Really interesting that the red cam has reached the porn world. Cant wait to see that.
I Cant wait for some really big orgy/gangbang films shot on HD/RED being released on blueray, it would be great with that high resolution with everything thats going on in the scene.
Dennis774
Member

29 Posts
12/08
Posted - Jan 17 2009 : 7:45PM
Tricia,
Thanks for taking the time to respond on the technical issues involving DVD production, it is really interesting to get answers from someone from the inside. I have one more question that is a bit off topic (and I apologize in advance if you have already covered this topic elsewhere). I have noticed that when Evil Angel advertises their new releases in AVN magazine, many times the street dates in there are much earlier than the actual street date. I frequently will browse thru AVN and see your street dates, then check online to place an order and notice the date of shipping for the DVD will be sometimes a few weeks later. The most recent example I was about to make purchase for Deep Anal Abyss 2 (street date Jan 16 in AVN), but on most online DVD stores (including EvilAngel.com), the street date is now Feb 09. On my end, I have always assumed the delay was caused by the video not being finalized or some production issue...but I would love to hear from your end what issues arise when trying to meet a street date deadline.
tricia_devereaux
Evil Angel DVD

Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous?
4283 Posts
4/00
Posted - Jan 19 2009 : 1:15AM
^ many times? Or more like 1 in 20 times?
When it happens, it could be due to a bunch of things. That's all.
Ivan
IamIVAN.com

BestPORNweekEver.com
295 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 10:04PM
To me the whole HD thing scared me at first and I had the same reservations about it being too sharp. I still believe that. There is a reason we have make-up put on the girls. But with all that extra sharpness you see all the blemishes, etc. But with HD you are stepping into the future of technology. Look everything is going digital then eventually everything is going 16x9. So with shooting HD whether you release it in HD or standard you have that part of your future covered. In the past people not educated complained about letterboxed movies, thinking they are losing the top and bottom of the image when in reality they were seeing the entire image the director wanted them to see. BUT in the future with everything going 16x9 movies shot in 4x3 standard will be questioned in that way. Where the next generation will be asking why are there black bars on the left and right of the image? Funny how generation and technologies change.
My opinion and again just my opinion is shooting in HD prepares you for the future in quality and framing. When I first got to Anabolic my first movie and every single one since has been shot 16x9 anamorphic first being standard 16x9 and eventually leading to shooting in HD. At first I hated it because I felt I was losing some image space but after a while I learned to love it because it opened me up to new creative ways of shooting. It's like directors who shoot 16mm worry about shooting 35mm and the ones who shoot 35mm are afraid of 70mm because there is more to fill but after a while they realize it's not more work it's more space to be creative and that's how I treated the change.
Plus if HD is too sharp for you. Shoot in HD and downres. at least at that point you have down res. 72 hex 480 imagine but still have the raw tapes in HD quality, sharpness and sizes for the future.
www.IamIvan.comAnabolic, the Barry Bonds of Porn
bauer024
Senior Member

It is what it is
1345 Posts
12/05
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 10:10PM
the RED One is going to change a lot of things as it gets into the industry i feel we are still i would say a year or 2 out for many studios using it

dan

Ivan
IamIVAN.com

BestPORNweekEver.com
295 Posts
6/04
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 11:24PM
At this point renewing equipment when most people are financially drowning is a tough order. Unless some fell off the truck somewhere around Chatsworth
www.IamIvan.comAnabolic, the Barry Bonds of Porn
Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 12:40AM
The RED camera is entirely overkill for porn. It shoots up to 4k resolution which is great if you will be transferring to film and projecting it in a theater, but pointless if you are going to down convert it to a 480p standard def DVD or even a full 1080p Blu ray disc. Trust me. I would LOOOOOVVVVE to shoot with the RED camera but there is no viable reason for it at the moment.
bauer024
Senior Member

It is what it is
1345 Posts
12/05
Posted - Jan 22 2009 : 3:06AM
thanks mike i never thought of that or considered that whole line of thinking those camreas are nice and amazing for the price still
Dan
arkdvd
Member

103 Posts
1/06
Posted - Feb 4 2009 : 1:47AM
content producers with questions may want to attend the HD EXPO in march.
there is a FREE workshop on RED also if you register now.
hdexpo.net/march/Mar_registration.html
mariemadison
Member

57 Posts
2/04
Posted - Feb 4 2009 : 10:05AM
Great thread!
If a Director is shooting in HD, or even Widescreen, there's absolutely no excuse for a Letterboxed
Transfer. That's either lazyness or incompetence in post. As I understand Tricia's explanation, this
falls squarely on the Director's shoulders at Evil Angel, and to their credit, it always should.
The thing I've always loved and admired about Evil Angel is the fact that they bend over backwards
to present the Director's vision exactly as the Director wants it presented, and while aspect ratio
is maybe a weird thing to discuss, if porn fans weren't inherently techno savvy, we'd all still be
watching our smut on VHS tape.
To the defense of the Director's, how aspect ratio is presented on the DVD is very much a
post production issue and if Belladonna is proofing her film on anything but a Widescreen
HDTV, there's no reason why she would even notice, or have a reason to question whether
or not it was 'anamorphic'.
I switched to HD production last summer, and the learning curve is steep. It's not just different
angles, it's a new way to light, and expose and even panning and zooming has a completely
different feel. As Ivan so eloquently put it, HD forces you to find more creative ways to shoot.
But as a Director, there are times when I'll still pick up my DVX, simply because it just feels
right in my hands, I still love how the picture looks, and I can make that thing fly.
Shooting in HDV is real work, and from where I sit, Blu-Ray is a long way off for me, but
I also believe to an extent, it makes me 'future ready', so I'm willing to put in the work.
But I also make sure my post company knows what they are doing.
- Marie Madison

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