Having been watching a lot of Brandon Iron directed movies in the last couple of years, I was quite offended when I visited the latest updates to his Cover My Face site today. Because who do I see as Brandon's newest update? Haley Paige. In all honesty: What was Brandon thinking when he added this scene to his site on 7 Oct, 2007? Did he shoot the scene a couple of months ago and didn't he want to leave it lying around un-used? Did he have a feeling it would generate extra interest? It seems like a very strange, inappropriate choice no matter what the outcome of the whole Haley Paige/Chico Wang saga will be. The only plausible excuse would be that some else, say Brandon's granny who doesn't have all the information, does his website updates for him. I don't know if I'm in the majority or minority when I say I simply can't watch scenes anymore once I know the actor/actress in them has died ( Savannah, Jon Dough, Haley, Chico ) but it totally surprises me that Brandon, who I've always held to be smarter than that, adds the scene to his site more than a week after the news of Haley's death broke.
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tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Oct 15 2007 : 9:15PM
I am almost certain this is the case. From my understanding, Brandon does not manage the schedule or day-to-day operation of his site. It is run by a corporate entity called "Braincash" who manage many websites. Brandon allows the use of his name and delivers raw video footage to the Braincash people who then decide how they want to present it on the site. Its entirely possible that this scheduling was made up by someone who doesn't even follow porn news -- he's just doing his job. It might even be an automated process that was decided way before the Haley Paige event happened. Either way, I agree that it is unfortunate timing for the scene to show up NOW. But eventually you'd want to release the scene. There are tons of people who watch porn but don't particpate in forums or follow the behind-the-scenes. To them, Haley might just be a new pretty face. No reason to deprive them of their fantasy.
Thanks for your possible explanation Tritone. I'm almost fully agreeing with you, except for your ' But eventually you'd want to release the scene ' line. Surely not everyone who watches porn is informed about all the ins and outs of the industry, but if I was the one who had to decide if the scene should be released and I knew what was going on at this very moment I'd skip it. Because personally I wouldn't find it the right thing to do, but also because it's not really a clever thing to do. Better lose out on some money than risk getting a bad name. Just like I never really respected recordcompanies who started releasing every possible Kurt Cobain, 2 Pac or Biggie outtake... Somehow I had no probably with Eyes Wide Shut being released after director Stanley Kubrick's death, but I guess that's because it's a feature film which serves a different purpose than a porn flick.
It may be seen as tasteless by those who follow the stuff but it really isn't a big deal in terms of content on a website. Fans of hers want to see as much as they can. See Anna Malle or Britney(sp?) Madison. Their movies still sell. John Dough movies still sell as well. So do John Lennon records. Consider how many albums Jimi Hendrix has "released" posthumously. Not releasing scenes that have already been shot is like erasing part of what someone did. EDIT:typo
Edited by - conquistador on 10/15/2007 10:40:43 PM
As I said: I'm not having a problem with viewers which have no knowledge of what happened, I'm just wondering who decided the scene should still be released ( no matter what ) and what ( if anything ) was going through that person's mind at the moment of making that decision. To me content is never just that: Content. Then again: professionally I'm not in sales or anything along those lines so I probably have a different view on decisions like that. If somebody with no porn world knowledge added the scene to the site then fine, if it's a personal site which Brandon does the updates for...I've got a problem with that. It'd change my perspective on him irreversibly. Hoping not to sound too pathetic here but I'm kind of intrigued how industry an industry really is.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 15 2007 : 11:08PM
I see where you're at. And I am sure Brandon Iron will say something about it. I just think of it as a performance. If a Hollywood movie star were to expire shortly after completing a movie, regardless of the circumstances, I would still want to see that last movie they completed. Death is an unfortunate symptom of all forms of life. It does not change what a person did while they were alive and it may actually make their life's work more fascinating. I would rather appreciate or even celebrate the dead then "sweep them under the carpet". It is not such a harsh or unfeeling thing to still view and enjoy something that a performer did. Imagine if deceased authors never got published.
' I would rather appreciate or even celebrate the dead then "sweep them under the carpet". It is not such a harsh or unfeeling thing to still view and enjoy something that a performer did.' ok, let's focus on the word 'enjoy ' here. For me it's different when it concerns porn. Surely I can still watch a movie or read a book by someone who died recently ( or longer ago ) but usually while viewing porn movies I'm not just appreciating a girl's beauty...I'm masturbating too ( might come as a surprise...). Which would mean I'm looking at a girl who recently died, not knowing if she was murdered or not, if she od'd or not or even if she wasn't totally satisfied with her life and may have committed suicide. Somehow that does make that quadrupple facial a little less enchanting for me. Same goes, for different reasons and to a lesser degree, for the pov movies Jon Dough shot and, partly depending on what the outcome of this whole tragedy will be, for all the Chico Wang movies I own. If he turns out to be a murderer I simply can't watch his movies anymore. If he's not to be blamed for Haley's demise I guess I could still watch the stuff since mostly he's the director and not the actor in question. I guess direcotrs and actors tend to forget you ought to like them to be able to identify with them. Never really forgave Vince Vouyer for screaming at Brooke either when she didn't oblige when he ordered her to lick his balls. Yes, readers, never thought that, after being just a reader for a few months my first input would be so psychological...
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 15 2007 : 11:48PM
I see where you are coming from. No worries here. When watching movies I don't really connect her and Chico so I don't end up questioning things. Our tastes are clearly different. We won't agree and do not need to. Anyhow, you haven't been posting very long here and all of your posts have been rational and intelligent. Not to mention relevant. Please carry on, this is very good. I look forward to reading more of your posts.
I am responsible for directing that the Hailey Paige update go up at www.covermyface.com. I asked that this be done when I was in Montreal from July 17th through July 31st. I had no idea the exact date when the update would occur and it is honestly and truly an unfortunate set of circumstances that it comes up at this particular time. I had no knowledge at that time that she would die and neither did the content managers at Braincash. Prior to visiting Montreal, I had been away from Los Angeles for 3 additional weeks. I was behind in my updates and felt that adding Hailey's scene as well as other scenes from the Photographic Mammaries dvd series would fill the gap for www.covermyface.com. Other scenes in addition to Hailey's were scheduled to be put into the update rotation. No order was decided and it was done randomly from a list that I gave to Braincash in July. I'm sorry if the timing of this update offends you. It certainly was not meant to. I enjoyed meeting Hailey and my sympathies go out to her family for her sudden loss. Like the content I have featuring Britney Madison, I am unsure the best way to handle it. On the one hand, both Britney and Madison were gifted performers who developed a fan base because of their on-screen personas. On the other hand, it seems in better taste to honour their memories in some other way. I really don't know how to express some sort of gratitude for having had the pleasure of knowing her for a brief time. I'm not sure that removing content is the best way. It would seem to me that removing that part of what she did would be some vain attempt to pretend it doesn't exist. It does and nothing she did on camera for me denigrates her memory as a great adult performer. It's not just my work, it's hers, too. She built a catalog of scenes that reflect one side of her personality and I would much rather remember her as a sex goddess than as a drug user or victim of some violent act. At the funeral for Jon Dough there were many photos of him when he was younger. There was an effort made to celebrate his life. Likewise, Hailey will be remembered by those who met her, hired her, and performed with her. I don't have any tangible things of hers other than the single scene she did for me. I'm proud to own it. I am happy she gave her all that day. I don't see it as offensive to her memory.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 2:19AM
Thanks Brandon. Death is a rough topic but one that is very important to those who are alive.Is exactly the same way I see it. It does make some people upset though... (Blatant attempt to plant an idea in Brandon's head : Toronto girls are very beautiful.)
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 3:01AM
So your gonna keep the video up...that's fucked up...this and the McKenzie Pierce thing...?
You know what's worse? I went to Blockbuster and those assholes had the audacity to have John Belushi movies on their shelf...in plain view....for all to see! I tried to lighten my mood by going to the comedy section and staring me right smack in the face was Planes, Trains, and Automobiles starring John Candy. John Candy!! What were they thinking?? Next to that was a Saturday Night Live dvd featuring the best of Chris Farley. I nearly went back to living in a van down by the river when I saw that one! From Marilyn Monroe to George Reeves to Phil Hartman, their work is their work and it should be allowed to be appreciated. You have some sort of hidden agenda that I can't figure out. If it's not how I speak to talent that work in my shoots that bothers you, it's how much they earn (even if it's a rate that the talent themselves agreed to at the time). You are bothered now that Hailey Paige's update gets put up on one of my sites even though I have given an explanation detailing how it came to pass. Pick just one cause and pursue it with a little more vigor, please. Otherwise, you come off as some guy with a chip on his shoulder.
Brandon, Your behind the scenes candor here on this board has done a lot to help boost my respect of your industry and your work. Thanks. Raging bull is pretty much set on trying to provoke some type of childish "Michael Richards" response from you at every opportunity. Another thanks for demonstrating how best to deal with a heckler. Armchair nickle-backs never demonstrate their brilliance outside of pointing out kinks in the armor of others. He has nothing standing in his way if he wants to show you how to produce, direct or manage a product line of his own to perfection...... Yes it's a little controversial just like the Twilight Zone movie, The Matrix Reloaded, Aliyahs last album, Tupoc Shakurs last album and many more where death occurred prior to completion for someone involved in the production.
This Girl was a real prize. She even got a little humanity out of Khan Tusion. Perhaps a dedication or even better behind the scenes footage of her just having fun would help. Either way it's up to you. Sorry I misjudged in the past. Congrats and good luck in the future on the new signing.
NJ, unless you think there should be some shame involved, I am not sure why this update would be inappropriate. Were it not for her sex scenes, we wouldn't even know she existed. Let's remember her for who she was: a porn chick.
It probably all depends on what your viewpoint is. If somebody was perfectly happy with his/her career, really enjoyed some drugs usage and simply od'd, then I would have less of a problem with it. Somehow I view this case as a different kind of situation so then I would feel sort of ashamed ( the shame factor you refer to ) to watch it. Just like I skipped Darren James scenes when I heard he was hiv positive and I really couldn't know if scenes were shot before or after he had caught the disease. Still, Brandon is entitled to his choices and opinions and the fact that he asked to put this scene up in the second half of july means he didn't sit at home last week with an I-don't-care-I'll put-it-up-anyhow attitude. Talking about shame: I guess I'm a little bit in innerconflict about why I exactly watch the movies I watch. For instance: As soon as a girl starts to make a career out of porn I somehow lose interest. I'm not into the Jenna Jameson's of this world so to speak. Best example: I really liked Devin Valencia before she really knew what she was doing and lost interest when she returned as Amy Ried. She then turned too much into a US Valley girl for my European taste I guess. But that means that I like a scene more when a girl is around 19 years old and acts like a McKenzie Pierce. Which means I kind of get off on the fact the girl is stretched ( psychologically not physically ) beyond her limits. If in that case you can ' trust ' the actor or director it gives a scene a certain edge which a scene with a starlet who just acts shy or embarassed would miss. Nothing beats reality after all. But if things go over the top ( I vaguely recall a Tony T/Aiden Layne scene ) I lose my appetite. On that note I find it hard watching a Haley Paige scene without wondering what was going on in her head at the time and if she deep down wanted to be in that place at all. With Natasha Nice you know she's pretty much of a perv herself so even when Steve Holmes seeks the limit you know she can handle it, with Tyra Moore you feel she makes clear beyond which point there will be no action, with Haley I could never figure all that out and her death, suicide or murder leads me to believe she wasn't totally happy. Then again: It's all close reading, trying to give meaning to things which may not even have so much meaning. But hey: I could very well understand the people who are totally opposed to so called terrorists ( especially when their loved ones died in the 9/11 attacks ), but, form their viewpoint, I also totally understand why Osama/Al Quaida did what they did, so don't mind me...
that's approximately the most difficult smiley I've ever seen....does it mean: Every story has two sides? If not: More explanation needed.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 7:36PM
It means: Huh? Like I am not sure what your post is trying to express. But I also am avoiding picking it apart because I think that I am probably missing something somewhere along the way and I don't want to say anything foolish.
Right on, Brandon! These people that think you did this on purpose are vindictive and spiteful. I believe your explanation and agree that a person's work should live on after their death. Sort of gives them a bit of immortality. And aside from having kids and passing down our DNA, aren't we all looking for a bit of immortality? mod: fixed the quote Edited by - hardware on 10/16/2007 9:50:07 PM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 10:49PM
Those other people you named our artists, specifically some of the best comedians to grace the planet. I am sorry I don't consider kneeling and taking 7 loads on you face art. It is smut and serves as a way to masturbate and fulfills a kind of sexual fulfillment. And it the kind of scenes Haley did to get her smack money. When you first responded to this post you made some kind of excuse about how you were in Canada when they uploaded it. Now, you claim it is up in honor of her?
ragingbull, taking your post in the most positive light, you really need to re-read what Brandon wrote. Taking your post in the worst light, you're trolling. So... please re-read Brandon's posts. Being a comedian is akin to being a porn performer in that both comedy and porn provide entertainment. The value you put on each type of entertainment is not a universal truth.
You can bait me all you want. You can say whatever you want about what motivated Haley to do her scenes. If what she did was so distasteful to you, I have no idea why you would even care in the first place. Be that as it may, my explanation is very clear and easy to read. I suggest you do so. I was in Montreal in July. I wanted to maintain an update schedule and instructed the technical personnel at the internet company to take all the scenes that involved multiple facials from the Photographic Mammaries dvd series and put them in the update rotation for www.covermyface.com. I did not know Haley would die and I did not know the exact date on which the update would occur. Please go find someone else to bother.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 11:33PM
Sorry if you feel I am bating or bothering you. I understand how it could be a mistake to update it. But its not like you backed away from it. You seemed to say it was a fitting tribute for her. I guess it is an old scene so it was already on public record.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 11:35PM
I am not a troll, I think most people in society respect comedians more then porn stars. When you a kid your parents throw on a comedy not a bukkake.
Raging Bull: You're misreading/misinterpreting Brandon's comments. He said he was in Canada when he told Braincash which scenes to use as newest updates, you're suggesting he used being in Canada as an excuse for the scenes being up on the site. He only explained this was already in the works before Haley died and said the timing was just unfortunate. According to me it wouldn't be such a big problem to make a quick call with Braincash and let them take it off because the situation asks for such a decision ( it's a matter of good taste in my humble opinion ), but Brandon explains, and that's his right although I fully disagree with him, that people, including Haley, should, even after they died, be remembered for what they did in life ( or at least that's what some other contributiors have said and as long as the scene is on the site I'm led to believe Brandon agrees with their viewpoints ). So although I think you're putting words into mr. Iron's mouth in this case, I kind of agree with your first paragraph. Although there's definitely a quality difference between one porn flick and the other we all know that comparing it's actors/actresses/director's with the work made by novelists/feature film directors/musicians is a bit odd. Maybe some porn directors had a wish to become a ' real ' movie director, like some of their actresses would have wanted to become fashion models, but although try outs like Fashionistas will have you believe otherwise, most of us wouldn't look at a really good scripted porn flick when the girls involved looked horrific. I guess that comparison speaks for itself in showing why some works can be considered art and some works can't. Adding to that: This old Chico Wang quote ( written after he stopped filming for Diabolic and when Haley, after quitting the industry, was about to do her first girl/girl scene ) kind of suggests her boyfriend wasn't really a big fan of her comeback...no idea if that led to hotile behaviour...but it might be interesting to know when this ' latest update ' from Brandon was shot. Was it an old scene which was put up as a new one...or was it indeed a new one solely done by Haley to, as Bull implies, pay for her habit?! Although usually I get fed up with Digital Sin compilation dvd's being presented to us as new material, right now I hope the scene came from an older dvd.... Quote Chico Wang: I have given my blessing for Haley Paige to return to porn. She asked me today if she could do Girl Girl scenes and softcore for GoldstarModeling.com. I gave her my blessing. I try not to get involved with her personal decisions unless she askes for my advice. Though we have been in a completely monogamous relationship since she retired, I understand that work is work. I have been blessed by working with some of the largest Internet companies in the business currently who give me the freedom to do what I want. I have been so busy and calculating my new sites with investors and my own monies that I haven't had time to be with Haley as much as I'd love to. I prefer not to get involved in her work. I think she quit doing porn because she felt guilty and knew that I would also fool around. But the choice is hers. I guess I'll have to give Haley's pussy a rest so she can get back on the ball again. You will see her this weekend on GoldstarModeling.com back in action. Chico Wang Haley can do whatever as long as she doesn't give me anything. It's her choice to return but I think she feels a little guilty because I've been supporting her during difficult periods of her life including the divorce from a Hungarian fraud to her miscarriage to her battle with painkiller addictions. I'm absolutely serious when I say that I've been completely monogamous with her for the past 8 months when I thought I gave her a STD through another girl whose name I won't mention. I caught it; fortunately, she didn't and I promised it wouldn't happen again. I believe she chose to go back to L.A. Direct though Joel Lawrence from GoldstarModeling.com is my best friend in the industry. She's been with L.A. Direct from the beginning and I support her on whatever decision she chooses. In between scenes, she's studying to get her B.A. and she's making a remarkable recovery after all the bullshit she went through before we started dating. Whatever makes her happy. I told her I'd continue to support her and her education but she wants to be more responsible with her life and finances and whatever I can do to help and benefit will be there. Chico Wang situation in the meantime, between Haley's departure and return to porn: Chico Wang Senior Member 1146 Posts 1/04 Posted - Mar 31 2007 : 07:22:38 AM
Steph wrote: Take some time off, hang out in your speedo. Go roam around Baja for a few with your girlfriend - hot springs, beaches and tasty food await. Thanks for keeping us posted. Good luck in your future ventures. Steph, If I wore speedos, I'd scare the infants at the beach. It kind of sucks. I just recently got Haley a regular job and now I don't see her often. She's my sugar momma cause I'm unemployed :). The ventures are there. I usually take my time to decide. I'll keep you all posted.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 11:54PM
This was an old scene. I think Brandon comparing his stuff to classic films is hillarious. Its his choice, I was just agreeing with you earlier.
Yup: Photographic Mammaries part 2, reviewed around june 2004. Which means Brandon is by no means to blame for shooting the scene ( different time in history ), you can only wonder why it's being presented as a new update in october 2007 ( but that's an entirely different story, a lot of websites do that to make double money from two overlapping, but different markets ).
This is the second thread this guy has been a moron in. You don't like porn then don't watch it, fuqtard. You want to watch porn but you have to then rub it with some sort of false personal morality like Pontius Pilate washing his hands. And giving crap to Brandon Iron on top of it? Brandon paid for and owns the content on his site. It's his to utilize as he sees fit. That is the way capitalism works. YOU don't own it. If you want it removed from public view make him an offer for the rights. If you just want to whine then get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich, bee-yatch.
Guam: Basically all Raging Bull is doing is laughing out loud at the fact Brandon is calling his work art and comparing Haley's scenes to those of canonised classic artists. To be honest it's more moronic ( not just Brandon, also a lot of others ) to be involved in making porn and suggesting you're working in a different field. I mean I've got about 15 Brandon Iron titles at home, but I use them for one single purpose. Some scenes I view more often than I would watch a Blockbuster action movie, but for totally different reasons than when I watch, say, Lost in Translation for a second time. ' That is the way capitalism works.' Hate this comment. Sure it is. But we expect some kind of decency & understanding in a civilization. If not: We see if the law can help us out. If not 2nd version ( say if it's a political situation and the US doesn't support the country you're from ) people turn to other means to bring capitalism to its knees.
@ragingbull You don't have to be. Instead of assigning your values to Brandon, I suggest you just recognize that your opinion isn't revealed truth and let it go at that. doh! wrong poster
Edited by - hardware on 10/17/2007 12:18:57 AM
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 12:28AM
Also, I do watch porn, that doesn't mean I can't see the depravity of it. I remember when I was a teenager just seeing a pretty girl give head was hot. Now, the girl has to choke on the dick, their has to be 12 guys..etc... I like porn but sometimes I have to point out the ridiculous nature of much that is produced today. And you're Brandon has been polite and well written in all his posts.
Fair enough, but porn doesn't have a monopoly on ridiculous entertainment.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 12:32AM
And yes I have Brandon Iron titles because they are good for a pop. They bring me visceral enjoyment, but to compare it to classic film or legendary comedians is ridiculous.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 12:36AM
Definitely not. Most TV is garbage, and all the celebrity shows and magazine like Star and US Weekly suck. Luckily, tons of great films are still made and magazines like The Economist present a serious but realistic view point. I also read the the Times. For whatever reason, a lot of porn now is just lets see how much we can degrade and humiliate this young girl.
regarding your previous: After you finished laughing at their jokes, just exactly what did you take away from their comedy routines? I don't recall ever thinking that Belushi had the solution to the Middle East conflict. Edited by - hardware on 10/17/2007 12:38:39 AM
You win. I have been baited. Short of putting this in all caps or bold font, I have no idea how to tell you that I did not compare what I do with what Blockbuster puts on its shelves. You are being very conniving and manipulative and it's not genuine. You made the point that the update should be taken down. I disagreed and merely countered with the fact that other forms of entertainment do not take down or remove their content solely because the person in it has passed away. Examples were given but I never claimed any connection of that work to my own. I didn't want Hailey to pass away. I don't want you to pass away. I just want you to pass...like a fart...and evaporate into thin air. Smell you later.
' And you're (sic ) Brandon has been polite and well written in all his posts.' ' I just want you to pass...like a fart...and evaporate into thin air. Smell you later.' Maybe you should re-think that one Raging Bull. Mr. Iron tends to be polite when being complimented about his work, not when being critically scrutinized. It's worth some further observation. But in my case: Not today.
Sorry, no more baiting for me tonight. Family Guy has me laughing and no amount of logic-twisting will get me to go down any more meadering mindfucks you want to set. Enjoy your evening and I apologize if I mistook your verbal/printed diarrhea for farts. They both smell similar.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 1:55AM
Oh yeah, his posts show he plays the polite guy. But any kind of analysis of his motives or criticisms of his actions and he gets short. And using flatulence as a metaphor, on your DVDs it says you have a BA in English, one would think you could be a little more creative...
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 2:02AM
To reply to Hardware: No, I don't think Belushi had the resolution for the Middle East. Sadly, nobody does. However, certain musicians and certain films do hold a dear place in my heart.
I have been reading this thread from the beginning, and it looks to me like this Raging Bull is full of bullsh-t. Just a trouble maker. If he doesn't like porn, why does he have over 380 posts on this site? He sounds like an idiot.
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ragingbull Deactivated User
404 Posts 5/07
Posted - Oct 17 2007 : 2:28AM
Obviously you didn't read what I wrote. I have been watching porn since I was a child. This was a very specific issue. I think uploading a bukkake video of a girl who has recently passed is terribly crass. I do like porn: I like high heels, a cute girl, a sexy bj, 70s porn etc...; Due to diminishing returns and the advent of DV, much stuff today is nothing more then a filming of humiliation, because that ups the ante, because girls are in so many scenes. No spirit, no soul, no sex, rather degradation. And yes I have watched this stuff and all, but if you expect me to consider it art or not to relate my true opinion, then I regret to inform you I will not do so. And, I have never name called Brandon Iron the way you did me, I just explained the view point I took.
