~ GaySatyr

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I grew up in Central Penna, went to college in Pittsburgh in the Western part of the state, and now live in the suburbs of Philadelphia, on the eastern side of the state. Plus I have relatives all over the state.

I really question anyone saying the state is overly conservative. I lived for 3 years in Central Michigan (in the Midwest), and found the people there to be more narrow-minded and less friendly than any of the people in the various regions of Penna. And the racism and lack of understanding about different ethnic groups that I found in Michigan - don't get me started!

The results of the US Senate Republican primary are of no more significance than what they stand for, the results of this election alone. Specter is a moderate Republican from the city of Philadelphia (and he used to be a Democrat). Toomey is a stauch Republican from the counties about 100 miles north of Philadelphia. By and large, if a candidate is from Philadelphia and on the liberal side, he/she will automatically have a tough time in Western Penna, simply because of the divide between the state's regions, since politically the state is more like two states, and people will simply vote against someone because they are from the wrong side of the state.

And remember, only registered Republicans can vote in a primary election. However, a jury pool for the Extreme trial will be drawing from the whole population of Western PA, which is more Democrat than Republican (labor unions are well established in the state.)

I believe that Western Penna. was chosen for the Extreme case for a number of reasons, little of which have to do with the people of that area.

1. MaryBeth Buchanan, the Federal D.A. there has had successful child porn proscecutions, and is considered a rising star in the Justice Department. She already had a pool of postal investigators at her disposal, when they began investigating Extreme.
2. Pittsburgh is only a 5 hour drive from Washington, makes it easy for the people in the DOJ to follow and attend the trial/proceedings, and to work with Buchanan and her office.
3. There are far more conservative populations in the South and Midwest, but it was difficult to start a case in those regions, because Extreme didn't sell videos by mail to many places in those parts of the country. They did sell by mail to all of Penna.

Well, we'll see how the whole thing pans out. I know back last August/Sept. there were some long-running threads about the case; you can find them using the Search function above.

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This might be a little away from the thread topic, the Extreme case, but you and DavidK126 introduce some points with which I am familiar.

Although I live in Southern California now and have for a long time, I was born and raised in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and am a Penn State alum. I too have travelled the state fairly extensively.

Although I don't have any references or hard evidence close at hand, over the years I've seen or come in contact with data to support some of DavidK126's information about Pennsylvania's statewide and regional demographic. From age, cultural, political, idealogical, racial, religious philosphy, and other sociological perspectives. And much of this data does give credence to his contentions as to why Pittsburgh was chosen as the locale to try this case.

You also appear to have local knowledge and pertinent facts that are germane to the philosphical atmosphere surrounding the case.

Without steering this too much into Pennsylvania political history, (i.e. how a Liberal Democrat from Philadelphia gets elected Governor of a what really is a fairly conservative state that HATES Philadelphia, or how the Democratic machine has controlled the governorship for most of the past 50 years, while the state keeps sending Republican senators to Washington, etc..), I think that DavidK126's premise on the site selection for this case is pretty well founded.

Plenty of census data shows that Pennsylvania is one of the oldest, as in an aging population, states in the country. And plenty of polling and political canvassing data illustrates that outside of Philadelphia and parts of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is one of the most conservative states in the country. Frustrated are the many national Republican leaders that know they own Pennsylvania, if they could just do something about Philadelphia and downtown Pittsburgh. And the Western Pennsylvania region that produces or enthusiastically supports people like Pat Toomey and Rick Santorum would be a good place to wage this battle.

Back when I was in college, and doing coursework On the anti-porn crusades headed by the Ed Meese Commission on Pornography, which ROnald Reagan set loose upon us, I found that two members of Meese's mob came from my own state of Pennsylvania.

I guess my bottom line point is this:

In my experience, and from my view, Pennsylvania IS a fairly conservative state. Both politically and culturally. The rest of Pennsylvania HATES Philadelphia, (which means it is a relationship similar to the dichotomy between Detroit and the rest of Michigan, and to a lesser extent New York City v New York State, and Chicago and the rest of Illinois.) But the difference is really palpable in Pennsylvania, and during my time in State College when I traveled Upstate Pennsylvania and the Western regions, and in the succeeding years, I became very aware of the deep-seated conservative bent of the people.

BSD

Edited by - BSD on 5/6/2004 12:50:59 PM

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In response to Renee's question, I would like to retain my anonymity. I'm originally from Central Pennsylvania. May I just say that my knowledge of overzealous prosecutions of this sort in Central Pennsylvania is as a result of unfortunate personal experience, and, as a consequence of that experience, I now reside in another state on the Eastern Seaboard? Through personal experience, I learned a lot about the underlying thinking of those in public life who make decisions of the sort under discussion here.

Of course, Renee is right that the jury pool in the Extreme Associates case will be drawn from more than just folks who voted in the recent Republican Senatorial primary election. I also agree that prosecutor Buchanan is a part of the reason for choosing Pittsburgh as the venue. I doubt, though, that union members as a whole in Western Pennsylvania are likely to be particularly tolerant about the issues that the government will raise in this case. Renee's third point is pretty interesting--that Extreme Associates did not mail their products to some states in the South and West. It is important to recall that the case also includes material that was delivered over the Internet.

This may be arcana of interest only to current and former Pennsylvanians such as Renee, BSD, and me, but Western Pennsylvania voters' notorious regional chauvanism was not a factor in the Spector-Toomey contest. Toomey is a native of Hong Kong who moved to Eastern Pennsylvania, and his Congressional District is in the Allentown area, just north of Philadelphia.

The purpose of my original posting was to caution those who might be comforted by the fact that U. S. v. Extreme Associates et al. is not going to tried in some obvious backwater. It is going to be tried in a less obvious backwater.

Now, I'm going to take Renee's suggestion and read those other threads and see if I can learn some more about this. I appreciate her calling them to my attention.

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I just want to add, having lived in four different parts of Penna, and in the Midwest, I would take anywhere in Penna over the latter. I don't know about how people feel about obscenity issues or pornography between the two regions, but I know I couldn't deal with the racism and lack of understanding about different ethnic backgrounds that I found in Michigan, that is far less prevalent in Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties. After 3 years in Michigan, I was fed up and moved back East again.

Yes, it's true that the big cities on the East Coast are more liberal than Western Penna., so I can see why the trial will be in the Western part rather than a place like Philadelphia.

For everyone's info, the auto license plates in Penna read: Pennsylvania - America Starts Here!

Before that they read: You've got a Friend in Pennsylvania!

Does the above apply to Rob Black? We'll have to see.

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The federal government would love to have a jury of all Lancaster County residents, but the way the federal court system is organized, that is impossible. They have abandoned Harrisburg as the prime venue for prosecutions of this sort, as a significant population influx into that metro area has resulted in a more socially diverse (and less conservative leaning) population. To underscore that, Specter won both of the Harrisburg metro counties over Toomey in last week's Republican Senate primary by big margins: Dauphin by 17,274 to 14,780 and Cumberland by 16,445 to 13,481.

The Pittsburgh area, by contrast, is in a long economic slump, without much in-migration and with a greyer population overall.

I totally agree with you that Pennsylvania has a greater degree of tolerance of ethnic diversity than one might find in many other places and that many of the people are really friendly and caring. As it happens, that probably will not be of much help to the defense in the Extreme Associates case. I think that the venue is very adverse for this particular defendant for reasons that I will discuss only if people here are interested.

Finally, lest anyone think that it is impossible to have fun in Pennsylvania, please note that many porn folks are from Philadelphia and environs, that porn shoots are done in Philadelphia with some frequency, that virtually every week some porn performer or two travels to the city to do escorting, and that two-girl live sex shows are staged in a couple of non-alcoholic strip clubs every weekend. Nobody involved will be on that jury in Pittsburgh, though.

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