After seeing BIGmike's topic about how much he dislikes Extreme Associate's stuff, I thought I'd make one in their favor. I know, I know - most everyone here hates their unique brand of porn but who really gives a shit? Obviously if anyone can't take it, they shouldn't even be watching porn in the first place. Extreme's stuff is beyond anything on the scene today but they ARE using consenting adults after all - and thats all that really matters. There are still plenty of us fans around the world who like Extreme and always will! They are making some of the best porn today outside of Private and Anabolic/Diabolic and I hope they get more extreme and push the limits even more. Yeah, I may be sick for liking their stuff but I don't care! LONG LIVE ROB BLACK & EXTREME ASSOCIATES!!!
Ok BIGmike, don't get your panties all in a bunch - relax, you'll live longer! Now, are these quotes yours or not? "I was looking at Extreme's website today...and let me say Lizzy Borden is one sick fuck. She has made one of the most vilest sounding films of all time...Forced Entry about Richard Ramirez, why? Why must you sick fucks give ammunition to Ashcroft? You are going to ruin porn for everyone!!!" Now after reading all that, doesn't it sound like you don't really like Extreme's brand of porn? I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you don't like it, don't watch it - simple as that!
I meant in that thread, is that Extreme will bring all porn into question. Because they are an American studio, not European, so if that video falls into the wrong hands, well anyone's hands, it could mean big trouble.
You just don't glorify murder and rape in porn, because porn is under enough scrutiny as is.
So I wanted to add that it doesn't matter if it is consentual, no 60+ year old judge will find that as being entertainment. Well that or any porn for that matter.
---I'd rather be anywhere but here, but I’m here and not anywhere---
Ok BIGmike, don't get your panties all in a bunch - relax
how did you know I was wearing panties, lol.
---I'd rather be anywhere but here, but I’m here and not anywhere---
[Link]
Steve K. Deactivated User
840 Posts 11/01
Posted - Feb 10 2002 : 6:24PM
Asmodeus,
I am totally with ya on this. Extreme Associates is one of my top 10 favorite studios and I hope they keep going strong. Lizzy Borden is a tad on the wierd side, but she is hot.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if you don't like it, don't watch it - simple as that!
This is well and good intentioned, but I'm sure that some bible-thumper will read the description of this film, and say Oh my lordy. Then they'll bring it up to their representatives, then they will label it obscene based on description alone. It does not need to be viewed to be judged. All it takes is one person to look at the cover description and think all porn is that way.
I do NOT support censorship in any form, but with titles like Forced Entry, I'm sure it will bring up memories of the victims families, whether it be of murder or rape.
So I ask is it neccessary to push porn to that level?
---I'd rather be anywhere but here, but I’m here and not anywhere---
BIGmike wrote:1. I doubt the families of Richie's victims will be renting an obscure video by a hardcore porn company like EXTREME ASSOCIATES.
2. Too much emphasis is being placed on this porn flick because of it's depictions of homicide and abuse.
You may all remember the controversy when 'NATURAL BORN KILLERS' and 'HENRY- Portrait of a serial killer' were released.
Despite all the outrage NBK has been released on dvd UNRATED. I don't recall massive protests against it !
To simplify the issue, given time, films like FORCED ENTRY will become more widespread and acceptable, because we humans are evolving in to a more tolerable species.
Just a quick example:
'The EXORCIST' was banned in the UK for over 20 years, but has recently been given a widespread theatrical and dvd release. What did the people in the UK say about the film today ? WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL ?
Too much emphasis is being placed on this porn flick because of it's depictions of homicide and abuse.
well yes, because niether belong in porn. Porn follows a simple premise: fuck, suck, fuck some more, cum and cum again, fuck some more, repeat several hundred times.
Once you start depicting murder and rape in porn, you are opening the door to prosecution.
I could give two fucks about what is done in a video, if I don't like it, I won't watch it. But someone will watch it and take offense, not me, not much can offend me. I know what I like and what I will buy, I love Extreme Associates and their willingness to push the limits, but they've got to be careful not to push too far.
All it takes is one person to change history.
---I'd rather be anywhere but here, but I’m here and not anywhere---
That's oversimplifying the issue. To point to the general trend of accepting more sex and violence in the media and extrapolate that into hardcore sex and violence together will become more acceptable means taking a huge logical leap.
By that logic, snuff films, public executions, and child porn are all things that, given enough time, will be socially acceptable in civilized society. That would be hardly a sign that we're becoming more tolerant, just jaded and apathetic.
As someone who's watched more porn than a majority of the population, I freely admit that I'm not the shining poster boy of morality. And when someone like me says that stuff by Extreme and Anabolic is out there, that should say something. I shake my head when supporters of these companies try to claim that they represent a huge portion of the viewing public. If that were the case, then Vivid wouldn't be pushing their vanilla stuff and companies like Private and Hustler that have deep pockets wouldn't hesitate to push that line. But aside from the fact they know that there *is* a line, more to the point they know that there isn't a large enough market for Rob Black-type product.
I don't know why people can't be comfortable saying "I enjoy this type of porn" instead of hiding behind "There are many of us that like this type of porn" or "Eventually everyone will like this type of porn." Why on earth would you care whether people express their dislike for it? It's obvious that Extreme Associates doesn't give a flying fuck what the rest of us think. What are you afraid of?
Nope, it'll be someone who watches porn and wouldn't shed a tear if Rob Black landed in the slammer who will send their district attorney's office a copy of that obscure video. I wouldn't be suprised if sometime down the road a competitor or an enemy turns him in.
Actually, there were quite a few people protesting about Natural Born Killers. The big difference between NBK and this Extreme DVD, is that NBK is not obscene. Take a look at the three things a movie must have to be considered obscene:
The average person applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; My guess is both NBK and Forced Entry would fail this one.
The work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the state law; I don't remember there being that much sex in NBK, but there may have been. However, I can't image any jury deciding that an explicit "how-to-rape" video was not offensive.
The work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. Here's the one that definately gets NBK off the hook. Say what you want about the movie, but you have to give it up to Oliver Stone... he had some serious artistic vision going on when he filmed that thing. Add to the the whole "political" angle, which was trying to show how we've become too obsessed with mass murderers and such.
Now I admit I haven't seen Forced Entry, but are you trying to tell me that it contains serious literary, artistic, politcal or scientific value? That's just nuts.
My advice to anyone who really wants to see this video? Buy it quick, cause this baby is going down . I just hope it doesn't drag the rest of the adult industry with it.
I'm wondering what sort of people movies like Forced Entry and the older Rough Sex series is attracting to porn. I mean, why does a person want to buy or rent a certain porn flick in the first place? It's to see a depiction of a sex act they've fantasized about, like a gang bang or oral or whatever. So what kind of person is going to be getting Forced Entry?...it's just my opinion but I think it'll be people with violent fantasies against women. I mean really violent fantasies. Does the industry actually want to cater to such people? Do actresses want to have to worry about true sociopaths following them around instead of the horny but generally harmless fans around them now? And this says nothing about the ammo such movies give Ashcroft and his lackeys, obscene or not obscene. *Very* scary territory IMHO.
Fratboys and other slobs. People who watch pro-wrestling, "Banned" video comps (ie. amateur video of people being hit by trains, backyard fight clubs, Faces of Death, freak show materials, etc.), Jerry Springer, and so forth. The idea is that groups of 18-27 year old male couch potatoes will watch this stuff, throw back some beer and yell "can you BELIEVE the SHIT?!" at one another.Right, same difference.
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Steve K. Deactivated User
840 Posts 11/01
Posted - Feb 11 2002 : 9:30AM
Well if Forced Entry comes to dvd I know I will be getting it along with alot of other people. I love rough sex scenes, and I have never seen a scene like this so it should be interesting. Sometimes I think people take things too seriously...everyone needs to chill out and just enjoy your porn...I know I will.
--Now I admit I haven't seen Forced Entry, but are you trying to tell me that it contains serious literary, artistic, politcal or scientific value? That's just nuts.
It doesn't.
--My advice to anyone who really wants to see this video? Buy it quick, cause this baby is going down
It will be like the Rough Sex line, they released only so many, and those who got em, have em, the rest I believe were destroyed.
--Well if Forced Entry comes to dvd I know I will be getting it
It won't, it will be released in limited supply, because there will be a backlash, through their website and never make it to DVD.
---I'd rather be anywhere but here, but I’m here and not anywhere---
Saki wrote:I don't believe you read my post carefully enough. I wrote "film LIKE Forced Entry"
You have simply applied YOUR logic to my post and have sensationalised the issue by mentioning the above acts, which is in itself illogical.
Saki wrote:
I am more than comfortable saying that I will get this film when it makes it to dvd and judge it upon its merit. You should also note that I am not the only one who has offered a defence for this film or this type of porn. So how many of US are there ?
The problem with saying 'US', is the obvious assumption that all people who enjoy the harder side of porn, will become categorised as one group. This grouping of the population is done by those who are too lazy to look in to the depth of the human psyche and are unable to differentiate between INDIVIDUALS.
Clubber wrote:
You've missed the point. This example was to show that the film NO LONGER has the shock value that it once had.
Joeblow69 wrote:
Would you say that a large majority of porn falls in to this category, Jeoblow ?I suggest you watch the dvd again. The killers clearly attained sexual gratification from their crimes.
I'll stop there for now 'cos I've got company and she likes to be entertained
Thanks Joeblow, you're putting forth some well thought and insightful comments.
Firstly, let me clarify that I do not think that 'FORCED ENTRY' is the next best thing since sliced bread. (the film has not been released yet, so I have not formed an opinion).
I am arguing for the right of freedom of expression
I strongly believe that if a film is made with consensual adults for viewing by consensual adults, it should be made available because we exercise our constitutional right, to do so.
Now lets discuss the issue of normality
What is your definition of ‘NORMAL’ ?
Normality is one of the biggest problems in society today. We live as social animals and are EXPECTED to behave, act , dress and ultimately conform to the ideals of society. (These ideals, are for the most part, based on the religion of your environment).
You have made a statement , which in itself is a basis of personal judgement.
We have to stop passing judgement upon others just because they do not conform with our norms.
You need to remember that when the issue of obscenity is raised in the Court of Law, it will be others passing judgement on the acts of porn which you may find NORMAL.
From Hardz:And just what is it that Ms Borden is trying to express with this movie? What message is she trying to convey? Is there some underlying political message that she is trying to get at?
Even freedom of speech has its limits, and obscenity is not protected speech. So the question is, is it obscene, or not? My guess is we will find out soon.
I don't argue that point. The government doesn't either, for the most part. Cross the obscenity line, and that's another matter.I only brought up "normal" because it is the "normal" people that will end up on the jury that decides this movies fate. ADT porn fiends (myself included) will not get an invite.Yep, as a society, we have laws, and we expect people to abide by those laws. Otherwise we'd have anarchy. Now if you don't like they laws, then you need to grease the hands of your local/state/federal polititions.This doesn't scare me in the least. Just about any gay kink you can think of that ends up on film can be proven to be a valid sexual release to a sizeable portion of the gay community.
Fisting? Sure, lots of gay guys do that. Not huge numbers, but significant.
Pissing? Yep, it's been done.
Rape? Actually, there have been a number of gay flicks that feature gay rapes. Usually, though, these involve rape "fantasies", and they certainly don't end in a bloody mess.
The bottom line is that obscenity trials are bad for porn. The more of these flicks come to trial, the more vanilla your porn will get. Do you want all your future pornos to conform to the Cambria list?
From Hardz:Perhaps you see a distinction, but the emphasis on "like" doesn't really change the meaning. Whether you are talking about that specific film or films that are similar, you appear to be implying that they will eventually become acceptable.That's nonsense. You cite NBK and imply that films LIKE Forced Entry will be similarly accepted at some point in the future. It may be sensational to extrapolate your logic as far as I did, but it's no worse than trying to compare apples to oranges as you did. To quote the poet, "you opened the door...let's go on in."Wow. You're expecting that it has merit? I mean other than the ability to arouse those who enjoy that sort of content? Or are you using the term 'merit' in some other context?And you should also note that there are just as many who have offered criticism. So what is your point?That's simply a practical impossibility. It's a fact of psychology that everyone classifies everyone and everything into groups and makes inferences on those groups. Your statement above is a perfect example of that. You criticize a GROUP of people for grouping and making generalizations about others. The irony of that is not lost on me.
Audrey Madison Interview
Posted - Feb 10 2002 : 5:51PM
