I'm not picking on you personally. The points you've made, though, are commonly held myths, and I'd like to address them.
1. "There isn't anybody willing to take the chance of making it and releasing it."
US Studios shoot scenes that include fisting with some regularity. They shoot them, and release them in Europe. They shoot them and release them on their websites. They shoot them and edit them out before distributing the title in the US.
They also get to use the 'missing' scenes to enhance the sexual reputation of the performers, in essence, using it as a marketing tool.
Look at this another way. German, French, Dutch and Italian studios shoot titles with fisting and release them (through Nova and I) in the United States. At this writing, I have close to 300 fisting titles in active distribution around the US.
2."Also, a lot of store owners are worried to put something with fisting on their shelf, especially with the Extreme Associates trial not decided yet."
It's true that some store owners would get hassled for stocking titles with fisting. It's equally true that there are stores that would have no trouble stocking them. And the store owners have a responsibility to know what their prosecutorial neighborhood is like. (And you know the funny little secret about the supposed store 'uproar' over the accidental distribution of the unedited "Tampa Tushy Fest"? None of them were returned.)
The link to the Extreme Associates' trial is a non-sequitir (sp?), though. None of the titles at issue include fisting. So the prosecution of the case, and its decision have no bearing whatsoever on whether it's 'safe' to carry fisting titles in a given store. Further, that prosecution is focused on videos bought over the internet, and on VOD from a website. There's no bricks and mortar store involved at all.
The most common explanation is the same one you offered about Valentine video in Canada. That is, it's easier to send 1 version across the entire country than to manage multiple versions.
I used to buy that, but I don't anymore.
The reason I don't is for that to make sense, I have to believe that distributors don't know anything about their customers, their customers' markets and characteristics. And they'd have to be extraordinarily bad salespeople not to know those things.
This has been a little (?!) rambly.
But my points in summary would be: American studios *do* shoot fisting scenes now, and they *do* release them. They just don't release them at the retail store level. They keep the premium content for the European market and for their own 'private' distribution. There are now over 300 fisting titles that *are* in distribution at the retail store level in the US, and have been for more than 5 years.
So, why do the myths persist?
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
I understand what you're saying. I know that they shoot the stuff, it's just not released in North America, mostly. Over 300 titles titles are available at retail?, how many of them are US shot? probably very few and of those I bet Max Hardcores are at least 90% of American fisting titles out there. Why pay a girl extra money to do something that the company can't capitalize on in the retail marketplace? Sure they can make it available online to their web site members, but as far as sending a large amount of pieces out the door all over North America with fisting in them, it just doesn't happen. I've never seen an Evil Angel, RLD, PXP, or another other top gonzo company release a title with fisting in it in North America. I've watched tons of pornos in the last 13 years or so and have never seen a US based fisting title in any video store other than Elegfant Angel's "The Whole Fist". I did see a European fisting dvd made in America at my local store ONCE. That's it. I just haven't seen the stuff. What are these 300 titles you are talking about, just wondering because I've only see 2 or 3 of them made in the US in the last 13 years, and I'm in an area where it's not a risque thing to stock the shelves with.
Certainly fewer than 10%. But that's kind of my point. European companies shot fisting videos, and distributed them in the U.S. And although it's admittedly an exception, Dino (DBM) shot 3 fisting videos in Las Vegas and San Francisco and distributed them in both Europe and the US.
Also, I'm splitting the two parts of the argument: (oversimplified) "We (US studios) can't shoot them because we can't distribute them." OK. Someone else shot them ,and they still got distributed in the US. Videos and DVDs from DBM, Videorama, Scala, MMV and so on sit on the retail shelves along side the US studios' output.
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
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nudity Deactivated User
168 Posts 9/02
Posted - Feb 2 2004 : 8:32PM
Scott Kinney wrote: "US Studios shoot scenes that include fisting with some regularity. They shoot them, and release them in Europe."
Scott Kinney, could you give me some examples of US studios that release fisting material in Europe? I live in the Netherlands, where such material would be legal and in demand, but I can tell you that I have NEVER seen a video or DVD claiming US fisting content!! Of course it is possible that US studios sell their fisting scenes to companies like Puaka or MMV, where the scenes end up in some anonymous compilation DVD (e.g. "Best of Fisting"). But even this I can not confirm.
vodka tonic said: "That included a nightclub toilet, ecstasy, 4 fingers and unrequited feces." (That sounds like a strange recipe to me. I wonder if cobalt is willing to admit it in the ADT cook book.)
Still wanking after all these years. 8082 Posts 10/00
Posted - Feb 2 2004 : 9:40PM
Some specific titles please
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nudity Deactivated User
168 Posts 9/02
Posted - Feb 2 2004 : 10:11PM
CyberDVDX has several titles from Metro, Mayhem and Heatwave. Are some of these Euro versions with fisting? It is possible, but I doubt it. If you do a search by genre: "fisting", you only get Maeva and Lucy titles.
JM Productions: I think that a couple of titles in "The violation of ..." series are available in the Netherlands. But as far as I know in US version.
Zane, Notorius, Empire, Elegant Angel, Danger Boy Video, Sticky Video, Fantastic: all practically unavailable.
Please provide some specific DVD titles of US porn with fisting, which are currently available in Europe!
Thank god for Montana!!! Montana also hass fully totally nude dancers in full service bars!!!!
Most retail stores that I know of don't carry anything that might be considered "illegal" for the simple fact that it's not worth the trouble. When a "brick and mortar" store carries the title it is their responsibility to know the community standards which are not defined. Most "communities" will NOT go after a local owner, but if a store is owned by an out of state person all sorts of legalities are imposed. I know of a regular video store that stocked a very large quantity of adult videos that may have been borderline "illegal." But the video store was one of the first video stores in this particular town, locally owned and well respected. The same town also had a "porno" shop. The porno shop had more movies but decided NOT to carry "controversy" titles that their competitor stocked for fear of prosecution. Sounds crazy but thats the way it is.
IAFD, supporters of beastiality. Just say no. 7564 Posts 11/02
Posted - Feb 3 2004 : 7:09AM
Since you are so sure that none of the stuff that I have rented from brick and mortar stores is available in Europe, I don't see the point in providing a list with these titles at all.
cal444 said: "Every faked orgasm, should be appreciated, according to the sincerity behind the performance put forth."
[Link]
nudity Deactivated User
168 Posts 9/02
Posted - Feb 3 2004 : 2:14PM
It will be interesting to see how this thread develops.
I just checked EroDVD, CyberDVDX, Orgazmik, Vidshop and Buy-NowShop and did not find US fisting titles.
Notorius' titles like "Splash" or "Babysitter #3" are licensed for European distribution by XXL. These are the uncut versions, with the fisting and wet scenes intact. XXL dubs over the American soundtrack, and translates the boxcover into German. Do they market the video as "US Fisting"? No. It's "Spritz!" or "Babysitter Teil 3".
The same would be true of Zane's titles; whether "Stuffed", "Czech Extreme" or "Backdoors to Prague".
So, no, I'm not surprised that looking for "US Fisting" didn't give you any search results. The European companies distributing the titles simply don't advertise them that way.
There was a thread not too long ago that listed a number of the specific titles and the stars involved.
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
Scott is, of course, correct. Zane's titles were released with German titles by the German studio EFA, who also release the Euro versions of Max Hardcore. Vidshop, though not personally recommended, used to have these in their catalogue.
can someone please tell me if they are going to release the unedited version of Bella loves Jenna in Europe? I remember reading somewhere that Jenna fisted Belldona in that film, but of course we here in the States will not find it; because they edited it out, and you know that we will not find it here....
Bella beeing fisted sounds interesting. :-) I just wanted to buy this DVD, but if there would be an uncut version available (in Germany)... Anyone knows more about this?
Despite what you say Scott the whole situation is a mess. Trying to track down euro versions that are renamed, dubbed and often missing extras from the US version on the off-chance that the fisting has been included is hardly an ideal scenario. As for Skeeters stuff, despite his general claims even he doesn't seem to know exactly what is contained in his euro versions or who sells them or even what they're called! Then you have the laughable prices Jaded charge for euro versions of Max films on VHS - not even on DVD!!
Nobody likes the thought that they are missing something. I think most consumers would rather not know the scene took place at all than have the thought of it dangled in front of their noses only to be told that their money hasn't bought them the 'privilege' of actually seeing it. Worst of all is to be told that you can see the bits you've been denied on the website but only if you cough up again. Cheeky cheeky bastards.
Still, the status quo must at least be good for you Scott? I'm not being funny here, but surely for you the very last thing you want is for these titles to all be available on every street corner and for you to lose your USP?
I agree that the whole situation is a frustrating mess. From my side of it, I'm tortured constantly by producers who say, "Yeah, I shoot that all the time. I'll think about doing a special uncensored version..." 1 month, 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, still thinking about it. One in particular that drove me nuts was the fellow who had footage of Ariana fisting Kobe Tai...
As for Jaded's price on Max Euro-versions, I'll just say that retailers have very little room on those particular titles. The wholesale prices are astounding.
Actually, in my dream world, fisting becomes the new 'anal' and all of the titles would be sold either by me or Nova. And Raffaella Rizzi would have her own line of titles directed by Gabriel Pontello. (Hey, it's my dream world!)
And, truth be told, I'm starting to silently thank the US studios for leaving the field completely open to me.
What got me into the thread, and it's really a hot-button for me, was the flat statement that 'fisting is illegal in the US.'
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
I got it right that fisting in hardcore DVDs is legal in US?! And the only reason these DVDs aren't available in the US is that it might be not legal to advertise them? If that's not the reason - I can't understand this.
That my main issue with porn. If it's done, and on film, then release it all intact. I don't like the idea of getting a "cut" film, that's just wrong. It's like buying a Twinkie, but having no cream inside. I really hate it when I read that so & so fisted so & so, but haha, you ain't gonna see it...
I just checked out Max Hardcore's site, and downloaded every trailer, damn there was a lot of fisting in them... now if somebody doesn't buy the Euro version, they're missing half the damn film, just about, with the other half being the cut wet scenes... yet Jaded and Scott's site are the only sites where you can buy these films.
You've got that right.OK, you're a little off the rails here. There *are* fisting DVDs available in the US.Nothing illegal about advertising them either.
Scott Kinney Diversified Video Associates www.xxx-imports.com
Scott. Although I've visited your site several times before I never realised you sold Max's videos too, if I had I would have phrased things slightly differently (not that this changes anything I still feel the prices are outrageous whatever the reason). What I can't fathom though is how the uncut euro dvd versions are so much cheaper than the US vhs versions. Is the reason you don't stock his euro dvds simply because they are PAL?
