For the love of porn?

Author	Post
Jonsy Deactivated User Oakland 4 Posts 3/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 7:09PM Many actors in film and TV, and almost all in theatre, are willing to accept a modest living wage for the love of their chosen art (same goes for comedians, visual artists, etc., novelists, musicians). And even the successful film actors typically have to come through many lean, uncertain years to get to the point where they're banking six figures or more. The average porn actress obviously makes much better money for their time, and gets paid quite well from the start. If porn girls were paid more like theatre actors and (most) film/TV actors, and if they had to work for many years often for little money, would the industry collapse? Or are most of these women working for the love of porn, and it's just a bonus to them that they get paid well doing it? Just curious what everyone thought! [Link]
Moronicus J. Malechild Member 27 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 7:59PM Yeah, that would pretty much kill it off. Most just want a quick easy paycheck for... well, whatever the reason, or that's the impression I get from watching the movies, reading porn boards and blogs, etc. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 8:06PM Porn performers are already paid like theater and film/tv actors, which is to say that in either market producers pay the least amount of money possible that will ensure a reasonably reliable result. [Link]
Jonsy Deactivated User Oakland 4 Posts 3/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 8:37PM TonyC wrote: Porn performers are already paid like theater and film/tv actors, which is to say that in either market producers pay the least amount of money possible that will ensure a reasonably reliable result. Click to expand That's trivially true in a market economy -- what you've said holds equally for hitmen, drug dealers, plumbers, school teachers, firemen, and so on. My question, rather, is why does it take so much more money (and money up front, as it were) to obtain a 'reliable' supply in some of these vocations and not others. In particular, for the average porn actress to do what she does, rather than for other actresses? Or are the economic disparities merely contingent truths, happy accidents as far as porn actresses are concerned, and that they would in fact do it for far less, much like film/tv/theatre actors? This would be acting, as I say, for the love of porn. Is there a substantive explanation here beneath the economic disparities, and does that explanation cast porn stars in a rather unflattering light? [Link]
Learned Hand Member 175 Posts 2/06	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 10:05PM Jonsy wrote: My question, rather, is why does it take so much more money (and money up front, as it were) to obtain a 'reliable' supply in some of these vocations and not others. In particular, for the average porn actress to do what she does, rather than for other actresses? Click to expand Ummm. Because no little girl dreams of being paid $2000 to fuck on camera? In case that is not explicit enough for you: little girls do dream of being paid millions of dollars to act in legitimate movies and all the glamor and fame that comes with it. All that table waiting and toiling in the trenches is in service of the potential big payoff. Most normal careers are similar. We dream of the big payoff and are willing to sacrifice in order to get there. Very few people indeed dream of being the next big porn star. Instead, most people associate being a porn star with shame and embarrassment. The "big" money that porn stars are paid is not because they are on the top of their career ladder. It is compensation for taking a socially undesirable job. Julia Robert's grandmother certainly is proud of her granddaughter and brags about her all the time. Can the same be said for Jenna Jameson's grandmother? So. Change society so that the tabloids feature the private lives of porn stars and porn stars are considered role models. Give the best of the best $90 million one picture salaries. Make it so a city the size of LA is filled with people dying to break into porn and put classes on directing, editing, and writing porn in every major university. Once you have done that we can talk about forcing porn actresses to struggle and scrimp for the honor being associated with porn and for the grand chance to rise to the top of their profession. [Link]

elgringoviejo58 Senior Member 1460 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 10:18PM Jonsy...how much money "up front" would it take for you to take a facial, get DP'd by a coupla well-hung Bubbas, get throat-gagged, bukkake'ed, or even take a "vanilla" reaming up da butt? I can't imagine the pay scale being any lower than it is now. [Link]
JC Lee Deactivated User 7 Posts 11/06	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 10:51PM Learned Hand wrote: Jonsy wrote: My question, rather, is why does it take so much more money (and money up front, as it were) to obtain a 'reliable' supply in some of these vocations and not others. In particular, for the average porn actress to do what she does, rather than for other actresses? Click to expand Ummm. Because no little girl dreams of being paid $2000 to fuck on camera? In case that is not explicit enough for you: little girls do dream of being paid millions of dollars to act in legitimate movies and all the glamor and fame that comes with it. All that table waiting and toiling in the trenches is in service of the potential big payoff. Most normal careers are similar. We dream of the big payoff and are willing to sacrifice in order to get there. Very few people indeed dream of being the next big porn star. Instead, most people associate being a porn star with shame and embarrassment. The "big" money that porn stars are paid is not because they are on the top of their career ladder. It is compensation for taking a socially undesirable job. Julia Robert's grandmother certainly is proud of her granddaughter and brags about her all the time. Can the same be said for Jenna Jameson's grandmother? So. Change society so that the tabloids feature the private lives of porn stars and porn stars are considered role models. Give the best of the best $90 million one picture salaries. Make it so a city the size of LA is filled with people dying to break into porn and put classes on directing, editing, and writing porn in every major university. Once you have done that we can talk about forcing porn actresses to struggle and scrimp for the honor being associated with porn and for the grand chance to rise to the top of their profession. Click to expand How dare you submit a post that doesn't suck-up to a porno druggie infected with anal warts or e-coli sickness gotten from unsanitary sex acts for money in front of a camera while screaming "feed me your shit-flavored dick"? You'll now be deactivated. Toodle-doo. [Link]
Jonsy Deactivated User Oakland 4 Posts 3/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 11:21PM Can Learned Hand actually believe what he says? Really that's extraordinary. Whatever helps you sleep at night, old chap! [Link]
Raoul Duke Member When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro 306 Posts 2/07	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 11:40PM Jonsy wrote: Can Learned Hand actually believe what he says? Really that's extraordinary. Whatever helps you sleep at night, old chap! Click to expand The man gave you an honest and, quite frankly, dead-on correct answer. And, because it's not the answer you're phishing for, you mock him. That's Trolling, son. Oh, well. Whatever helps you sleep at night, old chap! [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Mar 8 2007 : 11:40PM Learned Hand wrote: Ummm. Because no little girl dreams of being paid $2000 to fuck on camera? In case that is not explicit enough for you: little girls do dream of being paid millions of dollars to act in legitimate movies and all the glamor and fame that comes with it. All that table waiting and toiling in the trenches is in service of the potential big payoff. Most normal careers are similar. We dream of the big payoff and are willing to sacrifice in order to get there. Very few people indeed dream of being the next big porn star. Instead, most people associate being a porn star with shame and embarrassment. Click to expand Well, you're real close, but then you went off on the shame nonsense. The reason why porn needs to pay, relatively speaking, big bucks up front is because there is NO PAYOFF down the line. There is no multi-million dollar deal for the cream of the crop star. There is no hall of fame. There is no pension. There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Don't throw Jenna or the other freaks of nature in my face. It's so rare for a porn performer to hit the timing/marketability/publicity jackpot that Jenna is the only one anyone's ever heard of. (there are others, but most folks haven't heard of them) [Link]
JC Lee Deactivated User 7 Posts 11/06	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 12:26AM Kimi Lixx wrote: There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Click to expand Shouldn't you offer this wise "shot-out has-been" advice to an anal-wart-infected, high-school-educated (at best) teenager pretending to be a deep thinker who will change porno forever? [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 12:43AM JC Lee wrote: Shouldn't you offer this wise "shot-out has-been" advice to an anal-wart-infected, high-school-educated (at best) teenager pretending to be a deep thinker who will change porno forever? Click to expand I can't say I have any idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you could enlighten me. [Link]
Walter All-Star Member 1445 Posts 3/05	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 12:45AM There is no hall of fame. Click to expand I'll be a stinker and mention that there is a hall of fame, although very few of the members are famous enough to be known to the general population. In general, I agree with what Kimi said, although there are probably a few females who do a few scenes on a lark and then disappear. I'm not sure that Kimi's answer holds true for males. They can have fairly long careers in front of the camera if they can perform. Since most people are not focusing on the males, most people will not mind seeing the same guy in 100s of scenes as long as he does a good job and isn't annoying. Also, at least some of them are probably in it for the love of the game, at least at first, before they become jaded. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of them dreamed of being porn stars before they started performing. Personally, I don't tire of watching performers that I like. [Link]
Kimi Lixx Senior Member 2012 Posts 6/01	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 12:55AM Walter wrote: I'll be a stinker and mention that there is a hall of fame, although very few of the members are famous enough to be known to the general population. Click to expand If you mean XRCO - c'mon! Gimme a break!! I have more google hits than XRCO does! I'm a nobody!! Like, seriously, NO BODY (well, I have some body, but ...nevermind). Yeah, guys might be a different case than gals. I'm not a guy performer, so I wouldn't speak for them. Not that I'm speaking FOR the gal performers, just as one. Dependable guys who are in demand do see higher rates over their shooting lifetime, but I don't think I'd call it "big money" in terms of a career. Certainly not a big payoff for all the time they do spend toiling in the trenches. Even the ones who climb into the director's chair. Maybe the few who climb all the way up to production company owners. That's a mighty long climb. [Link]
Raoul Duke Member When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro 306 Posts 2/07	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 1:15AM JC Lee wrote: Kimi Lixx wrote: There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Click to expand Shouldn't you offer this wise "shot-out has-been" advice to an anal-wart-infected, high-school-educated (at best) teenager pretending to be a deep thinker who will change porno forever? Click to expand Wow. Two trolls on one thread. Busy evening. [Link]

Walter All-Star Member 1445 Posts 3/05	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 1:22AM Wow. Two trolls on one thread. Busy evening. Click to expand These trolls are just washed-up has-been trolls (with anal warts) that no one wants to see anymore. Edited by - Walter on 3/9/2007 1:22:47 AM [Link]
Walter All-Star Member 1445 Posts 3/05	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 1:27AM Kimi Lixx wrote: If you mean XRCO - c'mon! Gimme a break!! I have more google hits than XRCO does! I'm a nobody!! Like, seriously, NO BODY (well, I have some body, but ...nevermind). Click to expand I was actually thinking of AVN, so apparently there are at least two hall of fames. Panty Hoes 3 beckons me... [Link]
Anonymustard Member You have beautiful flesh. GIVE IT TO US! 9 Posts 1/07	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 2:06AM Kimi Lixx wrote: Well, you're real close, but then you went off on the shame nonsense. The reason why porn needs to pay, relatively speaking, big bucks up front is because there is NO PAYOFF down the line. There is no multi-million dollar deal for the cream of the crop star. There is no hall of fame. There is no pension. There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Don't throw Jenna or the other freaks of nature in my face. It's so rare for a porn performer to hit the timing/marketability/publicity jackpot that Jenna is the only one anyone's ever heard of. (there are others, but most folks haven't heard of them) Click to expand Great set of points made there. Remind me to look you up on IAFD. There are no $20,000,000 salary deals in porn: only high hourly wages for an incredibly small number of hours. And those wages don't add up, especially for the young ones who don't know what to do with the money. Furthermore, the fact that people depend on wages moots the idea that they do their jobs "for the love of it." You do your job, whether you like it or not, or you can't pay your rent. That includes those whose job description involves cameras, minimal costuming and lubricant, especially if there is a contract. There are those of us who are lucky enough to do something we enjoy for a living (that includes me), but we are still forced to do it. Edited by - Anonymustard on 3/9/2007 2:07:25 AM [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 8:43AM And just to throw a wobble in: We've had couples work on our projects at substaintially reduced scale, or even gratis. We had one couple sign their model releases and walk off the set without getting paid. I had to chase them down to give them their money, and their explanation was simply that they enjoyed their time with us so much they forgot about the money. Nearly all human beings have a desire to be involved in something they are proud of, and that will be a consideration that they size up along with whatever financial insentives are offered. On a weekly basis we get querries from couples who are interested in being in on of our production, mostly "civilians", but also from couples who are professional performers. Easily 75% of these querries are prefaced with something along the lines of "we don't know what/if you pay, but we really don't care about the money". Some even offer to pay their own way to NYC. I believe there is a tremendous hunger, in viewers, in those who work behind the camera, and even in some who enjoy being infront of the camera, to produce sexually explicit work that does not feels as explicitly transactional as we've come to expect from modern smut -- work that is made "for the love". I think this is a big part of the appeal of "Golden Age" porn. Naive as it now seems, the best golden age productions have a feeling of hope and optimism; that if only the performances and productions could be made credibly enough, they could change the way people feel about sex and the moving image. Then came herpes, then HIV, then Meese and the VCR. Today most porn is little more than acts of prostitution, sheilded from prosecution by the fact that they are recorded on digital video tape. [Link]
imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 10:14AM Kimi Lixx wrote: JC Lee wrote: Shouldn't you offer this wise "shot-out has-been" advice to an anal-wart-infected, high-school-educated (at best) teenager pretending to be a deep thinker who will change porno forever? Click to expand I can't say I have any idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you could enlighten me. Click to expand he means sasha grey [Link]
imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 10:15AM who is hot and sexy [Link]
imak Adult Film Legend 3345 Posts 2/04	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 10:26AM I did it because I needed constant validation and a job that would allow me to spend 80% of my time in my house. I am way to insane to hold a real job, and to unstable be around people every day. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 1:40PM JC Lee wrote: Kimi Lixx wrote: There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Click to expand Shouldn't you offer this wise "shot-out has-been" advice to an anal-wart-infected, high-school-educated (at best) teenager pretending to be a deep thinker who will change porno forever? Click to expand Gee...I wonder who this is? [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 1:54PM Jonsy wrote: TonyC wrote: Porn performers are already paid like theater and film/tv actors, which is to say that in either market producers pay the least amount of money possible that will ensure a reasonably reliable result. Click to expand That's trivially true in a market economy -- what you've said holds equally for hitmen, drug dealers, plumbers, school teachers, firemen, and so on. My question, rather, is why does it take so much more money (and money up front, as it were) to obtain a 'reliable' supply in some of these vocations and not others. In particular, for the average porn actress to do what she does, rather than for other actresses? Or are the economic disparities merely contingent truths, happy accidents as far as porn actresses are concerned, and that they would in fact do it for far less, much like film/tv/theatre actors? This would be acting, as I say, for the love of porn. Click to expand Well, you know....I figure a person would have to be, at the very least, not completely repulsed by the idea of doing porn for a living to even consider it. I figure there has to be some girls there who love doing it when everything goes right and she's working with people she enjoys working with. Ya know...I've had jobs that I fucking hated. But even so, when I was working with people I enjoyed being around and things weren't going dreadfully badly, I could still actually have a halfway decent day. I think, most likely, there are a lot of people in the industry (male talent, directors, etc) who wouldn't be the first choices of the women as far as people they'd like to work with. I think for one thing, they set their prices higher to avoid being in the really low budget stuff. Even as a diehard porn fan, I feel bad sometimes for the girls who end up in some of the really low end porn. But also, they know they're going to end up working with people who they may not exactly like. Hell, they might even despise them. At least if the pay is good, they can say it's worth it to work with someone they hate. Imagine, if there's someone you work with who you just can't stand. Now imagine that you actually have to make oral contact with them and swallow their fluids in order to get paid. Wouldn't you want to make sure at least the pay is good? Honestly...even if a girl loves sex and loves doing it on camera, how many girls are going to be thrilled about working with Max Hardcore or a guy they aren't even physically attracted to? I have seen women thoroughly enjoying themselves in porn movies so I know it happens. It probably doesn't happen as often as it should but it does happen. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 2:08PM Walter wrote: Wow. Two trolls on one thread. Busy evening. Click to expand These trolls are just washed-up has-been trolls (with anal warts) that no one wants to see anymore. Click to expand I don't doubt it but I do wonder....who decides that nobody wants to see them anymore? And why? Just because a woman is 26 years old doesn't mean I wouldn't watch her. In fact, with the MILF thing, there should be increased opportunities for older women now. I just don't think they necessarily have to put them out to pasture once they're past 23. Sure...some people won't watch them but so what? Fuck them. Those are the pickiest porn customers in existence. Who needs customers who demand that the girls not be a day over 20? [Link]

Learned Hand Member 175 Posts 2/06	Posted - Mar 9 2007 : 6:17PM Kimi Lixx wrote: Well, you're real close, but then you went off on the shame nonsense. The reason why porn needs to pay, relatively speaking, big bucks up front is because there is NO PAYOFF down the line. There is no multi-million dollar deal for the cream of the crop star. There is no hall of fame. There is no pension. There is dwindling attention/paying work for aging performers who have already done everything they're willing to do. Even if that "aging" is from 18 to 22. You don't get more for being the great legendary so-and-so, you get less and less for being that shot-out-has-been. Click to expand Well, obviously the shame does not apply to everyone. I mean, the major impact of the embarrassment factor is that it raises salaries for everyone. What I mean by that is that if most people aren't willing to be in porn because of societal stigma (even if there is a small number of people who don't care about that stigma), then the money offered will rise until the pool of actresses gets large enough. I do think you have excellent points about the short nature of the porn career and the lack of the long term payout. That lack of payout was part of the point I was originally trying to make. Don't throw Jenna or the other freaks of nature in my face. It's so rare for a porn performer to hit the timing/marketability/publicity jackpot that Jenna is the only one anyone's ever heard of. (there are others, but most folks haven't heard of them) Click to expand Well, sure. That's why I chose Jenna. Really, Julia is as much of a "freak of nature" as Jenna is. Just as very few porn actresses can become Jenna, very few straight actresses can become Julia. There are just a ton more straight actresses than porn actresses so we hear of more super stars, but I imagine the proportion is fairly similar. My objective in bringing up the Jenna/Julia comparison was to point out that you can hit the huge jackpot in porn and become Jenna Jameson, but the fame and fortune that you get by being Jenna can't come close to comparing to the fame and fortune you get by being Julia. It was just another way of illustrating how the payoff is smaller in general for porn actresses than for straight actresses. I was in no way trying to make porn actresses feel like they have not lived up to their potential because they have not made it like Jenna. [Link]