I like it much better when the guy stays rock hard all the time, and doesn't have to take his cock out and jerk it to make it hard so that he can stick it back in again.

I don't care if the wood is natural or not.

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Back to the original topic, another reason we tend to see more and more of something, like rapid thrusting by male talent, is that if one performer is successful doing something, others adopt it hoping for success.

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When I'm pounding away like that, what gets me off is my partner coming over and over, not from the sensations I get myself. Turning a woman into a quivering puddle of incoherently babbling / murmuring / moaning .. that's fun! But as for what feels best, what we see in porn is rather what looks best instead.

The jackhammer approach suggests "oh my God I'm so turned on I can't help fucking the shit out this woman as hard and fast as I can until we all spontaneously combust or collapse trying". It's cute.

But for me, it's generally as humorous to watch as the old Keystone Kops stuff. I agree it's not necessarily sexy or hot. Sometimes. But I giggle at it and wonder to myself if some of the guys fucking on camera really know how to fuck. I really do hope some of them are better lovers in their private lives than they are on camera. But then again, it gives a certain feeling of satisfaction knowing they might not be - where else but porn can you get that? When I watch football, I'm under no illusion that I'm more capable than anyone that's actually on the field, but when I watch porn - well, now I'm just boasting again.

Fuck 'em fast! Let's see smoke come outta those gashes! Or blood!

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Just watched another DP, this one featuring Vanessa Monet. Christ, how could she have enjoyed a second of that abuse? Back to my JAVs, I don't care about the censoring.

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Or, are you, like most people, exhausted by the end of the day, glad it's over, dread tomorrow and live for your days off?

Just a thought.

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I like to watch fairly hardcore sex. But I don't get off on frantic fucking. For me it breaks the illusion that I could (however low the probability) be doing the same. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I can't fuck like that. Ordinary wild hardcore sex - I don't fuck like that, and probably never will, but I know that if the planets aligned right I'd be physically capable. But this frantic jackrabbit stuff, I sincerely doubt I could do it for more than a minute. I realise as I type that there is undoubtedly no future for me and threesomebody unless I get some very expensive hydraulics installed in my hips and lower back.

But, yes there's a market. I agree with what Kimi says about brussels sprouts but the fact is that there is plenty of porn without jackrabbit fucking - there is choice, and the consumer is not being offered one thing only. If there is a trend towards it, it's partly because enough people like it that it gets repeated and others imitate. It doesn't take much effort to look up some reviews through ADT and find a no-jackrabbits movie.

To me, it seems very much like any other product. An uneducated consumer takes whatever they're offered first, or whatever is advertised to best ping the relevant brain cells (or get their dick hard), or whatever is cheapest (4-hr compilation, anyone?). The educated consumer doesn't trust the producer to tell them what they'll like, and doesn't buy according to the picture on the boxcover, or the bright printing, or how many scenes they're getting for their dollars.

Fergus

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Would you really want to be fucked by a guy who approaches sex with you as work, and are you saying that what we see in porn would satisfy your needs. Do you regularly employ porno positions.
[/quote]Would I really want to be fucked by a guy who approaches sex with me as work? What else would I expect on the job? I approach sex with him as work, because it IS work. It may or may not end up being an enjoyable job, but my enjoyment is beside the point, the point being to do the job, hopefully, to the best of my ability. I want nothing more from a co-performer. If it were my personal sex life it might, or might not, be different. I would like my personal partners to consider putting effort into our sex life, which some might consider work. Ever heard of WORKING on a relationship?
Would what most of us typically see in porn videos satisfy my needs? No, there is almost never any decent cunnilingus in adult videos, and that's what gets me off.
Do I ever employ porno positions? In my personal life, it's not generally necessary to see the penetration, so generally, no. Sometimes it happens, for a variety of reasons, but I don't consider it porno positioning, it's just whatever is working at that moment for me and my partner.

And a short note to those who keep saying, "there must be a demand for it or it wouldn't keep selling". I don't agree. If you were hungry and the only thing for sale at the grocery stores and restaurants was brussel sprouts, you'd buy brussel sprouts to eat even if you disliked them. Many consumers purchase products they are not happy with because better alternatives are not available.
Most porn being made right now is being made as fast and as cheap as possible. It's become formulaic in order to be produced that way. Time and effort creating the product and time and effort creating better performers are just too expensive for most producers. No matter how much the consumers would like something besides brussel sprouts, if they aren't offered anything else, they're going to choose not to go hungry.
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Thank you Kimi I can see that you understand the business form the inside out. I appreciate your post, they are always enlightening and thanks for your frank answers, generally I get the impression that people in the Biz who post here are saying what they think we want to hear. You strike me as a grown women who isn't afraid to "speak truth to power" You are a breath a fresh air.

I am not speaking about performer becoming better at what they do. may the very thought die a quick death. I couldn't bear to see porn become more mechanical and rigid. my point is that porn has left the realm of reality and is off on a tangent all its own. It bears very little resemblance to the way people actually have sex, as your above statement. will attest. I can't believe the performer are ever enjoying themselves, what with being open to the camera, and odd uncomfortable position lights sets lit like an operating room. etc, etc.. Who was it decided that it is necessary to show the penetration at all times. Market forces didn't we the market were not given a choice. The sex act reduced to gyrating dicks and assholes. Worst the women in porn refuse to be intimate with their sex partners, and the men don't know how to fuck, if they never enjoy themselves than the act portrayed is merely posing and that could be captured with a Polaroid. That's what today's porn is a series of stills. Porn sex isn't the manner in which ANYONE has sex why is it presented in every movie. It is all that is offered so that s's what we buy.

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You'll be a believer.

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Porn's most outrageous Outtakes

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You guys are so sweet, you don't want to fuck up my sixteen years of monogamous bliss.

I don't need to see outtakes to know how unsexy making porn really is. Chico Wang destroyed any illusions I had left about that.

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Edited by - Pagoda on 2/7/2007 6:33:37 AM

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Fergus

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I'm gonna disagree with those who say there are no alternatives though. Now I will say that alternatives can be extremely tough to locate sometimes, but they are usually out there somewhere. I'll also say that male talent is sometimes omitted from boxcovers and even at the beginning of some titles, thus making some hard to avoid or find. Now if certain companies do things like that, their movies can be easily avoided.

I've learned to except that most films with at least 5 sex scenes in them, will probably have only 2-3 that I enjoy at the most. Those films usually consist of 2-3 women that I really like or at least have an interest in, have a director whose work I generally like, and have male talent that I at least find exceptable or enjoy watching. Using those criteria's, I can honesty say that I am rarely disappointed in anything I buy or rent. I'm usually only disappointed when I go outside of it.

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My post under the label "The Treatment Team" hasn't gotten a single reply yet, so I'm going to bump it up, by putting in another post. I hope it might become a jump-start, to get people thinking, and I'd love to see any of you folks over there. Especially Kimi (in complete seriousness, Kimi, I honestly don't know whether I should see any of your videos; you've got my imagination going about you in a real nice direction, and I'd love to just let it keep going that way for a while).

To me, the idea below seems so clear and easy yet flexible and useful, that I cannot figure out why no one has done it.

The starting point is simple. A guy graduates from college, and moves to a big city. Or, he gets transferred by his employer, or whatever. So, now he's got to meet some new ladies, and start dating. Once he gets to that new big city (say, LA, SF, San Diego, Seattle, Chicago, Dallas, NYC, DC, Atlanta, Miami, etc.), where does he go, what kinds of lines does he use to start conversations, and who does he meet?

The title of the series? "Learning to Love [insert name of city]". For each city, weave in landmarks, popular attractions, the hottest bars and dance clubs, etc.

And, give the guy a real dilemma, to drive the plot. The big problem: out of four different ladies he meets -- all of whom are beautiful, sexy, intelligent, and absolutely delighted to have met this guy -- which one does he choose? And why?

Each series in any city could stretch out into 3 or 4 episodes. And, anyone who watches adult videos, and who already lives in that city, would be a ready-made customer. So would anyone else who's planning to visit that city, or even just thinking about it and trying to decide where to go on vacation.

See how easy, and yet logical and flexible, it can be? And yet, apparently, nobody's done it.

Okay, here's my copyright notice. Copyright (c) 2007 by Woody Dooit. And I want a writer's credit (presumably one of several), if it ever gets done.

In complete seriousness, where would any of you folks want to take that kind of setup? Instead of griping about what somebody else is doing, if we've really got some industry insiders here, why don't we start thinking about what we could do, if we try?

Anyone is welcome to keep this thread going, as long as they care to. But I've heard enough complaining to recognize that it's real, realistic, and informed, and the question becomes: "Okay, so now what?" If you think you might be interested in actually helping create a successful series, send me a PM, or post something on "The Treatment Team" thread.

By the way ... if something like this actually gets going in "the adult industry", it might become a crossover, into cable and maybe even broadcast TV. It could be a multi-part progression, showing a really nice love story with attractive and intelligent people, with (1) the G-rated stuff on a major network, (2) the R-rated stuff on HBO or Showtime, (3) the X-rated stuff on DVD's and digital-only cable, and (4) let's not forget, the musical parts on VH1 or MTV.

Edited by - woody d on 2/9/2007 12:32:45 AM

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If you decide to take a Kimi-leap, I'd suggest Phantom Love, it's one of my favorites.

Very few places permit filming pornography. Even in those places where it is not outright illegal, it might as well be for all the obstacles in the way. This isn't the 70s, not many pornographers are interested in breaking the law when there is a perfectly acceptable, not to mention convenient, alternative available.

Then there is cost. Your production crew and cast will have to travel to your destination. No, you can't just fly a cameraman and a few lights into Chicago, put an ad in the paper for talent, and shoot a movie the next day. Your idea seems to require unknown talent, but if it doesn't...

Popular talent isn't likely to want to take days/weeks out of a likely-to-be-full shooting schedule in LA to make your one video, or two or three if it's a series, in random-city-of-choice. I wouldn't give up back to back days of shooting (one or two paying scene(s) every day) for a limited number of scenes in the same time frame.

Less popular talent might fit your bill for being reasonably unknown, and being willing to give up time in LA for a sure thing. Most production companies aren't going to want to lay out those sorts of costs for less popular talent to make an unproven type of video, though.

It's difficult to think outside the box when the box is very small. American made porn is in a pretty small box right now.

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