Free Help for Porn Directors -Iron, Jules, note

Author	Post
mango Member 80 Posts 12/02	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 6:38AM ..and others. Free advice if you don't mind. If you just take your vidcam and shove it close up to a face you are going to get barrel distortion (the fun house mirror look) and make the model look ugly. Why is this so hard for you guys to learn? It seems to be the defining look for American Gonzo. Usually done at the cumshot. A close-up with a wide angle, expands whatever is closest to the center of the lens, usually the forehead and nose, while shrinking that which is a little bit away, like the eyes, chin and neck. The result is a bubble forehead, protruding nose and pointed tiny mouth. It is exactly the same look you get when standing in front of a curved mirror at the circus for the same optical reason. It is the curve of the lens itself that does this. Think about it. If you shoot from below then it is the chin which balloons outward and the top of the head which gets pointy. Just take a look at a frame from one of your shoots and you will see what I mean. People do not look like that, and it looks really bad, and you tend to do it at the worst moment. You can make a the most attractive person look like the wicked witch of the north by shooting that way. To complete the vampire look just add a flashlight pointing upward from the floor at her. The solution is so easy. To get a high rez, full frame headshot, Mr. DeMille, just stand back a few feet and zoom in with the telephoto lens. The opposite of what your instinct is to do for the situation. To get close, zoom in with the lens rather than shove in with the camera. It is just that simple. That will change the facial perspective to normal and the result will be a more flattering portrait, without losing the close-up or rez. This is because the relative angle of curvature of the lens to subject is smaller from a greater distance. No movie on screen, no TV commercial, no magazine photo ever, ever shoots a person with a wide angle short lens from inches away. So why is this the rule for porn? Check it out. You do not need the scenery or expense of PRIVATE to make your models look great, just a little care. Vidcams have made it easy for anyone to shoot a flick, but they have drawbacks that does not excuse someone from being lazy and cutting out on photography 101. Just my 2 cents. Thanks. Edited by - mango on Dec 18 2004 [Link]
mango Member 80 Posts 12/02	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 7:34AM Edited by - mango on 12/18/2004 7:49:05 AM [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 10:32AM Dear Mango, You are laboring under the misapprehension that modern gonzo pornography strives to celebrate either feminine beauty or sexuality. -T.C. [Link]
DP Jones Member 511 Posts 10/03	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 10:38AM Mango.........MANGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey Mango,would you mind spending a day over at Ed Power's house running his camera? PLEASE?????????? [Link]
HeyNow Oblivious Gold Star Hey! 5965 Posts 1/03	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 12:53PM Mango: <<<<[[[[ [Link]

mango Member 80 Posts 12/02	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 1:15PM Wow Ed Powers. That pasty ugly geek. Anyone who would sell him videotape should be sent to Fallujah. [Link]
Brandon Iron BrandonIron.com 3832 Posts 3/02	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 10:16PM Thank you for the advice and feedback. [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 18 2004 : 11:56PM That is some solid advice for sure. Janay - BKProductions [Link]
aiden Belladonna Entertainment Lost in Hollywood 246 Posts 12/02	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 1:41AM I think the barrel distortion on the face look is SEXY! and that's why they all do it! the end. [Link]
scipio Senior Member 1901 Posts 2/00	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 7:21AM haha great post mango. It's funny because it's true! +1 cheers, scipio [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 1:06PM Also: While stepping back and zooming in might yield a more flattering perspective, the increased focal length makes achieving critical focus more difficult and increases the effect of camera shake. Shooting with a wide-angle lens is far more forgiving of camera shake and critical focus. -T.C. [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 2:04PM TonyC wrote: Also: While stepping back and zooming in might yield a more flattering perspective, the increased focal length makes achieving critical focus more difficult and increases the effect of camera shake. Shooting with a wide-angle lens is far more forgiving of camera shake and critical focus. -T.C. Click to expand LMAO!!! I laugh at the last part about the zoom. We get yelled at all the time. So much so that the zoom on most of the vidcams here are superglued because of that. Plus it's easier to lose the subject of the shot when you're zoomed in. And no one ever zooms nicely. Zooms on most cameras are too sensitive. Little known hollywood fact. In hollywood movies they NEVER use the zoom. They dolly the camera up to the subject they want to shoot. Janay - BKProductions [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 2:16PM LMAO!!! I laugh at the last part about the zoom. We get yelled at all the time. So much so that the zoom on most of the vidcams here are superglued because of that. Plus it's easier to lose the subject of the shot when you're zoomed in. And no one ever zooms nicely. Zooms on most cameras are too sensitive. Little known hollywood fact. In hollywood movies they NEVER use the zoom. They dolly the camera up to the subject they want to shoot. Janay - BKProductions Click to expand Zooms on "prosumer" cameras like the PDX10, XL1, etc. aren't too sensitive, they're too shitty. The optical characteristics are crap, and the controls are crap. That's why zoom moves on prosumer cameras look like crap. If you get a real zoom lens and put it on a real camera, you can do beautiful zoom effects (and you'll find plenty of them in Hollywood movies.) BTW, the best way to make sure that the footage from a shitty video camera looks like shitty video camera footage is to shoot with a wide-angle lens. This simply is something that video does very, very poorly; whether the subject is pussy or poultry. We never, never, ever shoot anything wider than 2:1 mag. with a video camera; whether it's a PD100 or Sony Digibeta 900. -T.C. [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 4:14PM TonyC wrote: Zooms on "prosumer" cameras like the PDX10, XL1, etc. aren't too sensitive, they're too shitty. The optical characteristics are crap, and the controls are crap. That's why zoom moves on prosumer cameras look like crap. If you get a real zoom lens and put it on a real camera, you can do beautiful zoom effects (and you'll find plenty of them in Hollywood movies.) BTW, the best way to make sure that the footage from a shitty video camera looks like shitty video camera footage is to shoot with a wide-angle lens. This simply is something that video does very, very poorly; whether the subject is pussy or poultry. We never, never, ever shoot anything wider than 2:1 mag. with a video camera; whether it's a PD100 or Sony Digibeta 900. -T.C. Click to expand Hmmmm we like the XL1. We like it because we can change lenses. But ours usually dressed up with manual lenses, follow focus, Matt box and body brace. What's your opinion on the Viper? I like it but just too bulky sometimes for what we shoot. LOL Janay - BKProductions [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 4:49PM BKP-Janay wrote: Hmmmm we like the XL1. We like it because we can change lenses. But ours usually dressed up with manual lenses, follow focus, Matt box and body brace. What's your opinion on the Viper? I like it but just too bulky sometimes for what we shoot. LOL Click to expand You can put all the cine-style accessories you want on a video camera, none of them will change the camera's imaging qualities. As to the Viper, between the fact that the camera body alone rents for $1000/day (and a basic package about double that) and the fact that the Viper still can't deliver the latitude, resolution or tonal sublty of Super16, it seems like a tool of relatively limit application. I think you can do better work, for less money, under a wider variety of circumstances with an Aanton prod or similar. As far as bulk, stripped down for handheld work, it's no bulkier (though somewhat heavier) than your dressed up XL1. -T.C. [Link]

Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 5:09PM TC wrote As far as bulk, stripped down for handheld work, it's no bulkier (though somewhat heavier) than your dressed up XL1. Click to expand Sigh. Camera porn...mmmm, I love it. [Link]
aiden Belladonna Entertainment Lost in Hollywood 246 Posts 12/02	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 6:11PM BKP-Janay wrote: Little known hollywood fact. In hollywood movies they NEVER use the zoom. They dolly the camera up to the subject they want to shoot. Janay Click to expand That is not true. Hollywood uses ZOOM, but they already have their shots setup when they use and they know WHERE the actors are going to be and they have stoppers to just pull the zoom to where it should be. Everything is very controlled in hollywood movies, porn is the opposite, everything (at least in gonzo) is just happening at the moment and the director/cameraman has to follow the action as best he can, thus zoom wouldn't work well, if at all. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 6:30PM aiden wrote: Everything is very controlled in hollywood movies, porn is the opposite, everything (at least in gonzo) is just happening at the moment Click to expand This begs the question: Why are Hollywood movies generally successful at conveying a sense of spontineity, while porn movies are typically dull and predictable? -T.C. [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 8:52PM Repetitive actions have an inherent predictability, occasionally they're hypnotic in a good way, mostly they send me to sleep. Perhaps Hollywood movies rely on more than the pistoning of flesh to engage a sense of spontaneity? [Link]
Renee Member 765 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 10:25PM Why the spontaneity in Hollywood films? Because they have performers who can act, follow a script, and pay attention to the directions from the director - all at the same time. There will also be multiple takes until the director is satisfied he/she has gotten everything down to their satisfaction. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 10:47PM Renee wrote: Why the spontaneity in Hollywood films? Because they have performers who can act, follow a script, and pay attention to the directions from the director - all at the same time. There will also be multiple takes until the director is satisfied he/she has gotten everything down to their satisfaction. Click to expand Renee, are you suggesting that if porn directors were given Hollywood-caliber actors and the time to do multiple takes, porn work would suddenly acquire a Hollywood level of spontineity and panache? -T.C. [Link]
DP Jones Member 511 Posts 10/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 10:59PM I think Chloe Sevigny is available. [Link]
Renee Member 765 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 19 2004 : 11:19PM Tony C wrote: Renee, are you suggesting that if porn directors were given Hollywood-caliber actors and the time to do multiple takes, porn work would suddenly acquire a Hollywood level of spontineity and panache? Click to expand No, I still think the spontaneity would be sorely lacking. First off, Hollywood (or New York) actors know how to recite dialogue without sounding wooden, or like they have memorized lines; they can make it sound as if what they are saying just came into their minds. Secondly, lets just say that Hollywood (or New York) directors have rather different skill sets than the typical porn director (many of whom are/were porn performers). I've watched gonzo/vignette type movies where the performers either sound like high school kids in a mundane play, or they are laughing through their lines, or tripping over the words. What's the point - just skip it all and get to the sex. But even that's routine. You can close your eyes and practically recite exactly what's going to happen in the majority of gonzo scenes out there: tease, BJ, vag sex, PTM, anal sex, ATM, anal sex, ATM, anal sex, ATM, anal sex, guy jerks off while girl kneels like a dog waiting for a treat. If there are two or more guys in a scene, replace 'vag sex' and 'anal sex' with 'DP' and 'DAP'. Voila - you got yourself a porn scene! [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 12:47AM Maybe the very artifice of "character" has spontaneity designed into it -- the scriptwriter writes an expected response from the actor to an interaction and just sometimes it works, especially when the "character" is not too far from the actors own style. Nina Hartley manages it. Recently I watched the final scene of Fine Bi Me from Adam and Eve.Tina Tyler asks Rod Barry, who's joining her for a threesome, does he know Buck Jordan, the other man reclining naked on the bed, he says no, she says with a bit of a giggle, don't worry you soon will and introduces them. We're let off the hook from having to believe that the scene is spontaneous and ironically just a few words of context and a sense of spontaneity was actually created and captured. It seems more honest and more fun to acknowledge what's going on in a scene than playing bad make believe. For the purpose of the film, Tina takes on a character or a role, that of the initiator, she orchestrates the scene, she plays the role well. We don't have to believe that three people magically find their way onto a bed and everything just happens…I can stop being doubting Thomasina and enjoy the scene. I'm grateful for that. Maybe spontaneous is more likely to occur when people are behaving with some kind of authenticity? Whether you need to be in Hollywood to do that is anyone's guess. Edited by - Loraine on 12/20/2004 12:49:56 AM [Link]
Ghost Pro Member Creampies, Blowjobs and Asians..... Oh My! 236 Posts 9/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 1:11AM Everybody has a favorite thing that they like about porn. I like P.O.V. and creampies. That's why we shoot creampies and P.O.V. I like face, pussy, asshole, face, face, pussy, asshole, pussy and asshole, face, pussy full of cum, face, pussy, face. There is something very intimate about close ups. The ass rounder and the pussy is right in your face. The mouth and lips are more sexual. I agree it is not always warranted, but it creates the effect we are looking for. We want to convey the feeling that the fan is the one banging the girl and blowin' his load deep inside. Anyone who's ever held a camera while having sex knows it is impossible to stretch your arm far enough out to have an adequate distance to zoom. Hell, it's hard enough trying to have the camera capture all of the erotic details that your eyes seeing during the scene. So we'll leave the zooming to Vivid, Wicked and JKP. Thank god for the wide angle len. ghostpro.com [Link]

dac David Aaron Clark Just another WKW wannabe 574 Posts 2/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 3:04AM Actually when I'm shooting a scene I tend to go back and forth between getting up close for all the forced angles that define gonzo but then i'll hang back across the room and indeed use my zoom to follow movements and pan across the subjects. See: AZN SUPER IDOLS vol. 2 from Video Team, the Marcus/Asia scene, for a strong example of how putting some variety in your method can bring out the character of a scene much better than spending the whole time crouched ten inches away from the point of penetration. ghostpro wrote: Anyone who's ever held a camera while having sex knows it is impossible to stretch your arm far enough out to have an adequate distance to zoom. Hell, it's hard enough trying to have the camera capture all of the erotic details that your eyes seeing during the scene. So we'll leave the zooming to Vivid, Wicked and JKP. Thank god for the wide angle len. ghostpro.com Click to expand [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 4:03AM It's sex acts that are being shot. I mean outside of time and location how spontaneous are sex acts? Kiss, suck, fuck in a few positions, cum. It's almost always the same. Also if we did as many takes of a scene as Hollywood does we'd be shooting 9 months just to get one product out there. But what happens DURING the sex act is spontaneous. Cock falling out of her ass. Odd noises ala air being pushed out of the vagina. =o) These are all things we leave in our videos if they happen because we feel that it adds to the realism of the sex. Which is why when we have shot with "Pros" they say they have so much fun. The scene goes by fairly quick, and it's almost like they forget that theyre doing a JOB. But what must be kept in mind is that EACH situation has to be done differently based upon what people are trying to get for an end result. And Hollywood movies are often VERY predictable. But we allow for that because we are busy watching all the FX and other stuff going on. Sex is well SEX! Not too many FX you can add to that. =) Unless you add machine gun jubblies. LOL Janay - BKProductions [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 8:05AM Loraine wrote: Maybe spontaneous is more likely to occur when people are behaving with some kind of authenticity? Click to expand It's my belief that the above is precisely why BTS footage is so popular with porn fans. It is virtually the only characterizing/humanizing elements in porn. -T.C. [Link]
RonK Big Double Everything Fan Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 2:15PM Several things that make Gonzo seem poorly shot. 1. Many cameramen have bad technique -- too much close-ups or too distant or poor lighting. 2. Some cameramen have a lackadaisical attitude of shooting the scene with the expectation that mistakes will be corrected in the post production. 3. The editors do not have soul and chop the scene into meaningless and unfulfilling messes. Partly, the editors try to overcorrect the mistakes of the cameramen. Suggestions for better Gonzo. 1. Use better cameras. Some scenes use inferior consumer cameras and it shows. 2. Make sure the lighting is good. This is the most important part. Over exposure or under exposure ruins the scene. 3. Have some general plan so the talents and cameraman can follow the action. 4. Shoot the whole scene without any intention to edit at all. The camera must be held as steady as a rock during zooms, and manual focus should be used when appropriate. That way the editing will be minimal and unobtrusive as oppose to correcting for mistakes made by poor shooting. 5. Capture the scene from various angles with pans to the face and then the action. The trick is to do everything right so the quality is good. Good action and attractive talent, together with good technique will result in quality porn. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 2:39PM RonK wrote: The trick is to do everything right so the quality is good. Click to expand Finally! The magic formula I've been searching for all these long years! -T.C. [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 3:27PM Arm chair directors eh? LOL Janay - BKProductions [Link]
Lee O Forearm Trainer mmmmmmm........ after-birth 1193 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 3:40PM aiden wrote: Everything is very controlled in hollywood movies, porn is the opposite, everything (at least in gonzo) is just happening at the moment and the director/cameraman has to follow the action as best he can, thus zoom wouldn't work well, if at all. Click to expand Really ? The gonzo I've seen hasn't been spontaneous in the slightest , it's just one predetermined sex act followed by another . In fact there's far less movement than in most Hollywood productions - pretty difficult to move far when you're joined at the hip . To not plan first where best to site the camera or discus the upcoming scene with the actors is a little odd . People might almost think the director's more concerned with his drinking time than the action he's about to shoot . That couldn't be right , could it . Forget spontaneity , give me some life in the scene . There's very little spontaneity (ad libbing)in Hollywood movies but they do a better job of bringing thing to life . What's life ? What the fuck am I on about ? A spark between the performers . The actors getting into their roles (whatever they might be) and believing in their characters/situation . If the girl can't do dialogue don't give her any , a look can speak volumes . Oh and most important , tell your mates to fuck off down the pub while you shoot so there are less people standing around doing little to nothing just off camera . Might just make the performers less self conscious and give you better footage into the bargain . Just a thought . Lee takes a long breathy sigh . Thanks for letting me put the world to rights . I feel much better ! [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 3:53PM Adult DVD Talk home to the finest arm chair directors, or should that be backseat directors? ;) Thanks for the new tagline, Janay. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 4:25PM Steph wrote: Adult DVD Talk home to the finest arm chair directors, or should that be backseat directors? ;) Click to expand Backdoor directors. -T.C. [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 4:40PM Steph wrote: Adult DVD Talk home to the finest arm chair directors, or should that be backseat directors? ;) Thanks for the new tagline, Janay. Click to expand LOL. You are most welcome Steph. Yeah Arm Chair directors... Bottom line it comes down to if you think you can do it better ... Like in Hollywood movies, Monday night football, and life. It's so easy to see what's wrong or all the shouldas. Its a different story when you're on the field, in the middle of the game. Janay - BKProductions [Link]

RonK Big Double Everything Fan Poor Turkey running for her life with Christmas Hat 3713 Posts 9/01	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 4:42PM I will make a great backdoor director. All the talents and camerament better do exactly as I say or else they take it big in the backdoor . [Link]
BKP-Janay Black Kat Productions 137 Posts 11/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 4:48PM Some of them might actually like it. So that may not work. LOL Janay - BKProductions [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 5:21PM Sometimes the backseat director suggests the scenic route and everyone has more fun [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 5:22PM Loraine wrote: Sometimes the backseat director suggests the scenic route and everyone has more fun Click to expand Sometimes the backdoor director tells you to take the Hersey Highway – and everyone has more fun. -T.C. [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 6:15PM Tony, yes, well it can take longer to get there but it's often more beautiful...is that stretching the analogy or mishandling the metaphor, possibly both. BKP-Janay wrote Like in Hollywood movies, Monday night football, and life. It's so easy to see what's wrong or all the shouldas. Click to expand Actually it's not that easy, it takes careful study, a critical eye and detailed dissection...you don't get your degree in porn by agreeing with every text. [Link]
TonyC Comstock Films 2523 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 6:19PM Loraine wrote: Tony, yes, well it can take longer to get there but it's often more beautiful...is that stretching the analogy Click to expand Stretching the analogy? I was thinking more along the lines of stretching you anally. -T.C, [Link]
Loraine Senior Member 1559 Posts 3/04	Posted - Dec 20 2004 : 6:38PM I imagine that that would be considered extra curricular activity on the porn degree syllabus. Prepare for some metaphor mishandling. [Link]
licker Senior Member Heretic, Iconoclast, Skeptic 1141 Posts 8/03	Posted - Dec 21 2004 : 1:29AM TonyC wrote: Loraine wrote: Maybe spontaneous is more likely to occur when people are behaving with some kind of authenticity? Click to expand It's my belief that the above is precisely why BTS footage is so popular with porn fans. It is virtually the only characterizing/humanizing elements in porn. Click to expand Loraine and Tony, I think you are definitely on to something with these remarks. That is exactly why I like BTS, and why it is usually the first thing I watch on a new disc. Candid shots of the performers meeting and interacting with each other give me a sense of realism, the thought that "these are real people who really do enjoy what they are doing." This allows me to have a much greater feeling of personal involvement in the scene. [Link]
Percy Walker Member 108 Posts 9/03	Posted - Dec 21 2004 : 2:18AM I complain way too much here about crappy porn. I think Mr. mango has a good point but it really requires two cameras and you don't get that often enough. I have to say though, that there have been plenty of times I have seen the cam. op. pulling back from tight to wide in one smooth, steady motion. Those cameras get heavy after 5 minutes and maintaining that kind of control is pretty great. Especially with 2-4 people jerking like crazy all around your arm. Another thing, most of the lighting I see is pretty damn good, considering the circumstances. What I do hate is how most ops. (or maybe it is the camera) frame about 10% too low. So the actor's heads are cut off and you get more butt and thigh than you need. Makes you want an underscan button to be able to see the whole shot. [Link]