I must stay that the latest hardcore gangbang update is exceptional. Ashlee Graham's rough performance was further augmented by Ramon's impressive and domineering presence in the scene. I like the variation in updates as well. Sometimes you get a tamer gang fuck scene and then we are rewarded with that classic bound gangbangs feel. The marathon of rapid sex positions kept the scene going in an action packed pace. Bravo Kink!
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 1:10AM
^As sad as it is that she left, it's why she left that should have HGB subscribers worried. Peter Ackworth confirmed in an XBIZ interview that Kink will be moving away from "more extreme material" with their upcoming Fantasy Gangbangs site. So hellbent is he on bringing Kink into the vanilla mainstream that he has decided to re-edit or remove various scenes from Public Disgrace and Bound Gangbangs. Personally, I hope he fails miserably. That's not a very kind thing to say, especially since I know people who work there, but I deeply hate what Ackworth is doing with the company. Hopefully Princess Donna will start up something herself and move on to ever greater heights of success while Kink collapses under the weight of Peter Ackworth's ego.
^Calling gangbangs "vanilla" is kinda silly if you ask me and probably is a huge indicator why I have never liked the bound/hardcore gangbang series. I know it was consensual and I know that a lot of you liked them but I have not been able to watch any of their scenes because I don't like this mysogonistic type of porn... I hate to see the girls tied up, I don't want to see rape play, I don't like girls spat on or hit so much they are more red than white and I particularly dislike it when the girls are (acting like they are) afraid, it is a huge turn off for me. I like gangbangs where the girls are an active element that enjoy it. Now having said all that I understand there is a market for that stuff but to me them melllowing a bit and perhaps making scenes I might enjoy is good news.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 12:04PM
^^How do you know that the girls gangbanged on Kink (who were very much active elements in the scenes btw) did not enjoy it? Princess Donna directed most of "this mysogonistic type of porn." Is she a misogynist? She herself was gangbanged more than once, first on Bound Gangbangs then of Hardcore Gangbangs. Did she too not enjoy herself? I think it's fine to not like rough porn, but it irritates me to no end when viewers begin to project their dislike of those scenes onto the performers themselves. "I do not like how she was treated in that scene, therefore she did not enjoy filming that scene." Just because I might feel bored watching a slow gangbang that does not mean that I will assume that the performer in the scene was similarly bored while filming it. I have seen plenty of b/g scenes and even g/g scenes (I wonder if those were misogynistic too?) that are rougher than some gangbangs. How then can I not call those gangbangs vanilla? I literally fell asleep watching a certain No Limits gangbang despite being a big fan of the performer in that movie. To me that gangbang was the very definition of vanilla: soft and generic. Of course I'm not arguing that gangbangs such as that one are objectively vanilla, or that my definition of vanilla is objective and should be considered normative by other viewers. I do not find it "silly" that other viewers might define vanilla or apply the label differently than me.
^ I can't speak for Dutchgangbangboys, but I also had a problem with the HGB and BGB sites, not because I thought the girls didn't enjoy it, but because I knew they did enjoy it, but were forced to pretend that they didn't. And I'm not alone. I've seen a few of the girls who performed for those sites say in interviews later that they very much enjoyed the gangbangs, but were a bit cheesed that they had to keep saying "no, ow, stop, it hurts" when really what they wanted to be saying was "fuck yes this feels so good". In other words, they would have been more happy to perform the identical gangbang, just as rough, and just be allowed to enjoy it, without the pretending. That was always my problem with the site. These girls who had done gangbangs in other places, and rough sex scenes by the dozen, were now supposed to not like doing the same things they do all the time? It just wasn't believable to me. [edit: removed "in pain" since that's a complicated term] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 12/22/2014 12:33:27 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 12:41PM
^That's a reasonable criticism, though not one that I share. Though this is less true of hgb, a great number of bgb scenes were rape scenarios. If a performer goes to film a rape scenario, what does she expect? BGB was basically a bondage and rape fetish fantasy site. Performers complaining about having had to say "no" makes about as much sense as them complaining that they had to be tied up, at least in my opinion.
^^What kilbill said. The whole "role play" thing just doesn't work for me. I also don't like the heavy humiliation. Just toss them around like rag dolls and fuck the shit out of them. Skip all the bullshit.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 3:22PM
^The thing is that Kink is synonymous with BDSM fetish. Hogtied came fist and then the other sites. Peter Ackworth is turning his back on what Kink stood for. I happen to love Legal Porno's gangbangs (and LP's content in general) even though those scenes aren't particularly rough, so it's not that I demand that all gangbangs be extreme. However, for Kink to mainstream their gangbang style is intolerable to me because it involves a betrayal of what Kink has always stood for and been about.
Wow, way to misinterpret what I said! I said "where girls are an active element that enjoy it" I am sure that a lot of the girls enjoy their gb's on kink and I went out of my way to state that I was aware everything was consensual just to underline this. I do not like watching (roleplayed) rape, torture or things of the like. I dislike humiliation and watching fear and/or pain and I don't care whether it is acted or not. I dislike it in mainstream movies as well... It just makes me feel bad. What I like is a gangbang where a girl is allowed to initiate sexual acts and show her enjoyment on screen and thus is "an active element that enjoys it."Yes. As far as I am concerned she is or at least she caters to that crowd. I am not part of that crowd though and I should be allowed to say that just as much as you are allowed to say the opposite. If you enjoy/produce movies that cater to the humiliation of women or that sexualizes rape fantasies then that is about as mysogonistic an act as I can imagine. I wouldn't hold it against anyone that they enjoy such a thing (as long as it consensual) but it is not for me.You really are looking for things I never said.Again, this is getting boring, that is not what I said. However, you do agree with me that it is the intend to show us a girl who dislikes what goes on in a lot of those scenes right? I remember a scene where a tied up girl is tossed sideways into a bathtube and we the viewers were given the impression she feared drowning. I won't get turned on by that ever. I switched it off and figured that it wasn't for me. I passed no judgement over who made it. But I don't think there is any denying that scenes such as those are never filmed to show a happy woman having sex.Who knows? She might have been. I am gonna skip over the rest of your post as I am pretty sure that when you have a short think about it you will see that I never disagreed with you. I cannot fathom anyone ever finding 1 girl getting fucked by a group of men "vanilla" and if you do then your definition of vanilla is so gar removed from mine that we will never see eye to eye on itand, which is basically why I literally said, "a huge indicator of why I never liked the bound/hardcore gangbang." And I misquoted you this morning but you actually called it "mainstream vanilla" and I would think that a girl getting fucked on screen by a group of guys including anal and dp will never ever be "mainstream vanilla". If you like those HGB of old then that is no skin off my nose, not at all. I just welcome scenes without the whole torture porn rapey shit and if that is what they will bring me then fine by me. Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/22/2014 5:32:17 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 5:29PM
So far so good.Merriam Webster's online dictionary defines misogyny as "a hatred of women." While I strongly disagree with your crazy claim that Princess Donna hates women, I haven't argued that you should not be "allowed to say that just as much as [I am allowed] to say the opposite" and don't intend to do so. You go on to give an example of an allegedly misogynistic scene and claim that you passed no judgement on the makers of said scene. Is calling someone a misogynist not a judgement? I will imitate your example and skip over the rest of what you wrote.
^The reason I skipped over a large part of your reply was because of the misunderstanding we seemed to have where you implied that I said the girls in those scenes did not enjoy them which I never did. I could have addressed it a fifth time but it wouldn't have made much of a difference. You however are now skipping over what I hoped would be a reasonable discussion in order to play a semantics game. A bad one at that as that is only partly what the definition of mysogony is. It is also according to many dictionaries "the misteatment of women", something that is clearly sexualized in these scenes. I resent the remark that I make a "crazy" claim, and am pretty offended that you would make such a personal attack and would hope that you would see that any director that uses rape as a sexual fantasy is indeed catering to mysogonistic sentiment. If calling (roleplayed) mysogony mysogony is a judgement then I am at a loss what else you would want me to call it... Any suggestions? Again, let me be absolutely 100% clear (you are pretty easily offended for someone with such a high tollerance when it comes to other things, by the way) I am not passing judgement on people liking such scenes and I am aware of the fact that these are fantasies that are played out, but they are not for me. Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/22/2014 5:48:36 PM Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/22/2014 5:50:01 PM
It is you who are slinging personal attacks by calling Princess Donna a misogynist. When you talk like that, expect retaliation. I would insult you at this point, but that just wouldn't be right.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 22 2014 : 7:01PM
^^I quoted Webster's definition of misogyny word for word. Here is the Oxford definition: "Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women." Dictionary.com "Hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, or prejudice against women." The Online Etymology Dictionary: "1650s, from Modern Latin misogynia, from Greek misogynia, from misogynes 'woman-hater,' from miso- (see miso-) + gyne 'woman.'" By calling Princess Donna a misogynist, you are quite literally claiming that she hates women. That's not my subjective interpretation, that's what the word means. I completely respect the fact that rough porn is not to your liking.
^Misogyny is mislabeling an industry which is mainly populated by women. In the adult film industry women are given opportunities that other industries normally wouldn't allow. Most higher-ups and CEOs are usually occupied by men in major corporations or high level positions. Princess Donna's directorial duties are a perfect example of women being in control in the adult film industry. Women are able to branch out to entrepreneurial endeavors inside or outside the industry expanding their brands. Princess Donna's thorough interviews reveal that it's just a fantasy perpetrated by skilled performers who know their craft. Grouping together a "crowd" of fans as misogynists regarding a specific fetish is like calling people who are into foot fetishes "unclean" or "dirty".
I don't think the implication is that Princess Donna is a misogynist. She is a capitalist, making her money off misogyny. It serves a broad audience, among whom belong the misogynists. While some here are taking a step back before judgement, I do not. I judge you, and I judge the group you place yourself among. Others make this judgement too, when they look upon suffering, play or not, and find contempt instead of arousal. You do not, and can not defend it even with every definition in the dictionary. Look around at your peers and you will find the worst of humanity, people gratifying themselves on violence and pain. The only good Donna has brought is keeping would-be rapists off the street and deflated in a dark basement by themselves, away from society. Kudos owed to her. Stay fucking home.
Wow, shit hit the fan I see. I guess I was wrong calling rape fantasy mysogony... Either that or the truth just hurts just a bit too much and it is easier to attack the poster who struck a little bit too close to home for your comfort. I suppose it is easier to play semantic games and just quote those definitions that leave out the specific definition I refered to, I also suppose it hurts to see that I said that I think that Princess Donna makes her money off of mysogony and you can get get your panties all in a bunch over that instead of wondering why you get your dick hard seeing someone (acting like she) got raped. It is true Donna is empowered and took control of that, it is still making money through mysogony though. I will bow out and leave this part of the topic before more false accusations start flying my way.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 23 2014 : 12:55PM
Except that Dutchgangbangboys accused her of misogyny.This is a nitpick, but Peter Ackworth is Kink's capitalist, not Princess Donna or any of the directors.Actually, the point of websites like Bound Gangbangs and Public Disgrace was to fulfill the BDSM fantasies of its performers. Sometimes they succeeded, other times they failed, but neither BGB nor PD was ever aimed at commodifying the hatred of women.Yes, but that some viewers of Princess Donna's work are misogynists doesn't make the work itself nor the intentions behind it misogynistic.That is your right.You can have contempt for or be aroused by anything that you want, but are you assuming that the subjects of Princess Donna's scenes were suffering? What about killbillvol69's earlier comment? What about those who are aroused by being humiliated or experiencing pain?Huh? I defined misogyny to a user who seems to be in denial about what the word actually means.James Deen once said that he likes having rough sex with women who like rough sex. Well, I like being dominated by the right person or people at the right time in the right situation. So does Princess Donna. When I watch a BDSM scene, I am watching someone who purports to take pleasure in being a submissive fulfill her or his fantasy. I do not think that doing so places me among the worst of humanity, but you are welcome to your opinion.Princess Donna has done good for me and others with similar tastes by directing and sometimes participating in content that we've enjoyed. Your claim that "would-be rapists" enjoy Princess Donna's work is baseless.
I know I said I'd bow out but I am not going to sit around reading lies and half truths about what I wrote.No, you ASKED me if I thought she was and I answered "yes", I then added "or at least she caters to that crowd" subtle change but big difference. Then again judging from your general reactions and taste subtly isn't your thing anyway.Yeah, for her it is just charity work. What a load of nonsense. No one goes into the porn industry if it wouldn't be for the money.Sure they did! Just like all the other make a wish foundations in this world. I guess that is why so many actresses stoppe working after shooting for them. All wishes finally were granted.So how many times do I have to say that your definition is partial? You do know others can just read what I wrote right? You might ignore it but that only tells me you must be in denial. Ignore this: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogynist I, once again, won't judge others but it is not for me.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 23 2014 : 5:16PM
^^Okay then, so Princess Donna either hates women or she caters to people who do. Is that more accurate? Princess Donna was an employee. She was never a Jules Jordan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at no point did Princess Donna own or co-own Kink. Therefore, Ackworth is the capitalist, not Donna. Why are you responding to this? I wrote of BGB and PD: Sometimes they succeeded, other times they failed. Now, out of 422 scenes - the total number of PD's scenes + BGB's scenes - did "so many actresses" really retire after shooting for one site or the other? I do not agree that the definitions I provided were partial. They were not my definitions. I am not a linguist. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/misogyny http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=misogyny I completely respect the fact that rough porn is not to your liking.
^No, it os not "more accurate" and this is getting tiresome. Either you have very poor reading skills or you are just not willing to see my point. Princes Donna caters to people who get off on the mistreatment and/or abuse of women. That is why they have to act like they don't like it. That is why there are rape fantasies involved, etc. I was really clear about this and it really seems impossible that you did not get this. Now, about that capitalism. Employees can be capitalists and often are (I know I am.) I know Spielberg is, and Kubrick was, and J. J. Abrams. None of them own a film company though.... Great list of links, however I never said I disagreed with that meaning of the word. I said it was a partial definition and not the complete one. You can disagree that it is partial all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it is. Playing semantics games is usually the last resort of people losing discussions. So you can feign all the outrage you want, not my problem. Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/24/2014 2:09:06 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 24 2014 : 2:57AM
^It is pointless to argue further about the definition of misogyny. Webster and Oxford were proof enough that I was was correct about the definition, never mind the two other links that I provided. Furthermore, as is obvious from killbillvol69's comment, scenes directed by Princess Donna are aimed at giving the impression that performers are mistreated, not at actually mistreating them. This is made clear enough in the interview before each scene. If the performer takes pleasure in being manhandled, is she actually being mistreated? I say no, but perhaps you disagree and that's fine. You do realize that Spielberg and J.J. Abrams also produce films and television shows, right? Of course they are capitalists. I don't know if Kubrick did the same. While I do find your unnecessarily inflammatory assessment of Princess Donna to be both distasteful and unwarranted, I am not outraged, nor am I feigning outrage. There are no exclamation marks or all capital letters or angry boldface in my comments. I did not engage in a "game" over semantics.If you think that Webster provided an incomplete definition, take it up with them. For the term Racism, two definitions are provided by Webster. For the term Sexism, two definitions are provided by Webster. For the term misogyny, Webster provided only one definition. The same is true of the subsequent three links. I have only restated the definition provided by Webster, Oxford, etc.
I did defend it and will always defend a right to express oneself through any avenue of art. Who is suffering Rhodium? No one, that is the truth. The only people suffering are those who can't handle it or correlate it to real life atrocities that have nothing to do with scripted porn. Why don't you pick on the REAL rapists rather than attack someone who probably treats women better than you do. Grouping together people over something you don't seem to understand stems from a very scary mindset that I would almost expect someone (like you) to have that attacks art. What peers do you speak of? When I enjoy adult entertainment I do it alone in privacy not with a group of "misogynists". Again true misogyny has nothing to do with a camera crew, performers, and a healthy acting environment. The likes of that mindset belong to people like you Rhodium. Attacking something you don't understand and most likely fear. With fear comes a blatant form of idiocy. It's not that HARD to tell between fantasy and reality. When I think of Misogyny I think of oppressive religions, male dominated job markets filled with sexual harassment which I've seen with my own eyes, and forced marriages. Not a website that allows people to express their deepest fantasies. That being said I can't wait for today's update for Hardcore Gangbang! I hope it's the petite in peril Tegan Tate... Edited by - Mutantmo on 12/24/2014 1:46:56 PM Edited by - Mutantmo on 12/24/2014 2:01:32 PM Edited by - Mutantmo on 12/24/2014 2:03:16 PM
Gladly! The reason I am stating you are feigning outrage is very easy, you dirtectly ask me whether I believe something is the case. I say I do but after a little back and forth it turns out that apparently I do not subscribe to your definition of it and believe it to be only partial. This apparently is so over your head that even if I show you a dictionary link that upholds the point that I am making you discard it and harken back to the definitiions that only seem to put you in the right and you continue to use that definition to further your argument while you already perfectly well now that I have not had that definition in mind when discussing it. So either you are just plain obtuse or you don't want to have a fair discussion. "I don't like all citrus fruits, because I am not fond of limes." " Well my greengrocer doesn't sell limes, why do you hate oranges?" "I don't hate oranges, I dislike limes." "My greengrocer has no limes!!!!!!" The part about capitalism and apparently Princess Donna's charitative work in the fantasy fulfilment department I' just let that stand unanswered because it is apparent that you are not looking for a fair discussion on the subject. I will only ask you to think about why you think it is weird that I find the scenes in HGB, PD and BGB to portray the mistreatment of women when in fact the interview before hand and afterwards go out of their way to make sure that people understand it is roleplaying. Enjoy those scenes all you want, I again welcome movies where I don't have to get my dick hard looking at rape and my wife enjoys that a lot better as well.
[Link]
Ronald Deactivated User
544 Posts 5/05
Posted - Dec 25 2014 : 10:52AM
Adrianas performance 4 stars, but camera angles lighting poor 1 stars for that, some of the guys would not shut the fuck up, seriously I want to hear her not you..arrrrghhhh, buy it for Adriana, there is about 1 minute of good footage of her taking DV, its worth it for that
Little Puck Interview
Posted - Dec 15 2014 : 2:25PM
